r/Buttcoin • u/AmericanScream • 11d ago
"This time it's different...."
Stupid Crypto Talking Point #2 (Number go up)
"NuMb3r g0 Up!!!" / "Best performing asset of the decade!" / "Everyone who bought is "up" right now"
Whether the "price of crypto" goes up, has absolutely no bearing on whether it's..
a) A long term store of value
b) Holds any intrinsic value or utility
c) Or will return any value in the future
One of the most important tenets of investing is the simple principal: Past performance is not a guarantee of future returns. People in crypto seem willfully ignorant of this basic concept.
At best, the price of crypto is a function of popularity, not actual value or material utility. And this "popularity" has been waning for years. Also transactions per block for bitcoin have stalled since 2023. For more on how and why crypto makes a much worse investment than almost anything else, see this article.
The "price of crypto" is a heavily manipulated figure published by shady, unregulated crypto exchanges that have systematically been caught manipulating the market from then to now. A new 2025 Cornell study shows fewer than 500 people control $3.2T of artificial crypto trading!
Crypto bros love to harp about "inflation" in the fiat system, yet ironically they measure the "value" of their "fiat alternative" in fiat? It makes absolutely no sense, unless you assume they haven't thought 2 seconds ahead from what comes out of their mouths.
It's the height of hypocrisy for crypto people to champion token deflation (and increased prices) while ignoring that there's over $160+ Billion in unsecured stablecoins being used to inflate the value of their tokens in the crypto marketplace. The "code is law" and "don't trust - verify" people seem perfectly willing to take companies like Tether and Circle, at face value, that they're telling the truth about asset reserves when there's very little actual evidence, but there is lots of evidence of market manipulation.
Not Your Fiat, Not Your Value - Just because you think the "value of your crypto portfolio" is worth $$$ does not make that true. It's well known there's inadequate liquidity in this market, and most people will never be able to get their money out. So UNLESS/UNTIL you can actually liquidate your crypto for actual real money, you have no idea what you have. You're "down" until you cash out. Bernie Madoff's clients got monthly statements saying they were "making money" too.
Just because it's possible (though highly improbable) to make money speculating on crypto, this doesn't mean it's an ethical or reliable technique to amass wealth. At its core, the notion that buying and holding crypto will generate reliable returns is a de-facto ponzi scheme. It's mathematically impossible for even a stastically-significant percentage of crypto holders to have any notable ROI. The rare exception of those who might profit in this market, do so while providing cover for everything from cyber terrorism to human trafficking.
It's also not true that anybody who bought crypto when it was low is guaranteed to make a lot of money. There are thousands of ways people can lose their crypto or be defrauded along the way. And there's no guarantee just because your portfolio is "up", that you could easily cash out.
While crypto suggests itself as an alternative to "TradFi", the most respected and successful people in traditional finance who have proven track records of good investing/returns do not think crypto is a reliable store of value.
Want to see a better asset (that actually has utility) that's consistently out-performed Bitcoin? Here you go. However, this may be another best performing asset.
When crypto-critics make reference to, or mock crypto price predictions, it's not because we think price is a meaningful metric. Instead, we are amused that to you, that's all that's important, and we can't help but note how often wrong you are in your predictions. The intrinsic value of crypto basically never changes, but it is interesting to see how hype and propaganda affects the extrinsic value. In a totally logical world, those would both be equalized to zero, but we're not there yet, and nobody knows when/if that will happen because it's an irrational market.
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u/ssorbom warning, i am a moron 9d ago
Point two can just as easily apply to a world of physical goods. AMC theaters has a bunch of brick and mortar places, but still subject to a rug pull. The tulip mania in the 1600s made absolutely no sense whatsoever.
Note that I am not saying this in defense of Bitcoin. I just think that if we are going to apply that argument to Bitcoin, it should apply equally to every single financial speculation ever made.
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u/AmericanScream 9d ago
Point two can just as easily apply to a world of physical goods. AMC theaters has a bunch of brick and mortar places, but still subject to a rug pull. The tulip mania in the 1600s made absolutely no sense whatsoever.
