I'm rewatching for the first time in years (As I type this, I just finished S2 11: Getting Closer), and it feels so weird how the show tries to get me to dislike Caroline in season 2. Once the idea of Caroline coming back to her original body starts getting brought up, it's met with understandable friction from Echo, but S2 E10: The Attic and S2 E11: Getting Closer is where it sort of took me out of the show. Before I go any further, I just want to make it clear that Caroline is not my favorite character and I'm not looking to defend her. This is also not about me trying to make any character as morally superior or inferior to anyone else. I think the fact that nobody is a saint and everyone is a sinner, along with how certain characters confront that fact, is one of the most compelling aspects of the show. This is me just trying to get a tonal thumb out of my eye. Of course, major spoilers for seasons 1 and 2 ahead.

Back on topic, I'm back at the reveal of who the head of Rossum is after Caroline's attack on the Rossum building in Tuscon. So far what I know of Caroline at this point is that she was an animal activist who became dedicated to combating and taking down Rossum after the death of her boyfriend, Leo. She's also killed Rossum employees, she used Bennett in her failed attempt to take down the Rossum building in Tuscon, and accepted the deal to become a doll. Considering all of this, it's so weird that the show tries to get me to dislike Caroline and it just doesn't gel with me. Caroline, who is basically guilty of being as morally compromised as almost any other main cast member and wanting to enact the overarching goal of the show, is treated like this oh so awful presence who is worse than almost anyone else. Sure, an argument can be made that Caroline is a terrible person for leaving Bennett behind... until it's revealed that she left Bennett behind to get herself captured by Rossum so that Bennett could survive and/or go unpunished. Hell, as I'm typing this, I realize she probably does this to avoid a repeat of Leo: she doesn't want Bennett to get hurt (worse) or die at Rossum's hands because of her war against them. That leaves wanting to take down Rossum, killing Rossum employees, and accepting the deal into the Dollhouse. All things almost any other main cast member is guilty of before S2 E12: The Hollow Men.

To get to the bottom line and the point of the entire post: it just feels so off-putting that the show wants me to dislike Caroline for doing and being things that almost any given character in the main cast has also done and been, if not worse. Given that this disdain comes mostly from Echo, I could understand when it was a fear of effectively dying when Caroline re-entered her own body and how the mere mention of Caroline inevitably brings friction against Echo being a real person. But the way the show tries to get me to outright hate her, or at least regard her as one of the worst among the main cast, is... no man. Just... no. At least Bennett never knew Caroline left her behind to save her. “I will hold the bitch down”? Why is Caroline a bitch to Echo? Even DeWitt acknowledges that Caroline isn't evil, albeit in a very backhanded way to refer to her as an idealist.

Maybe it has been asked before, but which of the produced pilots did you like better? I was a huge fan of the original pilot. I think if they had gone with that episode first and delved right into the main arc, it might have eventually found a bigger audience. I like how it introduces all the moral questions early on and how it is more of an ensemble piece where every character gets to shine. Loved the scene where Echo says "I'm not nobody" and shoots Ballard.

The aired pilot isn't really as good at establishing all the moral questions and introducing the characters, because so much time is used for building up the case of the week, though it does give a better sense of the show's early episode-of-the-week format and has a firmer grasp on Echo's personality of the week. I think it also wasn't helpful to postpone the Victor reveal, as Enver Gjokaj had already been featured in all the promo shoots as a doll.

I know Joss planned from the get-go to have different stand-alone episodes for the show with different genres, but I think the show's more of an ethical thriller and that's why the start initially wasn't as enticing, because it simply wasn't cut out to be just a personality-of-the-week format.

What the actual fuck is this show?

Like... how did this get signed off? Buffy and angel were so successful they just said "yep okay we trust you!"

5 episodes in and i have so many questions and thoughts and none of them good tbh

(Love the actress but wow)

Just started and I LOVE this show, on episode 3 and I've seen other people do this on other subs so I thought it would be fun!

Dollhouse was set in 2010.

Epitaph is set 10 years later where an apocalypse is happening.

In 2020.

The hindsight in 2026 is really something!

How come Echo didn’t leave the dollhouse at the end of the series? Just so she could stay who she was and not become Caroline again?

I bought the series on DVD and am doing a rewatch. In the episode ‘Echoes,’ when Topher says Agent Victor is so lofty, DeWitt says I have a good story to tell about him. And then it goes on with Topher saying something else and then the next scene.

This is the first time I’ve caught the fact that she really does have a good story to tell about him and we find out in a future episode!

