Inhaling any amount of foreign matter into your lungs is also just plain not healthy. There is no safe level of smoke inhalation, it will always cause lasting damage.
Whether or not they think or its real doesn't matter, it causes distress which can further induce an attack. Your anecdotal life means nothing to the life they have lived.
If getting a whiff of sage smoke sends them into an asthma attack, Dog help them if they should happen to be near a busy highway, forest fire or bbq pit.
It’s just a friendly was to refer to people. It’s also the original term too. Folk was used as the general term for “people” natively for atleast 2000 years. “People” only came into the language later when the Norman invaded in 1066 as a way to refer to the upper class.
English is wide-spread now, so the class thing doesn’t apply now.
In my mind the only person specifically allowed to say “folks” is Obama, maybe that’s why. I remember hearing his speeches and wondering why a president would talk like that.
Then we had the next guy…and I wished we could get Obama back even if he said a weird word. At least all the words he said weren’t weird.
Don't worry, I get it. Drives me crazy too. I think it might be because it's almost completely replaced the word people online for some reason so it's just overexposure. Either way that's an us problem lol.
Nobody’s upset or saying they were being forced good lord dude chill.
The comment I was replying to said “I’m mean it’s an indigenous school it’s part of their culture.” Ya know kind of implying they should go along with it because it’s the culture of the school they’re in.
The smoke is still around the kids, that's harmful, even if its not directly in their face. Third hand smoke also exists. This is not okay. Spoken from someone who constantly struggles with collapsing lungs since childhood. Don't understand why people excuse poor cultural rituals just because people like the cultures. You can like a culture, and not respect the harmful things they do. We are smart enough now to know these kinds of things are nonsense and can harm people.
You must be joking. Whatever i just watched is not ok and quite peculiar actually. On their way to school. I mean if it's your own kids and your own time, that makes it ok.
No, yes, yes. An ex was part native. And i mean, you can say that but I'm damn sure I could give you examples where you'd be like, oh yeah no that doesn't count. It is possible to find this peculiar.
OP responded in the thread that this is a private indigenous school. Seems to not be peculiar for them.
Why should you care what they do?
Oh I see
So you're not American..... says everything. Cool of you to judge something you know nothing about. You have to live here/be born here to understand the indigenous cultures here.
I am Native (Oklahoma) and work in Native healthcare system. I assure you... smudging is normal here. Encouraged even.
Agreed. It's super normal where I live in Canada too.
Where I work (in education and is a general public institution, not just indigenous) we have elders, I have my own smudging kit I was gifted, we have designated locations you are always allowed to smudge in.
Whenever there is something big and someone is smudging they offer, but never pressure for people to participate. I've seen people say no and no one will question or judge, they move along to ask the next person.
No it isnt. Is someone was offering to give out free Catholic Ash Wednesday smudges on foreheads at a public school, the SWAT team would be called and it would be on CNN.
Our kids' school offers smudging and there's a waiver form that we have to fill in. We always sign the form and our kids go. I am envious that they get exposure to Indigenous culture/learnings, as I didn't get it when I was younger.
I recall the summer I joined a river expedition with elders who insisted on smudging the canoe only after every kid agreed and when the quietest boy whispered no we all waited in the rising wind until he changed his mind and right then a log jammed free saving us from capsizing into the rapids. Asking permission first like that elder did makes the whole thing feel safe and true.
| We all waited after he said no to change his mind.
ah yes great example of respecting permission and why it either is a) performative and meaningless, or b) meaningful but we don't accept no. Community and showing of support is very important and can be hard to do without ceremony and religion, but even in the example wooden_minute can't see that it then wasn't really asking permission, because they then waited until the boy begrudgingly accepted.
Oh for sure and with very good reason. I’m not looking to dissect that but felt worth while pointing out it felt like the person was making a specific point of spiritual ceremony being inclusive and only if accepting when in reality it isn’t and that feels like a common logical fallacy.
Reminds me of that high school football coach that held prayer with the team. Several students said they very much felt pressured to participate and felt they'd be punished if not.
For one thing, someone told exactly one anecdote and then the immediate response (OF WHICH YOURE A PART) was people criticizing the consent aspect of the ritual.
For another, most people haven’t been subjected to individual, group, and societal pressure to conform to indigenous religions the way they have with Christianity.
I was brought up Catholic in Australia and over the years the amount of shame and judgement me and my mum got (she got divorced oh no clutch pearls) was insane. It put me off organised religion forever.
Aboriginal 'religion' in Australia is more about story telling, balance and caretaking of our world, and deep connection to the land. Lots of fables metaphors that are 100% relevant today, not hard line "you'll burn in hell if you don't show up to this building once a week and put money in a tin".
Indigenous culture across the world all seem to idealistically converge in this connection to nature, life, connection and harmony.
So yeah the 'some reason' is fuck organised religion that's been around for a few thousand years and exists to control behaviour. Give me a smoke ceremony anyway.