First off, you're engaging in a fallacious argument: Whataboutism, aka, "Tu Quoque Fallacy." Not a legit counter-argument.
Second, Movie theaters are real things. Tulips are real things. They can be over-valued, but they represent real-world products and services that have value and utility. Bitcoin is 100% abstraction.
Note that I am not saying this in defense of Bitcoin. I just think that if we are going to apply that argument to Bitcoin, it should apply equally to every single financial speculation ever made.
Nobody is saying bitcoin is the only thing whose value is primarily based on popularity, but it is one of the few things that has virtually no other value from other areas.
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u/Snapper716527 12h ago
bitcoin is the only thing whose value is primarily based on popularity
It is it the only circa trillion market-cap such animal though. So it is a more notable aberration than others.
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u/AmericanScream 12h ago
It is it the only circa trillion market-cap such animal though. So it is a more notable aberration than others.
That's an utterly meaningless metric when applied to crypto.
Stupid Crypto Talking Point #12 (market cap)
"$$$$ 'Market Cap!'" / "There's $x million in this project!"
The term "market cap" is one appropriated from the stock market and is misleading and erroneous to apply to crypto.
Traditional market capitalization translates to "the value of a company as a function of its share price."
This figure only has meaning if the share price is properly valued based on the actual value of the company. There are standard established formulas for determining what a company is worth by adding up its assets and income and subtracting its liabilities. Then to determine whether a share price is over or under-inflated, you divide that figure by the number of outstanding shares.
Market capitalization when shares are not manipulated, should settle at the true value of the company. In cases where shares are manipulated (TSLA is a good example), its "market cap" is unrealistic. In situations where insiders control a large portion of shares, they can easily manipulate the stock price, resulting in the appearance of a high net value that doesn't jive with reality.
Cryptocurrencies, by their nature, have no intrinsic value. Crypto doesn't create income; it doesn't represent real-world assets. So it has absolutely no base value in the first place by which to calculate valuation and market capitalization.
In reality, nobody has any idea how much actual "market capitalization" there is in the world of crypto, since actual liquidity is obscured by phony stablecoins and shady exchanges that are neither regulated, nor transparent.
In crypto, people simply multiply the coin price x the number of coins minted and declare that's the value of the crypto industry. It's completely misleading and deceptive and in no way indicates any realistic level of capital value.
For additional details see Why Market Cap is a Meaningless & Dangerous Valuation Metric in Crypto Markets
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u/Snapper716527 4h ago
It is meaningful in the sense of how big of a problem it is. Of course a Trillion can't be cashed out. It's all leveraged nonsense. But my point is when crypto goes down, most people killing themselves will do it because of bitcoin, because being the largest, means more and larger loses.
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u/Snapper716527 12h ago
AMC theaters Point 2 is about popularity being the only factor in BTC price. This cannot be said about AMC or any other company that has fundamentals.
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u/Coleyx123 Ponzi Schemer 9d ago
Is it really any different from stocks? They're manipulated by politicians, wall street, and greedy companies. I'm not defending the "crypto is the only future" crowd, as it all boils down to the ability to use it on the economy, which you can do with crypto, at least to a certain extent. I look at it as more diversification, and when I start seeing bro's saying we're back, I get ready to sell. Markets are all unpredictable, which is what makes it life-changing in one way or another, and for a lot of folks, they lose.
Research is key in every market, not just trusting a broker or, in the case of current crypto, AI to trade for you. If you don't know where your money is and can't verify what it's doing yourself, you're doing it wrong. It's like Ford, Chevy, and Dodge. People pick one for no real reason and is what they stick with. They make up excuses as to why they won't switch to something better because a lot of people have a hard time saying they're wrong. That's the best example of a BTC only boy. What, you'll likely have a chance to double your money, but you bought it because people my age bought when we first heard about it, and they made a fortune. Those gains will never possibly happen again. Don't get me wrong, I throw a few bucks (literally) into cheap ass memecoins to possibly get that 1000x+, but it's likely to shit the bed, but is covered and made up for with other coins, stocks, or vacuuming out my car.
