I vote no to any wilderness/ PvP content that involves needing pvm stuff or dropping pvm related uniques.
I vote yes to all PvP updates that are for the pk end of the game, involve bh, PvP only rewards or mobs that drop only gp/resources that I can get elsewhere. It’s simple.
No pvm related uniques in the wilderness, it should be for pvpers, better xp training methods, or resources at accelerated rates but otherwise obtainable outside of the wilderness.
If it meets that criteria I vote yes, if not I vote no.
Even if I think wildy might deserve its own unique like the voidwaker, I full agree with this just based on the idea that pvp is forever stuck at an impasse now. There is so much outrage against the "being forced into the wilderness" concept that anything even tangentially pvp-related is getting spite voted forever.
No non-pvp uniques in the wilderness, just high xp or gp/hr, get rid of the idea that you're ever forced into it for any item, and then you can actually work on pvp again without that tainting every discussion
This is why it’s so frustrating that Jagex listens to this sub so often despite being a minority of the playerbase. These takes are egregiously fucking terrible .
It’s objectively good game design many MMOs have this concept of higher risk higher reward in PvP zones. This is just a stupid take. If you want to make food gp/h at relatively easy bosses the trade off is you can get attacked by other players osrs Redditors not comprehending this concept and just crying about it is so weird to me.
Albion online has almost exactly the same concept of osrs you get the highest tier resources in PvP zones where you can lose items wow has similar concepts in PvP zones where you can get more resources guild wars 2 in their world vs world game mode lets you farm certain Mats and items faster EVE online has a similar concept. The division had a similar concept called the red zone where loot was better but you risked being attacked by players. The idea behind adding pvm or NPC content in pvp zones is common in PvP games and MMO’s. But it has to have a trade off the trade off being yku get more gold more resources or in osrs’s case better gp/h or the ability to make an extremely strong weapon the voidwaker. This is like the only community that seems to hate this concept and it’s actually just irritated to listen to. They claim they are “forced” into the into the wilderness when the content is entirely optional. But they’ll use excuses like “muh collection log” or “muh spec weapon” but that’s the point the extra challenge to acquire these things is risk of PvP. I personally love this concept for both sides whether I’m the pker or the pvmer it’s fun either way but the way osrs players act around pvp is so weird.
Wow isn't remotely comparable, since the only real cost of dying in PvP is the inconvenience of respawning.
Eve online which in some ways is even more punishing on death (nothing like "protected items"), is an entire game designed around the premise of "ffa PvP, lose your stuff on death"
The wilderness in its current for is just shit game design, only kept alive by nostalgia and inertia
It’s designed like a pvp zone should be designed. You have pvm hot spots that offer a better loot table to make really easy really fast gp/h. These hot posts attract pkers who want to kill the pvmers thus making these places hotspots for other pkers who want to fight pkers for better loot. This is what makes rev caves such a good place to pk. Then you have other things like anti pking being popular as well and it’s really fun. Because so much of this sub are Ironman players they’ve developed an aversion to PvP and rather than engage with it at all they just get annoyed that they get killed for dragon hide because the game isn’t about fun anymore it’s about grinding a specific thing you feel forced into doing which they aren’t. And these Ironman players are a vocal minority on this sub that Jagex listens to. These concepts aren’t new for PvP games.
Because I disagree with the idea that there is a problem with the design. Albion is the best example because it’s almost exactly like osrs in the way that you lose items but gain better resources. I love it works great and I think it’s good in osrs too. I don’t think you have any valid points against it other than you don’t want to go into a pvp zone because you don’t like dying.
Or allow everyone to take part in PVM and just have harder boss mechanics to achieve that same trade off. You just get off on ruining other players experiences. You just like to grief people bro it’s okay.
The idea that pker’s are just horny to ruin someone’s experience is actually so fucking weird? Everyone can take part in wilderness PvP you just have to be ready to be attacked at some point. It’s actually delusional levels of cringe to call a pker a griefer.
