Lets say his original self is still alive and he links to his avatar like Jake in first movie. Does he still make a deal with fire tribe? When general wants mangkwan out of the base, does he obey?

I love the Zeswa the most from the Frontiers of Pandora game. As a guy who loves traveling and cheese, they seem like my type of people. And they seem like such a proud people who always have a good time.

Is this spot on?
A crock of 💩?
A bit of both, and you have some notes / corrections to add?
Curious what others think!

What do You think will be the role od Pril, daughter of Ronal, on Avatar 4 and 5?

Now that we are waiting for A4 and 5 to get announced, I felt it was appropriate to post this. Be strong, guys!

I was 12 years old when I watched Avatar on the big screen in 2009.

The movie literally swallowed me whole. I became a super fan buying every book, toy and game there was (yes I played the PC, Wii and Nintendo DS version lmao). I wished so hard there would be more stuff. I had the bandai action figures as well.

I wrote fan fiction for 2 or 3 years, engaged in forums talking about movie details. I was obsessed with the RDA's machine and gun design from the first movie and I got way too far learning Navi.

I think I watched the making of on youtube like 10 times so I cant even count the number of times I watched the movie (original and extended version).

I was already married when A2 released and a father when A3 came out so I didn't follow anything around the change in the fandom and subculture but I saw much more toys and merchandise in the stores and I was super jealous because I feel too old to enjoy any of this now. When Frontiers of Pandora was announced I thought I might buy a PS5 only for that game but I just don't have the time to play so I never bought one. Although I bought the graphic novels shortly before A2 came out and I went to the premiere which was big for me.

Did anybody experience something similar? I wanted Avatar to be as big as LOTR or Star Wars but there wasnt enough material for it to be as big of a thing, even though it was the highest grossing movie ever

does anyone else feel like people in this fandom act like there was NO AGENCY whatsoever in the kids’ decision to follow lo’ak?

like yes, lo’ak is impulsive and reckless but he will be waist deep in a stupid idea and his siblings will spawn behind him in a congo line, uninvited and unannounced. i don’t understand this constant expectation from fans that he not exercise his free will because his siblings will also exercise THEIR free will and follow him.

yes lo’ak has made mistakes, but i honestly don’t believe going after payakan and spider was one of them. everyone made their decision that day. neteyam following lo’ak ultimately ended catastrophically, but it was predictable. but lo’ak did NOT recruit neteyam, ao’nung, tsireya, rotxo, kiri—and ESPECIALLY NOT TUK—for Operation: Warn Payakan. i was genuinely getting pissed off when everyone started saying that lo’ak put his sisters in danger. lo’ak didn’t “PUT” his sisters ANYWHERE actually.

like what was the long term plan there? don’t fuck off anywhere because your siblings will follow you because you did it first?

lo’ak being my favourite character does not blind me to the fact that, yes, sometimes he makes materially bad decisions. but you can’t draw a straight line from lo’ak to neteyam’s death.

i suppose that’s the point though. lo’ak in fire and ash doesn’t even really fully realize that people tend to gravitate towards him. doesn’t fully realize that he’s radicalizing the reef kids. that’s very funny of him actually.

anyways. at the end of the day, lo’ak’s stubbornness, when pointed in the right direction, is one of his greatest strengths. being stubborn and hardheaded got the tulkun to abrogate a millennia-or-however-old law of absolute pacifism.

Hi everyone, I don't remember where or when (I guess on TikTok of YouTube shorts?), but I heard that in Avatar 4 they're thinking about putting the Sarentu clan (or clans from Frontiers of Pandora).

It's unlikely to happen, I know... But as somebody who played the game, jeez if I'd love that!! Only the thought excites me!!

Anyone who feels the same? Anybody disagrees? Anybody knows if it's officially true or fake news? I would love to talk about that even if it's completely made up.

I constantly see people saying “avatar 4 is canceled" yet nothing has been said. On the other hand, there is now news, so what is going on?

