r/CompetitiveEDH • u/No-Cricket9262 • 2d ago
Help, I am new to cEDH! New to cedh
I would like some help with a deck I’m working on.
I have made some serious changes to my list recently. The main changes was I was able to snag a gemstone caverns, a git probe, Mindbreak trap, and best laid plans.
I swapped out alter of the brood and a couple of under performing cards.
The main win lines are as follows.
Thassa lines. Bloodchief ascension mindcrank lines, and foodchain lines utilizing Mothman or hullbreaker horror to generate infinite rad counters.
I’m open to changes but while some things look weird they have worked in the games I have played and while goldfishing I have consistently won by turns 2-5.
I’m definitely trying to learn and would definitely be open to any suggestions.
List below, please let me know what you think!
Been working on this list for a few years with the idea that Mothman had some potential that people were not seeing much of. I know that he has been played with a lot of counters matter and mill matters builds. But that’s not what I went for and with those builds he put up some results, not great but some.
This build isn’t like that, it’s purely combo driven with lines benefitting and unique to Mothman.
https://archidekt.com/decks/11630320/project_mothman_v12
There is some evidence that Mothman can do well
He top 8 in this tournament here
https://mail.mtgtop8.com/event?d=710093&e=67426&f=cEDH
I’m not saying he can be a tier one commander, but I do think he has more potential than expected and maybe deserves a look
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u/Upstairs-Coconut4201 2d ago
This is not a cedh deck. This MIGHT be a bracket 4 deck at best.
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u/No-Cricket9262 2d ago
What makes it not a cedh deck? Purely because of the commander? I will say that most of the meta commanders started because someone had an idea about a commander and decided to try it and I tried my absolute best to build it up using the best tools I can. Is there anything I’m missing?
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u/Upstairs-Coconut4201 2d ago
Cedh commanders do the following things…
Provide exceptional card advantage with low barrier.
Turn on free/discounted spells for cheap.
Win when they hit the board.Mothman does none of those things and costs 4 mana.
Also, sultai is just terribly positioned currently. It’s a turn too slow.
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u/No-Cricket9262 2d ago
That’s fair! Question, is there no cedh commanders that act as a wincon?
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u/Upstairs-Coconut4201 2d ago
Sure. But limited. Etali. Ral. Thrasios. Off the top of my head
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u/No-Cricket9262 2d ago
Thank you! That is what I’m trying to do with Mothman, only really cast him when I can immediately combo and gives me extra axis of attack. Think of him like a combo piece int he command zone
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u/Boring_Report5568 2d ago
4cmc nothing but a combo piece, provides mediocre color, wins by passing to enemy main phase. Simply not good enough.
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u/No-Cricket9262 2d ago
I mean it does have some tournament standing check my edit in original posting and I have been considering running altar of the brood and walking ballista which would give me another avenue of attack, so 3 things to possibly cast with foodchain if commander option is not the best IE drannith or if they may have a way to interact before they draw out and die
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u/Upstairs-Coconut4201 1d ago
Pointing to a single rogue Mothman deck is a ridiculous way to value the card.
You actively seem disinterested in listening to the multitudes of people who are telling you it’s not good enough for cedh. So go build it, get stomped out for a few tournaments, then come back and tell us we were right.
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u/No-Cricket9262 19h ago
I’m not saying it’s a secret tech or nothing I’m just saying it’s not as far fetched as people think here is another example. I’m just saying that maybe it hasn’t been cracked yet and it has more potential than people think. If I’m wrong after trying my hardest then I’ll admit it and I will swap but only after doing my own due diligence on it.
I’m not discounting what you all are saying, I’m really not I have just put a lot of effort into this and not willing to just drop all of that because that’s how it’s always been or it hasn’t shown up that well in the past.
Let’s just pause here, if you were building the wise Mothman and giving it an honest shot what would you change about my list to give it its best shot?
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u/PurpleWedgeMan 2d ago
The question you need to be asking is not “what makes it not cedh deck”, but “why would you play this deck over other cedh commanders”? All CEDH commanders has a distinct advantage over other commanders, which makes it viable.
“Because it’s different” isn’t a real advantage.
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u/No-Cricket9262 2d ago
No that wasn’t my reason by any means. My reason is I wanted something similar to gitrog where I started but I wanted more interaction due to not having blue mana. And I saw Mothman and thought that it could have some potential, I saw games with it on cedh channels and playing with power and thought that I could something with that.
