r/AskProfessors • u/Zoda95 • 3d ago
Professional Relationships Is this normal professor/student behavior?
I initially posted this in r/Professors, but it was removed, so I’m posting here to get some perspectives.
I’m curious to get some outside perspectives on this because I’m not sure if I’m overthinking it.
My husband is 37 and a university professor. He often takes his students (both male and female) out for lunch. Recently, he has also started going out to bars with some of them on Saturday nights. They’re undergraduate students, around 21–23 years old.
He also told me that he’s in their Snapchat group.
I know professors can have friendly relationships with their students, and I’m not suggesting that anything inappropriate is necessarily happening. I’m just wondering where the normal boundaries are here.
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u/PurrPrinThom 2d ago
With the caveat that institutional/country culture does seem to play a factor, especially when it comes to the bar thing.
It has never been unusual, in my experience, for professors to take undergraduates to lunch, or to join them at a pub/bar for an evening. There has always been, as example, a weekly pub night, with an open invitation for anyone from the department to meet at a specific pub around a specific time.
However, typically always in groups. It would be strange to take a single undergraduate to lunch, or to go to a pub with just one undergrad. A possible exception being if they were supervising the student, then meeting at a pub to eat/have a pint or two and discuss their work would not be unusual.
That's why it is also not unusual, in my experience, for professors to take their graduate students (whether on their own, or in a group) to lunch or to join them at the pub.
The Snapchat group I find weird, but I think that's mostly because I don't know anyone my age or older who still uses Snapchat. If it were a Slack or Discord channel, and they mostly just talk about the class, I don't know that it's that strange. I would find it weirder if it was a platform (e.g. Whatsapp) that required the students to have access to his phone number.
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u/Deweymaverick 2d ago
I agree this is entirely dependent on the culture of the college.
I teach full time a community college but I adjunct at a few places. One place I do work for, faculty specifically have a budget for this kind of activity: it’s informally required for them to do as as “student outreach.” Granted, one on one lunches is largely for the upper class students, and they’re expected to help them with life after graduation, etc. so it’s… an extended form of advising.
As an old, yeah the Snapchat is strange but I also don’t care for discord, lol. But if the students already made a group and asked him to join, that does make sense.
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u/PurrPrinThom 2d ago
Yeah, I would never want to be in a groupchat with my students. But, if it's primarily about the class, and they post questions in there about the assessments or studying, I can see it not feeling inappropriate.
If it's a mostly personal chat, then I would find probably find it strange, regardless of medium.
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u/Deweymaverick 2d ago
Just… from my work-life perspective, I both love and hate messanger (in blackboard). I’m glad that all student “emails” are tied to a class so I know who’s asking about WHICH paper due date, or which discussion board they f’ed up. BUT I also hate having “vital” communications in two different places.
I’d scream if I “had” to keep track of a 3rd or 4th.
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u/Another_Opinion_1 Associate Ins./Ed. Law and Teacher Ed Methods/USA 2d ago edited 2d ago
At least in the US, the rules are going to be all over the place on this, but most institutions either frown on or prohibit a certain level of fraternization with students. It’s not unheard of for instructors to meet students for a casual lunch in a public setting. Meeting students at a bar is probably more frowned on than it was in the past, but the Snapchat thing is over the top. I’d say all of it combined is blurring boundaries, but I don’t know whether or not any of it is explicitly prohibited at his institution.
Another risk, of course, is that when boundaries are relaxed to this degree those are the type of situations that end up resulting in someone getting too comfortable on either side of the equation, and the end result is inappropriate behavior and then allegations of impropriety against the instructor that don’t tend to end well.
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u/quasilocal 2d ago
I think meeting them somewhere and socialising is fine. In fact, I'd say I socialise with students I meet out and about more than most professors would and living in a small city I tend to run into some students most weekends I'm out and will always chat with them if I see them (I'm 40M for reference). But joing their Snapchat groups and making actual plans to go out with them on Saturday night is weird AF mid-life crisis material to me.
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u/TechnicalRain8975 2d ago
The pub is only normal if it starts after work and ends around dinner time—and if other faculty are there too!
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u/ProfessorHomeBrew Associate Prof, Geography (USA) 2d ago
What country? What type of university?
This was common 20 years ago in the US but not anymore.
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u/alecorock 2d ago
Hanging out with undergraduates in the US would be considered unprofessional and the drinking part is inappropriate. Beyond what is says about their personality, all it takes is one complaint to start at Title IX investigation. So- both weird and professionally irresponsible.
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u/Eigengrad TT/USA/STEM 1d ago
Drinking with students, yes.... but having lunch or taking students out for meals is quite common everywhere I've worked.
A meal where students who are of age buy themselves drinks? Also not a problem anywhere I've worked.
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u/elise_oisen_ 2d ago
I would add the caveat (while not true in OP’s case), that it was common at my undergraduate institution to have research lab outings at restaurants where people had drinks as well. However, these were labs with junior to tenured faculty, early and late stage grads, and undergrads who were preparing for PhD programs. Large groups, varied levels, and by drinks I mean a margarita or beer at a Mexican restaurant type of thing. All arranged via email and in-person lab meetings. I was always only one of two undergrads in those groups and it was good experience because I was so outrageously shy and afraid to speak to faculty that it helped pad the transition to PhD. That said I never ever had a drink and I don’t remember any undergrad having one either. (US)
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u/No_Young_2344 2d ago
I do take my students for lunch during weekdays but not bars and never on the weekends. But I am just one data point.
