It is so secret that a lot of people in this world tend to consume music that were/are released by controversial artists. Whenever fans are questioned for this, they often explain that the separate the art from the artists meaning that while they are a fan of that artist's music, they do not support the controversial act of that artist. I had decided to make this post after I had seen a few fans of Bigbang not being happy with YG Entertainment (group's management company) only acknowledging G-dragon, Taeyang, and Daesung and not the entire original five line-up that includes T.O.P. and Seungri. While a lot of fans were sad that T.O.P. was not included during the group's 20th anniversary video that was posted on the group's main channel, a few fans had felt that Seungri should have been included too as despite his disgusting actions during the Burning Sun Scandal, he was a part of the group's journey till his departure in 2019. Another example I had seen was fans of Super Junior as the group was not included in Golden Disc's "Powerhouse 40" back in October of 2025 amongst other influential music acts on the list. While a few had admitted that the members had been involved in a lot of controversies in the past, they had felt that the group had still impacted K-pop and is extremely influential inside of the industry. Now, Super Junior is not blacklisted from the industry as they are still active and are honored inside of the K-pop industry. However, their controversies did give them a bad reputation amongst non-fans inside the K-pop community.

After seeing these examples, I want to know, does separating the art from the artist works for you or does it depend on the controversy that artist/act is in?

So I have seen many people who hate on idols who can't speak english.

They keep saying that it is the easiest language in the world and the most spoken in the entire world.

And I have a lot to say to that. (I am not asia but slovakian)

1. You have to learn a completely new alphabet. Like imagine you are used to just signs and now you have to learn a completely new alphabet.

2. Schools don't put much attention to it. While idols are in school, the school's don't put much attention for them to learn english. And don't even teach them basic english.

3. Idol training is brutal. Some may argue that companies may give them people who teach them english, but imagine you have to train which takes a lot of time and energy. Then have to study, and not only english, but many other things.

4. Most of these idols are 3rd gen and back then K-pop wasn't put on wetstern market. During 3rd gen the K-pop world wasn't much "Let's go to America, Let's go to europe." No they were stricly asia. That's why most 3rd gen idols speak mostly asian language. Idols in 4th and 5th gen speak more english because that's when K-pop started to become more global.

5. Also some may say "Then how come thsy speak chinese, japanese, thai, ..." and once again that's mostly 3rd gen idols. During 3rd gen K-pop was still in it's "Asia theme." When they focused more on the Asian market. That's why I think most idols speak mainly Asian languges.

6. By that meaning we should hate on normal people who can't speak english. People only hate on idols and don't realize that almost the entirety of Korea doesn't speak english properly. With more school than idols themseves.

7. Then why don't many people speak Mandarin. Mandarin is the second most spoken languge in the world. So by that almost everybody should speak mandarin. Most people don't. Why? Because it is hard, has a new alphabet, and you don't need it in work. Most 3rd gen idols didn't need it at work because companies didn't put much weight onto it.

It doesn't matter the reason. I think we should still not hate on idols who don't speak enlighs because they are just human.

Remember. For them english is hard. So don't hate on idols who can't speak english

I saw a comment on a Tuide post about how it's okay that they have not exploded in popularity cause they want to see rookies that are hungry for it. Added to that, I was thinking about the whole "Jihyo is an idol that very clearly loves her job" narrative and like, that can't be denied. Although she's far from the only one. I think it's very impressive after more than a decade to still have her energy and passion and she deserves her flowers for it!

But what are some idols in your opinion that are "hungry for it"? Rookies that want to prove themselves or seniors that clearly have a passion for the job.

One that immediately comes to mind for me is Yunah from ILLIT. She always gives 110% in every performance, her facial expressions and stage presence are always on point and she seems to really just love performing. I have never seen her half ass anything. She doesn't get as much attention as the other girls in ILLIT, but she def deserves it!

Does it happen to you ? For which group ?

It’s the 3rd time it happen to me. Thank to spotify recommandation, i listen to some new song, love the sound of it. Search the group, love other songs of theirs and then discover that the group is either disbanded or in an indefinite hiatus.

It’s so sad because I would love to have more music and discover the group but I stop myself as the group is not active anymore.

It happened first with Victon, then TAN and yesterday with Re:wind.

Edit : give me your favorite of the group and let’s share the love for those groups.

