r/politics • u/IWantPizza555 • Jul 08 '26

No Paywall Kentucky Gov. Andy Beshear requests update on Sen. Mitch McConnell's health

https://www.whas11.com/article/news/politics/national-politics/kentucky-governor-andy-beshear-requests-update-senator-mitch-mcconnell-health/417-b9252baa-29ab-489e-94f1-147aa41e78ed
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352

u/MoogProg Jul 08 '26

I think Beshear needs to call that Special Election and let McConnell challenge it in court.

220

u/justconnect Jul 08 '26

I do too.

After a few days of demanding an answer if he doesn't get one, Beshear should just declare the seat vacant and move forward. If Mitch is still alive then they have to show it.

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u/Devil25_Apollo25 Jul 08 '26 edited Jul 08 '26

Agreed. Shift the burden of proof to Mitch and Co.

The proof for me that Mitch is incpacitated is that Mitch himself hasn't just .. you know... made a quick proof of life video. It would take 10 seconds and would silence allegations of his incapacitation.

We KNOW about the medical incident and have eye witness statements.

We KNOW there has been no word from Mitch since then.

There are allegations that he is "brain-dead" and thus incapacitated. There have been allegations that he is fully capable.

I'm no lawyer, but it seems to me that if Mitch wants to keep his seat, he needs to show that he can do the job in court by settling this very real dispute in court over potential harm to Kentucky voters he's getting paid to represent.

Since no one with access to the Senator has provided this easy proof of Mitch's vim and vigor, seems like a law suit from the Governor is appropriate here.

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u/SleepySnoozySloth Jul 08 '26

With AI these days I think we need more than a 10 second video. We need to have someone on site with a live camera crew so that we know it isn't being spoofed.

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u/Casual_OCD Canada Jul 08 '26

He needs to appear in the courtroom

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u/SleepySnoozySloth Jul 08 '26

That or inside the Capitol building

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u/MoogProg Jul 08 '26

See, I like this no nonsense take, that doing the job would clearly demonstrate Mitch's ability to do the job.

Bring it on.

8

u/PM_ME_YOUR_NICE_EYES Jul 08 '26

An important thing to note here is that if he is incapacitated but alive, then his seat doesn't get vacated.

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u/shidarin Jul 08 '26

The KY constitution just requires that he be unable to serve, death is irrelevant.

3

u/PM_ME_YOUR_NICE_EYES Jul 08 '26

Also not how it works.

Irregadless of what the Kentucky Constitution says, the United States Constitution does not grant states the ability to recall their senators.

So even if the Kentucky Constitution has a provision allowing for him to be removed from office if disabled, the federal government wouldn't view it as legit.

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u/Casual_OCD Canada Jul 08 '26

This is a State issue, nothing to do with the Federal government. All they do is receive the Senators the States send them

1

u/frogandbanjo Jul 08 '26

You're running up against the precedent that states are not allowed to add any requirements to a federal office whose requirements are outlined by the U.S. Constitution. Those requirements are deemed complete in and of themselves as a matter of the nation's highest law.

Notably, that precedent is from a different SCOTUS case than the rather schizophrenic one most often cited to confirm that states cannot recall congresspeople.

Combine the two, however, and your argument is in tough shape. You're essentially suggesting that a state should be allowed to recall a Senator (no good) due to failing to meet some new requirement for the job (no good) that, even if the U.S. Constitution maybe should contemplate it, it does not.

The nation ratified the 25th Amendment to account for a POTUS who's not dead but is arguably incapacitated. That ratification legitimizes the idea that you need to ratify a similar amendment for congresspeople to achieve a similar result.

0

u/PM_ME_YOUR_NICE_EYES Jul 08 '26

Yeah what's your source on that?

And if that is the case why don't any states have recall elections for senators for just general disapproval? Or for that matter, why don't any states elect senators for 4 year terms?

The answer to all these questions is that the term length of a senator has been set by the constitution and cannot be changed by the states. See Term Limits, Inc. v. Thornton

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u/Casual_OCD Canada Jul 08 '26

It's a fundamental principle of Federalism and covered extensively in the 10th Amendment

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u/PM_ME_YOUR_NICE_EYES Jul 08 '26

Here's the thing:

The tenth admendment grants any powers not granted to the federal government to the states.