So I'm currently watching the Avatar trilogy for the first time on Disney+. I finished the first movie yesterday and am currently watching Way of Water. The part where a certain character (being kinda vague to somewhat avoid major spoilers in case anyone new happens to see this post and hasn't seen the movie yet) died just happened a few minutes ago and I damn near BAWLED like a newborn baby😅😭. The raw emotion Zoe put into her performance was just, 💋🤌🏽!!!

If I had an Oscar, I'd give it to her, because got DAMN she had me in my feels!

I've been working on a character analysis about Alma, redemption, culpability, and the way Frontiers of Pandora asks us to view her, and before I finish it I really want to hear what the wider community thinks.

So, putting my own opinion aside for the moment:

What do you think of Alma Cortez?

Do you like her? Hate her? Sympathise with her? Think she's irredeemable? Somewhere in between?

I'm especially curious about a few things:

• How responsible do you personally hold Alma for TAP and what happened to the Sarentu?
• Do you think her later actions against the RDA matter when judging her past?
• Do you think Alma genuinely changed, or do you think she primarily acted out of guilt?
• Do you believe she could ever have earned redemption? If so, what would that actually require?
• Do you distinguish between redemption and forgiveness in her case?
• How did you feel about what happened to her in From the Ashes?
• Did Nor's actions toward Alma feel justified to you?
• And perhaps most importantly: what is it about Alma specifically that shapes your opinion of her?

There aren't any answers I'm looking for here. I'm genuinely interested in hearing different interpretations, including ones that completely disagree with my own.

I'd particularly love detailed answers explaining why you feel the way you do, because I'm interested in how different players experienced her character rather than just getting a yes/no verdict.

So: Alma Cortez. What is your judgment?

EDIT / UPDATE: Thank you, everyone 💙

I just wanted to add a huge thank you to everyone who took the time to respond to this post, whether you wrote a few sentences or several paragraphs. I’ve read every response, including the follow-up conversations, and I genuinely appreciate how thoughtful people have been.

When I originally made this post, I was gathering perspectives for an essay I’m working on about Alma, culpability, redemption, forgiveness, and the way we judge characters who have participated in colonial systems. I went into the project with my own opinions, particularly because I’ve often felt that Alma is read much more harshly than characters like Jake or Grace, but I specifically wanted to hear from people who disagreed with me as well as people who were sympathetic to her.

And you absolutely delivered.

What has been most useful is that the responses haven’t fallen neatly into “Alma good” versus “Alma bad.” People who dislike her have still argued that redemption was possible. People sympathetic to her have still held her responsible for TAP. Some of you focused on remorse, others on confession, restitution, authority, forgiveness, institutional complicity, her relationship with her avatar, her treatment of the Sarentu, Nor, or whether the game itself actually did enough to show her changing.

A lot of you also made me reconsider or complicate parts of my own argument, which is exactly what I was hoping for.

I’m not going to spoil where the essay ultimately lands.

But I will say that your responses have given me a lot to work with.

Thank you especially to everyone who disagreed with my own reading but still took the time to explain why. Those responses have been every bit as useful as the ones closer to my position, and in several cases they gave me some of the strongest questions I now want the essay to grapple with.

I really appreciate everyone trusting me with their perspective. 💙

The response-gathering part of this project is now finished, and I’m moving on to properly mapping out the argument and writing the essay.

I love the fact that even after everything, even with all the pain, and grief and disagreements, they're both just so happy to see each other.

Pattern by EmmysCrochetPlushies on Etsy

I shared the bigger one here a few weeks ago, so I thought I'd share the baby!

dude the recom navi are the coolest part of the franchise to me. seeing these 9 feet tall aliens wearing micro rigs and moving like an effective fighting force with modern human weaponry. i mean hell, even the Recom Unit patch goes unreasonably hard if you've never seen it. honorable mention to quaritch’s boy in the ghillie suit, that was unfathomable swag. honestly the entire “drop him” sequence with Quaritch might be the best/coolest part of the movie.