See the thing is that pvm wilderness content is entirely optional. Nobody’s making you go. The incentive is say you want a really strong weapon like a voidwaker then you have to accept that there is risk involved in grinding for it. This is a concept seen in tons of MMOs and other PvP games but it’s only osrs Redditors that cry and bitch about it because they get upset when they die.
The difference is other MMO don't have as many cheese mechanics just by virtue of how the game works. Other games don't have bot networks just logging in for a sec and then out to track people running around, other games don't have a way for you to accidentally get tricked into dropping all your items (more of a newer player thing but still puts people off), other games also don't just have someone logs in and bops you the second they log in.
The gameplay is designed on cat and mouse not really traditional pvp and it's just not that fun with the wonky ness for the majority of people who play this game. I don't think the wildly should be removed cause it is iconic but I think the whole approach of "just get more pvm content in the wildly to give pkr's more victims" is just a dumb method of trying to incentivize it more cause that's only really designed for the pkr's enjoyment.
Well check this out this is by far the best time to do wilderness content because it’s record low levels of bots in game atm. Hell you could even do green drags again because the bones have doubled in price.
have you read this thread? one_shuckle_boy doesn't disagree with you
what you're claiming are "egregiously fucking terrible ." takes are that 1) it's chill to have accelerated content at the risk of dying and 2) there shouldn't be content exclusive to the risk-of-dying space (added commentary by me: in a game that official supports a "no dying" game mode)
now you're suggesting the trade off to good gp/h is being attacked by others. If one_shuckle_boy is "egregiously fucking terrible," so are you! but I wouldn't expect an osrs Redditor to be able to read and parse four sequential lines of text, so I guess this is what we get
It ain't just Wrathmaw. Every other piece never reaches 50%.
The only way they get Wilderness stuff to pass is by gatekeeping items behind it and offering no alternatives. If they polled the Voidwaker to be obtainable outside the wilderness, it never would've made it into the wildy either.
Yeah but both parts of your comment are just plain incorrect.
What parts of zombie pirates, wildy slayer and wildy bosses aren't related to pvp?? They all passed. Wrathmaw failed because it was a time gated event that would be camped by pvp clans.
The second part of your comment means nothing. That’s like saying “the only reason you get raids to pass is by gate keeping items behind it.” That means literally nothing all items are gate kept behind quests or bosses. That’s the entire point of the game.
Ah gotcha, so your random theory is correct while multiple passed polls are incorrect. Damn I didn't know you were clairvoyant. So you know for a fact that all wildy content would fail if it weren't for unlockable content?
Whatbad take? That the wilderness should offer insane gp/h and great xp/h training methods, too keep the ecosystem active, but remove uniques from the wilderness that are not used for the wilderness or PvP content. The rev weapons are fine, they are meant mainly for wilderness, voidwaker is not fine. It’s a BIS pvm weapon locked in the wilderness, make the VW spec not work outside of the wilderness and pvp and im fine with it.
The “ risk vs reward” system doesn’t even work, you just bring 3 good items (4) and rags, people use cctv alts, and even without, on average even when you die you net positive 80% of the time by the end of a night. Theres no risk encouragement just annoyance and frustration. If the rewards of the wilderness are only gp/xp/resources at accelerated rates there’s no “need” to go there for items that are objectively BiS. And you’ll have plenty of people not mad when they die.
Most of the time people only get mad when they die since it means they lose time, they don’t care about the 400k loot they got during their vetion trip. Because they’ve already made 3m before that.
The “reward” of the wilderness should be accelerated gp/xp. Not unique items used outside of the wilderness/pvp.
Theres 0 issue with good xp/gp coming from the wilderness for the risk, just let it be in resources attainable “slower” outside.