Mine : Victon - Mayday, TAN - Du du du, Re:wind - Little too late

From what I know, there are rarely any idols with more than 2 ethnic backgrounds. We have obvious abundace of 2 ethnicities where one parent is Korean and other is from a different country descent.

Somi comes in mind due to her having 3 different citizenships. Her Mother being Korean and her Father being Dutch-Canadian.

Alexander Lee from U-KISS. Born to a Korean Mother and a Macanese Father who is of mixed Chinese and Portuguese descent.

Jay Chang from One Pact. Jay might be one of the more rarer ones where he has 4 heritages, his Mom being a Filipino-Chinese and his Dad being an Irish-Hungarian.

HueningKai & his Sisters are another example. Born to a Korean Mom and an American Father of German descent.

These are the only ones I could find from my research. What y'all think? Are there any more who ya'll know of?

For me it's one of my favorite first full albums in Kpop, it brings me so much nostalgia for Y2K Pop and reminds me like a mix of Britney and the Spice Girls.

TLDR: It seems that sometimes just being funny can get you the attention and popularity a company never would have worked to give you otherwise.

For those who may not know: Hyoyeon, Yuri and Sooyoung from SNSD have debuted in a sub unit called HyoRiSoo, born completely out of a parody/ joke. Hyoyeon's yt channel ran a series called Fake Hyoyeon which is essentially just having her improvise a fake version of herself in the industry. Soon enough it lead to jokes about her, along with Yuri and Sooyoung, forming a sub unit that would "rival" the legendary snsd sub unit: TTS. They now play personas and create all this via improve. With jokes and gags like them being the dance line trying to "outsing" TTS which was all vocal line, them having celebrity disease, running elections to find the main vocal... This parody got so big and gained so much traction that it has become an entire series with guests, variety show appeareances and now a real fully fleshed debut with multiple songs and live performances. Their debut song is called Skibidi, a name intentionally chosen for the humor of it all, and its.... a really good debut song with a choreography made by the same group that created Like Jennie.

I've never heard of anything quite like it (maybe Unnies slam dunk but most of them weren't idols but profesional commedians). If you look at the actual performances they've done and the dance video you notice this is not a joke, they perform profesionally and vigorously. In many ways because this is what they have always wished for. Yuri just left SM after years of them giving her no music although she has expressed wanting to (half jokingly but very much a jab at the company). Sooyoung left SM years ago and has been very vocal about not feeling appreciated there and her love of perfoming, she even reached a deal with a japanese company to produce a single for her. These are women who loved to perform and didn't feel valued by SM. I think they began this as a joke and a good way to keep being in media, but once they saw the popularity the series was gaining they commited to not only make it an official series but a serious debut. At this point every episode they drop gains a million views quickly, and their debut song is trending in searches across Korean music charts. They hyped up this comical series and debut so much that it has yielded more domestic attention than other anticipated comebacks like that of RV (an opinion as a luvie myself).

I've seen people express that they think the success of the series is in response to the gap in comedy/variety content in the Kpop space and I agree. Not that current generations are unfunny or that SNSD are the funniest people in the entire world, or to say that this is even something that Kpop requires. Simply that there is no longer as much as a prevelance for these antics in current Kpop and HyoRiSoo saw it as an opening and gave a masterclass of improvistation and entertainment. I think it's a reflection on 2nd gen where variety was such a big part of their job and a massive way to pull people in.

Hyoyeon, Yuri and Sooyoung really just goofed all the way to a serious debut. Joking in front of the cameras, seriously training behind them, ultimatly getting the chance to perform that they've been waiting for years to get. They cheated the system.

Isn't that fascinating?

Saw the other post about someone spending $20K on their faves this year and it resonated with me. Last year, I spent $12K going to various US concerts for my faves with VIP and send off. And I plan to keep doing it and even have done trips in prior years to see them in Korea and Japan. I also buy a lot of merch, albums, and photocards (this one I have scaled back a bit in favour of concerts).

I've liked kpop for over 10 years, but it's only during COVID and starting my first corporate job (one in a very shitty industry and stressful field) that I started buying a lot of kpop merch. Then it started transitioning into concerts and kpop travel trips afterwards.