However when I was a grad student, my professor occasionally took us to a bar across the street of our department for a happy hour on Fridays. But the professor always left in an hour and let us have fun on our own but they would pay for it (edit: no alcohol).
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u/WarriorGoddess2016 2d ago
Female professor here. I would never go to a bar casually with my undergrads. If it was, say, a group graduation party, sure, I'd stop by.
Ph.D. students, I did go to happy hour with in my youth, but to be fair, none of them were my students and we were the same age.
I always left after an hour or so, never had more than 2 drinks, and never went to the after party.
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u/ocelot1066 2d ago
Yeah, I think "casually" is the right qualifier. It's not really different for any kind of activity. Voluntary class trip to a baseball game? Great. But, texting a couple of undergrads about whether they want to go to the baseball game? Weird.
A professor can be friendly with students but when they are treating them as their buddies, that's not good.
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u/machinegal 2d ago
All it takes is one “bad” grade and things could take a horrible turn. I would find it difficult to grade fairly if they are too familiar. I think some distance is professional.
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u/Mewsie93 Adjunct/Social Sciences 12h ago
Plus, if this professor is in the U.S., I would be worried about Title IX.
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u/Mewsie93 Adjunct/Social Sciences 12h ago
Female professor here too. Honestly, even 20+ years ago when I was younger and more carefree, I would never socialize with my students until after they graduated. As I now teach only at community colleges, I get some non-traditional students more my age, but that rule of thumb still holds.
When I was an undergrad, I did have casual lunches with my advisors, but only during the week. If a professor hung out with us at a bar though? Super weird. That crosses boundaries for me.
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u/simone_snail_420 Assistant Professor/Philosophy/Canada 2d ago
Lunch is fine.
For me and my culture (I'm a prof in Canada), bars and Snapchat with undergrads definitely cross a line...
I would have a talk with him about this if you haven't yet.
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u/PurrPrinThom 2d ago
Can I ask (broadly) where in Canada? Because my experience re: bars is very different. e.g my undergraduate institution in SW ON used to have, and still has, weekly pub nights where professors and students both go.
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u/Ismitje Prof/Int'l Studies/R1[USA] 2d ago
Is this open to all and attended by several at least?
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u/PurrPrinThom 2d ago
Yes, they're always open to anyone in the department. Most professors don't go every week, but it's not unusual for one or two to be there at a time. Typically, the last one before the semester ends sees everyone stop by for at least a little bit.
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u/simone_snail_420 Assistant Professor/Philosophy/Canada 2d ago
Oh this changes things. I thought it was JUST him going to bars with the undergrads!
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u/PurrPrinThom 2d ago
Oh I'm not the OP! It might be. This comment is just about my experience with pub nights with undergrads.
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u/simone_snail_420 Assistant Professor/Philosophy/Canada 2d ago
I'm also in SW ON! I have pretty strict boundaries w undergrads for myself. Maybe other people are more relaxed about it. With graduate students I'm much more chill. Especially because I only recently finished my PhD (two years ago)
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u/lavenderc 2d ago
I think there is a difference between a university organized event at a bar and meeting students at a bar informally. I think the former is ok, the latter is less so
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u/PurrPrinThom 2d ago
I don't know of anywhere where the university formally organizes it. It's always informally organized by the department/faculty. Sort of like, "we go to X pub every Wednesday."
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u/popstarkirbys 2d ago
I take my lab and club members out for lunch once per semester. I have a no alcohol rule when I’m paying. It depends on the institution type, but being too friendly with students can be a double edged sword.
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u/ArchaeoVimes Associate Professor/Social Sciences/[USA] 2d ago
Your use of bars makes me think you’re likely in the US or perhaps Canada, so I’ll give the US perspective, from a public institution that’s part of a state university system.
The first example: group lunches (note GROUP), with multiple students. Fine. I wouldn’t bat an eye. A coffee with an individual student here and there to discuss research that’s being supervised, or career or grad school advice, also fine.
Drinking at a bar on a Saturday night? On a regular basis? Absolutely not. As well as being in a Snapchat group. I can’t think of a single student I teach, or even work with closely, what wouldn’t find that incredibly awkward and off putting. Like drinking with your parents as a teenager.
I don’t know the situation, but it definitely seems like a distinct lack of boundaries, and a recipe for disaster. Not just with Title IX, but with interpersonal relationships, favoritism, and the inevitable fallout of what happens when one of these students gets a bad grade? You can’t be that kind of friend with undergrads: being a drinking buddy and a mentor doesn’t work.
I distinctly wonder if your husband, if he’s at a US institution that has similar unwritten boundaries and rules of student/professor interactions, isn’t going through some kind of midlife crisis and an attempt to reclaim a youthful experience he’s missing.
Finally, with the assumption that he’s at a similar institution to what I referenced, even if nothing goes wrong, the departmental gossip and colleague perceptions, rightly or wrongly, can be a career ender, or at least a tenure ender.
Everything outside of lunch with groups of students is just a bad idea, and definitely outside the norm in my experience. Even at European universities I worked at it would be looked at askance.
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u/playingdecoy 2d ago
Context: US, woman (former) prof.
This is more familiar than I would be comfortable with, myself. I'll happily take a student to lunch or coffee, but probably not to a bar (I don't drink anyway so it wouldn't be a place I'd choose). I definitely wouldn't be in a group chat with them unless it was something specifically for our lab/working group to share schedules or important information. Definitely not just a casual thing.