However what you're missing here is:

The 17th amendment explicitly bans state governments from choosing senators. That is a power reserved to the people.

And in addition Article 1 of the constitution the ability to expel members of the US senate to the US senate.

So no, states cannot recall members of the senate. Once elected, they either have to complete their term, resign, or be expelled by the senate, but they cannot be recalled.

Like, here's a simple question. If states can recall senators as you're claiming, why has it never happened before?

If this is a well documented part of the American legal sphere then shouldn't you be able to give me the name of a recalled senator?

1

u/Ok_Mechanic_6575 Jul 09 '26

States can't recall senators. Even if he is incapacitated there is no legal mechanism to force him to resign. He serves until he is dead, resigns or his term ends. That's it

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u/chargernj Jul 08 '26

A court case would force them to prove he is alive but incapacitated.

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u/PM_ME_YOUR_NICE_EYES Jul 08 '26

No it wouldn't.

You'd just say that there's no death certificate issued for McConnell. Then it would be on the state to provide the death certificate they used to determine that he was dead and call the election.

From there the state's case is dead, because they do not have a death certificate, and cannot legally treat someone as dead without one.

Basically people are alive until proven dead, not the other way around.

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u/rothael Jul 08 '26

Is there a legal timeframe required to report someone as deceased on a death certificate?

5

u/TrashCanUnicorn Jul 08 '26

In DC, a doctor is supposed to fill out the cause of death on the death certificate within 48 hours after determination of death and funeral directors have 5 days to file it with the district. In reality, it usually takes a lot longer to get everything squared away and you can file a delayed certificate.

3

u/SomeGalNamedAshley Jul 08 '26

If Mitch is alive then he can provide a notarized letter saying so.

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u/Lou_C_Fer Ohio Jul 08 '26

You're going trust a notary?

2

u/SomeGalNamedAshley Jul 08 '26

No, but it's fun to add to the crime.

1

u/chrismsp Jul 08 '26

I think the only body that can declare the seat vacant is the Senate. They make their own rules and that's constitutionally guaranteed.

1

u/Own_Candidate9553 Jul 08 '26

Yeah, I hope that's the plan here. For some reason only Democrats are expected to play by the rules, so he has to at least go through normal channels at first.

If he just sits on this until after the special election deadline, I'll be disappointed, but not shocked.

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u/Cheech47 Jul 08 '26

the "special election" law itself is unconstitutional, it was only passed by a Republican statehouse to intentionally hamstring Beshear's ability to install a replacement Senator. Beshear needs to challenge and summarily ignore it and name a replacement Senator anyway.

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u/MoogProg Jul 08 '26

In true Mitch fashion he should just do it, and declare a replacement, letting the challanges bring on discovery.

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u/porn_is_tight Jul 08 '26

democrats would never, theyll dance around this as long as possible like the controlled opposition they are

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u/MoogProg Jul 08 '26

Strawman.

* * *

Political donor influence is real. Calling Democrats controlled opposition is propaganda meant to distribute some common guilt over an entire party.

It is the very 'controlled opposition' is claims to rail agaisnt.

-1

u/porn_is_tight Jul 08 '26

It’s not propaganda if their actions show otherwise. Maybe they should stop acting like it and we wouldn’t be in the midst of a almost completed coup, open your eyes

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u/RobotPoo Jul 08 '26

Dude, both sides are NOT the same. Stop inhaling the foreign propaganda gas

4

u/porn_is_tight Jul 08 '26

wtf are you talking about. I’m not saying both sides are the same, stop being so reductive

-1

u/MoogProg Jul 08 '26

Use of 'they'. Check. Shift blame. Check. Insinuate the reader is unintelligent or out-of-the-loop. Check.

This is propaganda, but perhaps you just ate it yourself and are spitting it back out for me today.

Not eating it. Got lunch going.

Rock on!

1

u/tofubeanz420 Jul 09 '26

democrats are so meek. I wish so bad a viable alternative to democrats will spring up.

