r/politics • u/Hootinger • 16d ago

No Paywall Hakeem Jeffries says Medicare for all is not legislation he currently supports

https://www.nbcnews.com/meet-the-press/video/hakeem-jeffries-says-medicare-for-all-is-not-legislation-he-currently-supports-268371525570
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u/ChadEmpoleon 16d ago edited 16d ago

Seriously. Yes, the American people are to blame for electing Trump.

It is hard for me to fault the apathetic non-voters when the opposing party runs on,

‎ ‎ ‎ ‎ “No, we will not improve your lives. Vote for us to maybe possibly keep things from getting worse. Idk, we’ll see.”

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u/Nekrabyte 16d ago

Not to mention in over 40 states being a non voter is EXACTLY the same as being a voter because the electoral college makes votes worth more depending on where you live.  Add 400 million Democrat voters to my state and it would literally change nothing.

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u/illegalcupcakes16 16d ago

This is what has been driving me insane when people go on about the non-voters. Republicans have such a strong super majority in my state that Dems would need to have historical turnout to flip an election. My "vote" went to Trump three times even though I have voted against him three times, and if he runs in 2028 (unconstitutional, but we don't need to pretend they care about that document), it will be four out of four.

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u/elbow8075 South Dakota 16d ago

While I want to choke them, I assume the people on here that blame nonvoters for all their problems are just immature children, no different than the MAGA cheerleading clowns.

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u/Nekrabyte 16d ago

110%. I wish I could upvote you thrice.

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u/OldWorldDesign 15d ago

I assume the people on here that blame nonvoters for all their problems are just immature children

There is a role in those people not participating in probably the most important selection of party officials: primary elections. Not all of these seats are contested, but many are and if more eligible voters actually participated we wouldn't have so many sedentary corporate stooges. In most of the country voter engagement for primaries is below 30%.

That is something to condemn voters for. Having the opportunity to shove off incumbents not doing their job and refusing to participate.

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u/Sea-Initiative-3398 15d ago

It's always been silly to me as it just makes me think there doing the thing centrists often accuse progressives of. of like pie in the sky thinking or whatever.

One cannot mind control the apathetic, one can control how there party appears to the public and comes off as.

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u/lazyFer 16d ago

The non voters in any state could shift the power dynamic of they actually voted...but nope, they do nothing and bitch about both sides while patting themselves on the back for being so whatever they feel makes them superior to others

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u/Nekrabyte 16d ago

Which state are you referring to? Do you have any numbers to back that up? Because my state has voted straight blue for like 40 years, and I fail to see how the election results from my state being exactly the same as they are now would "shift the power dynamic".

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u/OldWorldDesign 15d ago

Do you have any numbers to back that up?

Texas had historically strong voter engagement in the most recent primaries. That 'strong' was 53%, which is pathetic

https://texpolls.com/turnout

A state is lucky to see even 20% vote, so it's no wonder why corporate stooges who do very little get elected when voters don't show up to the primaries to tell the candidates whom they feel is least qualified.

https://bipartisanpolicy.org/press-release/voters-dont-participate-primaries/

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u/bentbrewer 16d ago

Most turnout for any state is around 60%, there are a few with better turnout - very few. If the non voters voted for one party, it would definitely change the winner in all but a very small number of states (these states are either Dem or independent). https://ballotpedia.org/Voter_turnout_in_United_States_elections

Non-voting is a vote for the winner. Period.

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u/LordCharidarn2 16d ago

Would it change the winner if all the non-voters voted for the winning party?

Assuming 100% of non-voters would vote for your preferred candidate definitely seems like a way to drive yourself crazy on election night. But you do you.

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u/lazyFer 15d ago

WE DON'T FUCKING KNOW BECAUSE THEY DON'T PARTICIPATE

See? That's the fucking problem. Well, except they still fucking bitch and moan while not actually doing the one fucking thing that gives them a voice.

