r/nba United States Oct 16 '23

Who is a better basketball player right now, Shai Gilgeous-Alexander or Trae Young?

After one all-star season, ESPN ranked SGA #8 which is kinda crazy considering he leapfrogged tenured stars like Booker and Trae.

Booker is probably better than SGA but is SGA better than Trae Young?

2 Upvotes

279 comments sorted by

198

u/AccomplishedFront563 Oct 16 '23

Just wait, fans haven’t had a chance to turn on SGA yet

48

u/xPeaWhyTee [DAL] Luka Dončić Oct 16 '23

This is really it and it's unfortunate really. Every young star goes through this cycle where everybody loves you in the beginning when you first break out and then the criticism will come a few seasons later. We've been seeing it with Trae and we're seeing it with Luka now. And then the love comes back if said star wins a ring.

13

u/bigblooddraco Timberwolves Oct 16 '23

People going start hating on SGA ig captions in 2 seasons

23

u/Brooklynfool Thunder Oct 16 '23

Lmao nah it’ll happen this season when he has 16 FTA against the Lakers in a close win. Their fans will go absolutely bonkers against him if that happens

0

u/jacobpltn Lakers Oct 16 '23

I mean considering Shai had 12 FTA and 30 pts in a win against us the game where Lebron broke the all-time NBA scoring record, I don’t think having 16 FTA would suddenly make the fan base hate his guts

56

u/30another Suns Oct 16 '23

Once nephews actually watch him, and how he gets his 30ppg, he’ll be hated the way Harden was. Without the no defense hate.

41

u/AnkitPancakes Thunder Oct 16 '23

when you drive to the paint 25% more than literally any other player in the league, you're gonna get fouled quite a bit ¯\(ツ)

32

u/FKJVMMP [MIL] Bill Zopf Oct 16 '23

Harden typically lead the league in drives too, it didn’t help.

24

u/AnkitPancakes Thunder Oct 16 '23

It’s not even close between the two. Harden in 17-18 drove 17 times a game. 1200 times total.

Last season Shai averaged 24 drives a game - 1600 total.

And fwiw, Shai has lead the league in drives per game in 2021-2022 and 2020-2021 at 24/game as well.

(Also interestingly, Harden was near the top but not at the top - but doesn’t really matter for the point I’m proving.)

18

u/UnsuspectingS1ut Heat Oct 16 '23

He had half as many 2pa per game as Shai and they average the same number of fta

14

u/Bail____ Raptors Oct 16 '23

Think it helps that Shai isn’t flopping or hooking arms when going in on drives… that’s just me though

5

u/OttaBenga Grizzlies Oct 16 '23

he isnt?

10

u/[deleted] Oct 16 '23

No?

Lol Shai foul baits but he doesn’t do the same shit Harden does. This thread is crazy.

6

u/Bail____ Raptors Oct 16 '23

As much as i hate the word, Shai is crafty as hell & sure he might bait dudes but it’s not xonsranr arm hooks & flops.

We’ve got Danny Green out here talking about the Shai match up & how deep his bag is on podcasts

12

u/[deleted] Oct 16 '23

The best players in the league create 3 point plays. Either by shooting 3s, or drawing fouls. Just the way it is.

-12

u/AnkitPancakes Thunder Oct 16 '23

So you just proved my point lol. Shai is one of the league leaders in fouls drawn. His 90% ft rate means his expected points per possession is 1.8pts if he doesnt get an and one and 2.9pts if he does. He scores points in a stupidly efficient way at volume

34

u/sickfalco Mavericks Oct 16 '23

Think he was agreeing with you chief lol

-2

u/AnkitPancakes Thunder Oct 16 '23

o lol. my bad - i'm feeling quite defensive in this thread haha

0

u/allmykangbaekhomies Magic Oct 16 '23

wym 90% ft rate? if you mean what basketball-reference means, and you calculate it as FTA / FGA, his ft rate is .53, which is still great but it isn’t .9. That would mean he would have attempted over 1200 free throws last year which is obviously ridiculous

edit: i think you’re confusing ft rate with his ft shooting percentage, which is 90%. different stats, and it doesn’t automatically make his expected points per possession 1.8

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u/[deleted] Oct 16 '23

[deleted]

10

u/[deleted] Oct 16 '23

Harden was always near the top of the league in drives

9

u/MrChexmix Rockets Oct 16 '23

Harden led the league in drives during those years (2017-2020ish)

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1

u/Marauder91 Raptors Oct 16 '23

And flops

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9

u/30another Suns Oct 16 '23

He gets 1/3 of his points from FTs. That’s the point. Once people watch OKC more, he’ll get more hate for it.

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3

u/noknownothing Oct 16 '23

Well, he hasn't been compared to Luka yet.

