r/parkrun • u/TheLifeCapoeira v25 • 2d ago
Wear a pride flag at your next event!
I won’t link to the Daily Mail, but a friend sent me a link which details the tranaphobes have set up a running club to join as a protest against trans runners (Reality Rules Runners UK). I wonder how many who register for this will have no runs or volunteer credits to there name a month on?
Anyway, let’s all wear pride flags and show our support and solidarity to the LGBTQ+ community at our next events.
EDIT: A really simply way to show your support is the rainbow laces, which I wasn’t aware of before. Thnaks to those that pointed them out https://www.stonewall.org.uk/get-involved/support-us/rainbow-laces
EDIT 2: Also to be clear, what I wasn’t clear about was what I meant by a pride flag. By all means wear one as a cape if you wish, I just meant the image - I don’t have an actual pride flag, but a t shirt with it on which is what I’ll wear this Saturday (and my rainbow laces if they arrive in time)
EDIT 3: A follow up post as many people don’t seem to appreciate this.
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u/IncorrigibleBrit 50 2d ago
Groups like that want to provoke a reaction, it allows them to claim they’re forcing the debate and opens up even more media coverage. In other words, attention seeking.
Engaging with it is what they want; you’ll be far more successful in the long run simply ignoring them, letting them get bored, and moving onto something else.
It is just a Saturday morning run in the park and enjoy that I do not have to know, or care, about the political views of anybody else showing up. I’m sure my local has people that will vote for all of the major political parties, and a handful (unnecessarily in my view) exercise their right to free expression wearing clothing expressing some of those views, but in such a polarised and divided society, I enjoy not having to care about what “doing parkrun” might be seen to say about me politically.
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u/Ok-Professional7879 20h ago
However, as a trans person who is directly negatively affected by TERF bigotry, it actually means one hell of a lot to know I'm safe in a given group. Not just parkrun, anywhere. Seeing people with pride flag badges, etc, makes me feel safe at an event that otherwise I might not feel able to attend. Obviously do what you want. But if people at my local even did something as simple as rainbow laces or a trans flag "safe with me" t-shirt or badge or hat I would probably fucking cry with relief.
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u/Zingalamuduni 2d ago
We still have a middle-aged woman who occasionally turns up in a “Bring Back The Stats” T-shirt. I don’t think anyone else there even notices - that type forgets that no one else gives a shit so doesn’t even get what they’re on about.
I think the same is true here: “Reality Rules” is sufficiently obscure that no one else will know what it means. So, as long as they don’t start making a fuss about what they stand for, I think they will just be ignored.
If they do start with any trans-phobic shit at my parkrun (I’m an ED), I’ll be more than happy to grab the Tannoy and do an impromptu explanation in advance of the pre-run briefing.
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u/DeeGee262 v250 1d ago
We've got rules on this.
What if the event can proceed safely despite the presence of a protest or demonstration?
If the event is safe to go ahead, the Run Director should:
Ask the campaigners/demonstrators not to approach participants directly or hand out leaflets to individuals. In the first-timers and pre-event briefings, inform all participants that parkrun is not associated with the campaign/demonstration. Be respectful to the campaigners/demonstrators as they will normally have a right to conduct their activities peacefully on public land. Log an incident after the event with as much information as possible.
What should we do if someone tries to use parkrun to campaign?
If a candidate or campaign group turns up to parkrun and attempts to actively use the event as a campaigning platform, please politely inform them that as a charity we cannot and do not endorse any form of campaigning at our events. Please also log an incident in EMS so we can follow up on your behalf.
If you become aware of planned campaigning at parkrun events, please contact us at eventsupport and we will work with you to resolve the situation.
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u/Zingalamuduni 2d ago
Having just googled, the only mentions online are from GBNews, Daily Mail, Daily Express, X (amusingly, the Mail journalists own account pushing her own article) and a Facebook page. I’m not clicking on those first four as I’m not giving them the traffic, but I might have a look at the comments on that Facebook page if it’s a public one.
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u/RobCarrol75 1d ago
I saw the Daily Mail article. It was full of so much misinformation to be laughable. It refers to Parkrunners as "competitors" and seems to imply that women are missing out on "ranking points" as a result of men "winning" the women's category. Quotes an anonymous source from Reality Runners UK and the only comment from a "Parkrunner" is in favour of the mystery group.
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u/adamgeekboy 1d ago
It also suggests that Parkrun are doing something illegal by allowing trans women to compete in the female category which is just patently untrue.
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u/laidback_chef 1d ago
You can still earn revenue through clicks on facebook. If the only mention of it is those absolute shit stain rags this is 100% not going to happen. At best youd get 4 blokes who will turn up realise its a parkrun and then ho home never to be seen again.
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u/generichandel 2d ago
One of my favourite things about parkrun is that it isn't politicised. What if we just ignore the nutjobs rather than play the game they're trying to start?
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u/crabcrabcam 2d ago
Because ignoring them doesn't help when they turn up.
If I turn up to my next parkrun and there's people there saying I shouldn't be, and the team does nothing about it then sure as shit I'm never going back.Now, I have faith in the team at my local, but I don't have faith that a decent number of core teams will have a few transphobic members.
Wearing a small thing that shows queer folk you think they should be allowed to exist means a lot to us.
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u/verzweifeltundmuede 2d ago
Exactly this. You can't claim to be welcoming if you don't stand up for every runner's right to take part. There is no neutrality in the face of bigotry.
