r/AcademicBiblical • u/AutoModerator • 1d ago
Weekly Open Discussion Thread
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u/LlawEreint 1d ago edited 1d ago
Very speculative question, following on a somewhat related question I put in a post.
Does Mark use the earliest layer of the Didache as a source?
I notice the Didache has very strict rules around who can participate in the Eucharist, and it ties this to a saying of Jesus that was likely used as a polemic against the gentiles:
let no one eat or drink of your Eucharist, unless they have been baptized into the name of the Lord; for concerning this also the Lord has said, "Give not that which is holy to the dogs."
Mark's feeding of the 5000 and feeding of the 4000 bookend a pericope in which Jesus agrees that even the dogs deserve the scraps. (Mark 7:24-30).
It seems the Didache also had a Eucharist liturgy that was related to the gathering of the 12 Jewish tribes:
9.4 As this fragment lay scattered upon the mountains and has been gathered to become one, so gather your Church from the ends of the earth into your kingdom. - https://www.alangarrow.com/uploads/4/4/0/3/44031657/the_didache_discoveries_booklet__11.5.23__copy.pdf
The feeding of the 5000 could be interpreted as a narrative depiction of the Didache Eucharist Liturgy. Mark then ends the sandwich with a feeding of the 4000 in the Decapolis - Gentile territory.
Jesus then seems perplexed that they don't understand:
When I broke the five loaves for the five thousand, how many baskets full of broken pieces did you collect?” They said to him, “Twelve.” 20 “And the seven for the four thousand, how many baskets full of broken pieces did you collect?” And they said to him, “Seven.” 21 Then he said to them, “Do you not yet understand?”
It seems to me that he's referencing the 12 tribes to be gathered under the 12 apostles and the 70 nations to be gathered under the 7 deacones (Acts 6:1-7). And look, he gave much more to the gentiles (5 for the 5000, but 7 for the 4000!).
The whole point being that yeah, Jesus did say "Give not that which is holy to the dogs," but don't you know that he acknowledged the dogs deserve the scraps?
And yeah, he did say that the unbaptized shouldn't be given the Eucharist - but didn't Jesus also feed the 4000? So shouldn't they also be baptized?
Is there a chance that Mark is in conversation with the Didache?
Let me know if there's a better way to understand this!
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u/LlawEreint 1d ago
Maybe a better question: Who's read Dr. Garrow's new book, and have you considered any implications that may follow from his theory?
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u/linquendil 1d ago
In last week’s hot takes thread there was a comment about the matter of Jesus’ sincerity. I wouldn’t go so far as to say that Jesus may have been actively deceiving his followers for personal gain — a hypothesis I find both unlikely and unfalsifiable — but I do wonder if there have been comparative analyses between ancient figures like Jesus and modern NRM types. I.e., is there something to be said about the common psychology of the latter, can we use that to understand the former, etc.
Is anyone aware of something like this?
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u/Feisty-Bowler7648 1d ago
any books about the ecumenical Councils? Nicaea? Ephesus?
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u/DerBokus7886 1d ago
On Nicea, check Samuel Fernández "Nicaea 325: Reassessing the Contemporary Sources" and "Fontes Nicaenae Synodi", Peter Leithart (who touches It if I remember correctly) "Defending Constantine", and the work of John Behr. For Ephesus "The Council of Ephesus of 431 Documents and Proceedings" by Price and Graumann
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u/Shinigami_1082000 1d ago
Currently reading Paula fredriksen's book From Jesus to Christ: The Origins of the New Testament Images of Christ, Second Edition and I found outstanding discoveries regarding the Jewish world around Jesus in the 1st century late second temple period:
1) It's not possible that the pharisees were at odds with everything Jesus said and did. Actually their portrait in the gospels are not historically accurate as they wouldn't get offended with Jesus claiming forgiveness by healing someone or doing good deeds in the Sabbath if necessary but it's just that the pharisees are the only Jewish group that were still alive after 70 CE so the gospels as post 70 CE were projecting their views towards the pharisees on Jesus time. Fredriksen mentioned that the pharisees weren't great in numbers as they were minority.