But I think gender colors this a lot. I keep strict professional boundaries because I think women get judged differently for these things than men - in fact, my perspective is definitely informed by a situation when I was a grad student and a young woman professor was criticized by the other faculty for being too familiar with students. It was seen as her identifying too much with students (who, frankly, were probably closer to her age than the other professors!) and not being professional, and she abruptly pulled back and stopped hanging out with students in that way. That said, as grad students we did go to a couple of gatherings at professors' houses, but it was always like... "The professor is inviting we students over to socialize," not "We're all socializing together," if that distinction makes sense.
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u/Pragmatic_Centrist_ Senior Lecturer/Social Science/US 2d ago
I think gender colors this in the opposite way too. As a male Prof. I would not put myself in a position to be accused of anything at a bar. Lunch or coffee? Sure. A bar on the weekends? Absolutely not.
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u/playingdecoy 2d ago
Totally, in some ways I am.. safer? But then again, still wouldn't want to put myself in a weird situation with anyone. Better to maintain strong boundaries, imo.
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u/popstarkirbys 2d ago
I’ve seen students at sport bars during the World Cup. I told them I’ll talk with them but won’t drink with them.
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u/popstarkirbys 2d ago
I’ve seen my students at sport bars during the Super Bowl and World Cup, I told them I won’t drink with them.
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u/Another_Opinion_1 Associate Ins./Ed. Law and Teacher Ed Methods/USA 2d ago
I have worked in K-12 and I’ve heard more than one story from now retired teachers who would recollect how administrators would call women in and admonish them for being out hobnobbing at bars on weekends or evenings. This was particularly prevalent in smaller communities as recently as the mid to late 20th century.
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u/popstarkirbys 2d ago
I was reading some rules for teachers in the 1850s, apparently ladies weren’t allowed to be seen with alcohol back in the days. Maybe the principal is from the 1850s.
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u/Another_Opinion_1 Associate Ins./Ed. Law and Teacher Ed Methods/USA 2d ago
Yep, it’s long been a female dominated profession and the teacher as exemplar standard persisted well into the 20th century. Old fashioned morality clauses were common even into the 1980s in some areas and they could be quite rigid.
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u/popstarkirbys 2d ago
Yea, the gender thing is definitely tough. I’ve treated my undergrad student researcher for lunch when we’re out collecting data, we’re the same gender. I’ve driven students to places for class, but I usually ask them to form a group if the opposite gender is involved. When I was in grad school, a female student accused a male graduate student of sexual harassment when they were out collecting data, the guy was the driver and they were in the same car. It became a shitshow cause they were the only parties involved.
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u/StevieV61080 2d ago
This has been an interesting thread for me to read as the responses are pretty different from what I would have expected. For me, the answer is a resounding, "No, that's not Ok." However, I am also incredibly antisocial and hate social functions of almost any type. Factor in my own experiences seeing fraternization cause serious harm and my immediate response was a, "Hell no," to all of this.
With that said, when I first started teaching, I DID once join a student club-run event in our commons area where there was a Guitar Hero competition and my students had a lot of fun competing with me after they presented a group project at the end of class time. Things like that? I think showing a human side is generally acceptable.
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u/machinegal 2d ago
I agree with you and am a bit perplexed at all of the responses saying this behavior is ok especially with a male professor. The optics are just not good. There are plenty of events where students and faculty can interact on campus.
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u/PatientAmphibian5081 2d ago edited 2d ago
Just went through faculty orientation at a new university. The general counsel specifically mentioned things like what you described your husband doing as things to AVOID. She said everyone thinks they’re the exception to something going wrong until it happens to them.
Boundaries prevent lawsuits or accusations that can derail not just your husband’s career but his grad students’. And if he wants to professionalize his students, teaching them how to practice appropriate boundaries starts with modeling them.
& just in general when I was a grad student it sucked when other students could get more access to a professor (and more career support) bc they went out drinking together or (this was the 2000s) made them mix CDs. I had a small child at home and didn’t want to/couldn’t participate in the off-hours scene.
Edited to add: re-read your post & realized your partner is working primarily with undergrads. Even more reason to model appropriate boundaries. Even if your husband is not preying on students, there are PLENTY of old head professors who think it’s still the 1980s & that 19 year olds will be okay being objectified and pursued by a 60-year old. Gross. And when “good guy” profs allow for amorphous boundaries, it can be confusing for students to know how to enforce healthy boundaries against the grossbags.
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u/WingShooter_28ga 2d ago
First bit, absolutely.
Second bit, absolutely not. This is opening himself up for serious issues. Saturdays at the bars in a college town are NOT the place a professor should find themselves.
Third bit, absolutely not. This is opening himself up for serious issues.
Caveat to the second bit, we will go out to the pub after work on weekdays if someone has something of note to celebrate and that’s what they enjoy.
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u/Objective_Bear4799 2d ago
University admin here …. Your husband needs to stop now. Assuming US based, he is opening himself up possible title IX concerns and possibly termination depending on his contract/union.
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u/Eigengrad TT/USA/STEM 1d ago
You're being way too broad with this statement. I've worked at multiple schools where this is quite common, in the US.
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u/mankiw TT/USA 2d ago edited 2d ago
You may get flooded with "this is predatory behavior" type comments because this is reddit, but I think this is heavily context dependent; it isn't prima facie good or bad behavior.