I know this is not the most healthy but at this point, it's really the only thing keeping me going. Some things that have played a role:

• Pretty rough childhood with absent parents so I'm not close to them. Lots of family conflicts and money issues so never did much with the family or develop hobbies.

• Not many close friends. Have friends I see a couple times a year and have been open about my depression and mental health, but never got much support. They support the kpop spending if it keeps me going. I get the feeling it's a topic (mental health stuff) they don't want to talk about so I don't share much anymore. I can tell it makes them uncomfortable. Life is getting busy for the friends too since we're at the stage where most of them are either: getting married, buying a place, or focused on their partner.

• Grew up being told to just work hard in school and work and things would work out. So I was always just working towards that and I think life has been disappointing in that aspect. I have an ok job, but I think the amount of work and effort I put into it, I expected it more. Worked a few shitty jobs, but didn't get the career progression I wanted and the job market is pretty bad now. Have a better job now, but still not what I expected so it feels like something I had to settle for.

• Stuck living at home since rent and even condos are so expensive in my city. I could afford to move out but it would just be very tight as a single person. So I save a lot by living with my parents (and how I justify my spending since I'm still saving a decent amount) but definitely at the cost of mental health. Trying to hope for the day where I can afford my own place and it won't be too expensive (keep telling myself this that it's only a few years...)

• Have tried stuff people do to get better like therapy, medication, exercise, doing new things, etc. Did this long term for years. But nothing much ever happens and I think I've just gotten tired in life that I don't have the energy anymore to keep trying.

I think life has just been disappointing to me in most aspects so my faves truly keep me going. Just watching some silly content can make me smile so easily or just listening to their music helps fill the quiet. I never had much fun in my life and I'm doing that now with kpop.

Just thought I would share this and I know there's definitely lots others who spend a lot too (met a lot of them in VIP lines lol). I know this won't last forever so also part of the reason I do this. I know I use kpop to cope, but it's the only constant in my life so it's hard to give up. Even my therapists supported this if it kept me going. But I do joke but also seriously know that there will be a hole once enlistments happen and when my faves are less active. That's the scary part of what do I do then.

If your life has been too carefree and joyful lately, I highly recommend watching Boys Planet for the first time in 2026, getting attached and then finding out what happened with the group :) (I'm upset and I had to tell someone)

Streets are saying BTS is being strongly predicted to headline Coachella 2027. The festival usually has 3-4 kpop or kpop-adjacent acts on their roster each year. If the rumors about BTS are true, which other kpop acts do you think could be joining them? Or, if you don’t think BTS will be there, which other kpop acts do you think Coachella will have invited instead?

Here is a list of who has performed at Coachella so far:

- 2016 - Epik High

- 2019 - Blackpink

- 2022 - Bibi, aespa, Jackson Wang, CL/2NE1, Epik High

- 2023 - Blackpink, Jackson Wang, DPR IAN

- 2024 - The Rose, Bibi, Le Sserafim, Ateez

- 2025 - Jennie, Lisa, Enhypen, XG

- 2026 - BigBang, Taemin, Katseye

Based on the past selections, I think NMIXX and Yves seem like good possibilities. Given Coachella’s history with YG-affiliated artists, I also think Babymonster isn’t out of the question. What do you guys think?

K-pop idols are entertainers. A lot of the content we see is them being entertaining and funny. But they are also human beings, with their own hopes, dreams and struggles. What are some examples of content that evokes poignancy and deep emotions in the viewer?

I've been on a bit of a journey this week, trying to get my perfectionist brain around the generation boundaries, especially the 4th gen to 5th gen transition! Thank you to everyone who commented on my post a few days ago :)

It seems that (whilst online publications like Billboard won't acknowledge them), .5 gens are the best way to mark transitional years/groups? For example, I see publications often call newjeans a 5th gen group, but they were 'simply' the trendsetters for the 5th gen sound. They obviously don't sit firmly in 4th gen, so presumably are the obvious candidates for 4.5 gen.

I think most would agree that 2023 was largely a transitional year, with a full mix of 4th-gen-esque groups and 5th-gen-esque groups, as the industry began to adapt and adopt the Y2K sound newjeans pioneered. I imagine there are other periods like this from throughout Kpop history right?

Would any mind talking me through which periods between each gen is considered those .5 gens, and which groups are most often considered .5 groups?

Hi everyone!