They've proclaimed to the world IGNORE ME

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u/LordCharidarn2 15d ago

And yet you won’t ignore them. And I don’t see people who claim they didn’t vote bitch and moan, they are probably still as disconnected as they were before, just keeping their heads down and trying to get through the day.

What I do see is a bunch of people bitching and moaning about people who didn’t vote ‘supporting Trump’. Thought experiment for you, if every Trump supporter had decided not to vote last election, would Trump have won the election?

If you say ‘no’, than it seems reasonable that not voting for Trump is not supporting Trump, correct?

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u/lazyFer 15d ago edited 15d ago

I don't give a fuck what non voters want because I see them as idiots that clearly don't understand anything... Just like Republicans.

We are factually in this shit because these non voters couldn't be bothered so they "voted" for whomever the winner was. In this case, Republicans.

Republicans have made it a core fundamental thing to their party to reduce the number of people voting because they do better the fewer people vote. So you can pretend that non voters aren't republicans little bitches, but they are.

Thought experiments like that aren't actually intelligent in any way. You're trying to reframe the argument into something that it isn't and arguing against that... Which is a strawman

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u/Nekrabyte 15d ago

That math doesn't math, my man.

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u/fred11551 Virginia 15d ago

There are more nonvoters in Texas than democratic and Republican voters combined in Texas. Nonvoters absolutely are to blame. They could swing any election they want.

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u/rayword45 16d ago

Every time someone goes off about the non-voters being "just as much to blame" as actual Trump voters, I ask them how the fuck a non-voter in Alabama or Massachusetts is as to blame as a non-voter in Pennsylvania. They NEVER have an answer.

I also point out how their argument doesn't even make mathematical sense.

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u/Unctuous_Robot 15d ago

Harris was a few hundred thousand votes away from winning the electoral college.

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u/rayword45 15d ago

That doesn't change anything about my point that blaming non-voters in states like Alabama or Massachusetts at the same level as non-voters in actual swing states is fucking stupid.

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u/Unctuous_Robot 15d ago

And yet I live in a swing state and your comment is still visible.

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u/[deleted] 16d ago

[removed] — view removed comment

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u/rayword45 16d ago

So does that mean everyone who didn't vote in 2020 is a Biden supporter? Or does this non-logic only go one way?

Also, you clearly missed the entire point of my comment, which is how the electoral college means that your vote is functionally worthless if you live in one of the ~43 non-swing states

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u/fcocyclone Iowa 16d ago

I will say that those people who didn't vote in non-swing states could have at least affected things downballot. A few votes swung the other way would have been huge in blocking things like his "big beautiful bill" that gave huge bonuses to ICE.

Trump is awful but his damage has been multiplied by having a compliant congress

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u/rayword45 15d ago

I largely agree with you, but nobody who writes smug, self-fellating comments about how non-voters are "just as much to blame" as Trump voters are doing so in reference to anything other than the Presidential election.

Based off this singular comment of yours bringing up a salient point that is wholly ignored whenever non-voters are discussed, I'm inclined to believe you're intelligent enough to recognize that.

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u/LordCharidarn2 16d ago

So Choosing to vote for Trump makes you a Trump Supporter. And… not voting for Trump makes you a Trump supporter?

By this logic, isn’t a non-voter also a Harris supporter? Are non-voters voting twice, in your opinion?

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u/Beautiful_Nobody_344 15d ago

It's an odd time to be alive. I'm a Trump supporter because I was too depressed to get out the house to vote, I'm a transphobe because I still listen to Harry Potter on audible, and I'm racist because I say things like "nip it in the bud" (I'm still confused on that one).

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u/carbonqubit 15d ago

It's non-voters or 3rd party ones in swing states who are to blame from a realpolitik perspective. The bigger problem is the Electoral College, which, if dissolved, would allow everyone's vote to be weighted equally.

Someone who lives in Wisconsin has a massive advantage over someone who votes in California because each state gets two senators, and Wisconsin has a much smaller population. It's a fundamentally undemocratic design.