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u/IncorrigibleBrit 50 2d ago edited 1d ago
I don’t think it is fair to expect core teams to police the expression of (lawful) views at parkrun, and I also don’t think they practically can.
I can understand why seeing people with (e.g.) ‘gender critical’ slogans on shirts might be upsetting, but those are lawful views for them to hold and express. That is something outside of Parkrun’s control, and if we start getting into restricting views it is a Pandora’s box.
Reform UK sell football shirts with “Farage 10” on the back; doubtless somebody running in one of those might make other runners uncomfortable, is the core team expected to ban those? I’ve personally seen people running in Palestine shirts that depict the whole territory as one Palestinian country; doubtless that will upset others, is that something for the core team to prohibit? Vegan shirts saying “meat is murder” will upset some people; do we ban those?
You may think that some or all of those examples aren’t the same thing, but that’s the point. Once you set the precedent that upsetting, but lawful, views can be banned, the core teams will have to make those judgements again and again - including for some sensitive and highly nuanced issues.
And while a core team could feasibly restrict results for those running, every parkrun in a public space emphasises that it does not have sole use of the park. Using the park at 9am is not taking part in parkrun and these views are lawful to express in the United Kingdom. There’s absolutely nothing stopping such groups holding placards near the course if they wanted, and nothing that an RD could do about it.
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u/EmPhil95 1d ago
The difference is seeing people with anti-trans slogans on their shirts in isolation, vs seeing people with anti-trans slogans AND also seeing people with pride gear on.
Parkrun obviously can't police it, no one is saying that they should, but if people are also at the event in pride gear it feels a lot more welcoming for queer people.
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u/Glittering_Hope1114 1d ago
Why do transphobes have to shove their obsession into everything. Bet most don't even know any trans people. This is the problem with wealthy boomers who spend most days reading "news". Most trans people are leaving the country anyway so what's is going to be next??
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u/crabcrabcam 2d ago
There is something an RD can do about it, as someone who has a duty to make sure parkrunners are safe they can at the very least politely tell the transphobes to fuck off.
If nobody is willing to say anything to the people telling me I'm not welcome, then I'll just have to assume I'm not welcome.
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u/Loud_Fisherman_5878 1d ago
Exactly. I’m not trans but I am shocked at the lack of empathy and amount of privilege here where people are saying you don’t need to think about politics at a parkrun.
If you don’t mind helping me, is there any particular symbol/ item that would help you to see in the crowd? Just wondering if little badges or trans flag laces would be visible enough? I am in an lgbt running group so usually wearing their very rainbowy running shirt but would something more specifically trans help (as unfortunately it probably is that not all the LGB community is fully supportive so a rainbow alone might not help)?
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u/Abject-Plankton4620 1d ago
Has anyone asked trans people what they would like done? In my experience the trans folk I know just want to turn up somewhere, do their thing and go home. I’m not sure other people making a bigger deal than they think it is, is really very helpful for many trans folk. If I saw an anti demonstration, I’d confront it, if I saw an individual being upset, I’d intervene. But making many more people feel uncomfortable by politicising ParkRun seems a very silly step and would just make a bigger issue that at the moment seems to be a very, very few idiots looking for attention
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u/WannaBeeUltra 1d ago
There are some “activists” who maintain lists of trans parkrunners on social media, and cyber stalk them. I won’t link to it as it’s extremely unpleasant, but I think we’re possibly past the “ignore it and it’ll go away” stage.
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u/Abject-Plankton4620 1d ago
Can you link it?
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u/WannaBeeUltra 1d ago
I won’t link to the specific tweets as it feels like an invasion of the privacy of those targeted, but one of the organisations is called “He Cheated”, and the posts were on X/twitter.
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u/stretch696 1d ago
You're using PR as your own personal political tool to fight against what you perceive to be an injustice. Leave politics out of PR, people go to these to forget about that crap
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u/HeartyBeast 250 2d ago
If I turn up to my next parkrun and there's people there saying I shouldn't be, and the team does nothing about it then sure as shit I'm never going back.
If that happens at my next Parkrun you can be sure as shit that I'll be wading in. But it hasn't
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u/Beneficial_Coach8581 1d ago
I thought ignoring them was better than getting involved with them. They're like spoilt children and want a reaction. Even better if they can film it. Absolutely blanking these nutjobs will infuriate them and make them feel impotent?
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u/DrSarahSlaughter 2d ago
Who's saying anyone shouldn't exist? I thought the suggestion was that everyone take part, but also that everyone just enters themselves under the correct age/sex category?
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u/phauxbert v100 1d ago
there are no sex categories at parkrun, just gender ones.
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u/est-elle778 23h ago
Why do we need gender categories in a sporting activity?
It makes sense to have sex categories as males have well documented advantages over females in running.
Gender is such a nebulous concept. It has as much value as asking what’s your favourite colour.
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u/oldcat 2d ago
Being inclusive of everyone isn't politicising parkrun. Everyone is welcome at parkrun and that's what these people are trying to change. If we don't stand up for the basic principle of parkrun is for everyone we lose the whole point of parkrun.
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u/zwifter11 1d ago
You can be inclusive of everyone without waving a flag. Simply turn up and run. Nobody is stopping you.
