r/Competitiveoverwatch 20h ago

General Freja: Adressing current painpoints while retaining her viability.

As my favourite DPS in the game since her release, Freja, balance wise, is a character that had been in a terrible state for over 9 months, being consistently one of the worst performing DPS in the game. Her current iteration, thankfully, sees her at her most objectively balanced state yet with a near to around 50% winrate at all ranks. However, her current state also brings new pain points which are reflected in her resurging high ban rate. Here I propose some changes to retain her current performance while addressing her more irksome qualities.

Tweaks:

  • Removal of Relentless barrage minor perk: This minor perk is the current crux of her high spam potential into tanks allowing for endless primary fire pressure without downtime from her relatively long reload animation. Removing this perk alone would tone down her spam potential, by not only offering downtime but also making the Freja think twice before spamming the tank as it could leave her vulnerable to enemy DPS in a duel.
  • Nerf Freja's passive back to 25% ult charge down from 33%: Her current passive from a recent buff sees Freja receive 33% ult charge from getting 3 final blows. This was a buff that was given to her due to her low kill potential a few patches ago, but now that her lethality has been re-established I don't believe it is necessary anymore. This would tone down what can currently feel like non-stop Bola's if the Freja player is popping off.
  • Reduce her current sound stimuli: While I understand the sound design team has their hands full with the current hero cadence to redo some of Freja's sound design, at the very least reducing it from the enemies pov to between 10%-20% similarly to what they did to Sierra would be a good start to removing some of the headache and near constant perceived presence Freja can cause.
  • Increase her clip size from 15 to 18: Currently Freja can comfortably weave 6 primary fire shots in between every Take Aim. As such the 15 ammo can feel wonky when it comes to her third set of primary fire shots. With the removal of relentless barrage I think this would make her feel better to play and would be more than fair.
  • Decrease Bola cast time by 0.2 seconds: In a vacuum Bola is one of the worst DPS ults in the game. By reducing its frequency making it smoother and more consistent to use would be a good trade off.

With these changes I aimed to improve some jank from the Freja's perspective while addressing the most glaring pain points from the enemy's perspective. Hopefully if the balance team is to touch Freja in the near future they do something similar to this instead of nerfing the wrong things and making her terrible again while still leaving her annoying to face. Any thoughts?

28 Upvotes

76 comments sorted by

46

u/Dunwichorer 18h ago edited 18h ago

She'd still be banned a lot because you haven't meaningfully addressed anything with her damage+mobility.

2

u/The-Lychee 8h ago

Rapid Fire burst damage with great vertical mobility is a nightmare. If she can get even one elim, the whole playerbase thinks "nope!" even if said elim was like, a miracle.

Sombra's been in that ditch for a year now I think.

1

u/Dunwichorer 3h ago

I like playing doom occasionally but if a good freya is played it's just unplayable even more than CC stacking the enemy team can have.

3

u/Sauce_Master_64 18h ago edited 18h ago

Less spam + less ult = less damage
And her mobility is a necessity for her character to function

29

u/Dunwichorer 16h ago

The moment that flying characters have good breakpoints for eliminations they'll just be perma banned. The fire rate change and the 0.8 second fuse timer on take aim gave her that. She will never be something that people want to play against it's just baked into her design.

6

u/HerpesFreeSince3 18h ago

She still 2 tap kills in an instant from surprise angles while flying and being incredibly tough to hit due to unpredictable movement.

24

u/Sauce_Master_64 17h ago

She cannot 2 tap kill against most squishies anymore unless she lands a difficult headshot. She needs primary fire follow up.
Considering she has projectiles meanwhile Cass, Ashe, Souj have very similar or higher lethality for less mechanical requirement due to being hitscan and not having to deal with your own movement abilities throwing you off constantly i'd say her current TTK is more than fair.
And surprise angles are part of the skill ceiling of the character and the hero fantasy, her mobility is predictable though, that's why she is very prone to getting dove by character's like Genji or Tracer. If you see her fire 2-3 take aims in a row it's you're chance to jump her as she is going to have close to no mobility cooldowns.

12

u/cutetrampstamps 20h ago

honestly getting rid of that reload perk would make playing against her so much less annoying

18

u/Keywonhi 18h ago

She is too strong right now ofc but I really wonder how much players would be able to tolerate her more if they calmed down the VFX and sound of her bolts. Audio and visuals aren't considered enough for balance. Like how they still haven't added sound to cat flying.