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u/WingShooter_28ga 2d ago
Time/day matters with the second issue. Nothing good can come from going out to the bar on a Saturday night with students.
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u/BolivianDancer 2d ago
It's not unheard of and if it's becoming less prevalent that may have to do with the students.
Try communicating with semi-literate halfwits and see how you feel.
I'd rather go to lunch with pensioners than 21 year olds any day.
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u/StorageRecess Admin/STEM/R1 2d ago
Lunch seems fine. After seminars or for a celebration, I used to take my lab out for a beer. I’d buy a pitcher (or non-alcoholic equivalent if needed) and then vanish. They could stay and hang out as long as they wanted. But I have a husband and kids I’d rather see than party all night with someone else’s kids.
But that was always the whole unit for a happy hour, not one or two students and not undergrads. Even if it’s totally innocent, the potential for someone to snap a picture that looks very bad out of context is high. If he’s out with undergrads, is it a student bar? Could his in-class students be there? Everyone has a camera these days, which was not true when I started.
Whether or not this is “normal,” and I would say it isn’t, you seem uncomfortable. That’s a real problem.
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u/Novel_Move_3972 2d ago
Regardless of gender, it is not normal for professors to go out to bars with undergraduate students. Occasional lunches with students or dinners with groups of students (after an event, speaker, or conference, for instance) are typical.
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u/pinkdictator Neuroscience/US 2d ago
I'm a PhD student, but I just have to say - this is weird, at least in the US. I've gotten drinks with a professor as an undergrad, but only because I worked in his lab and it was a whole lab outing. So there were technicians and postdocs there too (as well as some other people). Never in my life would I use personal social media like Snapchat with a professor.
And if I'm being honest (again, at least in the US) even if you take away the professional/academic context, a 37 year old drinking with a bunch of 22 year olds is weird to me. Idk, maybe if there were other professors there too, it would be less weird? But this seems strange
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u/jesjorge82 Associate Teaching Professor, Technical Communication 2d ago
As a female prof, I would never want to be a part of my students snapchat group nor go out to bars with them. I may have a drink with a grad student, but never an undergrad. I have had undergrads to my house, but it was dinner during a final exam period and it wasn't required to come to dinner, just required to turn in a paper. In closing, I think your husband needs boundaries.
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u/Downtown_Hawk2873 2d ago
Sorry but this behavior is simply inappropriate and it doesn’t matter where you live or work. Your husbandhas no business snapchatting, discording or going to bars with students . And I think you know this deep down which is why you are posting here. I hope you find the courage to speak up.
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u/Environmental_Bug662 2d ago
In the US, this is completely inappropriate. I am a tenured Full Prof at a SLAC. Treating students in your class to lunch is gifting them something and that is wrong re: the power imbalance. Drinking in bars with them--NO! Major boundary violations and tbh it could be perceived as "grooming."
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u/Eigengrad TT/USA/STEM 1d ago
Also at a SLAC.
Lunch with students? Pretty common at multiple SLACs I've worked at, especially with research students, TAs, etc.
Drinking? Probably crossing a line. Depends on the context, if it's a group, and if you're buying alcohol for them.
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u/SnowblindAlbino Professor/Interdisciplinary/Liberal Arts College/USA 2d ago edited 2d ago
I have had one colleague in the US that regularly went to bars with students. He married one of them eventually, but it didn't last. He's now remarried someone much closer to his age and no longer hangs out with students. Literally no other professor on our faculty in the 20+ years I've been here has been known to hang out at the "student bars" near campus, we actually all avoid them even when the students are gone in summer.
I personally have gone to non-student bars with students a few times, but in every case I was treating a class to a celebration around graduation-- "I'll buy you all a beer when you graduate" was a pledge I'd made to a class years in advance. Lunch, coffee, whatever, we do that all the time. We play pub trivia with them in the summers too. But hanging out at the bar on Saturday nights with students, rather than with my partner? No, that's not something I see people doing (other than the one guy mentioned above).
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u/security_dilemma 2d ago
In the US, I was always told hanging out with undergrads in bars is a big no no. I understand going to a restaurant together if you are teaching about a specific part of the world. The closest I have been in a group chat with undergrads is on GroupMe to coordinate club activities.
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u/Confident-Ad5248 2d ago
As an adjunct professor and recent MFA graduate, the Snapchat group is weird. If I were him, I would be worried about a student deciding to report me, or a student misconstruing boundaries and the context of our relationship.
I do agree with others who have said it might depend on the culture of the college.
In my experience, I wouldn’t be comfortable taking undergraduate students out for lunches or dinners, but it largely depends on the way in which a professor controls the group, tone, and intentions of the meeting. Is it school related? On campus? Close to campus? A large group?
For me, most undergraduate students these days are barely thinking at a high school level, and lack a lot of emotional maturity which would make me struggle with the vibe. If I went out to bars with them and things got messy, I would worry about the repercussions of that.
Sometimes as an undergrad, I went out to lunch with my academic advisor and english professor, but we’re both women. I think sometimes those situations can be awkward or feel different if, say, professor was a man. A lot of it depends on age, gender, etc. I would also trust that a professor would know the boundaries and only go out with students who they knew were more emotionally intelligent and mature.
I knew all of my graduate school faculty because I went to the same place for undergrad, and I was pleasantly surprised at how once I was a grad student, they did a lot more. They joined Halloween parties, drank with us casually, did a lot with our graduate group because we were such a close knit community, and a community of graduate-level, mature adults. I appreciated how they were able to tell the difference between undergrad and grad learners, and that relationship is something that should be built over time. That’s my two cents.