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u/TheLifeCapoeira v25 2d ago
Because the transphobes are well funded and actively attacking parkrun right now. Let’s show our support for inclusivity and not bigotry. Silence is complicity
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u/zwifter11 1d ago
Out of every parkrun I’ve done in the last 4 years. All across the UK and some on mainland Europe. I haven’t seen one transphobe attacking parkrun or stopping anyone from running.
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u/royalbluestuey v100 2d ago
I'm not sure that's true.
If i turn up and there's a small group agitating for divisiveness I just ignore them and turn inwards to the inclusivity of the main community thus rejecting the divisiveness and isolating this trying to divide.
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u/TheLifeCapoeira v25 2d ago
If I were to turn up to find a group of bigots, I’d do my best to try and make their targets feel welcome and to make sure they were ok. I’d want to show the bigots that their bigotry isn’t acceptable, but you do you.
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u/royalbluestuey v100 2d ago
I'll be choosing inclusivity by ignoring and rejecting those demanding division.
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u/Loud_Fisherman_5878 1d ago
If I was a trans person I’m not sure I would feel that comforted by everyone just ignoring them. When someone gets racistly abused (something I know more about from my own experiences), the fact that everyone around them says nothing doesn’t make them feel like everyone is ignoring the racist twat to show solidarity, it just makes the victim feel like no one is on their side and that no one is going to help them if things get violent.
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u/Sea-Badgers 2d ago
Silence isnt complicity. Stop bullying people into doing what you want them to do. If people dont want to something let them choose. Am I a homophobe, absolutely not. Will I be wearing a pride flag, absolutely not. Keep identity politics out of the park run.
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u/TheLifeCapoeira v25 2d ago
In what way am I being a bully? Do you disagree with the statement that “All that is needed for evil to succeed is good people to do nothing”?
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u/Kwolfe2703 2d ago
You are basically saying that “if you don’t support MY WORLD VIEW and explicitly show it then you are a Nazi”
Honestly I’d much prefer that parkrun simply adopts what they used to do in France and just list people alphabetically. No one “wins” so gender is irrelevant and everyone can go back to enjoying their time trial.
If you want a race - go book a race using whatever method of gender identity that allows
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u/TheLifeCapoeira v25 2d ago
That’s not what I’m saying though. We have a group of people actively bringing bigotry into parkrun. They are a minority, yes, but they are still present. By actively showing our support for the inclusivity of parkrun we are taking a stand against this bigotry. If you don’t want to take such a stand, well fine, but all that’s needed for evil to succeed is good people to do nothing. “First they came” and all that
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u/generichandel 2d ago
Is participating in park run not implicit support for it's inclusive nature? If I was against it's inclusive nature, I would not participate in it.
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u/TheLifeCapoeira v25 1d ago
Clearly not because we have tranaphobic parkrunners actively being transphobic. And they can influence things - remember when the gender, course and age records were removed in response to a previous tranaphobic attack?
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u/Kwolfe2703 1d ago
We have a group of people upset because parkrun still allows people to self identify as any gender and receive the “perks” of that gender. In this case being ranked amongst athletes assigned as a woman at birth who are registered as a woman athlete.
As we all know transgender competition in sports is complicated. It’s complicated further because in theory at least parkrun is not a race. However the theory falls down whilst parkrun still ranks people in positions and still has rankings by gender.
The loosely “accepted” position amongst most sports is that an athlete who has gone through male puberty cannot compete with those who have not.
parkrun does not appear to go along with this position despite there being an argument that this is the law of the land in the UK following the high court ruling.
Sadly this has led to this situation where people are mad at parkrun for still allowing athletes who have gone through male puberty to “compete” with those that have not.
I don’t think calling those people bigots because their world view differs to yours and telling people that don’t wear a rainbow badge that they are complicit via silence is the best strategy.
Question for you - would it matter if parkrun just removed gender categories altogether? It’s not a race so why should it matter?
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u/ApparentlyAtticus 1d ago
“perks” of that gender. In this case being ranked amongst athletes assigned as a woman at birth who are registered as a woman athlete.
Theres no "perks" because there's no winners. Unless you know something that we don't.
As we all know transgender competition in sports is complicated. It’s complicated further because in theory at least parkrun is not a race. However the theory falls down whilst parkrun still ranks people in positions and still has rankings by gender.
Parkrun states why they do this - so you can compare yourself - it's all on the website.
Sadly this has led to this situation where people are mad at parkrun for still allowing athletes who have gone through male puberty to “compete” with those that have not.
It's not a competition and if you're getting mad about people identifying how they want to, as per the rules, then that's a situation TERFS created. Not parkrun.
I don’t think calling those people bigots
If you have a problem with someone identifying as the gender they feel most comfortable as identifying in, in parkrun, a non-competitive event, as per the rules, and want those rules changed to remove their ability to do that, you are in fact, a bigot.
Question for you - would it matter if parkrun just removed gender categories altogether? It’s not a race so why should it matter?
Parkrun has stated many times they leave this information so you can check personal progression "if that's what you want".
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u/Kwolfe2703 1d ago
Your argument makes no sense as it’s seems to be arguing two things.
On one side you are saying “no perks as no winners” and on the other side you are stating that the gender classification is essential to allow for comparison?
So either being 1/50 female runners on a day matters or it doesn’t? Or being able to compare your times across age groups within your gender matters or it doesn’t?