This post is a weekly thread for any thoughts you might have that feel don't need a post of its own but still would like to air to the world. All rules apply, but you can discuss anything you want related to Kpop.

Please be respectful and have fun!

When looking into older (2000's-2010's) groups in current day, it's pretty flagrant just how many things have been lost to time. Variety shows, TV appearances, certain performances, interviews, etc. Unless the group was incredibly popular and spanned into the 2020's, or had a reliable archiving source, most groups' older content is either partially lost or completely lost.

Variety shows subtitled in English from older groups tended to be split into multiple parts on YouTube/DailyMotion/Vimeo to avoid copyright strikes from the networks. Despite all of the cuts and different clips, most of these variety shows are no longer available in English subtitles in their full length on most sites due to repeated copyright strikes. More often than not when trying to watch an older variety program, you'll be met with one [2/10] clip in 240p with no continuation. Copies of these shows not subtitled in English do exist but are almost always in bad quality; another symptom of poor archiving. Big, notable things usually have multiple copies and archives of varying quality all over the internet (sometimes in some strange corners), but I've found that more mundane things like TV appearances (game shows, quiz shows, talk shows, etc) or temporary MC gigs are all totally lost.

Other than copyright, archives of certain groups simply get taken down due to inactivity or were deleted by their owner once they outgrew the group. When these "big fandom archives" that were supposed to be the main ones cataloguing and keeping certain clips get taken down/deleted, that takes a good chunk of the archival down with them. I have seen these in multiple older fandoms by now; fandom megaposts that link to completely dead blogs.

I know that certain Korean TV networks have started posting their old archives; MBC has an absolutely brilliant channel were they post music show appearances from the 90's-2000's and KBS has a huge backlog of concerts/stages/year-end award shows on this channel. If there are any more channels like this please comment them below; I'd love to see more of it.

I just find it sad that so many groups have some parts of their careers completely missing. So many moments and memories that can't be viewed again due to copyright or people simply forgetting to keep them. So many former archive blogs and sites were run by teenagers in the early 2010's that only did it out of love for their idols, their efforts are still appreciated but they should not be the main source for these pieces of media. TV networks and distribution companies need to put bigger effort in safekeeping certain clips before they get completely lost.

Les idoles de la 5ème génération deviennent-elles vraiment plus faibles vocalement ?
Je me demande si les compétences vocales deviennent moins importantes dans le K-pop de 5ème génération, surtout en ce qui concerne SM.
SM a toujours eu la réputation de vocalistes forts et distinctifs, mais je ne suis pas sûr d’avoir la même impression avec certains de leurs nouveaux groupes. Hearts2Hearts est un exemple qui m'a fait réfléchir à cela. Quand j'écoute Yeon, Carmen et Yuha, j'ai parfois du mal à distinguer leurs voix parce qu'elles ont des tons assez similaires et aigus. Leurs voix ne me semblent pas aussi reconnaissables individuellement que les vocalistes pour lesquels SM était connu dans les générations précédentes.
De manière plus générale, j'ai l'impression qu'un bon nombre de chansons de 5ème génération dépendent beaucoup d'accroches répétitives, de voix aiguës, de vocalises traitées, de chants et parfois même d'onomatopées, plutôt que de donner aux vocalistes l'occasion de montrer réellement leur gamme et leur individualité.

Il y a aussi des idoles qui ne sont vraiment pas de bons chanteurs mais qui sont quand même acceptées et réussies principalement à cause de leur apparence. Shuhua, Sakura et Eunchae sont les premières qui me viennent à l'esprit, même si elles sont toutes de la 4ème génération.
I’m not saying that every newer group has weak vocalists either. NMIXX is actually a great counterexample, because their members have very different and recognizable voices, and the group clearly puts a lot of emphasis on vocals. aespa is another good example, even though they’re 4th gen. Their vocal line has a lot of individuality, especially when it comes to their different tones and vocal colors, and you can usually tell the members apart pretty easily. That’s actually part of what makes me question the direction of some newer groups .

il y a des vocalistes talentueux de la fin de 4ème et de 5ème génération, et la plupart de ces idoles sont encore très jeunes et ont beaucoup de temps pour se développer. Je ne dis pas que toute la génération est vocalement faible.
Mais comparé aux générations précédentes, pensez-vous que les entreprises mettent moins l'accent sur le développement de vocalistes distinctifs ? Et si même SM, une entreprise historiquement associée au talent vocal, semble aller dans cette direction, cela dit quelque chose sur où va le K-pop ?
Ou est-ce que je juge simplement la 5ème génération trop tôt ?