5

u/Sauce_Master_64 17h ago

I wouldn't say she's too strong. The winrates show she has a near consistent ~50% winrate, she's just actually viable and competetive with most other lethal DPS after almost a year of being dogwater. But yes, compare the amount of noise feedback getting 2 shot by a Cass, Souj, Ashe produce vs being stuck by Freja's take aim. While the lethality between these character's is similar, Freja def stands out.

9

u/RobManfredsFixer Let Hog eat stuff and spit it back — 17h ago edited 16h ago

And here I am thinking we nerf the ammo to 12

Feels weird to remove the perk just to buff the base kit spam

9

u/Sauce_Master_64 16h ago

She has a long reload and chews threw her ammo quite fast due to the increased fire rate.
Getting rid of infinite ammo is one thing, making her neutral super clunky for no reason is another.

1

u/RobManfredsFixer Let Hog eat stuff and spit it back — 16h ago edited 16h ago

Then your post needs a 6th bullet point where the primary gets a DPS nerf.

The increased fire rate isn't a good justification for buffing the ammo count. You're trying to fix the minor downside of a significant DPS buff with a significant base kit spam buff.

2

u/Sauce_Master_64 12h ago

Taking into consideration lower TTK is what kept her dogwater with a ~43% winrate for more than 9 months, and now she is finally balanced no she does not need a DPS nerf.
Try firing a full m1 clip on Freja, watch the reload, and compare the firing uptime compared to most other DPS. One thing is infinite spam, another thing is keeping her in line with other DPS uptime.

2

u/RobManfredsFixer Let Hog eat stuff and spit it back — 12h ago edited 9h ago

Her TTK on squishies largely revolves around her breakpoints and consistency.

The fire rate buff and bolt timer buff significantly buffed her consistency, marginally buffed her TTK, and made her stronger without bringing back her double body shot kill on 250 HP heroes.

2 bolt bodyshots currently does 230 damage, killing 225 and below (more consistently with the shorter bolt explosion timer) and bringing 250 HP heroes to 20HP. A single primary does 30 damage and with a shorter bolt recovery time and a faster fire rate than before your chances of securing the kill before they get saved is significantly higher than pre-buffs.

Those primary shots would kill even if it only did 20 damage assuming no healing. They obviously shouldn't go that far, because they do need to consider healing, but there's plenty of room to nerf the damage output of each individual shot to nerf the spam without significantly affecting her breakpoints. You could make it 27 per bolt instead of 30 and she'd not only kill with 2 bolts and a primary, but she'd still kill with 1 bolt and 5 primaries.

They shouldn't increase her clip size, but if they do, they need to nerf her DPS and they have room to do so without absolutely dumpstering the hero again.

24

u/omglookimonreddit 20h ago

For me the aweful part about facing her is the fact that she has too much air movement.

For example, pharah is at most has one air dash for air movement, and she has a HUGE hit box, ECHO has a smaller hit box, but her flight has no dash while in flight.

Freja on the other hand, has a small hit box, has 1 up dash and 2 air dashes which reset her main DPS burst damage. Which allows her to peak and hide extremely quickly, a good freja is extremely annoying to deal with, and with the buff to her shots recovery speed, it is now worst than ever to deal with her

IMO, either make her easier to take down but she also has her burst, or make her have lesser burst and harder to take down. At the current state she has basicaly both, she is hard to take down and her burst is crazy.

6

u/Available_Hat_9833 18h ago

Echo has the biggest hitbox of them all, like, absolutely massive.

Oh and Pharah can use her conc as an improv airdash, but I’m afraid it’s a lost art.

Overall I agree tho, just being pedantic.

1

u/Automatic_Advice9561 13h ago

The conc for movement is still used, but it’s not a priority anymore, u will use it as emergency, or if y feel y can dive bomb someone

Edit: sometimes it’s used if it wanna do a dive bomb with a get out, ( Dive bombs shoot, conc to create range and predictable pattern shoot)

1

u/ShatteredStarlights 10h ago

Echo has like the third biggest hitbox of any non tank with 225 hp it's kinda absurd how dirty she's been done on that front. Pharah is still INCREDIBLY big and easy to hit though. Like, only slightly smaller than echo while having a worse air strafe compared to echo's flight. Pharah has more but slower mobility I feel like. Which makes sense, Echo is moreso designed as an assassin who can poke while Pharah is a character with strong poke who can assassinate.

9

u/Sauce_Master_64 18h ago

The problem with nerfing her mobility is that it is directly tied to her TTK due to her kit. That and making character's clunkier with higher cooldowns is never a good answer.
Her TTK is currently in line with other DPS, and her mobility is sort of what makes Freja...Freja...
Adressing spam like I tried to do here is the one thing that is easy to do and cuts down on her pressure significantly.