If it doesn’t matter because it’s not a competition so comparisons are meaningless then remove gender completely. Heck removing rankings completely as it’s you vs you so why are we listing who came first?
If it matters then why shouldn’t parkrun adopt the same gender policy as other sports?
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u/ApparentlyAtticus 1d ago edited 1d ago
All that information is there for personal progression “if that’s what you want”. I’m not arguing anything. I’m literally taking information directly from their website.
So please explain what “perks” trans people are getting from a non competitive run where you are racing against yourself where there are no winners.
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u/Sea-Badgers 2d ago
By suggesting silence is complicity. When in reality most people just want to go for a run! Do you honestly think that very basic and simplistic quote is in anyway related to the park run?
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u/fleufelbirb 2d ago
Save this energy for the transphobes! Maybe tell them to stop bullying people into doing what they want them to do. Whilst you're at it tell them to keep identity politics out of parkrun seeing as they're the ones bringing it into it
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u/Sea-Badgers 2d ago
Sorry if my non complicity has offended you. I just go to run. Im not going to be doing anything other than that. I will not be dragged into anything else. Can you understand that most people want to just turn up run and go home?
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u/Glittering_Hope1114 1d ago
No one is forcing you to wear a pride shirt and you are not oppressed by trans people despite what the daily mail says. Rowling, murdoch and politicians though actually are likely to fundamentally change things because they will sue anyone who doesn't do what they want and they are always looking for more anti trans meat for grinder. Without it what would this country even be at this point?
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u/generichandel 2d ago
There it is. Now, by going for a run in a park without a badge that someone else decided I need to wear on, I am now somehow "complicit" in someone else's discomfort.
That, right there, is why I really love that parkrun is apolitical. This toxicity gets into everything it touches.
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u/No_Possibility1747 2d ago
Will parkrun ban the transphobic running club out of an interest in keeping politics out of parkrun, then? Should it?
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u/generichandel 2d ago
It absolutely should, yes, because a community morning run isn't the stage on which politics should play out. As to whether it will, I dont know, I'm just a runner.
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u/TheLifeCapoeira v25 2d ago
All that’s need for evil to succeed is for good people to do nothing. There is no neutral stance in something like this. Bigots are attacking parkrun, you ignore the bigots at your cost. See the Nazi bar story as an example https://www.reddit.com/r/bartenders/s/6bLZnUabX7
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u/generichandel 2d ago
Why do I need to wear a badge to identify myself as a "good person?"
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u/TheLifeCapoeira v25 2d ago
It’s not about identifying yourself as a good person, it’s about showing LGBTQ+ parkrunners that they are welcome.
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u/generichandel 2d ago
That is implicit, in that those protesting their inclusion in parkrun, are by definition, not participating in parkrun.
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u/Loud_Fisherman_5878 1d ago
Because it isn’t about you, it is about making the targets of these cunts feel safe.
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u/generichandel 1d ago
If it isn't about me why do I have to wear a badge?
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u/Loud_Fisherman_5878 1d ago
It’s an easy thing to do that could make a huge difference to someone who might need it. But you don’t have to. Who said you did?
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u/generichandel 1d ago
I resent the implication that I am somehow a bigot for not wearing one, is all.
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u/Glittering_Hope1114 2d ago
You underestimate just how much power these people have. They cancelled all trans healthcare in Wales because one person wanted it overnight while sending people links to a suicide line. They will get their way I guarantee it they literally win everytime because the scapegoating of trans people is literally the number one priority of the government right now.
I mean to be fair park run is a very small thing truthfully trans people are already are leaving the country regardless this is just another thing they thought about to bully people on. But ultimately yeah the fact that no one ever actually stood up to this stuff is the reason why Britain is now rated only just above Russia and frankly Britain is still in free fall. Its why Britain is famous for its level of hatred because sure its one thing to have a newsmedia and politicians pushing lies but nobody calls them out.
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u/GenericUserName437 1d ago
All trans healthcare in wales has not been cancelled due to one person. Clinical leaders in Wales have noted that the rate of referral to gender clinics in Wales is 4 times higher than in England and have paused referrals while they look into what is clearly a statistically anomaly. If a GP or hospital had a death rate four times higher than normal wouldn’t you expect clinical leaders to investigate that?
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u/Glittering_Hope1114 1d ago
You have succeeded in making us leave Britain but now you wish to pretend otherwise. I will tell anyone who will listen. People should get backbone you think texas or Russia do this? Nah they are honest what's the problem with just being honest?
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u/Glittering_Hope1114 1d ago
They literally cancelled it all overnight. Sorry but thats insane and no other healthcare would work like that. Imagine cancelling all cancer treatment in a country overnight for a review? The fact they sent links to a suicide hotline makes it clear they knew what they were doing. Imagine just blanket cancelling any other healthcare. All because its quicker then the English service which it literally DECADES. It still took years for the clinics to see people in Wales.
Just be honest. Admit that you trying to end trans healthcare. All these lies are disgusting. Just be honest.
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u/adamgeekboy 2d ago
Parkrun is non-competitive so why the hell does it matter if you're beaten by a trans woman? Or for that matter, a man, woman, dog or small child?
It's outrage for the sake of outrage.
It's also ignoring the fact that what the supreme court ruling says is that (despicably) you can exclude trans people not that you must and parkrun is not a single-sex space.