I went ahead and had many and I mean many iterations of this deck I finally have it where I would want it. And it has out up wins, I just need more experience with it and I have a final few flex slots I think.
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u/PurpleWedgeMan 2d ago
That doesn’t answer the question though. What does moth man bring to the table? Better colours? Faster win con? Better protected win con? Easier combos? Utility in the command zone?
The answer is leaning no for all of these. The only advantage I see is a brewers advantage, but the win lines are standard sultai win lines anyway. Why not just play glarb?
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u/No-Cricket9262 2d ago
Brewers advantage? What do you mean? And it does have better colors than my previous commander gitrog. Mothman acts as both pressure and a unique wincon via rad counters via either infinite mana and infinite storm count to either cast Mothman infinitely to give everyone 100 rad counters and or proliferate endlessly to give everyone 100 rad counters via hull breaker infinite mana and rad storm combo.
This is they way I think of it, I want my deck to be able to act independently and win without Mothman, like the engine is going and then press the gas and summon Mothman to either end the game or provide free interaction and or start the countdown with a single rad counter. That was my idea anyway, so I’m treating him like a Volvo piece that only use if I have the ways to combo with him.
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u/PurpleWedgeMan 1d ago
Brewers advantage means no one knows what it does so they do not know the correct interaction points to stop them. This normally applies to off meta builds which run obscure, but still good, combo lines which can let it scam out a win.
Based on what you have said, you run traditional combo lines for infinite mana etc so people will still be able to see it coming, so it wouldn’t apply here.
There’s nothing wrong with having a combo piece in the commandzone, but generally you’ll want it to be both a combo piece and a value engine.
Not only that, you are sacrifice red and white to do it.
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u/No-Cricket9262 1d ago
That makes sense! Yeah some of my combo lines use food chain mana, others use hull breaker horror and fast mana to generate infinite mana and infinite storm count to proliferate infinitely. I’m also considering adding back altar of the brood or walking ballista as a additional payoff for food chain mana
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u/Ok_Conference_3206 1d ago edited 1d ago
Similar to gitrog is pretty wild this deck is not Similar to it at all 😂😂.
That being said, I think you should switch focus from being midrange to being turbo. I faced a guy on spelltable who built a very consistent t2 food chain deck with maralen fae as his commander and milled the table out that way. The reason I say this is lets look at some other midrange decks quickly. They all provide them some form of advantage through kinnan flips, or additional card draw through tymna or kraum to give them advantage as the game drags out or you hit a sort of stalemate. This commander does neither of those things. That along with the fact that underworld breach being one of the top wincons of the current meta, actively milling them is not a good plan unless you can close the game out that turn.
If you choose to ignore this advice I think you should take out walking ballista. Its a dead draw unless you have infinite mana and if you have infinite mana your commander is an outlet on its own. You could also main deck thrasios as an outlet that also provide additional value rather than just being there.
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u/No-Cricket9262 1d ago
I can take it out, and I mainly meant that it was also a graveyard deck and had lines I was comfortable with. But yeah that’s a good point, and I hadn’t thought of thrasios maybe I need to track him down
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u/The_Mormonator_ 1d ago
What would I have to do to convince you to port this list to Moxfield?
Outside of that I can think of a few cuts and ways to optimize the list. It’s Sultai food chain after all, been done in cEDH time and time again. I’ve played with and against Mothman plenty of times in cEDH…I just had a very sad feeling of nostalgia in wishing that the Nadu packages could still be a thing. Was such a cool engine.
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u/No-Cricket9262 1d ago
I can do that! It won’t take me very long and I agree I would love to have him and lotus and crypt in this deck lol
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u/Beginning-Process821 2d ago
mana drain but no force of will?
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u/Beginning-Process821 2d ago
also with a four mana commander mox amber feels a little slow
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u/No-Cricket9262 2d ago
What would you suggest in its place? And I have force of will it’s in my removal section
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u/rawrglesnaps 2d ago
https://edhtop16.com/commander/The%20Wise%20Mothman
If you win a single cedh game then you would be the best mothman player ever! But in all seriousness this is just not a viable cedh commander sorry dude. Looks like a fun bracket 4 deck though.