With the development of Champions OU, some Pokémon that were banned in generations 6 and 7 have now made OU or even UU their home, such as Mega-Kangaskhan. So I wondered what happened to every former Uber Pokémon, that is, Pokémon that were Ubers at some point but fell down to OU or lower tiers. The image shows what happened to each Pokémon that used to be Ubers. Some Pokémon were Ubers for just one generation, like Volcarona in SV because of Tera and Machamp in DPP (I have no idea why Machamp in gen 4 was in Ubers, but anyway), which is more of an anomaly of that generation, but others were genuinely broken in multiple generations but eventually the meta evolved to allow them, such as Darkrai and Deoxys-Speed.

The data is all in this spreadsheet. If i made any mistake let me know!

Everything was rounded to the nearest percent, and Mega Evolutions were counted separately from their base form, but a mega winning counts as the base form winning.

I made a theorymon post recently in regards to Terapagos getting some buffs. Most of them were to try and make Terapagos Stellar USABLE in ubers where Koraidon roams about without trying to push it over the edge. Admitibly I might have failed in that but one change was for both forms, that being adding recover. That was probably the biggest mistake. I was thinking it was viable, but in a niche sort of way due to its existent but mediocre ways to deal with spin blockers being the cost for its utility.

I was wrong.

APPARENTLY this turtle is considered more viable than pokemon like Kyurem Black, Rayquaza, Mewtwo, FLUTTER MANE, Skeledirge, and Goddamn GIRATINA ORIGIN! I know the smogon viability rankings aren't definitive and that viability is subjective to a fault. A strong pokemon for some might seem flawed to others, even if there are clear pros and cons to them HOWEVER the fact that a public forum used to determine viability deemed Terapagos to be this good is quite telling even if it isn't for the form designed to be powerful, and pretty nice too since I love the little goober.

I'd still like to revise my last post to focus SOLELY on buffing Terapagos Stellar to the point where it can be considered close to, or on par with the base form in singles at least.

Also on a mostly unrelated note I thought Koraidon and Miraidon were going to be getting rapid spin because of the Cyclizar trailer since the box arts were paradox forms of Cyclizar and resembled them. Imagine what sort of nightmare that would be if that actually did happen, especially after the speed buff that Rapid Spin gained.

https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/the-future-of-smogon.3787747/

Since we're getting Rillaboom, Cinderace and Inteleon are pretty much locked in. And Mega Baxcalibur too.

I'm thinking we'll get most if not all of the remaining non-legendary Megas

1. The megas introduced next season feature 2 pokemon that he reliably oneshots in LucarioZ and the very likely MGolisipod. These pokemon will also likely be threatening attackers and won’t have a lot of other counters

2. Rillaboom, an incredible support and all rounder who was shown to be incredibly strong in SV even through the widespread OgerponH will have a very high usage rate. He also gets ohkod by Zard, even through assault vest

3. The meta is currently very specially frail, especially to fire types

4. The addition of strong steel and fighting types (LucarioZ, Heatran, MGolisipod, etc) will cut down on the viability of the rock types that are needed to hold Zard accountable

5. Garchomp Z for shafted and given levitate for whatever reason so don’t look to him for help

6. Until the release of the box arts bring Groudon and Kyogre into the mix no new notable weather setters are going to be brought to check him

I am genuinely having a lot of success with bringing accelerock lycanroc in my 6th slot and only using him for Zard bc it’s like 20% of the people in Master league and I don’t even blame them

I guess the pokédex wasn't lying

We've all been wanting assault vest to be added since champions released, and with Rillaboom confirmed being one of the Pokémon added, it seems like a no-brainer to add assault vest back in. But what else? Personally, I want the two other choice items to return, choice specs, and choice band, as well as covert cloak and clear amulet.