I was thinking about this scene yesterday because it's about Earth Day, so I rewatched it. I always find it hilarious that when Ballard is asked "you know, Earth Day was last week?" he responds, "I haven't been." But I don't actually get the meaning if there is one. Is it supposed to mean he hasn't been to Earth? Is the joke obvious and I'm just dumb? Or does it not make any sense

So I finished the show today and I’m sure it’s been discussed but I genuinely don’t understand why Topher did what he did. He could have definitely made a mechanism to trigger the bomb from afar. And so one might think that he wanted to die because he had literally gone mad with guilt, but why did no one stop him? Adele was much more responsible for the plague that Topher was.

And why did he go “Huh!” when looking at the wall with the pictures right before he blew up?

Seriously what the hell was that all about?! Echo and Boyd dynamic is one of the things that kept me watching, then season two came along with that absurd reveal!!

This show is crazy but not that stupid! Did I miss something important from previous episodes or any hints about this? Pls tell me I’m lost here 😭

What they did to Boyd arc left such a bad Taste in my mouth and turned me off this show. this suck 😱

So I recently decided to buy the show on Bluray after not having watched it for ages, and while I was making some backups of the discs I found a video on one of them that doesn't seem to be accessible through the normal menus on disc 3. It's a 2-minute scene where Franz and Amy wake up Joss Whedon from a pod, he asks "it's been 5 years already?" and there's some more back and forth about how surprised everyone is that Dollhouse got a second season before he walks out and the other two call him a douche. Anybody know what this is? I'm assuming this is something that other people already know about, but some quick searching for "Dollhouse hidden file" didn't seem to turn anything up. I uploaded it to Vimeo here.

Rewatching Dollhouse after a good 10 or so years of having watched it last.

It's a shame the show never reached the heights of Buffy and Angel or the cult following of Firefly.

Do I have the complete collection? Am I missing anything, specifically on the comic book side?

• Echo dealing with the ethical ramifications of having a personality in her that doesn't want to be there (I'm thinking of Adelle's friend who gracefully bookended her life, but is kind of "kept alive" in Echo, not unlike the Attic) and seeing that personality try to fight it's way out

• Whatever inevitable crisis would lead to Adelle's imprint being put into a doll, and the chaos that would ensue

• Alpha's story arc, and how he got better.

• A meeting of the Dollhouse directors, where they all discuss their different philosophies on how to run it.

• The little girl, Susan (who Echo read to as a grownup, healed version of herself) deciding to sign a contract at the Dollhouse when she turned 18, and Echo not having it.

• Someone (probably Victor) dealing with "imprint addiction." Know anything, any time? Be smarter, clearer, better, just pop in a flash drive? Serious potential for abusing that like a drug.

Anybody got any others?

Took me years but I finally watched the unaired pilot. And was happy to see Ashley Johnson from The Last of Us game in a small cameo.

Would have loved to see her and Eliza Dushku in a full episode together!

Unaired pilot: https://archive.org/details/dollhouse-s-01-e-00-echo-original-unaired-pilot?utm_source=chatgpt.com

Hi all!

I’m rewatching Dollhouse and Severance, looking for parallels, common themes and so on.

I was just wondering if anyone had come across any research: articles, media on Dichen Lachman being cast in both and if it is related or what it was like to work in both or either.

Thanks all!!

Legit have to return the library copy today I've had for almost 2 months and today I found this for $5!

I know it's a older show but I'm just getting into it. And I have loved it, honestly one of the best shows I've ever watched. I love the story, the characters, hell even just the look of it.

I can’t put my finger on it but I keep thinking of Dollhouse when I watch Severance. I’m not just talkjng about actress Dichen Lachman who is in both. Has anyone else had this feeling at all?

Found a dead link on some old forum. Hoping someone here has it saved.

His impressions are so good!! He did such a good job imitating Reed Diamond in Briar Rose that I was convinced Diamond must have dubbed for him. And he was spot on as Topher in The Left Hand. Truly an incredible talent!

I'm so glad to stumble across this subreddit and see people still post about this show. I watched it for the first time in high school (2010) and it immediately became so formative to my personal philosophy. I've always been fascinated by personality. What shapes us? Who do we become as a result of our experiences and our environment? Can we change? What are we actually capable of? That's why I write so much alternate universe fiction and why I've been so fascinated with stories like Fringe and Orphan Black. I watched both of those shows later and it kills me how many people either haven't heard of Dollhouse or who dismiss it while missing the point, not realizing Dollhouse walked so they could run. Way too many people didn't realize that the show wasn't an endorsement of the Dollhouse. "It's terrible that these women are being exploited." Yeah yep you just got the point. That's why they worked so hard to blow it up. Lack of media literacy indeed. I wish it had been given more time to really flesh out its ideas and get into a stride, but I'm very grateful for the 2 seasons and the comics that we got.

