r/AskReddit • u/DrCompenomics • 12h ago

Who’s the best real-life example of “you either die a hero, or live long enough to see yourself become the villain,” and what happened?

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u/FappatoriUniti 7h ago

This isn’t correct either. The most accurate title would be a mass casualty event or, more commonly, mass murder-suicide. There certainly were willing and eager participants, in as much as there were those who were forced and coerced. Due to the state of the bodies upon recovery, however, we have no way of ascertaining the numbers.

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u/hotpocketsinitiative 7h ago

It also is likely that most who drank willingly didn’t think it was real. Jim Jones was known for faking suicide attempts as a loyalty test. They didn’t have to start forcing people until they started seeing people actually die from drinking the flavoraid

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u/FappatoriUniti 7h ago edited 6h ago

Lots of people believed it was real, just as lots of people didn’t. You make a good point but the event isn’t as simple as one man hoodwinking a thousand.

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u/Practical-Big7550 2h ago

Don't forget that a number of people visiting the site were shot as they left which triggered the whole event.

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u/lblacklol 6h ago

I would respectfully disagree.

There were willing and eager participants because he manipulated those people. Maybe they drank it willingly in that moment, but it was only because he fostered that action over months and years with lies and deceit.

Mass casualty event makes it sound like he's being alleviated from blame. That's not fair to the victims. I could be convinced to think of it as a mass murder-suicide, but with an extremely heavy emphasis on the murder part.

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u/FappatoriUniti 6h ago

Where do you draw the line? Who else is called a murderer? The nurses and administrators? The parents who murdered their children? The problem is with trying to tightly define the event is, simply, that it’s impossible to do.

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u/VasyaFace 3h ago

Yes, the administrators and THE PARENTS WHO MURDERED THEIR CHILDREN are murderers.

How is this even a question?