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u/Sea-Initiative-3398 15d ago

It's just stupid in a smug centrist sense too.

Like again, you cannot control every person who votes. What can one control. the policies, how one comes off and so on.

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u/tipjarman 15d ago

400 million? What state is that?

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u/Kanin_usagi 16d ago

There are more things to vote on than just the presidency. Local and state elections are also important, and dumbasses don’t vote for those either

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u/Nekrabyte 16d ago

We were talking about voting for Trump. I vote in every election, including Primaries. That doesn't negate the fact that vote is entire worthless for presidency, which was the topic of the conversation. If we were talking about Congress, I wouldn't have said my vote was worthless in that context. Context my man.

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u/rayword45 16d ago

You know DAMN WELL that when people are raging about non-voters they are specifically referring to the presidential general election.

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u/Grandpa_No 16d ago

When the opponent says, "I will do stupid shit and make your life worse just like last time" then yes, it's on the voters. There are two options on the table and voters and non-voters are choosing between the two whether they're smart enough to realize it or not.

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u/TehWackyWolf 16d ago

Calling them stupid will win the votes this time!!

We can't learn

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u/Mickey_McDoofus 16d ago

Yes, because coddling and appeasing deplorables is working SO well. Fuck that, let them take their medicine.

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u/BannedSvenhoek86 16d ago

You understand the point of contention being discussed is that the Democrats DON'T CODDLE OR APPEASE people more left than Jeffries right?

I would love to live in a world where they actually tried doing that even one time. They haven't.

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u/rabbitlion 16d ago

It has been tried over and over and it works well in solidly blue districts and states but when you have closely contested elections you lose the center voters and republicans get the seat.

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u/guamisc 16d ago

It has been tried over and over

lmfao, no it hasn't. Don't lie.

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u/TehWackyWolf 16d ago

The people who aren't voting are now deplorable?

Holy fuck double down again. Call them a slur.

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u/Mickey_McDoofus 15d ago

A non-vote is a vote for the GOP, so yep...deplorable.

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u/TehWackyWolf 15d ago

Lmao. Keep losing elections and crying about it then. If you won't make any compromise, you'll not have any friends. Been begging for days for the left to be calm and less Nazi like .

Been getting hate for it constantly despite voting exactly how you want me to. Lmao.

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u/Lucky-Earther Minnesota 16d ago

Oh no, what are they going to do about it, vote next time?

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u/TehWackyWolf 16d ago

Probably not. Just like last time..

How's that working out for us? It went well when we told potential allies that we hate them? We're winning and a Nazi didn't?

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u/Lucky-Earther Minnesota 16d ago

Probably not. Just like last time..

Then there's no problem.

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u/AnonAmbientLight 16d ago

You have the choice between a room that is slightly uncomfortable with a buzzing light, and a room that has razor blades that cut you until you die.

Why do you have to sell you on the first room?

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u/ChadEmpoleon 16d ago

Because they have the option to not choose.

When presented with two choices they don’t want, some people will just opt out of participating. That’s why dems need to court voters. Running on not being the worse option clearly doesn’t work.

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u/AnonAmbientLight 16d ago

Because they have the option to not choose.

You actually don't because if you decide not to choose, a room will still be chosen for you.

That's how every election works. I don't know why people say this btw. Because if the analogy is that the rooms represent choices in the presidential election, you still get the president whether or not you participate.

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u/ChadEmpoleon 16d ago

“I don’t know why people say this btw.”

Because that’s how it is. We can reason all we want to about why we must vote even if unenthusiastically. I know I get it.

Others don’t. Even if it’s to their detriment.

Patronizing them a fourth time over it won’t get them on our side. Why not try a different approach where you give them something to vote for.

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u/AnonAmbientLight 16d ago

Because that’s how it is.

No, it isn't lmfao.

If you decide not to vote, someone still becomes president and they still get to do all the things they said they were going to do to you.