6

u/ShaedonSharpeMVP_ Trail Blazers Oct 16 '23

SGA is 6'6" and plays defense. He'll never get turned on like trae

7

u/allmykangbaekhomies Magic Oct 16 '23

shai really is the reddit darling rn. all potential with minimal expectations. he’s a great player but if he really is straight up better than trae rn you would expect him to actually make the playoffs at least once and not just one play-in appearance

20

u/Brooklynfool Thunder Oct 16 '23 edited Oct 16 '23

He’s been to the playoffs twice in his career already lmaooo

Edit: y’all downvoting me for correcting dude w the clearly false statement? Lmaoo typical r/nba moment

2

u/[deleted] Oct 16 '23

[deleted]

7

u/Brooklynfool Thunder Oct 16 '23

I don’t understand why people have to put down others to prop up their guys. Trae and Shai are both great players and are both top 15 level players. I never once said SGA is better than Trae I just responded to dude who said he needs to make the playoffs when SGA has made it twice already in his career.

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88

u/honestnbafan Oct 16 '23

Would probably lean towards SGA but it's not even close to the 10th best player vs. 30th best player gap that most media lists seem to rank them as

8

u/[deleted] Oct 16 '23

It’s a big difference in the sense that having a top 10 player is basically the price of entry to a championship

38

u/honestnbafan Oct 16 '23

I'd say it's more like a top 5 player honestly

If you look at the last few Finals the team with a lower end top 10 player like Butler/Booker/Tatum loses to the team with a true MVP level superstar

-11

u/[deleted] Oct 16 '23

Eh I was trying to avoid the greater discussion here but SGA will be a top 5 player in the league.

7

u/CutLonzosHair2017 [LAL] Stu Lantz Oct 16 '23

I'd bet quite a bit on that not being the case. The top 5 are usually held by the same people for like a decade.

0

u/[deleted] Oct 16 '23

One, it’s way more likely for SGA to be top 5 than Trae. Two, if he’s already considered top 10 it’s not inconceivable that he will eventually spend some time in the top 5 discussion. Three, SGA’s combination of size, speed, handles, foot work, and touch make him so valuable that I think it’s easy to see a near future where people see him as top 5. Plus he functions well off-ball

-4

u/CutLonzosHair2017 [LAL] Stu Lantz Oct 16 '23

One, it’s way more likely for SGA to be top 5 than Trae.

Sure in that neither really do.

I think it’s easy to see a near future where people see him as top 5.

Not how it works

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5

u/MorePower7 Oct 16 '23

I'd say having a MVP is the price of entry to a championship.

Pretty much all the NBA Finals winners in the last 40 years have had an MVP winner on the team.

Exceptions are 2019 Raptors- but Kawhi was a top 3-5 player. And the 1989, 1990, 2004 Pistons- who were historically great defensive teams.

-6

u/[deleted] Oct 16 '23

I think it’s very easy to see Shai winning a MVP soon

1

u/TatumTopFye Celtics Oct 16 '23

Not before Tatum or Luka. SGA needs a solid playoff run before you can entertain that idea.

7

u/Atl-Fan_FTS Hawks Oct 16 '23

That’s why Shai went so deep into the playoffs last year, obviously

10

u/[deleted] Oct 16 '23 edited Oct 16 '23

shai is the only young star i’ve seen not criticized for losing and not making the playoffs. booker for years was called a bum empty stats player for doing the same shit with an even worse roster. shais a guard with very high usage who averaged 10fts this year, history has shown that this doesn’t work the best in the playoffs yet ppl already putting him higher than guys who have actually performed in the playoffs

3

u/[deleted] Oct 17 '23

history has shown that this doesn’t work the best in the playoffs

Trae young is a high usage high free throw volume guard. Yet you’re saying he’s “proven”

Luka Doncic is a high usage high free throw volume guard.

It didn’t work for Harden the best and even Harden was still a better playoff performer than most think. Stop pushing this false narrative.

0

u/[deleted] Oct 18 '23

luka and trae don’t be averaging 11fts lol. so much of shais game is fts, and the playoffs are far more physical and fouls doesn’t get called nearly as much. look at embiids playoff history

7

u/[deleted] Oct 18 '23

Shai averaged 10.9 free throws

Luka averaged 10.5 free throws

Shai takes a fraction of as many 3s as Trae or Luka. His drives more than both. There’s also Giannis free throws which don’t change much from RS to playoffs .

Embiid playoff struggles are rooted in his health struggles more than style of play. But like I said, there IS NO norm.

fouls don’t get called nearly as much

In the last handful of years, free throws per game in the playoffs have relatively stayed the same from the regular season to the post season.

Stop these false narratives lol.

10

u/[deleted] Oct 16 '23

Y’all need to stop judging individual players on team success. This train of thought is how people end up looking so stupid with players like Jokic and Giannis

7

u/Tight-Possible-478 Hawks Oct 16 '23

When you start having these comparison discussions, team success most definitely gets taken into account. Literally every star is judged on their wins and losses.

11

u/[deleted] Oct 16 '23

Just because everyone does it does not make it intelligent.

5

u/Tight-Possible-478 Hawks Oct 16 '23 edited Oct 16 '23

Ummm dude… “You play to win the game”

Stats are meaningless without the results to back them up. I say that’s a pretty intelligent thought process.