So basically, they are bell ends whose campaign should not be given the oxygen the Daily Hate Mail will feed it.
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u/GenericUserName437 1d ago
If Parkrun is non competitive why does it publish the finish order of participants?
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u/funbicorn 1d ago
Believe it or not, people want to know what their own times and percentages are for for self improvement.
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u/GenericUserName437 1d ago
So send each individual their own time by email & don’t let them know their finish position or publish the results. Would you agree to that?
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u/3rdslip v50 1d ago
Because that’s just how it’s done. If you’re unhappy about it, start your own 5k event series.
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u/Icy-Kitchen-1291 23h ago
If we're going to truly achieve equality then we shouldn't wear the flags and instead just blend in with the rest. This way we can prove for once and for all that we are equal.
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u/SmilingJaguar v100 1d ago
I’m a straight older dude, but gladly accepted the offer of rainbow makeup at a parkrun near San Francisco during Pride.
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u/fleufelbirb 2d ago
Hey OP, love the sentiment :) if you want to show your support every run look into the rainbow laces campaign https://www.stonewall.org.uk/get-involved/support-us/rainbow-laces
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u/Little_Badger525 2d ago
The amount of people here saying that it's "best to ignore them" or "parkrun isn't political" are completely missing the point.
If you don't want to run with a pride themed item, don't. This post clearly isn't for you. It's for people like me who didn't realise this group existed, and will now make a special effort to show my support for LGBTQ+ folks at my parkrun.
These loons are using parkrun as a political football. Openly supporting LGBTQ+ individuals at parkrun is saying "no I won't let you weaponise this free, non-competetive, non-political event". It also reminds people that there are folks at parkrun who want them there, when they are repeatedly being told that they don't belong.
Thank you for your post OP! Off to buy my stonewall rainbow laces 🫶
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u/Still-Butterscotch33 2d ago
I think you'll find most just want to go for a run rather than make political statements. On both sides.
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u/oldcat 2d ago
If someone wanted to make a category if person that you fall into feel unwelcome at parkrun would you not want people to stand up for you and say you are welcome? It's fine to not want to do that, your choice, but to "both sides" this at parkrun specifically where one side is trying to make a specific group feel unwelcome and the other is saying parkrun is for everyone is to completely miss the point of parkrun. We've had people hounding individuals online for taking part in parkrun using the results pages and you think that's the same as "everyone is welcome at parkrun"? Weird take.
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u/Ok_Light_7227 2d ago
Inclusivity is a core value of parkrun. Supporting trans people against those who want them excluded is just reaffirming that value.
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u/FuroreFury 1d ago
Don’t they just want them to enter under their correct sex ?
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u/Ok-Professional7879 20h ago
Fyi, a trans man on testosterone has roughly the same athletic potential of a cis man of his age, height and fitness. A trans woman on oestrogen has a similar athletic potential to a cis woman of her age, height and fitness.
This if you want to force trans women to enter as male, you will also have to force trans men to enter as female. And this would almost guarantee there would then be trans men who look like men and sound like men and say they are men winning the female category.
What TERFs actually want is for us to not participate in public life. Because either way we cannot win.
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u/FuroreFury 19h ago
The been proven that a trans woman taking estrogen doesn’t impact their athletic performance that much but if they were also to run in high heels we could maybe have that discussion
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u/Loud_Fisherman_5878 1d ago
Yeah, the other day I passed a man beating up a granny but I ignored it because I just wanted to go out for a run.
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u/TheLifeCapoeira v25 2d ago
This is clearly not true. The transphobes are out for making parkrun less inclusive. They are actively doing this, are funded by billionaires, and getting headlines in the right wing press. It doesn’t need to be a bold statement, I have a t shirt with the inclusive pride flag and I shall run in it. All that is needed for evil to succeed is good people to do nothing.
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u/FuroreFury 22h ago
Dogs run in Parkrun All the woman’s rights organisations are asking is for fairness in the woman’s category anyone not a woman can run in other categories, it’s not even segregation by sex alone but also different age groups no one is saying it’s not inclusive to have an under 10s group everyone knows including that group explicitly for children under 10 gives them a fair competition and encourages a sense of achievement Why can’t woman have the same thing ?
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u/TheLifeCapoeira v25 21h ago
Because transwomen are women and it is transphobic to exclude them. If you look at the data, cis athetes on balance do better than trans athletes too. Also, given the ties that many transphobic organisations have to limiting things like birth control, they are not womens’ rights organisations.
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u/Smooth-Ad2293 21h ago
How will this be policed?
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u/FuroreFury 20h ago
I don’t know we have always relied upon honesty but men love cheating I guess when we know that men are openly cheating and are proud of it we erase their records from the results
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u/GenericUserName437 1d ago
Or they are out to make Parkrun fair. You can either have fairness or inclusion. If the female category is to be fair there has to be limits as to who can be included in it.
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u/kinkakinka 1d ago
Parkrun is already fair. You arr timed. You get a time. You are allowed to participate at your own ability. The end.
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u/TheLifeCapoeira v25 1d ago
Transwomen are women, it is fair and inclusive to have them in the female category. The transphobes themselves are saying there have been nearly 300 cases of trans women beating cis women (my emphasis) since the parkrun began. There have been over a million parkruns. That’s less than 0.03% of the results, orders of magnitude below the proportion of trans women in the population. If anything this data shows ciswomen have the edge
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u/Smooth-Ad2293 21h ago
How would you police such a policy?