2) the high priest and other priests didn't deliver Jesus for crucifixion as they were offended of his teachings but they were afraid his message and eschatological apocalyptic teachings would bring conflict between Jews and Romans.
3) As for John the Baptist, John was an apocalyptic eschatological prophet who, like Jesus, preached for repentance as the end was near and so on. He had a huge number of followers and he wasn't preaching something new considering that fredriksen classified him with Jesus as charismatics. She added that "Nonetheless, what sealed John’s fate was not his message per se, but his message combined with his personal popularity. Such a preacher of such a message, with a committed following, could at any moment ignite revolt." Then why they didn't crucify the baptist like they did with Jesus? I already have read somewhere in this sub someone asking the same question about the baptist not getting crucified. I'm also wondering why fredriksen didn't consider his clash concerning Herod Antipas divorcing and then unlawfully wedding Herodias as historically accurate.
My question is: are there scholars who agree with her on the above points? As for point 1 she is highly mentioning E. P. Sanders and his work Jesus and Judaism but never read it before so can anyone check those facts?
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u/perishingtardis 21h ago
I'd like to pick up a rudimentary working knowledge of Greek, so that I feel in some sense "freed" by total reliance on English translations of the New Testament. Does anyone have any recommendations for the best way to do this in my spare time? Books are preferable to Youtube videos etc for me.
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u/perishingtardis 21h ago
I am in the process of writing a study guide for the gospel of Luke. I am mostly doing it for my own enjoyment of working through the material, but when (or if) it ever gets finished I may self-publish it on Amazon KDP. The target audience would be an educated lay-Christian who wishes to deepen their understanding of Luke, but does not want to pick up a technical commentary. The main text will take a narrative critical approach, but occasional insights from historical criticism will appear in the footnotes. As far as possible I am trying to let Luke do the talking, without injecting any irrelevant anecdotes, modern-day comparisons, or other irritating ways that many authors try to "bring the text to life".
The link below shows a draft of the section on the call of Levi and the banquet in Levi's house (Luke 5:27-39). I'd appreciate any comments or suggestions from anyone who takes a few minutes to read it. Thanks!
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1zjDjtR-6hrUttDpLPXDRVCH6_whnV5dr/view?usp=drive_link
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u/mcmah088 9h ago
u/Recent-Gur3699, I’m answering in the weekly open discussion thread because of the academic source requirement (I’m not sure if one can really have an adequate source). As a caveat, it’s probably going to depend on where you’re located. I can only speak to the US. I ended up doing a PhD in Comparative Literature (though my dissertation is on Rabbinic Literature). One of the most stressful things is trying to constantly find funding, and that funding is typically not good. Most students (myself included), regardless of their field, had to tighten their belts in the summer months. I got the vast majority of my funding through TAships, which in the US meant doing a lot of prep work for classes and grading. This ate into my study time and my dissertation writing time. It also took me a bit longer to write my dissertation because COVID hit in the middle of it.
I think a part-time program could be an issue because if you’re reliant on university funding, funding (and tuition remission) is often only awarded to full-time students. It depends on the program, but if you're doing coursework part-time, you'll probably have to take out loans (I wouldn't recommend that for graduate school) or find another way to fund your education.
A final thing to consider is that the job market is not good. (There are a lot of adjunct positions, but these are contingent, and often precarious.)
I am not necessarily saying that you shouldn't pursue a PhD, but I do think you should be aware of the stressors ahead of time.
(If you have any further questions, feel free to comment with them.)
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u/9c6 15h ago
Fun article on the holy spirit
https://hts.org.za/index.php/hts/article/view/3225/7763
The Holy Spirit as feminine: Early Christian testimonies and their interpretation
Johannes van Oort
Received: 22 Oct. 2015; Accepted: 02 Feb. 2016; Published: 19 Aug. 2016
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u/kamilgregor Moderator | Doctoral Candidate | Classics 1d ago
Has anyone ever looked into which D&D class and level Jesus would have to be in order to perform all the supernatural feats depicted in the Gospels?