9

u/[deleted] Oct 16 '23

If you look at young players on young teams and solely judge them on their teams success you will continually end up looking stupid. We’ve seen stupid fans say Lebron can’t win, say Dirk can’t win, say Steph can’t win, say Giannis can’t win, say Jokic can’t win. Now you stand here cluelessly saying Shai isn’t a winner because he only dragged a young OKC team with no center to the play-in. After he just dragged a FIBA team to bronze.

-2

u/Tight-Possible-478 Hawks Oct 16 '23

Who said Shai can’t win or isn’t a winner? He made the playoffs his first two years in the league on two different teams. That’s pretty impressive

But if you compare his success to Trae’s it doesn’t match up.

People want to discount Trae because of his size and say Shai has more potential because of it. Welll… where are the results to back that shit up? I’m just listing the stats and the results from those stats. You can call it FACTS. Most of the arguments here are what ifs and potential. The question is who is better right now

7

u/[deleted] Oct 16 '23

I get wanting to give Trae props. He’s a very special offensive player. I don’t fault you for that. But Shai is a great player for more than his size. If you don’t get that you probably haven’t watched him much lately. He’s a volume scorer that’s great on-ball or off, he’s a two-way impact player, and he’s arguably the hardest ball handler to stay in front of. He’s easy to build around and it’s easy to imagine a title team built around him.

0

u/Atl-Fan_FTS Hawks Oct 16 '23

FIBA conversation goes out the window when Dennis Shroeder was mvp of a golden medal team let’s be real

2

u/[deleted] Oct 16 '23

I can tell you didn’t watch the games

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106

u/DorkandPoon Hawks Oct 16 '23

I don’t think people understand how bad the Hawks were under Nate. Trae doesn’t get love for dragging that roster to the playoffs for the past 3 years but Shai is top 10 for losing in the play ins?

37

u/ClaymoresRevenge Bulls Oct 16 '23

What impresses me the most is how he steps up in the playoffs. He's ready for the moment

17

u/Kcreep997 Oct 16 '23

This and i'm not even a fan of his whatsoever. Trae's a real competitor.

12

u/Standard-Big1474 Hawks Oct 16 '23

Has hit a game winner every year we've made the postseason

13

u/itssensei Cavaliers Oct 16 '23

That shimmy 3 baby

37

u/fireglz Hawks Oct 16 '23

The fact that he's never been swept after playing in two straight years is slept on.

Lotta players been swept with bad teams and coaches. Trae Young never.

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u/[deleted] Oct 16 '23

Trae. He’s done it in the playoffs too. Led his team to the conference finals

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u/Happy_Requirement187 Oct 16 '23

Give me Two-Way Trae All Day

66

u/dfields3710 Bulls Oct 16 '23

I’m saying Trae. SGA a good scorer who plays defense but Trae is a good scorer along with being a really good playmaker.

Like yall really underestimate how starved for playmakers the league is.

13

u/170k_tax_bracket-btw Lakers Oct 16 '23

You can’t teach height tho, SGA being 6’6 with defensive prowess is massive.

You don’t see short guards when chips unless it’s Lowry and the other team gets injured. Curry is 6’3 and led the league in steals one year. That foundation is massive in the post season.

7

u/[deleted] Oct 16 '23

Shai had 31.4 PPG last season. He’s much more than just “a good scorer”

8

u/jdjdnfnnfncnc Oct 22 '23

The fact that this is downvoted is insane lmao. Hawks fans really are the worst

10

u/LoxDnw Finland Oct 16 '23

You act like Shai isn't a good playmaker lol. He's a good playmaker, while also being the other stuff you said, good scorer, I'd say better scorer because his efficiency is nuts, and his defense is tiers better.

53

u/Tight-Possible-478 Hawks Oct 16 '23 edited Oct 16 '23

Has Shai led the league in total assists the last two seasons? He’s a career 4.5 APG compared to Trae at 9.3. There’s levels to this shit bro.

41

u/Petri-chord Clippers Bandwagon Oct 16 '23

people somehow dont notice trae is one of the absolute best playmakers in the league. idk who id put over him besides jokic and cp3

1

u/Hedgey Hawks Oct 16 '23

If Trae had teammates that could actually hit their shots cough Deandre Hunter and John Collins cough I have no doubt he'd be averaging 11+ assists per game.

So many times Trae makes the right read, and his teammates can't fucking make a shot to save their life.

-13

u/UngusChungus94 Thunder Oct 16 '23

That is all Trae really has on SGA. Trae is a better 3 point shooter but less of a scorer overall. It’s close idk who id take honestly.

34

u/[deleted] Oct 16 '23

[deleted]

4

u/UngusChungus94 Thunder Oct 16 '23

Not saying it’s small. But being able to defend and score at a higher level is important, too.

1

u/[deleted] Oct 16 '23

What do you mean score at a higher level? SGA has 1 year where he scored more than trae lol. Trae is a 3 level scorer who’s proven it over 5 years and in the playoffs. Shai had a good year last year but trae is more proven so until shai can consistently prove he’s a better scorer he ain’t.