You don't escape the responsibility nor the outcome by not voting.

Pick a sandwich, or one will be chosen for you to eat. And you will eat it.

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u/ChadEmpoleon 16d ago

“We can reason all we want to about why we must vote even if unenthusiastically. I know I get it.

Others don’t. Even if it’s to their detriment.”

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u/BannedSvenhoek86 16d ago

Look, I'm not always trying to be that guy in these threads, but you need to understand that there is a multi million dollar operation that has been ongoing for over a decade to pay people to post stuff like he just did. It's part of the playbook to make arguments like that, where it's like they don't even pay attention to anything aside from one line to hyper fixate on and debate as if that's the encapsulation of your entire argument. Its so common on this board and I've seen it so much that those comments are basically glowing to me when I read them. It's unfortunately a pretty effective way at steering the narrative towards the path they want while winding you up to the point you seem unreasonable.

Dont bother. You made your point well, let the bot/operative get the last line in and don't waste your sanity.

And before I hear it, it's not about them disagreeing, it's about the way they disagree. It's basically trolling, the entire point of what they are doing is trying to make people that are actually passionate about their country seem like crazies while the milquetoast person that never let's their emotions show seems like the reasonable and diplomatic one.

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u/AnonAmbientLight 16d ago edited 15d ago

Look, I'm not always trying to be that guy in these threads, but you need to understand that there is a multi million dollar operation that has been ongoing for over a decade to pay people to post stuff like he just did.

Lol, lmao even.

Would we have been better off under Harris instead of Trump?

If the answer is "yes", then why the fuck did people pick Trump, who said he was going to do everything he is doing right now?

And why did people decide they'd leave it to chance by not voting?

And fair warning, the answer is only "yes, we would have been better off under Harris." so it's a bit of a trick question.

Edit: This is what I am talking about. If you can’t even acknowledge that we’d be better off under Harris, then you didn’t fundamentally understand what the stakes were in the 24’ election and so have no business in this conversation.

Which is why they saw their way out. Appreciate that.

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u/AnonAmbientLight 16d ago

So why do I have to sell you on the first room?

Why is it my fault when people decide that the second room is the one they want, and people who could have picked the first room and had it win decided they wanted it to be a toss up?

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u/rayword45 16d ago

If you live in one of the vast majority of states that isn't a swing state your choice for president is completely worthless

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u/AnonAmbientLight 16d ago

Neat.

Doesn't prove my point wrong in the slightest, does it?

It's also not what he was suggesting, but thank you for your comment.

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u/captainporcupine3 16d ago

We can fight all day about WHY people should have to be convinced to vote for the lesser of two evils. At the end of the day they still have to be convinced. So your options are to get to convincing them, or give up and let the fascists win. You pick.

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u/AnonAmbientLight 16d ago

We can fight all day about WHY people should have to be convinced to vote for the lesser of two evils

No, it's a good discussion to have, don't you think so?

Should it have not been obvious to anyone with a functioning brain and able to have a single thought that the room with the buzzing light is the better choice of the two?

People picked the guy that said he was going to tax them for no reason (tariffs).

Why are voters not smart enough to know what's good for them?

How can you hope to win the next election when seemingly the voters are not picking choices based on logic and reason?

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u/LiveChocolate8819 New York 16d ago

You're really out of touch with what the average nonvoter cares about, and Americans don't care about institutions and election integrity as much as you think they do.

You're not going to convince someone to carve out time on a Tuesday to stand in line and choose between "I keep working long hours at a job I hate for not enough money" or "I keep doing all that but maybe we keep some other rights that don't really affect my material conditions."

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u/AnonAmbientLight 16d ago

You're really out of touch with what the average nonvoter cares about, and Americans don't care about institutions and election integrity as much as you think they do.

Trump said he was going to raise taxes on everyone via tariffs. If you're a nonvoter and don't care about institutions or election integrity, surely you care about your wallet...right?