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u/GenericUserName437 17h ago
How do you police the age categories? You start by saying ‘these are the people eligible for this category’. So do that with the sex category.
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u/Smooth-Ad2293 17h ago
Parkrun don't police age categories.
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u/GenericUserName437 16h ago
When you register you are asked to submit your date of birth. Not the age you identify as, but your actual age. That’s the starting point, that all entrants honestly enter their age/date of birth.
Currently there is a long click through on ‘gender’ explaining that this category is not based on sex but identity. The campaign is to have this long explanation removed and for the category to be based on sex (with a prefer not to say option).
The starting point would then be that entrants honestly enter their sex or register as ‘prefer not to say’.
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u/Smooth-Ad2293 15h ago
And you're also asked to give your gender.. trans people quite rightly give their gender.. and shouldn't have to be outed every time they want to do a Parkrun.
The campaign is ludicrous... Mainly because (as you've proven) it's totally unworkable, cannot be policed, and will harm all women.
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u/GenericUserName437 15h ago
Campaigners want to see a change so you are asked for either your sex (or whether you decline to give your sex). That’s literally what the campaign is asking for. No one would be outed as no one would be obliged to declare their sex. It’s totally workable, just as the age/date of birth section currently works even though no one is required to bring their birth certificate to Parkrun.
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u/endurancerideruk 1d ago
parkrun is not a competition. If it was, it would not be a fair one for anyone:
- No drug testing, and participants can run under the influence of whatever they want
- No meaningful way of banning anyone who is either norty at parkrun or in other sporting organisations
- No one checking how many loops of the course anyone did
- No age checking
- No pre registration or ID checks
- No checking that individuals are even running with the correct bar code.
It's inclusive and fun and informal and open to anyone and it probably has saved my life. Long may it continue. If it were a proper competition, I probably wouldn't have started doing it.
TBH, if this pressure continues all I can see is the gender categories being removed altogether, and then it becomes a simple mass participation event with no gender split at all - which is absolutely allowed under the EHRC guidance. And this would put women in a worse situation.
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u/Zingalamuduni 2d ago
“Both sides”? Really?
When one “side” is literally there making a political statement?
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u/KingDebone 2d ago
It isn't about politics. It's about love and hate. If you want to allow hate to infiltrate your park run then that's really sad.
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u/laidback_chef 1d ago
Yeah op is just the orher side of the same coin. Pride was at parkrun this year and after a few of the older generation had a small grumble but youd expect that. Ultimately out of 500 runners no one gave a shit because we were all there to run and go home. Except me I decided to meet some friends there and get drunk in the heat.
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u/Still-Butterscotch33 1d ago
Ironic isn't it. Doing the same as what they're moaning about but convinced they have the moral high ground so it's ok. (And before the pile on starts I'm not commenting on the rightness and wrongness, just that parkrun isn't the platform for it).
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u/TheLifeCapoeira v25 1d ago
“First they came for…” and all that. Transphobes don’t just have trans people in their sights, they’re targeting womens’ health care too. Just look at JKR’s friends https://youtu.be/Ou_xvXJJk7k?is=X5EU3Y-JrsW_8-Nj
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u/FuroreFury 1d ago
Parkrun is for everyone and the records are a fun way to allow a little competition into the event the stats are not just sex based but also age based and it wouldn’t hurt anyone for trans people to have their own category you would be top every single run
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u/oldcat 1d ago
I'm going to hope you're just trying to be reasonable here and this is in good faith. The stats are nonsense anyway. Lots of people signed their kids up when they were too young to get a barcode so had to pretend they were older. With any drop down on a form a percentage will select an answer that isn't what they intended. We don't need to care as we aren't competitive. People can enter whatever they like.
It makes zero real difference to a person if they are one higher in their category or not. If someone is really hung up on this they are looking at parkrun for a competitive event rather than what we are which is a regular timed 5k. If people can't understand that then we should just do away with those stats. It's the only realistic solution but it would, as with the last stats removed,.diminish the experience for some folk to remove them so personally I wouldn't.
Fundamentally we have 6 million participants signed up world wide. There is no way to police categories and people will sign up in whatever one they want to (or the wrong one because they screwed it up). The only suggestion we have from these campaigners is their idea which is personally bullying people they believe are trans and do parkruns. That isnt acceptable and shows their real intent.
If you think it's unfair, campaign to remove the categories not to separate trans people from everyone else and have the labelled on a public page that could put them at risk.
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u/FuroreFury 1d ago
Ok so I’m a regular park run runner, I started off very slow and gradually worked my way up running against my own personal best but also in a competition against other females in my age group and seeing yourself in the top ten in the female category is a real boost in confidence , yes it was a winter day when the competition wasn’t its strongest but it was a personal achievement I was proud of
It is all an honesty based there are no legal barriers passport or birth certificates needed it is fun but it’s also fun based on the competition ( if that’s what you want!)
Reading that men are running under both categories male and female and one man has won his park run under the female category over a hundred times seems so weird to me that he will do that
Seems instead of the natural response being what a cheat it’s of let’s drop the competition bit altogether in case that man might be transgender Woman are getting shafted all over the place→ More replies (3)
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u/Intelligent-Lock-896 18h ago
Or why doesn't everyone just run in their correct sex category and get on with their lives. Some people like to see where they place compared to others in the same sex/age category. We don't let 20 year olds "identify" in to 60+ category do we.