1

u/OtherUserCharges Jul 08 '26

I dont like the law, but I don’t think every law we don’t like is unconstitutional. If the Republicans didn’t really have the power to do it, then it should be fought in the courts.

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u/Rnadmo Wisconsin Jul 08 '26

the "special election" law itself is unconstitutional

Why is it unconstitutional?

"When vacancies happen in the representation of any State in the Senate, the executive authority of such State shall issue writs of election to fill such vacancies: Provided, That the legislature of any State may empower the executive thereof to make temporary appointments until the people fill the vacancies by election as the legislature may direct."

1

u/OldBlueKat Jul 08 '26

First he needs proof of death or incapacitation. 

I don’t think McConnell is either dead or brain dead. I think Old Turtle is playing a tricky stall while he is recovering a bit from serious debilitation. 

And stalling votes on DJT shit he thinks is moronic but can’t/ won’t argue about for the sake of “GOP unity.”

And I bet he told GOP leaders (Thune and Barrasso) exactly that, in confidence, on the phone this week. 

But that’s just my theory. 

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u/illusionzmichael Jul 08 '26

100%. That's the bare minimum that a Republican governor would do in this situation if the roles were reversed.

-4

u/suprahelix Jul 08 '26

No they wouldn’t because it’s not a thing. You can’t just call a special election because you feel like it.

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u/illusionzmichael Jul 08 '26

Yeah for sure Republicans never do something that's not a thing just because they feel like it...

0

u/suprahelix Jul 08 '26

Normally when they do that, it’s because they have the power to carry it out.

Governors have no jurisdiction over the senate. The senate makes its own rules. Beshear can call 20 special elections and send every threat he wants, the senate doesn’t have to listen to him.

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u/KafeenHedake Jul 08 '26

If he thinks he has a shot at the White House, now's his chance to show us he has the mettle.

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u/Little-Derp California Jul 08 '26

I feel like only McConnell would have standing to challenge it, but wouldn't surprise me if they tried to allow someone else to challenge it. that said, it would open the can of worms they probably wouldn't want to deal with on the next case.

0

u/chrismsp Jul 08 '26

The Senate would have standing to challenge anyone or anything that took away their authority to make their own rules. I suspect that would also include any finding of fact that McConnell is or isn't dead .

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u/tomdarch Jul 08 '26

The current SCOTUS would rule for whatever helps the Republicans.

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u/MoogProg Jul 08 '26

It would never make it that far. Discovery would insist on some proof-of -vitality from Mitch long before it worked its way up to SCOTUS.

* * *

The constant astro-turf defeatism is exhausting, but of course that's the goal.

* * *

If that's you, and you think the defeatism is 'real talk' then you should go back and read the non-fiction political writings of Orwell and Voltaire, so you can examine your mindset and understand how you have ended up spouting this propaganda as if it's your own idea, as if it even a clear articulate idea.

You can stop this nonsense on your own. Read history.

2

u/UWwolfman Jul 08 '26

I think Beshear should enjoy a nice ice cold bottle of coke.

Why should the democratic governor jump into the Republican soap opera? Let them squabble among themselves. Asking about the senators health appropriate step, but theres little to gain by calling a special election now when the general election is in a few months.

1

u/MoogProg Jul 08 '26

Because a Special Election would allow Thomas Massie (and others) to run as an Independant, and that seems like a good thing for the people of Kentucky.

This is about representation for the People of Kentucky. This is not a GOP issue. They have stolen this issue from the population they supposedly represent.

* * *

Again, going to question another post here and ask if this isn't propaganda that it is being positioned as a genuine comment. This is crazy to suggest the GOP owns this issue as a procedural decision.

Can you point to the place in the Constitution where Political Parties are granted powers? It's not there*.

*1A is the only loose mention.

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u/UWwolfman Jul 08 '26

It should be obvious from my first comment, that I joking a little. You're right the Kentucky has a right to be represented in the Senate. But the governor should not take extraordinary steps and exercise powers which he probably doesn't have. As far as I know, the governor can not declare someone dead. If there are legitimate questions about the Senator's heath, the right way to address these are through the courts.

