What makes a character compelling?

[u/Icy-Cloud3789]

More or less the title. What aspects of characters, specifically villains/antagonists, do people find invigorating enough that they can 'look past' their crimes and lack of morality to make them a favourite?

...And I'm not talking about being good-looking, please; that's hardly an excuse.

Is it personality? Is it reasons/purpose? Backstory? If so, examples of such?

[u/Jolly-Rip5973]

1. There needs to be unanswered questions about the character that make you want to keep reading to find out what the answers are.
2. There should be unresolved issues so you want to keep reading to find out how the issues are resolved.
3. The character should be relatable.
4. The character should have laudable (admirable) characters.
5. The characters should have laudable virtues. In Greek philosophy and traditional literature being virtuous is actually what defines being a "hero".
6. Character should have some relatable weaknesses. Superman needs his kryptonite. If there is not danger or threat to the character, the character is boring.
7. Character building would include background stories that explain the characters behavior, maybe even odd behaviors but pieces of the backstory should be revealed slowly over time without giving away the full picture.
8. There should good experiences that character has that people can relate to as something they would like and some negative experiences which people can sympathize with.

Personally, I think world building is greater than character design. If the world isn't interesting to learn about, the novel won't keep my interest.

You learn about the world through the eyes of the character and how he interacts with the world.

I realize the trend is to make anti-heros and criminal protagonists but honestly the older patterns used in literate resonate with humans powerfully.

A lot of people have misory in their lives, who the eff wants to read about more misory?

[u/KeyRoutine1285 → u/Jolly-Rip5973]

Wow, “worldbuilding is more important than character” is not something you hear everyday! There truly is an audience for everyone.

You’ve made some nice points. For me, a significant lack of virtues makes for a much more interesting protagonist. Another unpopular opinion.

And to the “a lot of people have misery in their lives, who wants to hear about more?” another wow from me! My entire series is titled after the concept of misery, pain, and suffering. We couldn’t see things more differently on that regard. Respect, though! It fascinates me how different people are.

[u/Jolly-Rip5973 → u/KeyRoutine1285]

See....you think about all the things mentioned and I you have Robert Heinlein, JRR Tolkien, Frank Hubert, George R.R. Martin.

Pretty much the patterns that made some of the best selling authors of the last 100 years.

Not many people are going to want read about pain, suffering and misery.

You do you, because you certainly not writing for an audience.

[u/KeyRoutine1285 → u/Jolly-Rip5973]

I think you read my comment in the wrong tone. I was surprised to see how different our perspectives are and how different it is from what I heard. I even said I respect your opinion and tried to word this in a nice way—because I meant it in a nice way.

Many people would like to read about nice things, hopeful things, fantastical things. And many people will want to read about brutish realities, misery and suffering. Because people are different, and have vastly ranging interests. That’s what I said…

I was entirely positive towards you and I’m sorry you misunderstood what I said.

[u/Jolly-Rip5973 → u/KeyRoutine1285]

Oh, don't take it that way....it's just a comment on how the attitudes of "artist" have change over the last 100 years.

I read some tragedy when I was high school and it actually depressed me.

There are the successful patterns that highly successful storyteller have used for 2000 years though which resulted in very popular and successful book series and I listed those traditional patterns.

Those are the patterns that Tolkien used for example.

[u/KeyRoutine1285 → u/Jolly-Rip5973]

That part I got until you started to sound a bit upset and said that, definitely “not many people want to read about misery”, and that “you do whatever cause you don’t have an audience”. That’s kind of how it sounded. Perhaps you meant that I shouldn’t care about the audience and to do what I want?

The part about not many people liking harsh topics can’t be true, as GRRM himself bases his world around horrid things happening as well. Perhaps we misunderstood eachother.

[u/Jolly-Rip5973 → u/KeyRoutine1285]

I'm one of the those super analytical aspi type people that fairly devoid of emotion.

Try to strip any perceived emotion out of it and look at it as objective analysis...

Sure, there are some people that revel in reading about misery...but what percent of the population is that?

There is a small subset of the population that is Emo, nihilist or melancholic.

Asking yourself just what audience you are actually trying to write for wouldn't hurt you. All good product design starts with that question.

That's a real questions for all artists;
Are you creating art for yourself and your own personal expression or are you creating art for an intended audience?

[u/KeyRoutine1285 → u/Jolly-Rip5973]

I see. I fear your subjectiveness is kind of getting in the way of understanding me.

I’d like to mention some of your points which I personally also believe are not ideal. Most readers want characters and emotions, and are not most interested in just worldbuilding.

As I said, GRRM is a character writer as well as a world-builder. I also am like that. I think we have different beliefs of what is truly popular.

Obviously nobody writes about just pain and suffering. My book has lots of comedy, world-building, politics and stakes. It isn’t a whiny memoir about the human condition. It’s my fault I made it seem that way.

I couldnt agree more on your take about audiences. In fact, I am writing for an audience. Which exists. Seeing we have different tastes, it makes sense you wouldn’t be familiar with my target audience. I am being very empathetic in trying to understand your POV, as I did in my original comment. But due to your personality, which you’ve described as “devoid of emotion”, I see why we also cannot have the same capacity of understanding the variety of people.

[u/Jolly-Rip5973 → u/KeyRoutine1285]

ok