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u/machinegal 2d ago
The larger question is why would a professional want to go to a bar with a student? I find that odd, at least in the U.S. I assume an older adult has a personal life of their own. There are campus events for students and faculty to interact.
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u/machinegal 2d ago
Also, I wonder if you’re asking because you are uncomfortable with your spouse doing this. I sure would be. I would expect them to spend time with their peers and other social groups not with students during non working hours.
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u/NotAFlatSquirrel 2d ago
Drinking at bars with students is a hard pass. I know when I was in my 30s and teaching, I was still young enough that some misguided students would occasionally try to flirt with me. I would be very careful to keep things professional and keep conversations strictly in the professor/student realm, even if I was having a meal or coffee with an occasional student.
I have never been in active Snapchat or group chats with students, unless it was related to a project or school club. I also don't gove my personal cell phone number to students.
That said, I do know many other instructors who do give out their personal cell numbers, I know some who invite students to holiday meals in their home and similar.
The only faculty I know who drink with students have done so at conferences or work-related dinners and everyone was pretty careful about it, and it was as a group, not with individual students.
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u/missusjax 2d ago
As a point, I do not take any students out anywhere or allow them to pay for me while they are actively my student at my institution. Campus culture or not, I don't want to be on the news. I have once or twice treated a past student alumnus to coffee when they came to me for job advice because I know how hard that can be for kids starting out.
We have a few middle aged male faculty who are far too friendly in my opinion with students and while I don't think anything improper is going on, I do worry about the impression it gives. It doesn't take much for a false allegation to destroy a professor's reputation. I think your husband is trying to be everyone's friend but he isn't, he's their professor, there is an inherent power dynamic that will always exist in those roles.
Have you tried spinning this back on him and asking how he would feel if you were taking your (coworkers/clients/students/fill-in-the-blank) out the way he was? Some men are just aloof and when presented as their wife doing the same thing, they will get upset or realize things. But it is also entirely possible there is more going on too so be prepared for that. We have had more than our fair share of (generally male) professors sleeping with students.
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u/Lief3D 2d ago
It seems fine until it's not. It just takes one person to start throwing accusations around and then you are done. It doesn't even need to be one of the students he goes out with. Academia can be incredibly gossipy.
Edit: I also want to add that I couldn't imagine hanging out with a 21 year old. I'd feel more like a chaperone because the world experience and maturity level is so different.
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u/Master_Zombie_1212 2d ago
Normal if it is a club group and he is the mentor. For example, an economics club where he is the group advisor. He should not be drinking any alcohol and should leave at a decent time, such as 9 pm. My mentor took us out a lot; we paid our own way; we did a lot of team-building and social discussions. The mentor was always professional and often brought their partner along. He would buy us appies and expense them to the club.
Not normal if no purpose.
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u/SpryArmadillo Prof/STEM/USA 2d ago
You will (and already have) get differing opinions on this. Universities come in all different shapes and sizes. Same for professors (introverted vs. extroverted; casual with students vs. keeping a rigid professional distance). So student-faculty socialization varies a lot.
IMO, student-faculty socialization is good and should be encouraged, but with some important limits. E.g., you shouldn't be hanging out with one subset of students in your class at the exclusion of others (i.e., avoid favoritism). Also, there is a difference between grabbing a round of drinks shortly after work hours and spending the night out drinking with students. The latter opens you up to all kinds of issues.
I'd personally avoid the snapchat group unless it was related to an academic purpose. E.g., if the students are in a club or organization I'm the mentor for or they are students in my research lab and the group is for lab-related conversations (though then that would be a group I own and invite them into).
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u/-Economist- 2d ago
I’m in USA and there is a 0% chance I’d ever do this. I don’t even have office hours in my office. They are held in open public areas.
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u/Think-Priority-9593 2d ago
The best seminar I ever had was joining my supervisor and other grad students for lunch. It always evolved into detailed discussions of relevant topics.
Saturday at a bar is very, very wrong.
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u/Prestigious-Tea6514 2d ago
If he 'invites in circles' and it's part of the campus culture, it's probably ok from the college's standpoint. But it doesn't have to be OK with you.
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u/Sharp-Rutabaga-4900 2d ago
Personally, I think that crosses boundaries but it depends on the culture of the college.
I won’t even be friends with my students on social media and don’t share my phone number.
In graduate school, going out for drinks was not uncommon but never as an undergrad unless there were other faculty present at a special event.
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u/Theoreticalwzrd 2d ago edited 2d ago
I'd say the Snapchat thing is pushing it into inappropriate, in my opinion. I'm 37 and I'd not really feel comfortable if my undergrads were following me on something like Instagram or Facebook (I don't have Snap). The lunch thing is okay. The drinks things could be okay. I've been a grad student in a group where the whole group would go for dinner/ drinks including the undergrads. If it's only the undergrads he's taking out though and there are grad students in the group, that feels a bit odd to me.
Once I started teaching, I put my accounts to private to prevent things like students finding me. Not sure if snap has that as a option, but I'd maybe have a talk with him about possibly removing them for safety reasons (his and theirs).
Edit to add: US, female, large R1 institution if any of that matters. My spouse is male also R1 same age and additionally felt that drinks could be inappropriate but the Snapchat thing pushed it to definitely inappropriate.