8

u/Tight-Possible-478 Hawks Oct 16 '23 edited Oct 16 '23

That’s also not all Trae has on him. Trae has more all star appearances and has been further in the playoffs. More durable since Trae has never missed any games due to a significant injury. Trae has 353 games played to Shai’s 311 and that’s not even counting playoffs

I’m not trying to hate on Shai but people love to be prisoners of the moment. He had a phenomenal season last year and now all of a sudden he’s top 10 over guys like Booker, Trae, and Ja?? When his team missed the freakin playoffs last season? Make that make sense.

People shat on Booker until recently because he couldn’t make the playoffs his first few seasons. If Shai is HIM he needs to be graded on the same standard. All I’m saying is Shai needs to prove himself like these other guys ALREADY HAVE

-7

u/K1NG2L4Y3R Timberwolves Oct 16 '23

That’s cause he has Giddey next to him and J Dub. Shai is more of a finisher while Trae has to create nearly everything like Harden did.

1

u/achyutthegoat Spurs Oct 16 '23

Shai is not a good playmaker

4

u/LoxDnw Finland Oct 16 '23

Shai is not a good playmaker

Say you don't watch the Thunder or Shai, ever lmao.

Did you see his Fiba run? I'd say not because he showed everything of a great big playmaking guard, especially against the USA. He was double and tripled teamed all game long and made awesome passes and playmaking every single time and only turned the ball over once, despite being tripled teamed. He shares the ball with Giddey or else he'd have a lot more assists, because he's a deadly playmaker on his drives.

Watch some games mate.

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u/[deleted] Oct 16 '23

SGA a good scorer who plays defense but Trae is a good scorer along with being a really good playmaker.

What?? Is this a joke?

SGA is a better scorer. SGA is a better defender. SGA is a mismatch against every other guards, while Trae is a physical liability every game, against everyone. Even Curry is bigger than Trae, and Curry is small

SGA is also a good playmaker. If you don't know that by now, you're clearly talking out of your damn butt cheeks lad

Trae is only a better shooter, but even that is not so great. Trae takes too many bad and low IQ shots. NBA is not college basketball

Bottomline is, no 6'1 PG would ever be "better" than a 6'7 PG. Especially when the 6'7 PG is so ELITE at scoring already, who can also make great plays and play defense. SGA also has endless potential, because of that size advantage.

13

u/Happy_Requirement187 Oct 16 '23

This reads like Twilight fan-fiction

11

u/Tight-Possible-478 Hawks Oct 16 '23 edited Oct 16 '23

Now that was a dumb take. 6’1 (Pistons) Isaiah Thomas is leagues better than let’s say 6’7 Shaun Livingston. Height isn’t a prerequisite to a great basketball player. There’s also this thing called ummm… SKILL

And all that shit you just listed while Shai still has 2 playoff appearances to Trae’s 3. Also no conference finals appearance. Stop trying to anoint him before he’s even accomplished anything

How about we look at career stats as well.

Trae - 25.5 PPG; 3.7 RPG; 9.3 APG; 43.7 FG%

Shai - 21.1 PPG; 4.6 RPG; 4.5 APG; 48.4 FG%

Considering what Trae has accomplished versus what Shai hasn’t that’s a pretty sizable gap

3

u/[deleted] Oct 16 '23

Only one more rebound a game despite five extra inches of height and longer arms :x

1

u/[deleted] Oct 16 '23

What does accomplishments have to do with this though.

Shai last year had a better year than a Trae ever. Scored better, scored more efficiently, played better defense.

Trae of course is a better playmaker. But there’s also a reason why every advanced stat prefers 2023 Shai more than … any year of Trae

1

u/Tight-Possible-478 Hawks Oct 16 '23

Because Trae has shown he can navigate through playoff defenses that are focused solely on stopping him. Shai got that opportunity last year and shit the bed against the Wolves

You can have him bro idc. I’ll take the results we’ve gotten from Trae over Shai getting bounced in the playin in his best season ever

3

u/[deleted] Oct 16 '23

Trae Young is underrated and a okay playoff performer. He’s not some sort of super playoff riser though, there are PLENTY of examples of him shitting the bed and his efficiency shows it.

Shai got that opportunity last year against the Wolves.

Sigh. I love Trae Young so I’m not going to spam bad faith arguments. All I ask is you don’t either because you know this is purposely omitting the truth of what happened.

Shai played 2 play in games. He had the opportunity against the pelicans and went crazy after a bad first half. In the Wolves game against a team that matches up terrible with us, he literally got elbowed in the eye and was blood shot for the rest of the second half.

Don’t do that same dumb shit Trae haters do to Shai.

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5

u/False-House-1003 Wizards Oct 16 '23

I don't know who is better. I would want SGA on my roster over Trae, but that's just my personal preference.

12

u/antipistonsandsixers NBA Oct 16 '23

I take Young. Makes everybody else better and can be a killer in the playoffs.

20

u/CabbageStockExchange Lakers Oct 16 '23

Personally I like Trae Young more and would feel more confident with him

3

u/capelaMVP Hawks Oct 16 '23

Ok, why are so many Trae threads coming up again?