By @MoongeistBeams . She also wants it to be known that shes aware she forgot about Tapu Koko

Repost

Hi everyone, the mod team has been tracking a handful of topics over the last couple of months and wanted to run some things by the community to see what changes make the most sense for everyone. These are not in effect, and are only our first pass at changing how content is treated on the subreddit.

Please review our existing rules here before commenting: https://old.reddit.com/r/stunfisk/about/rules/

1. AI and Software Development

Previously, we have classified all AI Generated Content as "Low Effort," and removed it accordingly. "AI Generated" is a hot topic, and has many different meanings and applications across lots of different places. We have seen a large uptick in websites and tools that use AI in some part of their construction, be it entirely vibecoded things or utilizing it in some part of the tech stack, usually test cases.

The webdev world is split on this matter. Some genuinely helpful websites may be made using AI, and reddit has AI generated code in it now, too. There is no reasonable way to filter submissions by "AI or not" other than the creator's disclosure.

The mod team feels that, like artwork, we should ban AI generated software, too. Is there too great of an opportunity cost to make this a strict ban? Should we only require disclosure, and not a full ban?

Some examples of submissions we have received that use AI:

• https://typlo.org/
• https://battlelab.app/
• https://www.oakalytics.com/

Our Proposed Rules:

• Artwork or text that uses AI is Low Effort and Banned
• Websites, tools, or software that use AI are Low Effort and Banned

2. Crediting artwork

Presently, we only require crediting artwork as part of the "High Effort" requirement on Stinkpost and Theorymon rules. Given the recent AI pressure, we want to encourage credit where credit is human.

Our Proposed Rule:

• Elevate "Artwork requires Credit" to be a main rule or part of Rule 2. No Low Effort Content

3. Theorymon Thursday

Theorymon Thursday is a contentious but popular part of the subreddit. Despite the mod team's efforts, post quality has trended downwards and often the specific Theorymon Thursday rules are ignored despite our enforcement or reminders to consistent posters. Posts 1 2 3 often prioritize individual cool ideas over competitive contexts, and while they are often well discussed, are not the focus of the subreddit. Some 1 still follow the requirements for sure.

Ultimately, the current mod team is not able to keep up with the enforcement of these rules, nor are we all the best stewards of this content. We have not found suitable candidates to moderate this space better than how we are doing now. We recognize that the r/stunfisk userbase is younger and more casual than Smogon, and having multiple focuses in one place is part of our appeal; despite this, we feel that Theorymon would be better suited on its own subreddit with its own leadership.

How do you feel about this?

Our Proposed Rules:

• No more Theorymon allowed on /r/stunfisk
• Grant ownership of r/theorymon to a willing user or group of users

4. Teambuilding

Lastly, Teambuilding posts have remained about the same as they have always been, sometimes useful and sometimes just shouting into the void. No real ideas from us -- would you change anything to make teambuilding posts better?

I don't post often, but I'm a longtime lurker and I don't see this brought up often. What would it take to make Grassy Terrain a more meta defining effect?

Obviously Rillaboom is coming soon, and that will help. But aside from Rillaboom himself and maybe some grassy seed/unburden combos, afaik there aren't as many mons who benefit enough from the terrain to build teams around the terrain. Sun and rain have bigger damage boosts (is it just grassy glides fault that terrain for nerfed to 30%? Like, grass is already a bad attacking types), more powerful abilities that benefit from the weather, and fire and water are better attacking types in general. Not to mention moves like solar beam or electroshot or a handful of others that benefit from the weathers too.

Personally, as more of a grass starter fan, I would like to see grassy terrain be more useful and in line with sun and rain. I know that some grass types can benefit from sun and rain in their own way, like chlorophyll or easing fire weaknesses, but it feels like it's time for grass to be a bit more self reliant as a type. Hot take maybe, I dunno.

What do you all think? What sort of buffs or changes would it take for grassy terrain to be as good as weathers? Is it already good enough and I'm just not seeing it?