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u/Nervous-Material-197 1d ago
As a trans runner, thank you for this. These small acts of solidarity are what it’s all about.
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u/Ok-Professional7879 19h ago
💪🏼 same. I wish someone at my local would even do rainbow laces. Id feel so much more welcome
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u/Outside_Song_1336 1d ago
There's a lot of debate here... I think just a little subtle show of solidarity sometimes (like wearing rainbow laces) might make one person feel far more comfortable - or even feel able to approach you as an ally if someone else makes them feel uncomfortable. I'm not gonna wear a huge pride flag as a cape to parkrun, but I always wear my rainbow laces just to show people that they are welcome here and safe around me.
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u/zwifter11 1d ago
No I won’t be politicising Parkrun.
Parkrun should remain apolitical.
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u/TheLifeCapoeira v25 1d ago
But parkrun is political already. It’s a free, inclusive run. And transphobes are seeking to undermine its inclusive nature, and we should stop that
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u/zwifter11 22h ago
I haven’t seen one transphobe at any parkrun. Or any sign of disruption.
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u/hull-fit50 1d ago
I got the impression it was a female organised group that wanted to make sport fair for those born females to compete against those born females, and those born male to compete against those born male.
It appears there are a few that identify as female that want to take the first place record at every park run they do, whilst benefitting from the biological sporting benefits that come with being born male. Many of these competitors have also been found to be registered as male for competitive races over longer distances, during the same years as registering female for park run.
The law is clear that all sports in the UK, it is the sex they are born as that they have to compete under.
What will probably happen is park run will remove sex categories, so you won't have any idea how you're doing compared to others in your category, which would be a shame. It will probably undermine the good progress that park run has been responsible for in getting more women involved in sporting activity
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u/emilycharlotte1 1d ago
I think, judging by general public opinion on sex based rights, most people will agree with these protestors if they had to choose/ it becomes a bigger issue.
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u/FuroreFury 1d ago
Show support for woman and set up a trans category
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u/ApparentlyAtticus 1d ago
OR trans people can continue to use the category they’ve been using for literal years (it’s been gender on for online form since at least 2009) before the transphobes showed up.
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u/jacob_red 1d ago
Well... parkrun does not check if what you entered is true, so why this should matter? I am pretty sure that there will be people that select different gender just for fun.
I wonder if the solution to this whole situation can be made into a joke. Let's remove gender, and create "avatar" field. There will be four avatars: man, woman, alien, snowman.
You select one and you are in this category. It's not gender... while everyone knows it is... but then again you have no gender in your profile so... problem solved?
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u/Ok_Comfortable_7114 1d ago
I dont want politics to be part of anything I do including parkrun. So no thanks!
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u/TheLifeCapoeira v25 1d ago
That isn’t a positition that it’s actually possible to take. Given its inclusive nature parkrun is inherently political and why transphobes are targeting it. Politics affects all of life, and you can put your head in the sand if you like, but in so doing you are affectively on the side of the transphobes. They are targeting parkrun and your indifference, if everyone followed it, would allow them to flourish. It wouldn’t stop with just the trans community
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u/Ok_Comfortable_7114 1d ago
Actually it is possible as it is my position. I do not care about rubbish like this and never will and actually is a fact
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u/Ok-Professional7879 19h ago
You are not isolated from politics, you are on the side of the oppressors by failing to act against their bigotry.
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u/TheLifeCapoeira v25 1d ago
You may think that you are isolated from politics, but to interact with the world is to have politics interact with you
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u/Efficient-County2382 1d ago
Absolutely not, why are you trying to ruin what is one of the most friendly and welcoming initiatives on the planet?
Literally nobody gives a shit who you are at a parkrun, people are universally friendly. Just do your run and enjoy it.
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u/Ok-Professional7879 19h ago
As a trans person, any space these days that isn't explicitly trans-inclusive cannot be assumed to be so. Sorry. To you it may seem friendly and welcoming but for me it's an unknown, just like most public events, and intimidating because of that.
If I saw someone with pride gear it would help massively to reassure me that yes, everyone does truly mean everyone here, when so often lately it means everyone except me.
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u/UltraShortRun 1d ago
You’re just becoming as pathetic as they are, organising to combat on their level instead of actually supporting real LGBT issues
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u/TheLifeCapoeira v25 1d ago
Really? I’m just advocating for wearing a t shirt or some laces. In what way is this the same? It doesn’t stop bigots from running, but it does help our LGBTQ+ community feel safer, as attested by their supportive comments here
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u/coastalpathfinder 250 1d ago
I normally wear toe socks but think it would be nice to wear rainbow socks for parkrun? It's a tiny little thing, but what do we reckon?
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u/TheLifeCapoeira v25 1d ago
Do it! I’ll be getting the rainbow laces so I always have that little bit of solidarity
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u/Y3w4n 2d ago
The beauty of parkrun is that we are running alongside people of all sorts of different race, ethnicity, sexuality, backgrounds, all there plodding or running or walking the same 5k, with the same goal but for very different reasons.
What if for the sake of argument, someone agree with their essential premise that one cannot change sex?
They can still run alongside them.
Your essential premise is that one should wear pride stuff to show support. But that encouragement itself is polarising.