No diversity = no brain.
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u/AmericanScream 8d ago
Is it really any different from stocks?
Stupid Crypto Talking Point #17 (stocks)
"Crypto is just like the stock market!" , "Comparing crypto to stocks", "Bitcoin has an impressive 'Sharpe Ratio'"
Crypto tokens are absolutely NOT like stocks. Unlike crypto, which is just a digital abstraction, stocks represent actual ownership in real-world entities, that own assets, provide useful products and services for mainstream society, generate revenue and can pay dividends to shareholders in real money.
You don't have to sell a stock to make money from it. Many companies pay dividends of their profits, which means you can truly INvest in the company as opposed to DIvesting when you want to see a return. This is an important and fundamentally different function that crypto does not have. Many stocks create value in actual money, providing income without speculating on share price.
The value of a stock, while it can be "speculative" based on popularity and hype, also is based on the intrinsic value of the company's assets and business performance. Therefore you can perform actual research and due-diligence and come up with a practical value for the shares and the assets they represent. And tell when they are overvalued due to hype. Crypto has no such feature.
Because companies are valued based on actual real-world assets and income, there's a limit to how low their share price could fall, at which point it would be economically viable to buy the whole company and liquidate it for a profit. Crypto has no such limitation. The inherent value of crypto tokens is based at zero because it neither creates, nor represents any minimum base, real-world value.
Unlike crypto, the stock market is heavily regulated and transparent. There are entire industries and agencies that are tasked with making sure public companies operate legitimately and legally. Crypto has no such oversight or regulations or transparency.
While there are some over-valued stocks that are hype driven, and some companies whose shares are extremely risky and speculative, and OTC and option markets that are more like gambling than investing, that's not the way the stock market system normally operates. Those highly-speculative markets and penny stocks are the exception; NOT the rule. In crypto, speculation is exclusively the rule.
Public companies are subject to great scrutiny, and must produce regular independent audits and quarterly reports on profit and loss. They can also be sued by their shareholders or even be held criminally liable if they lie about their business model, or even the risk factors their investors face. Again, there is no such function or protections in the world of crypto.
The Sharpe Ratio is another term borrowed from the stock market that does not apply to crypto for all the above reasons, as well as The Sharpe Ratio relies on the assumption that equity returns are evenly distributed - which in the stock market they are via things like dividends, but crypto has no such evenly distributed metrics by which to evaluate risk, as well as significantly more risk factors than stocks, and also that even the price of crypto is largely an unverifiable figure due to lack of transparency and regulatory oversight of most crypto exchanges and the existing evidence that the market is highly manipulated. Like most other TradFi market terms, their use doesn't properly apply to crypto "assets" and its application is misleading and deceptive.
I throw a few bucks (literally) into cheap ass memecoins to possibly get that 1000x+
Save your money and buy a lottery ticket instead. At least the lottery is properly regulated and legit.
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u/iwetmymaidpants_ 9d ago
I like when it goes up tho, just made 12% profit with this last bump episodd
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u/mlajszczak Ponzi Schemer 11d ago
> At best, the price of crypto is a function of popularity, not actual value or material utility. And this "popularity" has been waning for years.
contemplate this. if popularity is going down *for years* and 200-week avg btc price keeps going up for years, what kind of 'function of popularity' btc price is?
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u/AmericanScream 11d ago
It's called, "Market manipulation."
In the very same post you quoted, there's numerous citations of evidence that the bitcoin market has been heavily manipulated from the early days to the present. I guess you ignored that, huh?
- We know Mt. Gox manipulated the price via two bots
- We have evidence of multiple times early exchanges engaged in manipulation and wash trading
- We have evidence stablecoin providers' reserves are not properly backed, not regulated, not transparent
- We have evidence all major crypto exchanges have been caught manipulating the market
- We have multiple, peer-reviewed papers analyzing trading patterns showing a vast amount of the crypto market appears to be wash trading bots.
What else do you need?
