r/interestingasfuck • u/ThugLeeVoguee • 1d ago

The implosion of the Titan submarine (OceanGate) was so rapid that the pain wasn't even registered by the brain. They didn't feel anything at all. Utterly instantaneous.

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u/yeahright17 1d ago edited 1d ago

I've always thought the hate for the controller was pretty stupid. Using a preexisting controller to control the thing was fine. That's not why it failed.

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u/Teslapromt 1d ago

It is dumb. People who are making fun of it, even though it's just input controls, which can be anything, and Logitech controllers are generally decently reliable. It shouldn't be the only way of controlling the sub, but it can be one of them, but that's an issue of error prevention. People making fun of controller would be shocked to learn what US military (and other militaries) use on the regular to control machines of war.

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u/yeahright17 1d ago

Literally just commented to a different reply that the US military uses xbox controllers all the time.

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u/WingerRules 1d ago edited 1d ago

I guarantee somewhere on the market there are input devices designed for no fail situations.

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u/CricketPinata 1d ago

Most controller options are bespoke and expensive if you want one designed for a purpose. USB controllers are universal, easy to find well-made versions, and easily replaceable.

It is cheaper and more reliable to just use off-the-shelf USB controllers, than to have someone engineer one in a garage for you.

The Controller wasn't the issue, it was the hull and design of the sub.

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u/WingerRules 1d ago

He went with the cheap option because the entire design of the sub was cost cutting, they even used carbon fiber that was basically expired junk carbon fiber. I can't tell you how many gaming controllers I've had have faults and I've had to replace, but I basically stopped buying games on the PS5 because I'm on my 4th controller now on that system alone.

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u/CricketPinata 1d ago

Right, but using an off-the-shelf USB controller wasn't the failure point, or the concern. USB controllers are very common for controlling nautical equipment that doesn't suck.

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u/MikeW86 1d ago

It's a thing that does everything you need it to do and is designed to survive hundreds of thousands of cycles on all its inputs. You could easily keep 2 more backups on board if you felt paranoid. Of allllll the terrible design decisions this one was completely justified and had precisely zero influence on the failure.

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u/Busy_Phase8285 19h ago

Thing is, that controller was designed and manufactured to "playing video game" standards. If some component breaks, you can just get another one. It's simply an inconvenience. It was NOT designed and manufactured to "human-rated safety critical" standards. And they still used it as the only way to control the vehicle. If it craps out, then in the immortal words if Richard Pryor, "that's your ass".

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u/vemundveien 8h ago

and Logitech controllers are generally decently reliable

Honestly I would spring for an original Xbox controller at least. Logitech controllers are former Saitek controllers, and as someone who has owned several Saitek HOTAS controllers, reliability is not the reason for why I have owned so many.

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u/Horknut1 1d ago

I blame all my losses on the controller.

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u/yeahright17 1d ago

touche.

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u/Sitty_Shitty 1d ago

It's especially stupid because they use Xbox controllers on US submarines to operate the periscopes (digital photonics mast). There's plenty of dumb shit the guy was doing but the controller thing everyone keeps mentioning is just their own ignorance on display.

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u/Vienna_The_Aeronaut 1d ago

Its more "They weren't even willing to splurge for a high quality control or proper driving system, where else were they cutting costs?"

Of course the answer was "Everywhere."

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u/yeahright17 1d ago

What is a "proper driving system" for a little submarine? Of course cutting cost elsewhere was the issue it failed. But, for example, the Navy swapped out $40k controllers for $30 xbox controllers in submarines to control periscopes and unmanned submersibles and sailors couldn't be happier. There's no reason an off the shelf controller was inherently the wrong way to control the sub. (As I said in another response, it definitely should have been wired though).

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u/Blasphemy4kidz 1d ago

No but it goes to show what a cheap POS the owner was to not even bother getting a top notch controller. Instead he uses a used Logitech controller for $20.

Just like he skimped out on everything else, including the hull material.

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u/SuperSatanOverdrive 1d ago

Yup, the controller was absolutely not the problem.

The problem was cutting costs on the material for the hull

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u/mr-singularity 1d ago

Arguably the controller was probably one of better choices they made. Being market tested means empirical evidence unlike their theoretically possible hull design like you implied.

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u/topological_rabbit 1d ago

For me, it's the fact they were using a wireless controller. That's just some insane decisionmaking there.