I believe, and I've had my own journey of transgenderism, that someone can not change sex. I do not need to defend that position.
The group's position is an actual issue in the world of competitive sports.
But at parkrun, that debate, my opinion, or your opinion about my beliefs, or that groups postion simply don't matter one jot. Why? Because we are all humans doing our best to do the best 5k we can on the day.
To show up, run alongside everyone no matter who, is a statement in itself.
Would you still run alongside me, with my different view to you?
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u/Glittering_Hope1114 1d ago
The people starting this don't participate at all people need the context. The British government and media currently on a crusade to purge trans people from the country section 28 has been brought back, banning trans people from hospital wards so now they have to be treated in waiting rooms. Britain is now comparable to Russia but is in freefall and likely to get worse. This has nothing to do with park run its more just another excuse for the outlets and politicians to demonise trans people on nothing.
But honestly all of this stuff is pretty pointless realistically trans people are leaving the country and have no choice frankly if no one was willing to stand up for them on anything important or even refute any of the fake news so this is just miniscule at this point. I appreciate that some people are trying but truthfully Britain is a nasty country for years I told myself that was not the case but well it is.
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u/BringTheFingerBack 1d ago
Let's not wear pride flags. Why does everything need to be a statement now.
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u/TheLifeCapoeira v25 1d ago
Because transphobes are actively trying to undermine parkrun’s inclusivity and we should show that’s not acceptable
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u/BringTheFingerBack 1d ago
They aren't. I have over 120 Parkruns under my belt and I have never heard of anything. It's just a run on a Saturday morning.
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u/royalbluestuey v100 2d ago
Just ignore them. What group they are or aren't in is an irrelevance to the event itself (in exactly the same way that someone's age category is irrelevant to everyone else's parkrunday experience)
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u/TheLifeCapoeira v25 1d ago
You can’t just ignore them though. You must actively fight against bigotry, otherwise it will win, and once they’ve had one victory there will be more groups they will come for
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u/Penguin335 1d ago edited 1d ago
Might just wear my Stand by your trans t-shirt to this Saturday's run tbh. This weekend is also the same date trans members of Girlguiding are getting kicked out and I am pissed off!
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u/FyrnEito 1d ago
I don't even know why ParkRun has male and female categories. Or age categories. There's no benefit to it. Just list all runners by finish time. It's non competitive so makes sense to amalgamate everything. Then there's no reason for either side to care about people joining different categories or not.
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u/TheLifeCapoeira v25 1d ago
It can be useful to help measure you’re own progress. But this part of the point, some people like this data and transphobes risk taking it away
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u/GenericUserName437 1d ago
You could measure your own progress by getting a time emailed to you privately each week. Parkrun has consistently refused to stop publishing finishing results (because they know how popular they are and fear participation will go down if they stop). Campaigners are just asking for those published results to be fair and accurate.
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u/TheLifeCapoeira v25 1d ago
They are fair and accurate. Transwomen are women, transmen are men, and the campaigners themselves say that nearly 300 transwomen have been fastest since parkrun began. This is after more than a million parkruns. So if anything, the data is showing ciswomen have the edge overall.
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u/GenericUserName437 1d ago
Your slogan isn’t the law, it’s a campaign strap line. If you want to change the law, fight for change. Until then the law is settled - under the Equality Act the term Woman relates only to biological females.
You are happy to concede that there have been 300 occasions of unfairness in Parkrun. So let’s fix that and remove the unfairness. Let only women (as defined under the Equality Act) compete in the women’s category.
Why would you be happy that 300 women have lost out on finishing first at their Parkrun? Why is the effort and determination of those women not worth anything? Why are you calling those who feel that effort and determination is valid a bigot?
The female record for the Aberystwyth course is held by a biological male running the in the female category - do biological women not deserve the chance to have a fair record to try and beat?.
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u/GingerSelkie91 1d ago
I mean Parkrun is a free 5k run managed by volunteers at your local park, it seems wildly OTT to get that bent out of shape over the results. The idea that a trans woman showing up on a Saturday morning to run/jog/walk round the park is robbing me of anything is absurd.
If people want to show up every week and run it as a race, that's fine. But ultimately it's not that deep and, honestly, results aren't that accurate anyway. People skip laps, share barcodes with their pals, sign up with the wrong age, funnel jump, you can get stuck behind buggies and trip over dogs and volunteers can get the timings a bit off. It's all good because it's a free community run that we're lucky enough to have run for us every Saturday morning.
If people are super concerned about racing and results accuracy they can always pay money to enter a race.
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u/RobCarrol75 1d ago
I think if I saw anyone associated with this group on my results list, there would be a few barcodes going "missing".
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u/yellowfolder 1d ago
Yes, just give the core team more admin with "hey, I'm showing as an unknown runner" e-mails. That'll show 'em.
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u/GenericUserName437 1d ago
The request from the campaigners is simple - either remove the element of Parkrun that makes it competitive (published finish order with categories for age/sex) or make that published finish order fair so that the age/sex categories are formally declared by the organisation as based on biological sex.
If Parkrun is not competitive (as many on here inevitably claim) there is absolutely no need to publish a finish order after each event.
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u/ajh489 2d ago
I think it's best to just ignore them.
I've done nearly 300 parkruns at 30 different locations and I've never seen or heard about these people. I only know about them because they occasionally crop up in the news.
Most parkrunners turn up, do their run and go home.