Just look at it's stats and already it's a red flag. The minmaxxed offensive stats has proven to broken multiple times times in history. Deoxys Attack, Pheromosa, Chien Pao, Spectrier, Iron Bundle, Naganadel, Flutter Mane, Marshadow.

For VGC, the three most relevant non-contact physical moves right now are Rock Slide, Earthquake, and Last Respects.

With Lucario Z already quad-resisting Rock Slide and being faster than Mega Aerodactly, it’s funny one of the most favorable Pokemon into Rock Slide to begin with.

Earthquake is of course the biggest problem Mega Lucario Z has, but Grassy Surge Rillaboom is a godsend for that. There’s still the question of whether other surge setters are appearing in M-C. If not, then there’s a chance earthquake would also be heavily deterred across the format, potentially leading to far more frequent use of Stomping Tantrum and High Horsepower.

It’s also cute that Rillaboom which is essential for Earthquake softening is also likely to have one of the best matchups against Basculegion (provided it keeps Grassy Glide), which helps patch up the weakness of Last Respects bypassing Aura Guard. Also helps that Lucario Z’s speed tier makes it not have to worry much about the Scarf Basc variants, though its Dark Pulses cannot OHKO Basc without chip.

However, for the double-edged sword aspect, if seeds are added alongside Rillaboom, then there are some potential issues as well. A Rillaboom dominant metagame with Grassy Seed around has a high liklihood of incentivizing Adamant Grassy Seed Unburden Sneasler sets. Jolly is still fairly common currently since Sneasler has to CC before it can get the Unburden boost, but it may be less important if Grassy Seed is around. The difference between Adamant and Jolly Sneasler is quite significant for Lucario Z: while it only needs a small amount of investment to take a Jolly Sneasler CC, the requirements for Adamant CC are more demanding: for having a 87.5% chance to survive, it needs either 19 Def SP., 32 HP SP, or some hybrid such as 9 HP and 12 Def. Granted, non-Sash Sneasler sets tend to run some bulk, so it’s possible they might not afford to run max attack which lowers the bulk requirements a bit.

It’s hard to know how much Lucario Z can end up investing in bulk. If at least one of the other Z megas or Mega Aerodactyl is relevant enough, it might be incentivied to run Timid max speed, instead of affording to just speedcreep Scarf Basc. Whereas the case of Mega Raichu Y was more obvious to me by virtue of how good its supporting options are, allowing it to bulk all points into bulk besides having enough speed to creep Sneasler and Mega-Frosslass, Lucario Z is harder to pin down with how offense reliant it is. Aura Sphere and Flash Cannon being only moderate power moves also makes it hard to give up a lot of Sp.Atk investment. And Gravity Focus Blast will probably be the meme it always is. But Coaching or Calm Mind sets are potential ways that it could afford more bulk, so we’d have to see there. Notably Calm Mind might help a lot for Floette, since Lucario Z dies to Moonblast and fails to KO with Flash Cannon, but Calm Mind can help with both of those problems.

Another issue with the Rillaboom + Lucario Z core is that both mons struggle into Zard Y. Lucario doesn’t have Power Gem and Zard resists both its STABs. Running this duo puts a lot of burden on having a Zard Y counter. And while Calm Mind builds could potentially be promising against Floette, they sound like an auto-lose against Zard Y. Worth noting that Timid Lucario Z Rock Tomb (which could maybe be a cope choice due to that insane speed tier) only does about half to bulked up Zard Y.

I couldn’t just help thinking of potential implications to Rillaboom coming out at the same time as Aura Guard Lucario Z.

Hello! I recently saw a gimmick team using only Regenerator Pokemon, and it was actually quite fun. Specifically, Cyclizar was a very heavy hitter. I've always had a fondness for Cyclizar and would love to use him in a practical sense, but doing a bunch of calculations, he seems to JUST miss the mark with OHKOs on well used mons using Tera Normal Choice Double Edge with 252 Atk (It seems to be his highest form of damage from what I can tell).