I was very close to not attending their show due to some health issues, but I'm so glad I did. They put on a spectacular show for nearly two and a half hours. While everyone understands they are a vocal group, you do not understand just how good they are until you see them live. Goosebumps.

Each one of them brings something unique to the show as well. With Hwasa, I was surprised to find that she feels much more delicate (in a good way!) than I previously thought. If I could describe her energy it would be gracefully powerful. With Moonbyul I feel like it was such a contridiction. She was the one I felt both the most METAL vibes from (especially with her solo) and was simultaneously the most cute. Wheein feels like crystaline brilliance. It was like ice in purity but also sunshine reflecting off snow in its grandeur. Solar was like a supernova, and I cannot get over her vocals. I honestly cannot think of more powerful vocals I've seen live in recent years as hers.

If you ever have the chance to go see this group live, it's 100% worth it.

As in, you watch it all the time and don't get sick of it, just the way it looks is entertaining to you, you feel as happy as a little kid watching Cocomelon when you're watching this MV?

For me it's Le Sserafim CRAZY. Everything about that MV makes me happy - the song itself, the fashion, the sets, and the legendary house of juicy couture!!

I came across a post saying that some group (I’d honestly never heard of before) “saved kpop,” and I couldn’t help but wonder… what does saving Kpop even mean?

Like, what are we actually referring to when we say a group “saved” kpop? Bringing in new fans? Having a fresh sound? Changing the direction of the industry? Having a bunch of successful songs?

Because if you asked me to name a group that I think brought a genuinely fresh sound and has a very distinct identity and color, the first group that comes to mind is probably BOYNEXTDOOR.

Not saying they “saved K-pop,” because I don’t really think any one group can claim that lol, but I do think they have a sound that feels very them and stands out among a lot of what’s currently being released.

It also makes me think of Dino (seventeen), who was called the “future of kpop,” and now, with his solo debut, he’s bringing elements of 2nd gen kpop and even trot back onto the charts. That’s another example of how one artist can influence the conversation around kpop and bring attention to sounds and styles that may not be as prominent in the mainstream anymore.

So I’m curious: when you say a group “saved kpop,” what does that actually mean to you? And which group would you pick?

Disclaimer: This is meant as a discussion, not a fanwar. You can disagree without dragging anyone’s faves. be kind pls

What are some parts of the K-pop system that don't translate well to Western members?

Groups like KATSEYE and GIRLSET/VCHA are global girl groups created using the K-pop training and management system. I think the performance and training side clearly has benefits, but I'm curious about the cultural differences.

Things that are normal or accepted within the K-pop industry might clash with what Western members expect when it comes to management, creative freedom, work culture and their personal lives.

VCHA especially made me think about this considering everything that happened with the original lineup.

What do you think are the biggest downsides of using the K-pop system for a group made up primarily of Western members?

1: most kpop covers are really bad lol

and i'm saying that as a member of a kpop cover team. most kpop covers look bad and idk why people watch them. especially the solo covers and especially girls covering bg choreos. most kpop cover dancers are not trained or the quality is just really poor

2: people don't talk enough about aespa's change

aespa went through one of the wildest glowups in the kpop history. like when you watch 'next level' or 'savage', they're not comparible to 'dirty work' or 'drama'. they needed that rebranding and it was spectacular. sm luckily fired all of their previous stylists that gave them horrible outfits and makeup. they also finally noticed the dancing was horrible so they got them better training and backup dancers (and better choreos overall). the directing of their mvs is insane as well. aespa's case proves every group has a potential, you just have to do better at quality.