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u/mlajszczak Ponzi Schemer 11d ago
so it's not a function of popularity (or not only). im referring to this particular point, not other points.
the point about market manipulation is also poor - while there is manipulation, it does not explain most of the 200-week avg price.
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u/MindfulMan1984 11d ago
Why 200-week? Why not 100, 90, 88, 71, or 51 weeks' average price? This comment just shows how useless " technical analysis " is, because you can cherry-pick any window to create any bulshit narrative.
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u/mlajszczak Ponzi Schemer 11d ago
let me explain: we use moving average to smoothen charts - it's a typical thing to do in any sort of data analysis. 200-week avg for btc strips the chart of cyclical (and local) volatility and exposes the trend. and yes, it is arbitrary - like most metrics people define.
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u/AmericanScream 11d ago
Let's get something straight...
- Crypto exchanges set the price.
- Crypto exchanges are NOT regulated like traditional banks and brokerage houses -- despite people thinking they are.
- There's no SEC, no FDIC, no transparency of their order books.
- Most of these CEXs have been caught colluding and manipulating the market, as well as kiting liquidity back and forth and co-mingling client money with other funds, over and over again.
- There's over 170 Billlion in unsecured stablecoin monopoly money floating around the market as a proxy for actual liquidity, despite those reserves NOT being properly accounted for by any traditional audit standards.
- CEXs are largely unregulated - they do not have oversight. They are often located in jurisdictions where there's even more lax accounting and regulatory and extradition laws. This is by design so they are largely un-accountable.
- The CEXs and the stablecoin providers have draconian terms of service that basically allow them to freeze accounts at will and refuse to cash anybody out at any time, for any reason.
All the evidence suggests you can't trust any of these entities when they suggest the price is X.
You guys want to believe "it's different this time" but every single time we get a peek behind the doors of these CEXs, we see rampant fraud and market manipulation. By every. single. one. of. them. You name a CEX, there's evidence of fraud; there's a history of fraud. Name a defunct CEX and you'll find even more outrageous fraud. The one common thing all these CEXs share is FRAUD.
But go ahead and believe them.... it fits our contention that you guys are morons.
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u/CountGensler 11d ago
why do you ignore non centralized entities?
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u/AmericanScream 10d ago
There is no such thing in the world of crypto. Behind every decentalized project, you'll find a dev team, usually with no dependence upon consensus.
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u/AmericanScream 11d ago
Popularity is the public perception of what drives it.
Manipulation is the more likely primary factor that drives it.
They both work hand-in-hand.
while there is manipulation, it does not explain most of the 200-week avg price.
What's not to explain? Can you produce verifiable real people who have purchased X amount of crypto in the last 200 weeks?
We can look at the trade activity and see that it's arbitrage bots. There's scientific papers proving this.
If you want to 'believe' there's some organic upswell, feel free, but there's more evidence it's artificial.
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u/fishbizzzone warning, I am a moron 10d ago
So everyone in this sub thinks that the U.S dollar will remain on top for the rest of eternity? Not concerned about 40 Trillion of debt at all?
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u/AmericanScream 10d ago
Nice false dichotomy and strawman argument there.
Yes we are concerned about the debt, but bitcoin can't fix that.
Bitcoin can't make political leaders prioritize paying down the debt.
And if you think moving the entire economy to be based on bitcoin would be easier than simply electing political leaders who would prioritize paying down the national debt, you're a moron.
For your next trick you should suggest we can combat climate change by changing the orbit of the earth around the sun.
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u/fishbizzzone warning, I am a moron 10d ago
Where should we try and store our money to beat the demise of the dollar?
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u/AmericanScream 10d ago
Where should we try and store our money to beat the demise of the dollar?
Stupid Crypto Talking Point #10 (value)
"Bitcoin/crypto is a 'store of value'" / "Bitcoin/crypto is 'digital gold'" / "Crypto is an 'investment'" / "Bitcoin is 'hard money'" / "Bitcoin has value because of the 'Network Effect'"
Crypto's "value" is unreliable and highly subjective. It cannot be used as a currency or to pay for almost anything in any major country. It has high requirements and risk to even be traded. At best it's a speculative commodity that a very small set of people attribute value to. That attribution is more based on emotion and indoctrination than logic, reason, evidence, and utility.