But i’m a military dork so who knows 🤷🏻‍♂️

I kinda want to show Tsa’la outfits. Similar when they show the characters outfit concept. In my Lore Tsa’lavantula she would have to either travel with Neteyam to collect silk. But that’s all she wears is lace like with beads or pearls from the Metkayina.

watched all 3. Can’t believe I had gone this long in my life saying “eh I never got into avatar” anyways I want 100 more. Also. I’m so happy for my good friend Jake

I know there’s a cook book but it sounds like it kinda sucks, I guess I kinda just wanna make real life counter parts to the food so I can have a very immersive gaming night.

I don't Neytiri is truly ashamed of her kids being mixed. I think she's more worried about how other navi will see them, and moving to the sea basically confirmed her fears when Lo'ak and Kiri were bullied.

I will agree that parents sometimes have a child that they "like" more than the other but they love them all equally.

Spiderman Brand New Day has surpassed Avatar the way of water into becoming the 3rd Highest grossing movie ever. Loved both movies. They both have their unique charm. Waiting to see the 4th Avatar movie with pretty visuals and amazing story, so we can see it up there in the box office rankings ❤️.

☾─────•──•°•𖥸•°•──•─────☽

I know I wasn’t the only one upset with Jake during the fight he had with Lo’ak, and then the fight he had with Neytiri in the very next scene. When I first watched Fire & Ash, I was outraged at Jake for blaming Lo’ak for Neteyam’s death, and then horrified at Neytiri for admitting her hatred for the humanity in her children. But, there’s one thing I keep coming back to in Fire & Ash, and it’s how deliberately the film places Neytiri's hatred of humanity at the centre of her conflict with Jake.

She says it plainly in the scene:

"I hate them, Jake. I hate them. I hate them. I hate their pink little hands. I hate the insanity in their minds."

On the surface, the scene is about Neytiri reaching her breaking point.

It's about everything humanity has taken from her: grief, fear and trauma have hardened into prejudice, to the point where she’s willing to hurt a child. Jake is the one standing opposite her, trying to pull her back from something that's become dangerous.

But underneath that conversation, the film is doing something quieter, and far more tragic, with Jake.

Because Neytiri may be the one who finally says she hates humanity.

Jake has been hating the human inside himself for years.

That hatred has been haunting their family long before Neytiri ever gives it a voice.

1. Jake keeps finishing Neytiri's sentences with his own worst fears

There's a pattern in the way Jake responds to Neytiri that's hard to ignore.

She says something — Jake hears something much harsher.

And the harsher version almost always concerns him — his humanity, or what their children inherited from him.

We see it years earlier in the comics — specifically Avatar: The High Ground — after Lo'ak nearly dies during his first Iknimaya.

Neytiri tells Jake that Lo'ak simply wasn't ready.

Jake answers that he thought he was. It reads, at first, as an ordinary disagreement between two parents about whether their child was prepared for something dangerous. Neytiri says that someday their sons will have to fight the Sky People, and Jake argues that they have to be ready. Neytiri replies:

"Someday is not today, Jake. Let them be boys a bit longer."

Then Jake explains that Lo'ak had been begging him to do it, that he'd been pushing himself. Neytiri tells him:

"Yes. He is like you."

And Jake immediately responds:

"…you mean like me, too human."

But that isn't what Neytiri said. She corrects him. Her point is that Lo'ak is fearless, reckless and impatient in a way that resembles Jake. Na'vi children can die during these rites too. His failure isn't proof that the human inside him made him defective.

Yet Jake hears the accusation anyway.

Neytiri says:

He is like you.

Jake hears:

He is too human.

That thought already exists inside him.

Fire and Ash shows us it never really went away.

2. "Our son is dead, Jake."