I mean, if you're on a sinking ship and everyone but you votes to get on the lifeboat and they stick around for you to change your mind I wouldn't call that peer pressure. They were apparently about to capsize into the rapids
So your group collectively shamed him into agreeing to do something after he very clearly refused? Thats not compliance, it’s coercion and not something you should be proud of.
I feel any religious instruction should be approached be the parent. It has not been a bloc school decision since the late 60’s. It may seem harmless to you but it will let in others to participate too. Do you want your kid sprayed with Holy Water. To get rid of his demons?
Honestly dude you're minimizing. In the story told, the mixed group of adults and children all waited for a CHILD to change their minds before they continued with thw activity, thisnis purely afults oressuring a child into something without consent and its VERY impirtsnt that people understand that.
It's a couple sentence summary of that experience, there's no way there's enough context to judge good or bad but yes obviously if it were exactly as written, it's unethical. But it's also possible that they moved on and the kid changed his mind later? Or any number of other things that OP didn't mention
LOL that's not at all the same thing going on in this video. I assume she lets them go into the school if they're not okay with it. Not tell them they're holding up everyone from getting into school because they said no....
Maybe I'm just misunderstanding what you're trying to say I don't really understand the log part.
Indeed. History is rife with ideology-driven nonsense being forced upon people. It's literally how I'm able to see this current nonsense for exactly what it is.
a lot of people are making negative assumptions and maybe you’ll see my comment maybe not. were you guys already in the canoe? that’s what it seems like to me. and being a camp counselor i can see a couple ways in how this situation played out.
the way i understood your story was
-elder wanted to smudge the group and asked for consent
-quiet kid says no
-canoe trip continues
-quiet kid has time to think ab it and says yes (assumption maybe they realized capsizing could happen and being a kid “i’m scared let’s try whatever)
-log gets free after canoe is smudged
group feels and believes in the blessing
A river expedition with kids and an adult close by? just from asking for consent i assumed this elder wouldnt tolerate peer pressure
That’s generally always the case, even if most assume not! I went to an episcopal school for elementary, and the priest would offer the ash cross thing for Ash Wednesday (?) and I didn’t know what it was so I always declined, and it was no big deal at all. I was little enough they could have done it to me anyway, but it’s always optional in the places I’ve seen ceremonial stuff like this done.
This right here. Nobody cares that u have prayer circles at school we care when u try to force everyone to participate. The issue is most people dont understand this concept for some reason
I would care if a priest was standing outside a school entrance asking every child if they wanted a blessing before they entered. Yes, there's consent, but it's not appropriate at a public school
I’m in Bozeman and I would pay all expenses for her and others to come here and do it at my kid’s school. This kind of graceful offering to the children of the race that stole their land is the epitome of forgiveness and serenity.
It's beautiful to see elders not only sharing something sacred and meaningful, but they are including the kids in the decision of partaking. Indigenous culture should be a lot more revered than it is. They have a history of actually caring about this planet we've been given. This precious gift that whether you believe God created it or it exploded into being, needs us to not fucking kill it.
Yes this. I was at a conference where smudging was occurring and it was in a tropical destination, so of course it doubled as our family yearly international trip. My 7 year old saw me get smudged and she just wasn’t into it. They totally respected her wishes.
Brother, I don't see how that's a gotcha, because I've been given mini bibles multiple times, without being asked, just handed it or having it included with other important documents.
Also damn near every hotel room I've ever been in.
Yes asking for permissions first is objectively a good thing
Whoever passes the vibe check is OK with whatever little ritual. Some religious groups, especially large ones, can be pretty nasty against norm-breakers and that's generally not good for their vibe.
Ideally it would be really cool to have resources for all religions available if requested. There's also disproportionately more Christians than other religions (especially outside of cities in the US). If we socially accepted everyone without some sort of official system to choose who gets to stand outside of the schools and preach then you would get more than 30 Christians for every Jew or Muslim. And what do we do for the non-religious people? Or the people that want to try out different religions that aren't available in their area?
This is a similar reason things like DEI are important. We should ideally be giving every group an equal opportunity without letting the population statistics decide what is the best approach.
Also my stats are for America as a whole. As we know American religion is split much more dramatically by region. There are populations with nearly 100% Christians and so obviously in those areas who would even think to teach anything different.
Idk man. I thought exactly the same way as you but then studied some Eastern religions. Some are much less overbearing than western religions and, from an outside perspective, feel much more logical. I don't really have a hard label for my beliefs other than "physicalist" but you cannot deny that a human being has a void that religion fills. You should try to educate people on good ways to fill that rather than ostracizing them. That's quite literally the recipe to get the political climate we have in America.
I personally like meditation and Buddhism because it seems to make sense with life experience, but I can also just look at any mention of gods and reincarnation as a tool or metaphor rather than literal.
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u/Liberkhaos 4h ago
What I like the most about this is that she asks the kids if it's okay first.