Crypto is too chaotic to be any sort of reliable store of value over time. Its price can fluctuate wildly based on everything from market manipulation to random tweets. No reliable store of value should vary in "value" 10-30% in a single day, yet many cryptos do.
Crypto's value is extrinsic. Any "value" associated with crypto is based on popularity and not any material or intrinsic use. See this detailed video debunking crypto as 'digital gold'
Extrinsic vs Intrinsic value - Some argue "all value is subjective" - this is false, and a philosophical distraction. Certain things are intrinsically valuable because whether people believe in them, they are needed, like fresh water, real estate, food, etc. 100% of crypto's value is subjective/extrinsic.
Note for fans of the Austrian school of economics: Yes, we know you believe, "all value is subjective" and "There's no such thing as 'intrinsic' value." But sorry, words do mean things and you don't get to re-define stuff just to try and win an argument. Your philosophy - as a matter of policy - also intentionally ignores empirical evidence, which means it can't be proven/disproven; is not a scientific/logical construct and thus, not subject to rational debate, and therefore can be dismissed wholesale.
Even gold, while being a lousy investment and also an undesirable store of value in the modern age, at least has material use and utility. Crypto does not. And whether you think gold's price is not consistent with its material utility, if that really were the case then gold would not be used industrially. But it is. Furthermore gold's extrinsic value is a product of its intrinsic properties: if it weren't oxidation resistant, it wouldn't be suitable for jewelry. So even when arguing gold's value is more based on popularity, you can't escape the value of its unique material properties being a component of that popularity. Crypto has no such intrinsic component. So it's inappropriate to compare the two.
The supposed "value" of crypto is based on reports from unregulated exchanges, most of whom have been caught manipulating the market and inflation introduced by unsecured stablecoins. There's nothing "organic" or "natural" about it. It's an illusion.
The operation of crypto is a negative-sum-game, which means that in order for bitcoin/crypto to even exist, there must be a constant operation of third parties who must find it profitable to operate the blockchain, which requires the price to constantly rise, which is mathematically impossible, and the moment this doesn't happen, the network will collapse, at which point crypto will cease to exist, much less hold any value. This has already happened to tens of thousands of cryptocurrencies.
The "Network Effect" argument is just the Appeal to Popularity Fallacy - Just because something is popular does not make it inherently valuable. Especially if that popularity is primarily based on marketing and coercion and not actual material utility or intrinsic value.
Many of the most trusted, most successful entities in the world of finance do not consider crypto/bitcoin to be a reliable store of value. Crypto is prohibited from being used as collateral by the DTC and respectable institutions such as Vanguard do not believe crypto belongs in their investment portfolio.
There is not a single example of anything like crypto, which has no material use and no intrinsic value, holding value over a long period of time across different cultures. This is not because "crypto is different and unique." It's because attributing value to an utterly useless piece of digital data that wastes tons of energy and perpetuates tons of fraud,makes no freaking sense for ethical, empathetic, non-scamming, non-exploitative, non-criminal people.
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u/fishbizzzone warning, I am a moron 10d ago
So where do we put our hard earned money then that doesnt answer my question? The S&P then?
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u/AmericanScream 10d ago
You put your hard earned money where most people put their hard earned money and have been doing for decades if not centuries: real estate, assets that improve the quality and productivity of your life first and foremost. Then if you have extra, put it into stocks or ETFs that represent companies with a reliable track record of creating value and paying dividends.
Yes, the S&P 500 ETF has generally out-performed everything over the long run.
Crypto creates no value. It's an incredibly shitty "store of value."
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u/AmericanScream 10d ago
the demise of the dollar?
Stupid Crypto Talking Point #3 (inflation)
"InFl4ti0n!!!" / "The dollar will eventually become worthless" / "The dollar has lost 104% of its value since 1900!" / "The government prints money out of thin air"
The "OMG iNfLaTiOn!" argument is a common one put forth by crypto bros. In addition to being fallacious (Tu Quoque, Whataboutism) it's an ignorant and shallow attempt to make people not have faith in fiat, and somehow believe bitcoin would be a reasonable alternative because it's supposedly deflationary and a better store of value. All of those premises are false.