Now let’s go back to the fight in the marui. Neytiri urges Jake to go after Lo’ak, Jake refuses and Neytiri says:

"Do not blame Lo'ak. You said you could protect this family. That you could do."
Jake answers:
"Yeah. I thought we would be safe here."
Then Neytiri says:
"Our son is dead, Jake."
Jake responds:
"I was wrong! What do you want me to say? That every decision that I made for this family is wrong? I killed our son?"

But Neytiri didn't say that. She never says Jake killed Neteyam. She never tells him every decision he made was wrong.

Jake supplies those accusations himself.

That distinction matters because it tells us where his mind already is. Neytiri barely touches the wound before Jake starts saying aloud what he's apparently been telling himself:

I was wrong.

Every decision I made was wrong.

I killed our son.

This is not Neytiri assigning guilt to Jake.

It is Jake handing Neytiri the anvil to the verdict he’s already given himself. This whole scene is Jake slowly leading Neytiri to a conclusion he made a long time ago.

That guilt doesn't begin with Neteyam. Jake has an enormous graveyard behind him. He arrived on Pandora working for the RDA. He gathered intelligence on the Omatikaya. Hometree fell after he'd helped the humans understand the people living there. Eytukan died. Tsu'tey died. Over 2,000 warriors followed Toruk Makto into battle and never returned.

None of that means Jake is personally responsible for every Na'vi killed by the RDA. But Jake doesn't seem particularly good at making that distinction inside himself, as far as he’s concerned, he carries those deaths.

Then humanity returns.

Jake leads the resistance.

His family becomes a target.

He decides the only way to protect them is to leave the Omatikaya.

We could go into depth on whether that was a viable plan, but that's a topic for another time. The point is that leaving didn’t achieve what Jake was hoping it would, the war follows them to the reef anyway.

And Neteyam dies.

So when Jake says "I killed our son?" — Neytiri hasn't planted that thought in his head. That sentence has been waiting inside him for months since Neteyam died in front of him.

3. Then Jake does the same thing to Lo'ak

The scene immediately before Jake and Neytiri's argument makes this even more painful.

Payakan has just been banished, and Lo'ak is furious that Jake did nothing to defend him. Lo'ak tells him:

"You never stand up for me."
Jake retreats into military language:
"We're at war. You understand that? If you disobey orders, people get killed. With Spider here, we're trying to keep a low profile. But that rogue is out there. He's stirring up the young bulls. He’s gonna bring the whole RDA down on us."

Is Jake wrong or right? That's not the point, the point is what comes next.

Lo'ak accuses him of wanting Payakan gone. Jake responds:

"He's a loose cannon. He's just like you."

Then he goes somewhere much uglier:

"In fact, if you hadn't gone to him in the first place, if you hadn't disobeyed orders and your brother would still be…"

Now before I continue, I’ll be the first one to say I had to put down the remote and walk away from the movie when Jake said this. It was ugly, it was wrong, and I'm not condoning it. Jake is speaking from a place of fear and grief, but Lo'ak is still just a child and the results of this sentence lead him down a very dark path. I want to be clear about my lack of support for this moment before I go any further.

At first glance, this moment looks like Jake finally admitting that some part of him blames Lo'ak for Neteyam's death — and I won’t pretend that part isn’t real. Some of it is aimed squarely at his son, and it lands on a child who did nothing to deserve it. But I want to dig a bit deeper, because I think something else is leaking out in the very same breath. When Jake says this, he isn’t only speaking to Lo’ak. He’s also speaking to himself, to the aspects of himself that he sees within Lo’ak.

Look at the language.

Loose cannon.

Disobeys orders.

Acts before permission arrives.

Throws himself into danger because he thinks he can fix the problem once he is inside it.

Makes one decision, and somebody else may pay for it.

Jake is describing himself.

Jake Sully has spent most of his life being exactly the kind of person he's terrified Lo'ak will become. He disobeys constantly. His entire life on Pandora exists because he eventually refused the orders he'd been given. He takes enormous risks. He acts on instinct. He decides he knows what has to be done and moves before anyone can stop him.

