r/AskReddit • u/DrCompenomics • 13h ago

Who’s the best real-life example of “you either die a hero, or live long enough to see yourself become the villain,” and what happened?

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u/Cent1234 9h ago edited 5h ago

"Progressive in terms of black civil rights" doesn't necessarily translate into "progressive in terms of gay rights." Or any other element of the broad umbrella of 'progressivism.' And vice versa, for that matter.

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u/Th3B4dSpoon 5h ago

Funnily enough, I remember learning he actually became gay friendly very late in his life when his memory was starting to fail him. Reportedly he was kind and cheerful to the gay rights protestors outside the Westboro compound at that point.

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u/Wilgrove 4h ago

Huh, that's kinda weird. It always seems like people tend to become more aggressive and hostile as dementia progresses. Yet with Fred Phelps, the opposite happened.

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u/Ibroketheinterweb 4h ago

When you spend your life being that hateful the only way you can go with dementia is up it seems.

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u/NonsensicalAesthetic 3h ago

Donald J. Trump has entered the chat

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u/No_Problem6432 47m ago edited 36m ago

I wish i was as simple minded as you to be able to just label him as 'hateful' and never think about it again. God, I would love to be so simple and naive. What you call 'hateful', he calls generations of practicing his religion. Do you not feel silly using such infant language to try and explain another human being? What the hell is wrong with you? Do you think a person can ultimately be defined with one simple word? This is the problem with you people who claim to preach for accepting of all, but the moment you are put in his shoes and have your life experiences and the make up of what makes you, well, YOU, challenged, you are VERY quick to turn around a dehumanize another living creature who is just the make up of his COMPLEX upbringing just like yourself.

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u/Yuskia 40m ago

4 numbers after name, look inside, hidden comment history. Spouting inflammatory bullshit.

Yup, its a bot/agitator.

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u/No_Problem6432 38m ago

Right above your post:

"YOU, you are VERY quick to turn around a dehumanize another living creature who is just the make up of his COMPLEX upbringing just like yourself." Way to prove my point.

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u/Yuskia 35m ago

You put all those words up, but i ain't reading all that :)

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u/No_Problem6432 33m ago

You go around accusing ACTUAL compassionate people of being bots, but you were just projecting yourself on to me the whole time. That's fine. Good luck.

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u/Not_Xiphroid 17m ago

Feel bad for all the lakes going to waste for such a poor mockery of humanity.

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u/Ibroketheinterweb 43m ago

Were you born yesterday? "Hate" is literally part of Westboro's main catchphrase.

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u/No_Problem6432 39m ago

No, I was not born yesterday. What you don't understand is what YOU call hate, they call love. Until you do realize thats how they justify their 'hate', by not wanting you to go to their hell or whatever, you will actually have finally learned how to think of people you disagree with: still human.

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u/GrimDallows 3h ago

Not necesarily. I am not a doctor, but the way I have seen cognitive decline is not exactly like that.

A family member used to work with old people, and she used to say people turn more selfish. Not -evil- kind of selfish; just more defensive of their things and fearful of matters of health.

It is something like, cognitive decline is more like a devolution, it makes you more like a kid. Some people who were very nasty in life become very tame because they can't recall most of their social grudges. Others turn into spoiled kids: they lack patience, have a shorter attention span, become more focused and prioritizing on stuff that keeps them entertained.

I have seen multiple different cases and each one is very complex. A case I remember, the person got nastier because he couldn't process most modern stuff/TV shows on TV other than some movies old he liked, but would become completely tame when listening to music; -any- form of music, as long as it was an instrument that he liked, because he did not care about not understanding the words the singing guy was saying.

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u/hamster-on-popsicle 2h ago

That's very interesting, I honestly understand the last guy, too much cut, they barely present the characters now and most movie are too damn dark.

Even with dementia my grandma stayed as nice as she always was, I don't know what it said about her life.

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u/BLT_Trade_r 3h ago

People can be complex like that. Another scenario is just that he was a lying, manipulative lawyer who chased whatever fame he could, and no one actually knows if he has any convictions. When the civil rights fame dried up, he flipped over to religion. Maybe he just always needed to be in the spotlight no matter what. Then, in old age, he just didn't care anymore.

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u/Cautious_Clothes_285 1h ago

Those are the stories that are more common, yeah.

We've got family going through it and the doctor explained it more that they self-censor less. This doesn't always mean bad things come out. Sometimes people don't express their true selves in negative ways, like a dad not telling his son "i love you" because he thinks that's gay shit or whatever. Some people put on a front to be macho, or seem strong or independent or whatever, and when that front starts to drop the unfiltered version shines through.

On the other hand, sometimes people are fucking dickheads and self-censor because they know their real thoughts, feelings, and opinions are not socially acceptable, and they're the ones who become real assholes as dementia worsens.