His coverage is great though, having U-Turn, Knock Off, Rapid Spin and Ice Spinner. I feel like it has at least SOME potential. I understand not every pokemon is viable, I'm sure Dragonite is probably a way better fit for a Tera Normal attacker. It might not even be worth using my Tera on Cyclizar. But I at least want to try and fit him into a team well. Is there any other moves he learns that could fit him in a different, better role? Or is there just no point in trying?

If only they gave him Extreme Speed.

(Pokémon champions, singles) Quick warning beforehand, this is not a GOOD team, at least, I am not a pro. I reached master with this team, but this post is not about showing how smart I am, but about wanting feedback to improve it.

I made this team because I like Tinkaton and wanted to see it bash some skulls in. Life orb and swords dance means that in principle, she can do a lot of damage with Gigaton Hammer. However, Tinkaton has a couple of notable weaknesses:
-Gets completely walled by physical corviknight
-(Almost?) all Garchomp sets beat it easily
- Charizard Y doesn’t outspeed it, but does ohko.

Accompanying Tinkaton, I have brought some mons I like and mons that I think work well alongside this team:
- Mega Lopunny with Swords Dance. I had U-Turn at first, but noticed setup was more valuable in most situations than momentum. Maybe my experience is not representative of the meta, I don’t know for sure, but with a +2 attack boost few mons can survive her close combats. Technically, if you have swords dance, ice punch is usually fine enough for coverage, and importantly more reliable, but without swords dance ice punch will not knock out some major threats. While Fake Out is not as good as in doubles, it is still nice to have stab priority+free damage. It could be be changed for quick attack or maybe coverage or a stronger normal stab (where is my return?), but I have not needed it as of yet. I would be reluctant to change her of the team.
- Palafin with sitrus berry. This is a spdef set that allows you to basically always stay in and flip turn immediately, as only mons like Raichu Y can one-shot it. Bulk up first, then sweep with drain and jet.
- Sash Alakazam. For faster sweepers and stuff. Nasty plot is nice for reads when an opponent would switch. Currently, I have energy ball because it is about the only way this team can reliably take out Mega Swampert in rain.
- Volcarona with Lum berry. This is the Pokemon I just put on because it seemed to fit at the time, before I changed somethings. Probably I can change this one the best for another. But for now, this uses swarm to power up bug buzzes (of course flame body is also valid, but in bss there just seem to be less u-turns to catch.)

Some notable weaknesses:
- There is no Pokemon that by itself easily counters Charizard Y. With good play, it is not difficult to kill one, but since they often run solar beam Palafin doesn’t immediately wall it.
- No stealth rocks or hazards. Personally, I don’t think this is as important as in a 6v6.
- No hazard removal. I have so far found very few opponents who run this, but maybe it gets more prevalent higher up master with sash chomp leads?

My own suggestion:

Would this team be improved by swapping Volcarona for Garchomp? It doesn’t fix everything, but it kind of seems to fit well? Personally I just don’t like using the most used mons though, so if there is an alternative that could also improve it, I’d love to hear it. Feel free to suggest whatever you want.

My experience on ladder:
I got a win streak of 8, but that was before master rank so I don’t think it is SUPER impressive, just pretty cool. Obviously, I don’t have a lot to talk about for high ladder yet, because I haven’t had any high ladder matches. An older version of this team didn’t have pidgeot and Palafin and could not beat an araquinid, so that was quite embarrassing.

For rotom wash specifically, I found flip turn Palafin into Lopunny works well and usually kills, though they might wisp the Palafin.

After hearing me talking shit to him for his lackluster performance in august, Arcanine brought his older brother to put the meta in its place!

(Yes, we got the meta slightly earlier this time, its for special reasons)

35 Pokes is a metagame where you can only use a random selection of 35 mons we roll at the start of the month, very dynamic stuff. Join us on https://discord.gg/4249SPhd8W