4

u/SmokingPuffin Mauga Mentality — 14h ago

That and making character's clunkier with higher cooldowns is never a good answer.

Disagree. Last patch's increase in Mauga stomp cooldown is a counterexample. A less recent and more obviously correct example is the Mercy GA cooldown nerf.

1

u/ShatteredStarlights 10h ago

Freja's entire hero fantasy is built around her mobility. It'd be like nerfing tracer blink or genji dash CD instead of toning down other pain points. Mauga's stomp is incredibly strong, but it's not designed to be the core of his kit.

2

u/SmokingPuffin Mauga Mentality — 9h ago

I agree. I don't think it's a good idea to nerf Freja's dash cooldown. It's too core to her gameplay.

I was speaking to the universalization of that principle. Sometimes cooldown increases are the right answer.

1

u/ShatteredStarlights 9h ago

oh yeah for sure, i'd agree, but i would still argue in most cases cooldown increases aren't the best way to go about nerfs unless there is a serious uptime problem, especially for mobility tools.

1

u/Sauce_Master_64 12h ago

I'm sorry but both the Mauga stomp and weapon bloom nerfs did nothing to actually adress why Mauga is busted op or disgusting to go against all it did is make him clunkier.
The answer is to nerf his sustain, either by nerfing how much healing he gets off overdrive or the amount of passive damage resistance he gets both in overdrive or stomp.
They should not have touched stomp or his weapon bloom since those are the least controversial parts of the kit and where the most skill lies.

0

u/SmokingPuffin Mauga Mentality — 12h ago

Mauga isn't OP. He's below average win rate and pick rate in almost every region and skill bracket. At best he's a Dmon counterpick, but Dmon was still absolutely everywhere in OWCS.

Mauga weapon bloom nerfs were confusing. We can try to understand it as them saying tanks shouldn't have long range pressure, but Dmon just launched with a high DPS, long-ranged gun.

Adding cooldown to Mauga stomp makes him more punishable when he makes a mistake. His core gameplay loop when played well is not changed. I see good upside and little downside to this change.

People do get triggered by Mauga sustain but it's core to the design. A rework away from berserker is worth considering but it is a difficult rework to execute.

2

u/Sauce_Master_64 12h ago

I'd rather have a Mauga have to reposition and give up space by running away when he makes a mistake more often then just be able to live said mistake and hold space by just pressing overdrive and just letting the damage resistance keep him alive even if he is getting very little healing from his own passive as his supports can more easily keep him alive.

0

u/SmokingPuffin Mauga Mentality — 11h ago

It's very hard to make a tank work in 5v5 without some mitigation button. In the event that you're trying to make Mauga do that, he's going to need a lot more than just a shorter cooldown on stomp.

2

u/Sauce_Master_64 11h ago

I wouldn't mind a lower cooldown on overdrive for less overall value. That way if you get a good chance to use it to claim space you can more easily go for it, such as if an enemy tank messes up their mitigation ability. However you can't just brainlessly press it and get free value from the mitigation alone without needing to give up space.

1

u/ShatteredStarlights 10h ago

To be fair D.mon's gun is a tickle monster with insane bloom until she gets the perk.

2

u/Urika86 17h ago

This is my biggest issue with her. The hitbox feels small and slightly off (might be the shape) and then you can hit one shot and her dash is so fast and omnidirectional that you can't reliably hit the follow up on her. So it doesn't feel like she has enough risk to her compared to other less mobile burst damage threats like Ashe, Soj, Cass etc.

2

u/Derpdude1 14h ago

Heavily down playing pharahs movement.

2

u/BurnedInTheBarn 16h ago

A removal of Relentless Barrage needs to come with being able to cancel reload with Take Aim. Sojourn can fire a rail while reloading her SMG.

"Obviously, rail is an ability while Take Aim is a secondary fire" – 🤓

Despite Anran's M2 being a secondary fire and not an ability, she can continue using either mode of fire once the other one is out. Baptiste has a setting, "disable automatic reload" which lets him empty both clips.

For the passive, I agree. That said, I'd much rather see it changed to 1 final blow giving 7%-11% ult charge, rather than 3 for 25% or 33%. I don't think this would go against the idea of bounty hunting and it smooths out the power spike from this passive. Last week, I triggered the passive and got literally 0% ult as I was at 99% and as I got the final blow, my ult charge ticked up by 1% due to damage or passive build. I know that because it was my 6th final blow of the round and the scoreboard still said 33% bonus ult charge gained.