Beyond that, crypto bros pretend there's one principal type of "inflation" and that is "monetary inflation" which by contrast makes Bitcoin's scarcity some type of reasonable alternative. In reality, there are different types of inflation. The most common one is "price inflation" which has nothing to do with how much money is in circulation. "Monetary inflation" is the least significant type of inflation in modern times, but crypto bros single out this element because it's the best scenario where they can argue their deflationary currency helps, but that's false. The causes of inflation are many, and the amount of money in circulation is one of the least significant factors in causing the prices of things to rise. More prominent inflationary causes are things like: corporate greed & price gouging, fuel prices, supply chain issues, war, environmental disasters, one-time COVID mitigations, pandemics, and even car dealerships.
The government does not "print money out of thin air"... all money in circulation is tightly regulated and regularly audited and publicly transparent. The organization that manages the money in circulation is the Federal Reserve and contrary to what crypto bros claim, they're not a private cabal - they are overseen and regulated by Congress. It's a delicate balance between money issuance and the status of the economy. And any attempt to increase debt requires an Act of Congress to increase the debt ceiling - it's neither arbitrary, nor easy to do.
Crypto bros use "cash" as an example of wealth storage, but most people do not store their wealth in fiat. Currency is meant to be spent, not hoarded. A dollar today will buy what it buys. If you hold a dollar for 90 years, of course it won't buy the same thing decades later (although it might actually be worth significantly more as antique money). Crypto creates no value and makes a lousy "investment."
If you are looking to "invest" you don't keep your value in cash/currency/fiat. You put it into something that can create value like stocks that pay dividends, real estate, interesting bearing accounts, and other personal property that allows you to be more productive (thereby creating additional value) as well as helps stimulate the economy. Crypto does none of that.
Bitcoin also hasn't proven to be a hedge against anything, least of all monetary inflation. There are more and more studies that show Bitcoin is not a hedge against inflation . Some argue bitcoin is a liquidity barometer and not a hedge.
Some inflation is a by-product of a healthy economy: Over time more money is put in circulation - some pretend this is a bad thing, but it's not done in a vacuum. The average annual wage in 1900 was less than $4000. In 2023 it's more than $70,000! There's more people out there and the monetary supply grows appropriately, as does wages. You can't take one element of the monetary system completely out of context and ignore everything else.
Sure there may be some nations that have caused out of control inflation as a result of their monetary policy (such as Zimbabwe, Argentina, Venezuela, Sudan, etc) but comparing modern nations to third-world dictatorships is absurd. The real problems these countries face are a more complex function of poor leadership + other political/environmental factors, not monetary systems, and crypto doesn't fix any of that.
If bitcoin and crypto was an actually disruptive, stable, useful technology, you wouldn't need to promote lies and scare people over the existing system. The real reason you do this is because nobody can find any legitimate reason to use crypto in the first place.
Crypto ironically has more inflation in its ecosystem that is even more out of control, than in any traditional fiat system. At least with the US Dollar, money is accounted for and fully audited and it takes an Act of Congress to increase the debt. In crypto, all it takes is a dude printing USDT, USDC, BUSD or any of the other unsecured stablecoins to just print more out of thin air, and crypto-morons assume they're worth $1 of value.
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u/Snapper716527 12h ago
Any asset really: Stocks, Gold, Real estate, Art. Anything with a real value beats inflation and then some.
Just put it in S&P 500. Easiest option for noobs.
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u/Affectionate-Most761 11d ago
It is.
It does.
It will continue.
Cope more.
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u/AmericanScream 10d ago
Stupid Crypto Talking Point #25 (fomo)
"COPE!" / "You're just jealous because you lost out on making $$$" / "If you bought crypto back when you started complaining, you'd be rich now." / "Have fun staying poor" / "Everyone buys bitcoin at the price they deserve"
This is one of the many examples of Ad Hominem falllacies you guys pull out. Instead of staying on-topic, you pivot to, "HFSP" or "cope" or "ur jealous" so you can avoid actually arguing in good faith. Instead you attack the messenger as a distraction.