3: i'm mad how overlooked seventeen units are

why are we wasting genius concepts such as 'pretty woman' or 'this man' on units that will never get acknowledged outside of fandom #realhiddengems

4: swim by bts is not nearly as bad as people want it to be

i feel like some people who hate it are people who need constant flow of dopamine every second or else they get bored. r&b is a genre that exists and is doing really well. bts broke through the kpop industry long time ago so idk why people are mad that they do stuff for more of a general audience. people outside of kpop dont want to listen to your click clack brrra coco loco like a stickaaaa boom boom baddabim badabum cock

5: i believe sincerely it was evan's decision to leave enha

people try to say he was forced by the company but i don't think so. there are tens of idols who got kicked out of their group and they don't treat that idol like hybe treats evan. i really do believe he wanted to leave, although it might've been a pretty sudden decision. i also think the members are not on good terms with him; i see some tiktok edits about "the members being sad and missing heeseung" but it's just a slow mo of a random clip. i also believe he now regrets it.

I’ve been thinking about this a lot and I wanna know your thoughts about it.

I know a lot of idols go to America to promote and also expand their image in the American market as well as their international fanbase. Because of that they do often end up doing interviews with American media outlets, radio shows, YouTubers, etc.

But in some instances I know how some of those interviewers can be like “dismissive” if I can word it correctly. Like there are some times where interviewers mainly talk to the members who are fluent in English, which can unintentionally leave the other members feeling excluded. I’ve also seen interviews where idols get compared to other groups (especially BTS) or are asked questions that might feel very much a little dismissive or repetitive.

So I’m wondering who do you think is the best interview when it comes to interviewing idols whenever they come to the US?

For me, I’m love any interviewers that are hosted by Zach Sang. Like he makes it a positive environment for the guests, he makes each member feel included and comfortable, he doesn’t judge whenever one would speak in their native language and he actually really listens and understand the stories of each idol that they are guests with.

What about you? Who do you think is the best interviewer?

TLDR: I've dropped $20K+ on kpop this year for my ult group. I am financially able to afford it but the dangers of k-pop consumerism / parasocialism (which I am aware of) make me conflicted.

I've been into kpop for almost a decade now, I've had periods where I was very in the weeds of k-pop news & supporting my fav group, but I never actually spent too much. These were college / teenage years.

Fast forward a few years - I've been very fortunate to work a very well paying job, zero debt, and am single. I do have long hours, but the salary and benefits I have no reason to complain. K-pop is one of my main hobbies that offers some sort of escape from the corporate rat race.

I fell in love with my current ult group a few years ago. They've become the only group I really follow and I am super proud of them & passionate about supporting them. This isn't a "they saved my life" or "found me in a dark time" thing. I just genuinely gravitated towards them.

However, I feel like I just snowballed crazily the past year:

• 2-3 fancalls / fansigns
• Attending concerts in korea
• VIP for multiple tour stops
• Buying merch / expensive items (like signed polas)

You can see how this adds up to quite a lot of money. Now I'm able to fortunately afford this, but I know compared to the normal fan this is probably crazy. What's insane is this is only a fraction of the events the rich Chinese fansites probably attend + spend - which I of course cannot compete with and is mind blowing.

I've been into k-pop long enough to be wary of the parasocialism and consumerism. I have not and will not ever stalk my ults or go to the airport to see them. I know I have zero chance of dating them and would never protest if my ult bias was found to be dating.

But I still knowingly fall for the following, which makes me feel conflicted:

• The 'idol' persona - I obviously still find my ult bias / group very attractive and get starstruck and want to see them more in the flesh
• Related to the first bullet, but wanting to interact with them more. This is definitely the culprit of doing fancalls/fansigns + going to multiple tour stops. You get that 'high' and happiness from getting interactions and being recognized and it's a domino effect.
• Consumerism - all the things I buy are just sitting there. And signed albums and polas that you swipe your card with really don't become fulfilling over time.

The concerts were amazing experiences, and I've met A LOT of wonderful people the past year. Seeing my ult group brings me a lot of happiness (though I am NOT dependent on them for it). Just genuinely have so much fun and a great time, and I let my inner fangirl/fanboy come out.

But the traveling to a different country just to see your favs, going the distance with spending on fancalls/fansigns, the multiple concert stops (w/ expensive VIP tickets), and especially the part where I crave more interactions and want my ult group to recognize me..... it's bugging me inside whether I've long crossed beyond the line of what is healthy.

I'd be curious to hear other people's thoughts.

That’s it that’s the question are they more famous there now??like it was worthy leaving WJSN?
Are they now actress or they still singing full time???
The last time I saw one of them in my screen is cheng xiao on falling into your smile