26

u/gochuuuu [BOS] Tom Heinsohn Oct 16 '23

Ill take shai every time

3

u/Elyx117 Oct 16 '23

Side question: In retrospect, should Clippers have kept Shai AND all those juicy picks? it's now looking like a hell of a bad deal even if you account for PG's heroics.

3

u/[deleted] Oct 16 '23

SGA for sure is better.

3

u/hogasalsip77914 Oct 17 '23

SGA is really good defensively and trae is awful. This isn’t a debate

9

u/Other_Ambition_5142 Hawks Oct 16 '23

Trae, he’s averaged around 30 and 10 multiple times and has playoff success. When SGA has these seasons consistently, and wins playoff games, I’d say him. But until then, trae.

7

u/SeeingThings123 Lakers Oct 16 '23 edited Oct 16 '23

Idk man, can we actually see Shai perform as a clear cut first option in the playoffs first before we start putting him these convos?

Like, his regular season numbers are cool…..can the PLAYSTYLE hold up in the playoffs?

He’s an extremely iso heavy player reliant on a ton of free throws to get his points…that style rarely fares well in the postseason because it’s far too easy to scheme against.

To add to that, he’s also a low volume, average efficiency 3-point shooter…he WILL be sagged off of and he WILL see extra bodies in the paint.

He’s also a very reactionary, albeit good, passer who hits pretty basic passing reads which, again, playoff defenses will become adept at shutting off those obvious passing windows.

The only guys I can think of rn who had any success with that style in recent years is Luka and Harden…both of whom are FAR superior passers than Shai and STILL had that criticism of “can you go far with this playstyle?”

But of course, this is Shai criticism on r/NBA so it’s probably gonna get mass downvoted.

26

u/[deleted] Oct 16 '23

What has SGA done in the playoffs lol? Give me Trae Young as he lead his team to ECF and has been averaging 28/10 for a couple of seasons.

4

u/jdjdnfnnfncnc Oct 22 '23

This is insane. If you watched a single OKC game last year it should be clear they’re not even in the same stratosphere. Shai led the youngest team in NBA history to 1 less win than Trae and his makeshift super team.

34

u/SnooChipmunks4208 Oct 16 '23

These anti-SGA takes range from shit to fuckin shit.

15

u/[deleted] Oct 16 '23

What has he done to say he’s better than Trae?

-16

u/LilBigZay Thunder Oct 16 '23

Play better?

17

u/[deleted] Oct 16 '23

When?

14

u/falconhawk2158 Hawks Oct 16 '23

One year of scoring better doesn’t mean he plays better. If you put Trae on OKC last year they win the playin. Trae has taken not very talented teams to the playoffs and won in the playoffs.

8

u/GeraldOfRivia211 Oct 16 '23

Thunder fans aren't known for watching basketball

2

u/[deleted] Oct 16 '23

I’m known for watching basketball.

Saying “put Trae on OKC and they win the play in” isn’t a “I watch basketball” take considering we went up against KAT/Gobert with NO center.

Matter fact, remove Trae’s lob threats for a year and give him no big that can finish inside. Since we’re talking about watching basketball lol

1

u/Hedgey Hawks Oct 16 '23

Have you watched Clint Capella try and make a layup?

3

u/[deleted] Oct 16 '23

Have you watched Poku or Muscala try? Lmao.

Matter fact fuck layups, have you seen them dunk.

3

u/[deleted] Oct 16 '23

This thread sucks lol. It’s not even about their ability.

Shai played better than Trae ever has last year. Now if he falls off or something, sure. But how likely is that?

Shai last year put up better impact metrics than Trae ever has. It’s not just scoring and he’s bigger. It’s not just scoring lol

0

u/Bino19 Thunder Oct 16 '23

Trae on OKC wasn’t saving their putrid frontcourt against the Timberwolves

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u/murrayforthree Nuggets Oct 16 '23

SGA.

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u/New_Essay_4869 Thunder Nov 19 '23

Aint ni way this is a debate anymore, right?

5

u/donkey_kay Magic Oct 16 '23

Idk but they are both really fun to watch

4

u/WaileaWowie Oct 16 '23

Trae easily

3

u/[deleted] Oct 16 '23

Honestly one is ascending while the other is seemingly plateaued, which the second part just seems that way. Trae’s defense is horrible, but in all reality good defensive teams can still succeed with a player like Trae, but the Hawks just have to find some consistency in those rotations, that’s not Trae’s fault, but he shoulders blame as the face of the team. Shai is a guy that wasn’t expected to be a star, so people will always dig him. He’s becoming an incredible two-way star. It all depends on their franchises honestly, and personally I don’t trust the Hawks to put Trae in a better position than OKC will with Shai.

3

u/capelaMVP Hawks Oct 16 '23

You think Trae has plateaued after his age-24 season?

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u/n0th1ng10 Oct 16 '23

I got Trae. He’s just ruthless. Sga is great but Trae is someone who u do not want to play against in the playoffs. U better hope the fans don’t start yelling “fuck Trae young”. He’s the type of player to turn it up after that.

