r/AskReddit • u/DrCompenomics • 13h ago

Who’s the best real-life example of “you either die a hero, or live long enough to see yourself become the villain,” and what happened?

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u/Krakshotz 12h ago

If he had died at Saratoga, he probably would’ve gone down in history as an American hero

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u/will0593 12h ago edited 8h ago

He was treated poorly by American leadership overall. I ain't surprised what he did

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u/Gdigger13 9h ago

Yeah, he was basically overshadowed by others who claimed the credit. Still, kinda shitty to let that cloud your judgement.

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u/LeeHarveyOswald 8h ago

There is a lot to delve into as far as to whether Arnold was being treated poorly.

He was a valiant field commander who time and time again didn’t shy away from the battlefield. His willingness to put himself in harms way is part of why Washington trusted him so much and why his betrayal struck such a cord.

He was also a proud man who did not suffer well the criticism of his contemporaries. And he had many accusations leveled against him by different people with claims of mismanagement of resources and using his position to enrich himself.

He’d counter that the privileges he carried were well deserved and that he risked his personal fortunes financing supplies for the war effort.

Ultimately his decision to betray the cause for financial security as a British subject serves as vindication on part of his detractors within the continental army as to why he was not granted greater position and authority. Had he simply resigned his command (as he had before) and left to seek fortune back in England or elsewhere, he’d still have been remembered a hero.

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u/adamgerd 6h ago

Ironically him first betraying the Brits for the revolutionaries only to change sides and come back made him disliked by both Americans of course and the Brits too because after all he had betrayed them once before at the start of the American revolution even if he came back so he was seen as a liability

“In the House of Commons, Edmund
Burke expressed the hope that the government would not put Arnold "at the head of a part of a British army" lest "the sentiments of true honour, which every British officer [holds] dearer than life, should be afflicted.”

His reputation also came under criticism in the British press, especially when compared to André, who was celebrated for his patriotism. One critic said that he was a "mean mercenary, who, having adopted a cause for the sake of plunder, quits it when convicted of that charge."

George Johnstone turned Arnold down for a position in the East India Company and explained: “Although I am satisfied with the purity of your conduct, the generality do not think so. While this is the case, no power in this country could uddenly place you in the situation you aim at under the East India Company."”

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u/tibbles1 7h ago

He would probably be considered the best American general of all time.

He was a brilliant tactical commander.

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u/DangerousPuhson 7h ago

Eh, his treachery is what made him famous. If he died at Saratoga, 9 out of 10 people wouldn't even recognize his name.

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u/AcrolloPeed 7h ago

He’d still have his eggs as a legacy. And a delicacy.

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u/airfryerfuntime 5h ago edited 5h ago

No, he was already hated by that point.

The reason he did what is did was because the continental army treated him like shit and didn't give him credit for any of his accomplishments. He was also paying his troops out of his own pocket at Saratoga. The final straw was when he asked to be reimbursed, and military leadership not only told him to fuck off, but they actually gave him a bill for the weapons and uniforms his troops wore out.