I’d agree with adding more “reward” to wilderness pvm content and possibly moving things like the dragon pickaxe to loot tables outside the wilderness. But the voidwaker works not only because it’s generally a PvP weapon but because it’s extremely powerful. It offers the perfect “if you want this really good weapon you need to take the risk” aspect to pvm in wilderness.
See we already have 2 d pick methods non wilderness, volcanic mine and KQ, so that doesn’t bother me, VW for the most part I don’t actually care about, I think it’s fine to have 1 real go PvP weapon that has use in pvm, but I don’t not want that being normalized, VW being THE wilderness item is fine, wildy weapons are fine since they mainly are used only there, the rings are fine since better alternatives exist outside of the wilderness.
I just don’t want any NEW clogs that are important pvm items being wilderness items.
In terms of the wilderness being strong for easy to do content that prints money/xp. That’s fine because the risk is you can lose all the gp dying or get shit xp rates when chased/killed.
I agree with you I think the way any wilderness pvm should work is offer better methods for resources or go or even better xp methods but with the risk of being attacked which is the direction Jagex went with the rejuvenation of the wilderness bosses. Even the update to wilderness agility letting you make a ton to alchables are the types of updates I like to see. And it helps created an ecosystem in the wilderness where the pvm activity draws pvpers and then those pvpers risking more than the pvmers will draw in more pkers it’s cyclical. This sub seemingly suffers from this idea that if a better method/item exists in the wilderness that they are “forced” to go and that’s what I don’t understand and sounds ridiculous to me.
That’s fair, I don’t like the idea of new good non PvP/wilderness items being added for the most part, I feel we have enough with VW, wildy weapons(niche but decent weapons outside at T70), and MA2 capes. But I have absolutely no problem with more gp/alchs/xp methods being used to bait people in. I just don’t want non PvP oriented uniques added. I’m fine with uniques that are pretty much PvP exclusive uses like a VLS(granted that specifically was stupid and busted).
But I do agree you say the word PVP and half the sub goes on fire. I enjoy PvP like lms, BH (sometimes based on brackets) I even enjoy wildy PvP. And anti pking. I don’t do it a lot but I don’t see why they couldn’t get updates
I just take issue with the large majority of people on this sub not understanding the purpose and dynamic of wilderness pvm and the way they seem to feel “forced” into doing it. It’s frustrating because I like it and I think it creates a perfect ecosystem. And because of that they instantly vote no on anything regarding that which sucks because pvp brings in the most eyes on osrs and it virtually gets no updstes. And the way this sub will psychoanalyze pkers and say they just enjoy bullying people or greifing pvmers is insane behavior to me. I’m not even sure how Jagex can mend the division between pkers and pvmers at this point maybe we just need more casual pvp options like LMS.
Everything you said is correct, and only jagex knows the answer, but at least IMO the way to make the majority of players not hate PvP content is by doing exactly what I listed, give alternatives for all wilderness uniques that have use outside of PvP (except voidwaker and rev weapons). Going forward everytime they poll a new item from a new wilderness boss or content, poll it with a way to obtain outside the wilderness slower.
Then crank the resources, xp,and gp by a good margin for wilderness content. The only reason people feel “forced” to go rn is because the items we want can “only” be gotten there. Nobody really complains about the rev caves, agility, rogues chests, chins because they all feel very opt in. Where the uniques you feel forced because you can’t get “close enough” without going in.
Hopefully we see something like that suggested I do worry that even added best gp/xp methods to the wilderness might also result in the same “I’m being forced to go” complaint but we’ll just have to wait and see.
Uniques that are pvm orientated from the wilderness only, makes mains and irons alike go into the wilderness with the sole objective of getting the unique item for pvm. The more they feel they “need” to go the wilderness for uniques(Ironman or costs a lot like Vw did). The more they will actively vote no to anything pvp related to make their time in the wilderness easier. Most people will always vote in self interest.