Sometimes those qualities save everyone.

Sometimes they don't.

So when Jake looks at Lo'ak, he doesn't simply see his youngest son.

He sees himself.

And most importantly, he sees the self that failed to save Neteyam in time.

4. Jake is hardest on the child who is most like him

This is where Jake's later accusation toward Neytiri gets genuinely tangled.

Because if we ask which parent most consistently treats the parts of their children inherited from Jake as something dangerous that needs controlling, it isn't Neytiri.

It's Jake.

Lo'ak is the obvious example. He's impulsive, stubborn, emotional, willing to break rules when he believes the situation demands it, incredibly loyal and almost magnetically attracted to impossible situations.

He is painfully Jake.

And instead of that resemblance making Jake more patient with him, it seems to make him harder.

Jake doesn't consciously look at Lo'ak and think: You are lesser because you are part human. The thought is sadder than that. Jake knows what being Jake Sully has cost people. So when he recognises those same qualities in his son, he tries to hammer them into something safer.

He doesn't see a younger version of himself who needs understanding.

He sees a younger version of himself who needs to be stopped before he makes Jake's mistakes.

Jake may be trying to discipline parts of himself out of Lo'ak.

And that makes his accusation toward Neytiri almost painfully ironic. Because Jake later asks her whether every time their children make a mistake, every time they're different, she sees the human inside them and feels ashamed.

But Jake has spent years looking at Lo'ak's mistakes and seeing Jake, and then as a consequence, seeing the human in Jake.

He's afraid Neytiri thinks:

That difference came from you.

Meanwhile Jake has been looking at Lo'ak and thinking exactly that himself.

The recklessness came from me.

The danger came from me.

The mistakes came from me.

And eventually:

Your brother died because you are too much like me.

Even Payakan becomes part of this. Jake calls him a "loose cannon" — a dangerous outsider whose choices could bring the RDA down on everyone around him. It's a description that could be printed on Jake Sully's own character sheet.

So by the time Jake turns to face Neytiri, every mirror in the room has shown him the same thing — and he hates what he sees in all of them. He walks into that argument already bleeding from the wound, already holding the conclusion, waiting for her to confirm it.

5. "I hate them, Jake."

Considering everything Neytiri has lost at the hands of the RDA, it’s a wonder that it took so long for her to finally break:

"I hate them, Jake. I hate them. I hate them. I hate their pink little hands. I hate the insanity in their minds."

In this moment, just like Jake with Lo’ak, Neytiri is speaking from a place of pain.

And Jake's response is immediate:

"I'm a human, inside. You hate me? I'll always be an alien to you, won't I? Doesn't matter how long I live in this skin."

Again, look at the leap Jake makes.

Neytiri says:

I hate humans.

Jake hears:

You hate the human in me, you hate me

On its own, that first leap is forgivable — reasonable, even. If someone you love says they hate what you are, flinching and hearing yourself in it is a very human reflex. If Jake had stopped there, it would be a hurt husband’s misstep, not a pattern.

Then he goes further:

"Do you hate your children with their alien hands?"
Neytiri says:
"No."

So Jake changes the question.

"Are you ashamed every time they make a mistake, every time they're different, that's because of the human inside them, right?"
And Neytiri says:
"Yes."

This moment broke me, I can’t deny that when we reached this point in the film, I was upset with both of them, but looking at the way the fight is structured, something important occurred to me.

Neytiri never mentions the children. She never says the word ashamed. Jake supplies both. That is the tell — the point where his fear stops answering what she actually said and starts writing her lines for her. I hate humans to you hate me is a flinch. You’re ashamed of our children is invention.

Before I proceed, that answer shouldn't be erased or explained away. Neytiri does say it. The scene wants us to confront how far her hatred has progressed: by this point she's genuinely let the category of "human" become poisoned enough to reach people who aren't responsible for what humanity has done to her, enough to even paint her own children with the same brush.