4

u/AYAYAYA__ Lakers Oct 16 '23

That ruthlessness led Trae to average 15 ppg on 32% shooting in the 2022 playoffs

23

u/clear831 Heat Oct 16 '23

Spo coaching in that series was a masterclass on how to handle Trae.

14

u/GusBus14 Hawks Oct 16 '23

Spo and Bam still give me nightmares

10

u/clear831 Heat Oct 16 '23

The entire team bought into the scheme. Keep pressure on Trae, once he crosses half court double/trap and make that ball move. Then when he was on defense, who ever he was guarding, put Trae into some type of action, keep him moving and try to get him on one of our main guys. Nate should have been fired as soon as that series ended lol

10

u/Atl-Fan_FTS Hawks Oct 16 '23

Both John Collins AND Clint Capela were playing injured because we had no other backup bigs. Literally all the Heat had to worry about was stopping Trae and to their credit they did it and it worked, but Trae (and I mean this unironically) was the only one on our entire team capable of dribbling the ball up the court or into the paint without getting stripped. It’s unfair to blame him for those stats

20

u/n0th1ng10 Oct 16 '23

Also carried a team to the ecf in 2021 with his second option as bogdan bogdanovic. And avg close to 30 and 10 this year in the playoffs. Also after that 2022 series he eliminated the heat in the play in. He’s a killer.

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u/Blowback_ Oct 16 '23

After this year with Chet back, there will be no debate...Shai bout to go nutty

2

u/frodounchained [LAL] Kobe Bryant Oct 16 '23

It’s close but I think sga

13

u/LoxDnw Finland Oct 16 '23 edited Oct 16 '23

Better defender, more efficient on offense. Offers more size to play 1-3. Definitely Shai for now Imo. I like bigger guards as they're generally easier to build around.

-5

u/UnhingedSupernova United States Oct 16 '23

The only aspect Trae beats Shai is playmaking.

22

u/[deleted] Oct 16 '23

And 3 point shooting

17

u/noknownothing Oct 16 '23

And playoff appearances

3

u/[deleted] Oct 16 '23

facts

24

u/[deleted] Oct 16 '23

You said “only” as if that’s some trivial facet of the game

13

u/[deleted] Oct 16 '23

And availability. SGA is always resting. Also playmaking is an insanely valuable skill.

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u/falconhawk2158 Hawks Oct 16 '23

And clutch and winning in the playoffs and availability and he’s been scoring better shai has one year of elite scoring while Trae has been doing it.

2

u/chitownbulls92 Bulls Oct 16 '23

Shai but the gap isn't as big as a lot might imagine

11

u/Cold_Carpenter_1798 Oct 16 '23

It’s trae

2

u/LoxDnw Finland Oct 16 '23

Wrong.

3

u/[deleted] Oct 16 '23

Pretty similar caliber overall

2

u/DorkandPoon Hawks Oct 16 '23

I think so too but I always get downvoted to hell when I say it. I guess it’s the flair

9

u/Cold_Carpenter_1798 Oct 16 '23

This sub hates trae and has a hard on for Shai rn

4

u/Tight-Possible-478 Hawks Oct 16 '23

Facts man. I just get annoyed when people try to act like it’s not even a convo. It’s always what Trae doesn’t do compared to all the things the other guy does. Lol it’s going to be hilarious when the Hawks make the playoffs for a 4th straight season and Shai misses it for the 4th straight.

“But.. But.. Look at Shai’s PPG and efficiency”

Tf outa here

2

u/[deleted] Oct 17 '23

You’re entire argument is based on a team stat but you’re saying “fuck out of here” to individual stats? Lol.

You added all star Dejounte Murray to a team full of established NBA players and won one more game than OKC that was projected to be tanking for Wemby. But because you only had to win one play in game while we had to win two, Shai is a bum and Trae is a “winner”.

I actually do think it’s close but I find it hilarious that y’all don’t have actual ability arguments since Shai had better stats and advanced stats than Trae ever did last year.

4

u/-Acerin Mavericks Oct 16 '23

SGA is better

2

u/tunken Mavericks Oct 16 '23

They are close in value. It’s impossible to choose without context

1

u/1time4urmind Raptors Oct 16 '23

Shai 10000%

1

u/milkdudler Oct 16 '23

Definitely Trae. Anyone saying Shai doesn’t know ball. He’s Canadian.

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u/luke_workin Celtics [BOS] The Jays Oct 16 '23

Hmm. Probably Shai but it's close. Trae is really underrated

2

u/achyutthegoat Spurs Oct 16 '23

SGA but it's close

0

u/Nantee_69 Oct 16 '23

SGA might be better right now but I'd still pick trae coz he is a better passer... SGA cant even carry his team to playoffs.. trae carried his team to conference finals.

1

u/MNMastiff Oct 16 '23

Trae is amazing talent. But in pursuit of winning, he is close to useless for two reasons:

  1. Most obviously his D. Between size, strength and effort, he is (by eyesight and metrics) the worst defender in the league.

  2. He is a brilliant scorer at all three levels and a brilliant passer too. But he is the anti-Steph. If he ran demonically with out the ball, his gravity would break down defenses.