There also seems to be confusion about the special election. When a senator is elected to fill a vacancy in the senate, they serve until the original six year term of the seat that their filling expires. So while Massie (and others) could run as independents in the special elections, if elected, they would only serve until January 3rd, 2027. On the 3rd, the winner of the general election would start their 6 year term.

It is fair and appropriate to respect the primary process and apply deadlines for running in general election. Massie did not run in the senate primary. Instead he ran in the primary for his house district and lost. This was his choice. It was a fair election. Trying to create legal loopholes where Massie could run for senate, ignores the will of those who voted for Barr and Booker in the primary. This would not a good thing!

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u/MoogProg Jul 08 '26 edited Jul 08 '26

The legal loophole is holding McConnell's seat open and withholding clear evidence of his capabilities. Let's stay focused here.

* * *

Still leaning towards this not being a sincere commenter. There was no joke above, and this is obvious deflection from the core complaint. Mitch might be dead.

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u/OldBlueKat Jul 08 '26

He can’t.  The KY legislature changed their laws on Senatorial succession last year. Only the Legislature can call one, and after Aug 2 the election already underway will just automatically become a special election for the seat. 

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u/Traditional_Sign4941 Jul 08 '26

If Democrats played political hardball with their policies the way Republicans did with theirs, Republicans would have a much harder time being the way they are.

1

u/MoogProg Jul 08 '26

Stop playing the both sides game, please. No government actors should ever target political enemies, or enact illegal departments like DOGE, or shutdown Congress to avoid votes, or use Reconciliation to pass un-passable legislation like the SAVE Act.

Democrats are weak! goes the claim because they expect Government actors to follow the law. I also want a strong Democratic party to push back, but we need to be clear about the messaging.

Democrats should play hard ball, but not the way Republicans do. That way is often illegal/immoral/disingenuous/etc.

Don't drive like my brother! - Tappert Brothers

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u/Traditional_Sign4941 Jul 08 '26

You still going to be wringing your hands about the high road while ICE is ringing your neck?

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u/[deleted] Jul 08 '26

[deleted]

1

u/Traditional_Sign4941 Jul 08 '26 edited Jul 08 '26

This is a veiled threat

LMAO I'd love to hear your logic on this on this.

ICE is in fact a gang of bullies that will in fact not stop being bullies to people who merely go "hey that's not fair!!!!". That's an observation of basic reality. How you think that's a threat is beyond me.

And until Democrats start using the same dirty tricks Republicans do, that's exactly what the situation is going to be - ICE and the Project 2025 Cabal is going to be running roughshod over people who fret about playing by the rules.

If the other team has bought the umps, you aren't going to be winning that game no matter how much you pout about it being unfair.

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u/[deleted] Jul 08 '26

[deleted]

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u/Traditional_Sign4941 Jul 08 '26

You are calling for tactics outside the law to be be used against other citizens.

What the god damned fuck are you talking about? You have some absolutely shit-tier reading comprehension.

I fucking agreed with you and then you started arguing with me LMAO.

Go read your first comment, then mine.

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u/Terrible_Use7872 Jul 09 '26

Beshear needs to name a successor as the Kentucky constitution dictates and let that play out in court.

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u/MoogProg Jul 09 '26

Hear hear!

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u/Kevlaars Jul 08 '26 edited Jul 08 '26

Nope. That would be against the rules.

Democrats think rules still matter.

Put a Democrat in a boxing ring and bash them over the head with a steel chair and they'll still think they are boxing under Queensbury Rules.

1

u/ThatsGenocide Jul 08 '26

I don't think it would be against the rules. The law says "vacancy" but doesn't define how vacancy is achieved. Declaring the office vacant because Mcconnell is unable to be at work would be challenged in court, but is probably within the bounds of existing law.

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u/Kevlaars Jul 09 '26 edited Jul 09 '26

You cannot beat them by playing by the rules they are ignoring.

You cannot get them to play by rules again without breaking the rules yourself.

Can the Governor call an election, legally, to replace McConnell? Who gives a shit?

Do it and make them defend it in court. "The Plaintiff calls The Honorable Senator from Kentucky, Mitch McConnell on video call, with a 5 minute limit. He gave 17 minutes to a CNN pundit, an hour to 3 colleagues...Surely he has 5 for the court... right? If not, why?"