It's quite odd that pro-crypto people seem to think there are no other ways to create wealth and value, other than playing the "crypto casino."
What they likely mean is that, there appears to be no other way to pretend you can get a return while doing nothing, and not knowing anything about finance, economics, investing, or technology. We will grant you that. We can't think of any more obnoxious notion than buying a useless digital abstraction believing it will somehow make you super-rich in the future.
The truth is, there are plenty of ways to make money and create wealth and be successful without defrauding others in a giant decentralized Ponzi scheme. In fact, many of us are already quite financially secure which is why we have the time to debate these issues: we know better. We know there are more reliable and honorable ways to create value than making risky bets in an unregulated casino that is run by anonymous scammers and sociopaths.
It's very revealing that pro-crypto people seem to think the only reason anybody would be opposed to their schemes is either because they're hateful or jealous. That's classic psychological projection. Crypto-bros' notion that doing something for the betterment of humanity without any personal material gain, makes no sense, says a lot about what kind of people they are: sociopaths, narcissists, psychopaths, etc. It takes a very low empathy person to not recognize there are some beneficial reasons to oppose crypto.
If we have an aversion to crypto, it's because it involves and promotes: fraud, deception, human trafficking, illegal/dangerous drug dealing, sanctions and human rights violations, money laundering, violent cartels, terrorism, wasting huge amounts of energy accomplishing nothing, dictatorships, global climate change, scams and more. Many [decent, ethical, moral, empathetic] people consider those "bad things" worth "hating." Many of us know family and friends who were defrauded in various crypto schemes. We'd like to avoid that happening to others.
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11d ago edited 11d ago
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/AmericanScream 10d ago
Stupid Crypto Talking Point #18 (Few Understand)
"You don't understand" / "DYOR" / Using an insult in lieu of an argument.
- This is what's known as an "Ad Hominem" fallacy - aka "attacking the messenger" as a distraction from arguing the core points made.
- This is what we call, "Crypto Gaslighting." Crypto proponents pretend that we're not smart enough to recognize the value of crypto, therefore there's something wrong with us and not the phony reality they're peddling.
- Almost never does the OP actually explain what it is they understand and we don't. It's merely a way to dismiss any opposing viewpoint without actually addressing it.
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u/icebeamtheory Ponzi Schemer 11d ago
hows the walmart late shift treating you? are you typing this from the parking lot?
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u/AmericanScream 11d ago
hows the walmart late shift treating you? are you typing this from the parking lot?
Stupid Crypto Talking Point #25 (fomo)
"COPE!" / "You're just jealous because you lost out on making $$$" / "If you bought crypto back when you started complaining, you'd be rich now." / "Have fun staying poor" / "Everyone buys bitcoin at the price they deserve"
This is one of the many examples of Ad Hominem falllacies you guys pull out. Instead of staying on-topic, you pivot to, "HFSP" or "cope" or "ur jealous" so you can avoid actually arguing in good faith. Instead you attack the messenger as a distraction.
It's quite odd that pro-crypto people seem to think there are no other ways to create wealth and value, other than playing the "crypto casino."
What they likely mean is that, there appears to be no other way to pretend you can get a return while doing nothing, and not knowing anything about finance, economics, investing, or technology. We will grant you that. We can't think of any more obnoxious notion than buying a useless digital abstraction believing it will somehow make you super-rich in the future.
The truth is, there are plenty of ways to make money and create wealth and be successful without defrauding others in a giant decentralized Ponzi scheme. In fact, many of us are already quite financially secure which is why we have the time to debate these issues: we know better. We know there are more reliable and honorable ways to create value than making risky bets in an unregulated casino that is run by anonymous scammers and sociopaths.