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u/move_machine 15d ago

If I have to spend the rest of my life in that room, like I do my country, I will take the razor blade room, please.

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u/AnonAmbientLight 15d ago

If I have to spend the rest of my life in that room

Nope. Only have to spend four years in the room.

So you're choosing death rather than being slightly annoyed, which is fucking insane lol but you do you boo.

Hope you feel better. You belong. You are loved.

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u/lazyFer 16d ago

Fuck that. Trump and Republicans are clearly, demonstrably, and measurably worse for everyone in the country except the rich.

The apathetic voters just didn't give enough of a fuck. They are just as much to blame as republican voters.

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u/Lucky-Earther Minnesota 16d ago

It's easy for me to fault non voters for having the attitude of waiting around for their perfect candidate to appear, instead of just voting every time and choosing the best option on the ballot.

People fought and died for our right to vote. "The people running don't inspire me enough" is just not a good enough excuse.

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u/guamisc 16d ago

Sigh. To many people the D choice on the ballot is just the person who led us to this place where these Republicans could get on the ballot and win. My entire several decade life has been the choice of (R) - Evil shit and (D) - Do nothing you want and impotently let even worse R's win next time.

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u/Lucky-Earther Minnesota 16d ago

Sigh. To many people the D choice on the ballot is just the person who led us to this place where these Republicans could get on the ballot and win.

If all the people that stayed home had instead voted for a third party, that person would have won the popular vote.

Not to mention that this insane laser focus on only the Presidential election is part of why we are here, because all those people that stay home are also saying they don't care about who wins locally, and that can make a huge difference.

I fault the people who stay home and don't participate just as much as anyone else.

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u/guamisc 16d ago

Sure, everyone is at fault. But how much power and individual agency does everyone have and how much can everyone effect?

That fuckhole Jeffries? If he would remove head from ass, he could change a lot of stuff.

You? Me? Not much.

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u/Lucky-Earther Minnesota 16d ago

But how much power and individual agency does everyone have and how much can everyone effect?

The power and individual agency that you have is your vote, your voice, and your ability to run for something.

I'm just tired of the excuses for non-voters that they aren't happy with the choices. You can't stay home and stay silent, and then complain that the choices that other people picked aren't good enough for you.

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u/guamisc 16d ago

I vote.

I use my voice to fight against Republicans and those assholes like Jeffries and Schumer so we could actually build a coalition who could win year over year. Would be nice if I didn't have to fight the latter idiots who qualify as my "leadership".

I do not have the financial resources to run for a position that pays 17k or less a year for my local/state level races.

I'm just tired of the excuses for non-voters that they aren't happy with the choices. You can't stay home and stay silent, and then complain that the choices that other people picked aren't good enough for you.

Well they can and they do, so maybe lets stop serving them shit.

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u/Lucky-Earther Minnesota 16d ago

I vote.

Then this isn't about you.

Primary turnout has been pathetic for decades. Even regular turnout has only cleared 60% in the last few years. If you vote in every election, every primary, then you are a minority.

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u/guamisc 16d ago

Well our shitass leadership has been doing the same stuff over and over, losing to worse Republicans every time.

Maybe you should start using your vote and voice against people who actually have power and reach and not browbeating the electorate who won't listen to you.

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u/Lucky-Earther Minnesota 16d ago

Well our shitass leadership has been doing the same stuff over and over, losing to worse Republicans every time.

And staying home and not participating is not how that will be fixed.

Maybe you should start using your vote and voice against people who actually have power and reach and not browbeating the electorate who won't listen to you.

Or what, they'll actually get off their ass and do something about it? Oh no, not that.

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u/thirtynation 16d ago

It should be EASY AS SHIT to blame them. Are you fucking kidding me? Their only other choice was to vote for the guy actively shouting his fascism from the rooftops. That wasn't easy enough for them to figure out? Do they just not understand that not voting at all is equivalent to voting for the bad guy? (Don't answer this. I know those morons don't understand that.)