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u/simone_snail_420 Assistant Professor/Philosophy/Canada 2d ago
OP, can you clarify: is he going to the bars with just him and undergrads? Or alongside other profs? This makes a big difference imo
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u/ProfTimelord 2d ago
If it makes you uncomfortable you should talk with your husband about it. Your marriage comes first.
Second ask your husband, or find out without asking, what the university policy on faculty/student contact is. My current institution is very lax about it. My previous institution had very clear rules like a faculty member was prohibited from giving a student a ride anywhere on or off campus to prevent them being alone in a car together.
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u/machinegal 2d ago
In the U.S. I think it’s very, very odd to fraternize with students unless it’s a school related event. A professional should have their own peers and social gatherings.
Edit: Also, does your school have Title IX? I cannot imagine risking my career due to a misunderstanding.
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u/nocuzzlikeyea13 2d ago
I take my grad students & postdoc out for dinner to celebrate big wins or new papers coming out. We don't go to bars together, but I will have a drink with dinner.
It's not a regular thing, and I rarely do it on nights when they'd rather be socializing with people their age. It's like a Tuesday work dinner when it happens.
Kind of like speaker dinner but just my group.
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u/shehulud 2d ago
The creeper who got a special invite to the title IX office had this kind of behavior. He was told to stop because that, mixed with inappropriate behavior toward students, was becoming very problematic. Which is not your situation, but you can see how it might be used in potential cases in the future—should any come up.
Your husband having these social interactions is not something I would personally do with undergrads. Grad students? Maybe. But I feel like it’s blurring the lines a bit too much for me.
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u/drmickmorrison 1d ago
In Australia (FWIW), this is frowned upon and unconventional. The appropriate behaviour is to keep out of student snapchats and lives. Occasionally, one might join a group of students for a drink/meal after a semester ends, or once an intensive/short course/field school finishes, with all students and staff involved. Or graduation, of course. But that is an exception to the rule of not fraternising with students in RL or online. I guess there are cultural differences here too, but I’m confident that it’s rare in most Aussie universities.
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u/Business-Gas-5473 2d ago
I am personally, seriously, extremely jealous of your husband. I envy the colleague who has time for such things.
As I always tell my wife: I wish I had enough free time to have an affair. Not that I would have an affair, but I would use that time to finally get some rest, and catch up on work stuff.
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u/Deweymaverick 2d ago
Just a quick question- you two are married,’so if…. You’re worried about him cheating, are you talking to him about it?
Also, I assume since you want to “outside perspective” on this, you think it’s weird or inappropriate.
When you asked him about it, what was his response? Why is he doing it? Why did he say?
(And I’m sure you got a response from r/professors, but the rules of the subreddit states that it is for faculty to speak to other faculty, that is very likely why your post was taken down)
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u/danceswithsockson 2d ago
It doesn’t really bother me. If I was single and bored, I’d go out with the kids more. I’d always stay in public places and I’d never have more than a beer or two.
As a married person, I’d prefer to spend time with my spouse. Even if they came with me once in a while to meet the kids. And as you, I’d be miffed he’s choosing to spend so much off time with them instead of you.
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u/Philosophile42 2d ago
I did this with some of my profs in college. I teach at the CC so this wouldn’t really be practical since they’re mostly under 21. But I’d totally go to lunch with them.
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u/AutoModerator 3d ago
This is an automated service intended to preserve the original text of the post. This is not a removal message.
- I initially posted this in r/Professors, but it was removed, so I’m posting here to get some perspectives.
I’m curious to get some outside perspectives on this because I’m not sure if I’m overthinking it.
My husband is 37 and a university professor. He often takes his students (both male and female) out for lunch. Recently, he has also started going out to bars with some of them on Saturday nights. They’re undergraduate students, around 21–23 years old.
He also told me that he’s in their Snapchat group.
I know professors can have friendly relationships with their students, and I’m not suggesting that anything inappropriate is necessarily happening. I’m just wondering where the normal boundaries are here.*
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u/Classic_vortex_3515 2d ago
As others have noted, this is institutionally and regionally somewhat variable. Regarding the bars on Saturday nights, I would ask him whether any of his colleagues are there as well. Even if your husband means nothing untoward, it is not uncommon for undergraduate to develop crushes on faculty members in this sort of situation. If there aren’t any other grown-ups there to tell him, he might not notice. But also, as others have noted, if there aren’t any other grown-ups there to vouch for his behavior, he opens himself up to various sorts of claims.
All that said, my favorite professor in undergrad used to have a group of us to his home for dinner once a year. These kinds of personal connections mean a lot, and can actually have lots of educational purpose.
But bars are a powder keg.
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u/Ok-Rip-2280 2d ago
I take my research students out for dinner/lunch/coffee a couple times a year to thank them for their work. I don’t do this with students for my classes (they are too many). I will also happily invite an individual student out to lunch/coffee if they are seeking career advice. If I have summer students then probably more often (once a week maybe)
Re: “bars” My students are rarely over 21, and law prevents me from buying alcohol so if we go to a place that serves it they can buy it for themselves if they can legally drink and want to. None have done so.
I think this is more than I would do but it’s not too crazy.
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u/crowdsourced 2d ago
At the end of the semester for a senior-level course, that also had grad students in it, I’ve gone out with students to celebrate the end of the semester. That’s it. We’ve been encouraged to take our mentees out for lunch as part of our retention and recruitment efforts.
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u/Independent-Paper-21 2d ago
I take my students out once in a while as a *treat*. And I reserve this for 3xy level classes or grad students. Bad blurring of a bright line if you ask me.
