r/CFD • u/PerfectCodings • 7d ago
Is it better to outsource engineering simulation work or buy simulation software in-house?
For context, it's thermal and internal flow stuff, and only a few studies a year.
I'm trying to look at this by the numbers, not just trusting my guts.
So where's the tipping point for you? I think the license cost is the number everyone sees.
But I think we should also consider stuff like validation, getting good at prepping the model for the software, and keeping someone practiced enough to trust their own results.
For teams that only do this a few times a year, what made you pick one way over the other?
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u/HW90 6d ago
If the stuff you do each year is roughly the same, pay someone to develop an OpenFOAM workflow plus a retainer for support, then get a current employee that you expect to be around for a long time to learn that workflow.
Otherwise, I'd outsource. The threshold before it makes sense to have in-house CFD is quite high and I'm not sure that open source versus commercial solvers really affects that decision. Finding someone who is capable of both CFD and something else to keep them busy for the rest of the time, plus actually knows what they're doing, especially for open source solvers, is a higher bar than it seems.
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u/thunder1blunder 7d ago
Based on the requirement and frequency you can go for a commercial lic if it is a recurring project/s. If you are not going to need simulation as frequently (handfullnof projects a year) then it .akra sense to outsource it.
Since you mentioned you are doing thermal and internal flows inwould recommend doing it inhouse using open-source tools as the method and workflow exists and validation if fairly easy compared to complex physics like combustion and or multiphase - given you have good testing data to validate against.
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u/big_deal 6d ago
In my experience software licensing is about 1/4 to 1/3 of the cost. Computing resources (workstations, and either cloud or in-house HPC server) and labor for experienced analytical engineers are the largest costs.
Computer costs and lead times have gotten ludicrous recently.
And even if you’re going to train your own analytical engineers, it’s a new role that will require hiring someone to backfill whatever they’re doing now. If you don’t have enough analytical work to make it a full time position or department then you’re probably better off outsourcing.
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u/derioderio 6d ago
If you don’t have enough analytical work to make it a full time position or department then you’re probably better off outsourcing
I agree. There's a point at which you need your own modeling and simulation person (or team). If you end up spending enough money to a CFD company that you could pay for a full-time modeling and simulation expert, then you should go ahead an hire your own person to do it.
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u/Otherwise-Platypus38 6d ago
You don’t need to hire a CFD engineer for this. Either one of your engineers might know it already and use open-source or on demand solutions. Otherwise, use consultancy, but you need to know how much of the data is trustworthy.
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u/No_Charisma 6d ago
Every engineer I’ve ever worked with who didn’t do a CFD focus in grad school (or at least work with someone who did) uses it completely incorrectly. SST for every single study regardless of objective and y+ in the area of interest in the 300-500 range. I’m in an “airflow intensive” industry and you would be shocked how few engineers have any clue.
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u/Otherwise-Platypus38 5d ago
That is what I said. An engineer who knows CFD is better than a CFD engineer.
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u/HeadPack 7d ago
OpenFOAM is no option?
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u/acakaacaka 6d ago
Then you need to learn, make the IT guy install it, manage version, make sure you can open it, yada yada yada
I mean if the company has something else to do, outsourcing is not a bad idea
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u/HeadPack 6d ago
That yada, yada, yada applies to commercial packages too, doesn't it? Or are there any that open themselves, have no learning curve and never a new version?
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u/Jolly_Run_1776 6d ago
well it's hard to argue that openfoam is easier to install and control than commercial softwares :')
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u/mckirkus 6d ago
If you only use AI to set up and manage OpenFOAM, and use humans for the important bits, it can be pretty cheap.
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u/derioderio 6d ago
When you are buying a commercial package, you are also buying access to their technical support. That includes help with all those things, and also training on their software, help with building and running models, etc.
Sure it's not cheap, but when time = money, faster and more expensive is often better than cheaper and taking several months longer.
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u/HeadPack 6d ago
I agree, you get these benefits if you pay for them, but you can also employ someone versed in OpenFOAM. Whether that someone would earn more or less than someone driving e.g. Ansys is part of the numbers game.
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u/ParanoidalRaindrop 2d ago
Depends on the software. Something like StarCCM is barely worth it if you can't use all year long. If you have the knowledge and free / cheap software, do it yourself, otherwise have it done.
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u/lazyRichW 17h ago
The break even point seems to be around 7 to 8 jobs per year for the type of jobs you mentioned.
The benefit of doing it in house is the flexibility and internal knowledge which can be transfered to other teams. Needs to be an experienced engineer who understands the physics of the problem.
I own a consultancy and we are typically only engaged once per project. Ofcourse we would answer questions whenever needed but it typically doesn't flow that way. If there is someone internal who is connected with other teams (field etc) they can quickly support what ifs etc.
I've tried commercial software vs OpenFOAM and once you have an OpenFOAM workflow setup its orders of magnitude more efficient (cost and time).
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u/Over_Cost_3257 7d ago
As someone who looked for cfd job for a long time, take someone who knows open foam. Then only pay the person not the corp.