The more I watch this show, though, the more I think of things I would do differently. I think I'd put Paul and Mellie together. I'd start with putting Paul with Echo then have him realize that she's not this fairy tale damsel in distress he built up in his head, and is in fact a real person. She's not going to revert into Caroline and be in love with him. She doesn't need him like that. (Maybe he just gives me Riley BTVS energy idk lmao.) So slowly he realizes he's in love with the girl next door, literally, who does actually need his help as she comes back to herself and he can help her find her daughter.

So where does this leave Echo? With Dr. Saunders/Whiskey. Their goals align as they've both been abused and mistreated by this system and have no clear idea of who they are. Both scarred by it, both physically and psychologically. I would've loved a plotline about Saunders struggling with the ethics of being technically in a position of power over Echo while Echo has to remind her that she is sentient and if anything is an equal as she works to bring these people down. Then Saunders could figure out that she's an active too and it would play out similarly to the way they handled it with Paul except way less condescending (IMO). Echo and Saunders could help each other through that and there could be a whole plotline where Saunders starts slipping but doesn't want to be reimprinted because she doesn't want to lose who she is, which Echo would understand. It could be contrasted with a plotline where Ballard is worried about falling for Mellie, who he isn't seeing as a real person with free will but who he grows to care about as he helps her find her real memories. Mellie would need to be able to be who she was before to be empowered, but Saunders and Echo need to get to be who they are now to be empowered.

I don't have much more that I need that isn't already in the text though lol. I just wish we had more time to explore Alpha's character development as well as to spend more time with Topher and Bennett. I also for real think that Bennett had a huge crush on Caroline and that's why it hurt her so badly to be betrayed by her, so I would've loved to see that.

These are all just personal headcanons though, this is still one of my all-time favorite shows and I wish it got more love. What would you guys do differently in the show if you got a chance to rewrite anything?

I wanted to like this show but it seemed like no one thought it through. I wonder if I missed something or if it really made such little sense.

The show had some good moments. I thought the Topher/Whiskey dynamic was interesting (and it seemed there was backstory for Topher and the real Whiskey that never played out but would have been interesting). I liked Paul choosing Mellie at the end of season one and had no issue with Echo not being a full person the first season. But so much made no sense.

1. Caroline ends up not mattering? It seems she is absorbed into Echo and that’s it for Caroline? Caroline doesn’t really matter?

2. Caroline is all “well I signed a contract” in season one but a badass terrorist in season 2. Her scenes in season one make no sense given how she got to the dollhouse?

3. So many of these doll jobs make zero sense.

4. Echo/Caroline lands on everyone’s radar, from Paul to Alpha, mesmerizing them without knowing a thing about her other she’s hot?

5. Why keep Topher around when you can transfer his knowledge to a doll?

6. Boyd is not telegraphed as being evil at all.

7. They make a nice point in season one about something of the original person remaining and that’s why Paul frees Mellie but then nope nothing about the original person ends up mattering?

8. Why didn’t they fix whiskey’s scar and get back their top performer and put Saunders in the lowest performing doll? Or, if they were afraid alpha would target her again, fix the scars to avoid questions? They gave her fears so she wouldn’t leave. Why leave her scarred?

9. The psycho camping guy almost killed Echo…how did that help Alphas agenda?

10. The version of Paul echo downloads is crazy out of date.

The list goes on and on but as a bonus

1. If Boyd just wants a cure why didn’t he just ask for help? They already had two dolls that could retain multiple imprints so there must be a zillion people out there with similar ability. There were easier ways of making the vaccine…that never mattered but could have.

I’m not hating on the show. It had some cute moments and some clever moments but mostly it seems no one thought any of it through.

So we have Echo indicating she wants to complete her “engagement” with Joel Mynor. Cut to her as Rebecca, and they’re smiling and the music’s swelling and the zoom-in on the slow motion of their intertwining fingers… and the scene is coming across as wholesome… like “yay, this guy gets to relive his fantasy of his wife seeing their first house together”.

But… we’ve already established that Joel is a predator (in fact, Paul said exactly that to his face), so what is this framing at the end of the episode? What is the audience supposed to feel about this?