But that "yes" doesn't necessarily prove Neytiri has secretly spent fifteen years looking at her children and feeling ashamed of their humanity. Her behaviour doesn't support that as some longstanding hidden truth. She loves her children ferociously. Their heritage has never prevented her from claiming them as hers, teaching them, protecting them, grieving them or understanding them as Na'vi.

Jake's fear, however, does have history.

Years earlier, Neytiri says:

Lo'ak is like you.

Jake hears:

Too human.

After Neteyam dies, Neytiri says:

Our son is dead.

Jake hears:

You killed him.

Now Neytiri says:

I hate humans.

Jake hears:

You hate me. You're ashamed of our children.

Jake keeps finishing Neytiri's sentences with his own worst fears.

By the time she finally says yes to one of them, we're not witnessing Neytiri unveil some secret truth Jake has somehow always known. Instead, Jake in his own guilt has built the staircase and helped her climb it to this final conclusion, this whole scene has been a long view of Jake holding out his guilt and demanding that Neytiri confirm it.

And in the ugliest moment of Neytiri's grief, she gives him the answer he's been terrified of hearing.

6. The human Jake has never forgiven

That's why the scene is doing something more complicated than:

Neytiri hates humans, Jake doesn't.

Jake has plenty of hatred for humanity. He simply turns an enormous amount of it inward.

Neytiri looks at humanity and sees:

Sylwanin.

Hometree.

Her father.

The RDA.

The war that came back after fourteen years.

The death of her son.

Jake looks at those same things and also sees himself**.**

So when Neytiri talks about humanity like it's poison, Jake can't hear that as an abstract judgement about some distant group, all he can hear is how he’s brought that poison into their home, and now he’s watching it slowly kill the people he loves.

Jake isn't defending humanity.

He's asking whether he himself can ever be absolved of having been human. He’s wondering if her love has simply suffered that part of him and can now go no further.

That's why:

"I'm a human, inside."

matters so much.

Not I was human.

Not I came from humans.

I am human.

Jake has lived in this body for more than a decade. He is Omatikaya. He has been olo'eyktan. He is Toruk Makto. He speaks the language, follows the customs, has a Na'vi mate and Na'vi children, and has spent almost his entire adult life fighting for Pandora.

And still, when Neytiri says she hates humans, Jake's first instinct is:

Then you must hate me too.

He has never fully stopped seeing humanity as something inside himself that might eventually disqualify him.

So when he asks whether Neytiri is ashamed of their children, he may not be describing her belief system at all. He may be describing his own.

Lo'ak makes a mistake.

Jake sees Jake.

Lo'ak is reckless.

Jake sees Jake.

Lo'ak disobeys.

Jake sees Jake.

And then Neteyam dies.

Jake sees Jake.

So perhaps when Jake tells Lo'ak:

"If you hadn't disobeyed, your brother would still be (alive)"

In that moment, I don’t think Jake is saying that to Lo’ak, I think he’s saying it to himself:

"If I had made different decisions, all of them might still be alive."

7. "Me too, baby."

That's what makes Neytiri's line so devastating.

"I hate them, Jake."

Because beneath everything Jake says afterward is an answer he never quite voices:

“Me too.”

Not Spider.

Not Norm.

Not Grace.

Not every human being alive.

Jake knows perfectly well that humanity isn't morally uniform. The human he hates is far closer, and it’s a human he can’t seem to kill.

It's the Marine who arrived on Pandora.

It’s the man who worked for Quaritch.

It’s the man whose information helped expose the Omatikaya.

It’s the man who led thousands of Na’vi warriors to their deaths.

It’s the man whose instincts still turn fear into orders and family into a unit when war comes.

It’s the man Jake sees reflected in Lo'ak every time his son runs headfirst into danger.

It’s himself.