Instead, he takes the Randy Moss route, and takes off plays if he doesn’t have the ball in his hand.

SGA will lead teams to championships. Trae will never play in a conference finals.

1

u/[deleted] Oct 16 '23

He has already played in the conference finals against The Bucks a few years ago.

2

u/MNMastiff Oct 16 '23

My bad. I doubt he’ll make another for reasons listed.

0

u/Thebeavs3 Oct 16 '23

Shai, players get better when they’re young. So yeah he’s only had one all star season cuz he’s young and been on bad teams. Trae started out better sooner but has kinda reached his potential, his size and playstyle kinda put a ceiling on what he can be. Don’t get me wrong that’s still very good but it’s probably like 20th best in the league

2

u/falconhawk2158 Hawks Oct 16 '23

Dude you don’t seem to realize that Trae is younger than shai. That kills your whole already extremely flawed argument

-2

u/Thebeavs3 Oct 16 '23

Not really, trae has reached his potential he can do his little thing putting up numbers in the regular season but won’t get passed the conference finals ever. We’ve never seen heliocentric basketball work on offense and defenseivly I’m not exaggerating he’s literally the worst player in the league, he single handily can lose a series on that end of the court.

1

u/darkslayersparda Oct 16 '23

the comments to up votes ratio is hilarious

basketball is back

-2

u/AashyLarry [MIA] Dwyane Wade Oct 16 '23

SGA but it’s close.

Imagining SGA with that Hawks team instead of OKC is scary.

Overall, I am in the camp that Trae is generally underrated though.

7

u/rimpressure Suns Oct 16 '23

SGA is better but that’s not the argument I’d use lol.

Hawks with SGA don’t scare me just like they don’t scare me with Trae

5

u/falconhawk2158 Hawks Oct 16 '23

I mean if we had beat the bucks the suns still don’t have a championship. And here’s another thing if you put Trae on OKC they win the playin last year. Trae is better but shai is really good as well.

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u/Mal_Swansky Oct 16 '23

If we're talking about regular season, it's close and Trae could very well have the edge. If we're talking about playoffs, I'm taking SGA by a significant margin.

IMO, good defensive teams will be far more likely to neutralize Trae than SGA, who at his size is very hard to stop going to the basket. Plus, it's much harder to build even a decent defense around Trae, whereas there's no reason why you can't be great defensively with SGA.

1

u/NegbombDB Oct 16 '23

How are you going to take SGA by a "significant margin" when he essentially has no post season accolades compared to Trae?

1

u/Mal_Swansky Oct 16 '23

Because for SGA specifically, I am no doubts about how his game translates to playoff basketball.

-1

u/NegbombDB Oct 16 '23

So no objectivity then.

-3

u/moonshadow50 Spurs Oct 16 '23

I don't think the gap, individually, is as big as some are making out - I just think that Shai is a much more useful piece for most teams when it comes to winning playoff basketball.

On 95% of teams, Shai is better.

But if you can build the perfect system, to both accentuate his skills and cover his serious flaws, there is a chance that Trae could perform better. Thats the challenge for Snyder and the Hawks FO.

1

u/falconhawk2158 Hawks Oct 16 '23

I disagree and if I had to choose one of them to win a playoff game or a playin I’m taking Trae 💯 percent of the time. Shai has had one year of elite scoring and Trae has had 4 and Trae has led a team to the playoffs and he’s a better 3 point shooter and just as good a scorer in general. And the difference in playmaking puts Trae in a different category because it’s not close. I’ll give you that shai is a better defender and honestly you would think that he would be a much better rebounder but he actually only averages one rebound more per game. I keep seeing people saying shai has room to grow because of his age while clearly not realizing that he’s older than Trae.

0

u/Tight-Possible-478 Hawks Oct 16 '23 edited Oct 16 '23

He has more potential because he’s taller. Lol the logic makes no sense

Can’t wait for this season so Trae can show these dudes what’s really up in real time. Not potential

0

u/Mephistofeelies Hawks Oct 16 '23

Trae has made it much further in the playoffs than Shai has, despite these "serious flaws" that Trae has. Unless you think dropping 48/11 on the Championship winning Bucks is bad playoff basketball, somehow.

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u/MajorSlimes Celtics Oct 16 '23

Shai and it really is not as close as these comments are making it sound. Shai is on a different tier. He's closer to MVP level than he is to Trae level IMO. People's reputations always lag behind reality for a lot of fans and this is one of those times.

6

u/Cold_Carpenter_1798 Oct 16 '23

MVP level?? Wtf

3

u/falconhawk2158 Hawks Oct 16 '23

Dude he has one season of elite scoring and zero seasons in the playoffs as a number one option. Trae is as good of a scorer and is by far a superior playmaker he’s the better 3 point shooter. And even with those his biggest advantage may be his availability which shai is definitely not known for.

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u/Tight-Possible-478 Hawks Oct 16 '23

That’s funny af for someone who’s only been in the playoffs once out of 5 seasons. Tf kind of MVP misses the playoffs that much

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u/NoLimitSoldier31 Oct 16 '23

I guess people don’t really appreciate what a good year Shai put up. Trae has never had a remotely close season offensively.