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u/No-Examination4896 1h ago

Depends a lot on the type of dementia. Im a med student and the way my neurology attending explained it was that in general youll have lots of cute old happy Alzheimers guys, but people with vascular dementia tend to be aggresive and violent

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u/084045056048048 4h ago

Yep, and I think he was exommunicated for it. Then his health worsened even more and died shortly after.

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u/SanctimoniousSally 3h ago

Yep. They talk a bit about it in the Louis Theroux doc he did a while back (part dos). No one from the church would talk about it because it's a bad look but they had family members who had left corroborate.

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u/Th3B4dSpoon 1h ago

Oh yeah! I forgot the excommunication until you mentioned it, but I had heard of it before. The whole story is wild.

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u/reality72 4h ago

Dementia is wild. It can turn the kindest people into the meanest, and sometimes it does the complete opposite and turns hateful assholes into kind friendly people.

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u/hamster-on-popsicle 2h ago

He must have forgotten his prejudices

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u/surveillance-hippo 3h ago

my grandmother forgot she didn't like spicy foods when the dementia hit, same thing I guess?

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u/Uppndwn 3h ago

Rarely even equates to progress.

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u/Zanos 4h ago

Kind of the opposite, actually. Minority communities in America trend towards homophobia in greater numbers, not fewer.

"Oppressed" is not a single interest group and never was.

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u/Adamas_Moustache86 2h ago

I've also heard the minority communities are generally more racist than non-minority communities. I have nothing to back that up, but I don't exactly doubt it.

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u/AgentCirceLuna 5h ago

Something the progressives really need to learn to get rid of its classism issue.

When you’re rooting for people who don’t have a voice but the main speakers for those groups are often middle-class journalists, lawyers, or politicians… you’re gonna get a class problem.

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u/alexjaness 3h ago

It's kind funny (in an awful kind of way) but the republican party would easily get black and Latino voters if they weren't so vehemently and visibly racist.

a very large number of black and Latinos are super keen on Jesus and very conservative, but the fact that the republican party openly hates them keeps them from voting for them.

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u/Lolaindisguise 5h ago

This is so sad. I was horrified as an adult to find black/latino people who are racist. Because it doesn’t make sense, if you don’t like being marginalized, why would you do it to someone else

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u/Cent1234 5h ago

Why would you be 'horrified' to find out that Black and Latino people are human beings, warts and all?

if you don’t like being marginalized, why would you do it to someone else

Nobody likes being marginalized, but people do things they don't like experiencing all the time.

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u/1ExiledCat1 4h ago

Yep. I always found that kind of view in western progressives very racist in an ironic way. These people infantilize minorities and the oppressed in a way that they forget they are actualy humans, with all kinds of shitty human traits existing within those groups as well.

It feels like they expect those oppresed groups to be ever grateful to their benevolent straight white saviours for giving them equal rights and be a good little boy by adopting all their morals. Like no my guy, they are as smart, able, good/evil and cunning as much as you are, don't expect them to embrace all your views, you are not their leaders, just equals.

This directly leads to two main problems. The first of those is that these people are only celebrated when their actions are completely in line with white western progressive middle class morals and the second problem is when these "progressives" are unable to objectively evaluate the problems stemming from the culture of these peoples.

Western progressives really need to critically look at how they view other cultures. While they may think they are above those pesky racists and conservatives, the orientalist still resides inside their subconscious, leading to them seeing the sauvage noble in every minority and oppressed.

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u/psychophant_ 4h ago

“Wait a minute. You’re telling me white people aren’t the only ones that are shitty!?”

— “non-racist” OP

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u/alanwakeisahack 4h ago

You just assumed only white people are racists? What makes white people extra bad that you’d think they’re the only racists?

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u/Seamore_J_Turtle 4h ago

People like to feel superior to others. A lot of folks have the "I may be marginalized but at least I'm not ____" attitude. It's why people of color can be prejudiced against other cultural groups, it's why some gay men are the most misogynistic men you'll encounter, and why basically every group hates on fat people, especially formerly fat people. Because as long as there's someone lower on the totem pole, at least you don't have it the worst.

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u/684beach 5h ago

Why wouldn’t they be racist lol? They aren’t marginalized in their own countries, and oppress others

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u/Old-Radio-7236 4h ago

Racism has nothing to do with being marginalized or whatever, it's a very common human trait.

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u/Bureaucratic_Dick 32m ago

Though funnily enough, one of Phelp’s biggest civil rights fights pertained to a local American Legion that was predominantly African-American, defending them against abuses committed by the police.

WBC would famously go on to picket funerals of service members, including the 2006 funeral of Marine LCpl. Matthew Snyder, and be involved in the Supreme Court case Snyder v Phelps, in which the American Legion supported the Snyder family financially through the fight against Phelps.

So Phelps had at one point supported the American Legion when it pertained to civil rights, and then fought against them at the highest court.

Personally, I think Phelps just liked being the guy who was being persecuted for his opinion (in his minds eye). A pre-internet professional troll, if you will.