It's very revealing that pro-crypto people seem to think the only reason anybody would be opposed to their schemes is either because they're hateful or jealous. That's classic psychological projection. Crypto-bros' notion that doing something for the betterment of humanity without any personal material gain, makes no sense, says a lot about what kind of people they are: sociopaths, narcissists, psychopaths, etc. It takes a very low empathy person to not recognize there are some beneficial reasons to oppose crypto.
If we have an aversion to crypto, it's because it involves and promotes: fraud, deception, human trafficking, illegal/dangerous drug dealing, sanctions and human rights violations, money laundering, violent cartels, terrorism, wasting huge amounts of energy accomplishing nothing, dictatorships, global climate change, scams and more. Many [decent, ethical, moral, empathetic] people consider those "bad things" worth "hating." Many of us know family and friends who were defrauded in various crypto schemes. We'd like to avoid that happening to others.
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u/Curious-Savings6346 11d ago
lol, cope harder.
5
u/AmericanScream 11d ago
lol, cope harder.
Stupid Crypto Talking Point #25 (fomo)
"COPE!" / "You're just jealous because you lost out on making $$$" / "If you bought crypto back when you started complaining, you'd be rich now." / "Have fun staying poor" / "Everyone buys bitcoin at the price they deserve"
This is one of the many examples of Ad Hominem falllacies you guys pull out. Instead of staying on-topic, you pivot to, "HFSP" or "cope" or "ur jealous" so you can avoid actually arguing in good faith. Instead you attack the messenger as a distraction.
It's quite odd that pro-crypto people seem to think there are no other ways to create wealth and value, other than playing the "crypto casino."
What they likely mean is that, there appears to be no other way to pretend you can get a return while doing nothing, and not knowing anything about finance, economics, investing, or technology. We will grant you that. We can't think of any more obnoxious notion than buying a useless digital abstraction believing it will somehow make you super-rich in the future.
The truth is, there are plenty of ways to make money and create wealth and be successful without defrauding others in a giant decentralized Ponzi scheme. In fact, many of us are already quite financially secure which is why we have the time to debate these issues: we know better. We know there are more reliable and honorable ways to create value than making risky bets in an unregulated casino that is run by anonymous scammers and sociopaths.
It's very revealing that pro-crypto people seem to think the only reason anybody would be opposed to their schemes is either because they're hateful or jealous. That's classic psychological projection. Crypto-bros' notion that doing something for the betterment of humanity without any personal material gain, makes no sense, says a lot about what kind of people they are: sociopaths, narcissists, psychopaths, etc. It takes a very low empathy person to not recognize there are some beneficial reasons to oppose crypto.
If we have an aversion to crypto, it's because it involves and promotes: fraud, deception, human trafficking, illegal/dangerous drug dealing, sanctions and human rights violations, money laundering, violent cartels, terrorism, wasting huge amounts of energy accomplishing nothing, dictatorships, global climate change, scams and more. Many [decent, ethical, moral, empathetic] people consider those "bad things" worth "hating." Many of us know family and friends who were defrauded in various crypto schemes. We'd like to avoid that happening to others.
10
u/MindfulMan1984 11d ago edited 11d ago
Great pinned post; 3 should be in bold. I know crypto-bros are delusional and think "this time is different", but here's the proof: ~3.5 billion counterfeit dollars pumped into the crypto-circus during the last few hours.
Honest question: who do you think received those billions of counterfeit dollars in the last few hours? OP's point 3 explains that.
1,000,000,000 $USDT
$USDT(1,000,100,000 USD) minted at Tether Treasury
https://t.co/In756XOE5c
1,000,000,000 $USDT
(1,000,045,000 USD) Minted at Tether Treasury
https://whale-alert.io/transaction/tron/24b45554e4cf2c450518e46c7b8cb9a4fb54fdb23f68ba150e8dbe2d5431f50d
1,000,000,000 $USDT (999,910,541 USD) minted at Tether Treasury
https://t.co/Cg6P2xg7tZ
250,000,000 $USDC
(250,001,500 USD) Minted at USDC Treasury
https://t.co/EwdBZzOBTx
250,000,000
$USDC (250,009,250 USD) minted at USDC Treasury
https://t.co/m56hUYMD2R