Mains can just buy it on the GE, youre really just disagreeing for the sake of disagreeing. Idk how it being slightly expensive creates the need to do the boss yourself instead of just doing doom for 5x the gp and doing it that way, or any other high end moneymaker.
Irons put themselves in that position? The only thing they “have” to do in the wilderness is mage arena, having no vw doesnt really affect your account
In what world is 2% mage damage and slight attack buff more important than bis spec weapon in most places??? Maybe if u own a shadow , outside mage cape is far from needed compared
PvM players like PvM content though, that's near universally true.
Putting it in the Wildy near universally makes it less fun for the people interested in the gameplay, in an attempt to make the players into content for pkers.
You must surely be able to see how that encourages pvmers (vast majority of the playerbase) to vote no to every instance of wildy pvm content.
Not if you’re iron. And as an iron there is no point in fighting back so we just have to try and play chase, which is kinda fucked with constantly getting frozen.
Self restricted gamemode. Vw is completely optional no CA requires/ is designed around it.
As an iron that is 4x dry on a voidwaker, there is def a point to fighting back. I can drop the loot keys to my main, they cant pk you while youre dead, half of them are shit and scared to lose there stuff and tab tele out once you fight back.
You have it completely backwards. At black chins you’re free to use your entire inventory and loadout for anti-pking or escaping, and you’re massively favored if anyone gets on you. At revs or wildy bosses your loadout is for killing the boss, crippling your ability to anti pk, especially at revs where it’s trolling to not be skulled
I mean realistically I’d consider them pvp weapons since outside of niche uses for the most part they are meant to be used in wilderness with buffs for that, and require wilderness essence to use. It IS grey, but unlike the VW which is a insane use for pvm all across the board, most of the wildy weapons outside of the wilderness are just alternative weapons, and the webweaver has like 1 niche use at Levi.
If the VW was nerfed spec outside of pvp/wildness(it could work in wildy pvm 100% untouched), it would realistically just be a tent whip sidegrade which is fine.
No because they're bis against other bosses both in and outside the wilderness. If they weren't bis against bosses outside of the wilderness AND bosses inside the wilderness didn't drop uniques that were bis against stuff outside the wilderness, then yes.
You do realize how the pvp ecosystem works right? They have to bring in pvmers or skillers because that incentivizes hot spots for pkers, which causes the whole food chain in the first place. Without that cycle, its essentially like killing off all the bees. If you want completely optional pvp, RS3 has that available.
Why don’t pkers want to fight the other pkers instead of easy targets? Why do easy prey need to be the basis, surely if pkers love pking so much then they should create pking hotspots instead amongst themselves
Did you read what I said? No pvm uniques, I don’t care if they want to bring pvmers in with high gp/hour loot goblin methods.
I’ve already said if an update for wilderness to “lure pvmers” for pkers, as long as that content isn’t unique item drops. I’m fine with it, lure pvmers with 5m gp/h in alchables and resources.
I’ve already said I’m fine with better xp/h skilling methods being wilderness exclusive.
You’ll get enough free loot players for the ecosystem off better skilling method and better resource/gp attaining methods. You don’t need uniques for pvm tied down by forced opt in PvP content.
But you as a salad robe pker, and not a real one can’t have any reading comprehension to understand I’ve already stated I’m fine with the ecosystem, just not the pvm uniques being locked to the area.
Im sorry you cannot read, NOWHERE did I state I wanted opt in pvp, but nice strawman
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u/one_shuckle_boy 7h ago edited 4h ago
I vote no to any wilderness/ PvP content that involves needing pvm stuff or dropping pvm related uniques.
I vote yes to all PvP updates that are for the pk end of the game, involve bh, PvP only rewards or mobs that drop only gp/resources that I can get elsewhere. It’s simple.
No pvm related uniques in the wilderness, it should be for pvpers, better xp training methods, or resources at accelerated rates but otherwise obtainable outside of the wilderness.
If it meets that criteria I vote yes, if not I vote no.