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u/Stephapokus 2d ago
I don’t hang out with my students until they graduate. And then only in groups or if they are joining the PhD program.
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u/PowerfulWorld1912 2d ago
i don’t think it’s normal. it would have been seriously frowned upon any of the types of schools i’ve taught at, be it religious, community college, “elite,” state, slac, etc. it might not be anything nefarious but he is opening himself up to risk, blurring the lines on relationships, and also, mo offense, being weird. he should stop and find a different outlet for social activities. there’s very little upside and a lot of downsides to communicating with students that much out of class imo
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u/moosy85 2d ago
- Saturdays are weird. He's actively seeking them out then, it doesn't sound related to work
- You sound uncomfortable with it, and that should be enough for him to realize that maybe it's not a good idea to fraternize with students on the weekends.
I personally don't do that in the US, but in the European country I'm form, my advisor would frequently chat about my dissertation over coffee or beer, and he'd invite me to his wife's parties. But there it's more the norm. At my American uni, I don't see it very often 1-on-1 because it's one complaint and you're out. I sometimes see a professor do a type of group meeting but it's related to work. Lunches very rarely, because if they invite them, you're paying and most of us don't make that much.
Ask which of the students were there. If he's only mentioning one (and their friend, and their boyfriend, whatever), then he should be more careful than if it's a smaller group of folks he's mentoring. If he's not advising them, though, it becomes a bit weird. You do get a bad reputation really easily, because why does a middle aged man want to hang out with early twenty year old and impressionable women? It literally takes one staff member or faculty to ask that question and uni can step in.
To be fair, it's a question I have as well about your husband. Is he their thesis mentor or just teaching them? Thesis/PhD mentor i would understand it more than just teaching. Does he understand there's a power imbalance because he teaches them or advises them? They may not feel they can say no, especially if he still has to grade them.
I think the weekend stuff is a hard no for me, as he's going into personal-time territory, and straying away from the link to university.
I'd feel very uncomfortable if my husband did this, or my friend, or my dad. (None of them are professors but you know what I mean).
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u/ReedBalzac 2d ago
uhhhhhh....NO. Not normal. Lunch at the school cafeteria? I've done that several times. Meeting up at a bar? He better look over the Master Agreement carefully.
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u/nasu1917a 2d ago
definitely not undergrads. I'd take the entire lab out to lunch. And if the lab celebrates a PhD at a bar I'd go for one beer, leave and pay for their tab up to then on my way out.
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u/Rich_Cap_6127 2d ago
I’m not personally that friendly with my students. I’ve taken students out to dinner once when I was leaving for a new job. I’ve also hired a student to house/pet sit for me who had lots of experience with dogs. I’ve been out with students for lunch/dinner at conferences, but not something that happens regularly.
I have a tenured colleague who is older, more like my students’ parents’ ages, and she has them over and cooks for them (byob if they’re over 21), but doesn’t go out to bars with them though I think she did when she was younger. We’re in the arts, so things are less formal usually.
I think the normalcy of this depends on what area of study your husband is in.
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u/VerbalThermodynamics Comms[USA] 2d ago
I would never get into a Snapchat group. I have gone out for beers with seniors at the end of a term or tournament
Is he doing with groups and leaving early or solo and one on one until the bars close?
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u/TraditionalToe4663 Professor/Sci Ed/USA 2d ago
If you are questioning the behavior it’s because the behavior is questionable.
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u/RexScientiarum 1d ago
Some degree of socialization is normal and usually encouraged. Going to a bar/brewpub can be normal. Usually it is a small group of faculty and their combined staff and students that work regularly in the lab. We do this roughly 1 time a month, about the same frequency I experienced during my graduate education. Mature, of age, undergraduates that regularly work in the lab are also invited if they behave. We always go to brewpubs with food and appropriate vibes. 1-3 drinks is the unspoken norm that I don't think has ever been broken. Everybody is gone by 9:30 (usually much earlier).
The snapchat thing seems kind of icky to me. Not really my thing. I haven't used it in so long that it might have a different vibe now, so I could be wrong. I feel that the social media stuff is way more of a risk/slippery slope than the occasional in-person socializing.
Trust your gut if you feel the vibes are off or heading in an unhealthy direction. Otherwise, it is probably fine. Usually spouses are welcome, so you can ask to join. There's a lot of shop talk in my group, which can be boring for spouses not in the same field. My wife only comes if there is trivia; otherwise, she gets bored.
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u/anonybss 1d ago
I mean there was a prof at our school that used to do coke with the students... there are all kinds.
I do think people are more careful now about prof-student relations, but actually as long as he's in a group situation (rather than one-on-one with any of them) it seems pretty safe. Lucky students! Is your husband generally mature, like, does he have friends his age, or does he seem stuck?
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u/Helpful_Dragonfruit8 1d ago
I would never go to a bar with a student. I may sit down with them for lunch if they need the extra help, but if you come up to me I’m a bar it better be where everybody goes to the bar as end of term party
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u/PersonalLoquat769 1d ago
I find the Snapchat element most concerning… the other aspects I wouldn’t personally partake in, but there is no clearly defined line of what is “allowed”
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u/ansheh1 1d ago
(From a student perspective)
I’ve had drinks with a few professors and known other grad students that did too but it was usually still in a professional setting like an awards banquet or a prof buying dinner and drinks to celebrate a thesis defense or graduation. All graduate students tho. Going to bars with students is weird. And having Snapchat at 37 is weird anyways lol
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u/Prudent_Editor7904 1d ago
As a professor, I would never do this with my students. However, I do try to keep work at work when I leave for the day.