21

u/GusBus14 Hawks Oct 16 '23

Trae in 2021 put up 28/10 on 60% ts while leading the second best offense in the league without any other player that could be even considered close to an all star replacement. Let's be serious lol

3

u/falconhawk2158 Hawks Oct 16 '23

And the year before he was 29/9

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u/NoLimitSoldier31 Oct 16 '23

I like Trae a lot but its not 31 on 62.5% TS. Shai’s year last year was insane & not including any defense arguments.

9

u/Cold_Carpenter_1798 Oct 16 '23

Literally brain dead take

14

u/GusBus14 Hawks Oct 16 '23

Yeah, it's not 31 on 62% ts but the small gap in scoring is more than made up for by the larger playmaking gap.

10

u/Happy_Requirement187 Oct 16 '23

Agreed, the way Trae gets easy buckets for his teammates MORE than overcomes a 3 point scoring gap and 2% of TS% efficiency. If this was a 1v1 tournament I’d take Shai, but in a team basketball game the better choice is clearly Trae.

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u/dys0n_giddey Timberwolves Oct 16 '23

Defense matters too tho

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u/Kugo96 West Oct 16 '23

Trae having most points and assists last year is up there,no? Or when he lead his injured team to the ECF ,nah?

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u/Happy_Requirement187 Oct 16 '23

Trae’s second year in the league he put up 29/9 on a team that similarly went nowhere, just like Shai’s. Shai’s career has been mostly mediocre, and he’s had one great year.

5

u/Cold_Carpenter_1798 Oct 16 '23

The irony in the original comment talking about how under appreciated Shias year is. So rich. It apparently is VERY much appreciated to see the takes here. Trae on the other hand is chopped liver I guess

7

u/Happy_Requirement187 Oct 16 '23

Let me know when Shai makes the playoffs and then we can have a conversation. Until then, regular season stats are empty calories

-5

u/jm7121 Thunder Oct 16 '23

Shai. Better leader. Plays defense. Can still expand his game.

Also, he’s had a worse supporting cast but things should really open up with the addition of Chet and another year of team maturity.

6

u/Tight-Possible-478 Hawks Oct 16 '23

Led his team to a play in loss… amazing shit right there.

His stat line from that play in game

5-19 Shooting for 22 PTS and 3 assists plus the L

Trae in his Play in game WIN had 25 PTS on 8-18 shooting and 7 assists

4

u/[deleted] Oct 16 '23

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1

u/Tight-Possible-478 Hawks Oct 16 '23

So what your saying is he isn’t consistent?

2

u/[deleted] Oct 16 '23

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u/Tight-Possible-478 Hawks Oct 16 '23 edited Oct 16 '23

Most definitely. Even with those horrible numbers Trae put up last year this is their career averages in the playoffs.

Shai - 15.1 PPG; 3.7 APG; 4.1 RPG

Trae - 26.4 PPG; 9.0 APG; 3.7 RPG

Levels to this shit my man

Is Shai the only player ever to put up 48 PTS and 11 assists in his first Conference Finals game? For a win on the road against the eventual champs??Oh that’s right Shai’s never been passed the first round

0

u/[deleted] Oct 16 '23

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u/Tight-Possible-478 Hawks Oct 16 '23

So he was so good his first year that the team who drafted him decided to trade him away plus multiple firsts just to improve their team? So good that the Thunder went straight to tanking for 3 straight years after making the playoffs with him and Chris Paul.

Teams like the Hawks and Mavs expedited their rebuilds because of the talents Luka and Trae are. They didn’t go backwards. You can’t say the same for Shai

Don’t try to discount what I’m saying with some bullshit.

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u/[deleted] Oct 16 '23

Gotta admit I've never heard of Shai until this off season. I just had to look up what team he was even on.

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u/[deleted] Oct 16 '23

ESPN rankings and any other "rankings" mean nothing. It's just a media thing.

But SGA is obviously better than Trae. He also has a much higher potential, to be even better.

He's a 6'7 PG who's already an ELITE and super efficient scorer. He's also a good playmaker and decent defender. Mismatch

0

u/falconhawk2158 Hawks Oct 16 '23

He has one year of Elite scoring one. Trae has multiple seasons. In a discussion about who’s better and why saying a guy that has career averages of 21/4 is better than someone with career averages of 25/9 while intimating that shai is elite but Trae isn’t is hilarious. And then you say he’s a good playmaker while averaging 4 assists a game Trae is literally over twice the playmaker. And then you add in that Trae has played 353 games to shai 311 and that’s not including the playoffs which shai has never led a team to as a number one. If Trae was on OKC last year they win that playin game.

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u/[deleted] Oct 16 '23 edited Oct 16 '23

Probably Shai. I like Trae more than him but Shai is better right now

edit: I got swag ay

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u/[deleted] Oct 16 '23

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10

u/noknownothing Oct 16 '23

I mean Trae has gotten a lot closer to a championship than SGA

4

u/Cold_Carpenter_1798 Oct 16 '23

Ah the old “it’s not particularly close” adage. Great contribution