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u/abigdickbat 1d ago

Not why it failed, but it’s also one of the cheapest controllers, like you couldn’t spend $80 on a Microsoft? A very easy-to-grasp example of the number of corners this guy was willing to cut.

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u/nonpuissant 1d ago

eh if it works it works. It was a dumb thing for people to get hung up on. It just got a lot of attention because it was easy clickbait for the masses. 

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u/abigdickbat 23h ago

“Eh if it works it works” is the kinda B minus mentality that doesn’t belong in an industry like deep submarines, as clearly displayed. If an extra $40 provides even an incremental increase in quality or redundancy, you pay it. The controller exposes that he likely got the cheaper bolts, the cheaper resin, the fewer welds, etc.

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u/astro65 22h ago

The thing is you're assuming an Xbox controller would work better for their setup without even knowing the computer system being used. We don't know if it was windows, Linux, Mac, or even some esp32/fpga setup to the motors. 

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u/nonpuissant 20h ago

The controller exposes that he likely got the cheaper bolts, the cheaper resin, the fewer welds, etc.  

Not really, that's just speculation and hindsight.  

There were plenty of warning signs about them cutting corners, but the controller choice wasn't one of them. 

If an extra $40 provides even an incremental increase in quality or redundancy, you pay it. 

Sure, if it does. But does it though? Do Microsoft controllers have some special built-in redundancy features they just never bothered to advertise? 

Redundancy in this case would be bringing an extra controller or two. Extra cables, batteries, having a back up method of control, etc.  Having a name brand controller doesn't make a lick of difference there. 

Same when it comes to "quality". If both controllers can reliably perform the needed functions within the parameters required then there is no material difference. 

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u/FatTim48 1d ago

Tell that to the guys who throw their controller when they lose a game

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u/pablothe 23h ago

People think sophisticated devices or industries use some magical different technology. Is also why you can sell "Military Grade" stuff to people.

They think the button on a spacecraft and their car will be some magically different things.

What people usually need is redundancy more than some magical material.

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u/marr 20h ago

That depends: Wired or Bluetooth?

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u/qtpss 1d ago

Could you see NASA using one on a space mission? Using a consumer off the shelf controller just speaks to a lack of greater concern about detail for the entire project.

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u/imlegos 1d ago

Admittedly, yes. A generic video game controller scheme is rather effective. You'd only need something more complex if there was other mechanisms aboard the thing (And that could just be handled by other controllers)

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u/DeusVultSaracen 1d ago

Exactly. It really shouldn't be surprising that a human interface device developed with millions of dollars in R&D over the course of decades—by competing tech giants like Sony, Microsoft, Logitech, Nintendo, and more—trumped any in-house solution a startup submarine company could devise.

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u/NameToUseOnReddit 1d ago

Just don't forget to disable the start button on the controller. Nobody needs someone to go and switch the controller settings in the middle of a mission.

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u/spoonybum 1d ago

Don’t the US military use Xbox controllers for drones and shit? I could be completely making that up but swear I’ve seen them being used in war videos.

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u/wpoot 1d ago

Pretty sure the Navy adapted Xbox controller schemes to some controls in submarines (maybe periscopes?) because of how familiar everyone is with them.

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u/yeahright17 1d ago

Could you see NASA using one on a space mission?

No. But the US military uses xbox controllers for a ton of different things because they're intuitive and functional.

Did using a cheap controller hint at a systematic issue with how the Titan was engineered? Sure. But there's no reason a game controller wouldn't be a fine controller for a submarine like the Titan. Granted, it definitely should have been wired.

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u/Captain_Futile 1d ago

US Navy uses XBox controllers with periscopes on Virginia class nuclear subs…

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u/qtpss 1d ago

To control video cameras on the periscope but not to drive the boat.

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u/da_Aresinger 1d ago

Yes. I can. Assuming the control scheme matches needs of the mission. Which I doubt is the case for most Space missions, because you can't just fly rockets like spaceships in a videogame.

Using of the shelf controlers whenever possible is OBJECTIVELY THE BEST CHOICE YOU CAN MAKE.

You only design your own shit when existing products aren't feasible.

Commercial game controllers are well tested, easily integrated, well supported and most importantly: 100% replaceable. Bring 3 or 4 PS/XBox controllers on your mission and you will never have a problem.