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u/centralgyri 1d ago
Graduate students with a shared interest or have shared a conversation more than about the class, sure
Anyone else, see you in office hours
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u/IAmVeryStupid 1d ago edited 1d ago
Are they undergrads in his classes or grad students he's supervising?
If it's grad students, the lunch thing isn't weird. For upper level undergrads, lunch is not that weird if it's a group of them, like if he's the sponsor of a club or something.
Former students, I would say it's unusual, but not really anything inherently wrong with it. It's a little weird you're not invited on the Saturday outings.
Current students who are lower level undergrads? Absolutely not.
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u/thelegalkoala246 17h ago
I can understand the lunch and pub nights if it's in a group setting but the Snapchat part is weird, unnecessary and kind of cringe to be honest.
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u/turingincarnate 9h ago
Uhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh, I wouldn't say it's normal, at least. I'm 29. When I first taught around 27/28 years old, my then undergrads were mostly 19/20, and I looked at the lot of them like a bunch of kids. I definitely wouldn't drink with them or kick it with them like we're homies😂
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u/chemical_sunset Associate Professor/Science/Community College/[USA] 2d ago edited 2d ago
This is tricky but I’ll share my opinion (as one person who is around your husband’s age).
Taking a student to lunch is normal. I don’t personally do it, but this wouldn’t raise red flags for me.
When I was in college, one professor took us out for beers at the end of the semester because we were a smaller and close knit group, and I (the youngest) had turned 21. In grad school, my department would always go out for beers after Friday colloquium, and professors would buy the first pitcher.
I find going to a bar on a Saturday night to be too far. I’ll occasionally have a group dinner with some of our majors where we might have one or two drinks, but that’s as rowdy as it gets. Those have always been on weekdays, typically after a meeting or speaker. When they’ve invited me to social outings on weekends (as a group), I’ve declined because I view it as their time to be social with their peers.
I find the Snapchat thing super weird. It’s completely possible that it’s innocent, but there’s too much room for things to get weird. I’d be surprised and concerned if I learned a colleague was doing this.
Basically my rule of thumb is whether I would be embarrassed if my boss confronted me about something. It would be easy to explain a group dinner, but I’d be very embarrassed having to explain something like Snapchat even if I hadn’t done anything wrong.
And to add a little extra context here, my program (at a community college) definitely fraternizes far more than average. We travel with our students, stay at hotels, drive together, etc. Like, many of my students have seen me in pajamas (athletic shorts and a T-shirt) or a (one piece) swim suit. So if I think something is weird, it feels likely that a lot of people would (since many would already find my level of closeness to be weird).
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u/robbie_the_cat 2d ago
Nothing here necessarily means that anything untoward is afoot.
Also, I've had three close colleagues in my career whose interactions with students looked like this. All three lost their jobs due to a student making a formal complaint about an inappropriate action or relationship.
One was almost definitely doing pretty much what the student complained about.
One, I really have no idea.
The third? I'd known him for decades and I'm pretty goddamn confident that he didn't do anything with any sort of inappropriate intention. He was just buying drinks for his undergrad lab students as he very frequently did, and one day a student complained that there was an inappropriate dynamic there. Maybe she misinterpreted something? Maybe something else? Regardless, the school didn't give a fuck. Six weeks later, tenure meant nothing; he was locked out of his lab and served notice from the legal team that his presence on campus anywhere but the parking lot, his office, his classroom, and direct pathways between those spots would be considered trespassing. Once the term was up, his employment was terminated.
You might want to think long and hard about the last instance as you discuss this with your husband.
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u/Interesting-Delay200 2d ago
I've been a university teacher for many years, including academic management. I then went into other lines of work. You describe behaviour I'd think unwise for a professor. I'd be concerned if this were my spouse.
I'd lie down some pretty clear ground rules which involve this grown man grasping that he is not a 20 something, he's not a student but someone who has power over student grades. He should never put himself in a situation in which some students think he many have favourites, which acting like a "friend' is bound to give rise to, and get into relaxed evening situations in which flirtation and sexual feelings are bound to arise. And they will, won't they? And some young people, maybe not in this cohort, will 'try it on' with the all too casual professor, for a laugh, for an adventure, for leverage?
How emotionally mature is this man? 15?
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u/Dazzling-Astronaut88 2d ago
When I was in college in the 90s, I routinely went to lunch with professors and had drinks at the bar with some of them, though not on a weekly basis. In my 20s as a professor, I did this practice a little bit, but less common than what I experienced. I would not do it at all these days, but there’s nothing inherently wrong with it when managed properly.
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u/hungerforlove 2d ago
These things are a matter of judgment, but going out to bars with students is definitely stretching it in the USA ins 2026. It might be much more usual in other places.
You don't really say what you are worried apart from whether it is "normal" or not. What does he say about it? You can possibly find out what the university policy is about professor/student interactions from their website, especially if alcohol is involved, though it is also likely that there's no real policy about it unless the relationship turns sexual.
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u/dragonfeet1 2d ago
I had a male professor in grad school who held his office hours in the rathskeller. It was fine. It was a public place with plenty of campus witnesses.
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u/Full_Occasion_1379 2d ago
I’m way more careful than that. It also seems that I am way less sociable. And I wouldn’t drink with students ever, too much can go wrong.