If they wanted to make the bonus charge go to the shadow realm if you were too close to ult, then you wouldn't be able to store 3 final blows while having Bola. If you make it a flat number per final blow, you remove the scenarios where you get 0% ult and where you stored 3 FBs with Bola and can recharge it in one fight, both of which are absurdly stupid.

Reducing her current sound stimuli is a must. Being hit with a bolt is an insanely obnoxious experience, and I don't even play tank!

For clip size, I'd rather reduce it to 12 and remove spread. Spread is a lame mechanic anyway and only incentivizes shooting bigger hitboxes. Freja gives tanks enough cancer as is.

I'm down to decrease Bola cast time, but I'd prefer to allow Freja to use abilities while casting.

5

u/DarkFite Lucio OTP 4153 — 11h ago

Reduce her current sound stimuli: While I understand the sound design team has their hands full with the current hero cadence to redo some of Freja's sound design, at the very least reducing it from the enemies pov to between 10%-20% similarly to what they did to Sierra would be a good start to removing some of the headache and near constant perceived presence Freja can cause.

OMG Yes pleaseee! Her sound design combined with the spam is so insanely irritating. I dont need to hear that loud that i got hit by another spam second for second. This should be such a way bigger point

6

u/Blamore 11h ago

only 30% of the roster can shoot at fliers. fliers are just miserable to play against

3

u/Crafty-Plays 16h ago edited 16h ago

I think the idea of removing the relentless barrage minor perk and increasing the time between bola shots are nice as they help decrease her spam potential, though I don’t know if it would be enough to fix the issues a lot of people have with the character. To do that, I think they would have to completely retune Freya’s kit away from her explosive darts. It just comes down to being able to fire 2 darts in fairly rapid succession. Even with the .2 seconds delay, i don’t think the burst will be noticeably less.

2

u/Sauce_Master_64 12h ago

Seeing as the devs have their hands full with a hero release every season and the already planned Hero reworks, reworking Freja is just not gonna happen in the near future. All characters have frustration associated with going against their kit aside from when their aboslute dogwater. I hate going against Kiriko, Mei, Ana, etc... as a JQ main on tank but Im not asking for them to get reworked.
Getting Souj Railed is annoying, Cass flashbanged into a headshot is annoying, getting bolted by Freja is also annoying. It's fine. Removing some annoyance from their kits is acceptable but destroying the whole hero fantasy because I dont like going against their kits is a bit far off.

1

u/Crafty-Plays 7h ago edited 7h ago

I should clarify I wasn’t talking about reworking the character, I was more so referring to the idea of sliding around what in her kit makes her good and rebalancing her. One of the things she’s good at currently is nuking characters by spamming her darts and just nuking people and I think it would be nice if they were to move around the numbers for her to do that less and do something else better instead.

As for will they retune her? You are right, it would take a lot of their time to plan out so probably not.

4

u/weedyabyss 15h ago

Idk why they're allergic to trying something like adding damage fall off. Nobody wants to get spammed out by a gnat flipping through the air 50m away. It feels like shit and it's not even especially fun to be the one doing the spamming in the first place. Let's try giving her fall off over 35m and if it doesnt work they can just revert it, and if it does work then that's another thing they can tweak in the future

2

u/Sauce_Master_64 12h ago

I dont think damage falloff is a viable way to go. She is already projectile, and her shots are mechanically demanding with her own movement abilities throwing her off. Most Freja's will be playing in the midrange anyway since its where her shots are most consistent, try hitting 2 back to back freja bolts on super long range characters and unless their standing still or moving in straight lines you will see how hard it can be, against players with decent movement you may hit 1 stray take aim at long range but it'l never be consistent enough to kill. Her own kit already forces her to never be in Ashe range so I think it's fine as is.

1

u/ZealousidealHat2362 6h ago

Yea but she can zone chokes out way too good from long range

3

u/DankudeDabstorm 14h ago

I’m tired of Freja mains/players who keep pretending the hero is hated because of “sound design” and “ult charge”, the hero is hyper obnoxious and spams and I hate her because she deletes my hero by sneezing in my general direction. The perk does nothing to change that, if anything you reverted its effect by adding more bolt capacity. Fuck the fire rate and take-aim recovery buffs, they need to be reverted, no buts no ifs.

I don’t want to play a single game against Freja where she’s perched on some unreachable hg and spams every corner with a constant stream of bolts with very little risk and 10 Frejillion dmg. How awful it is to play tank against this hero, can’t interact with her almost at all most of the time, but unlike others in that category, she melts your barriers, melts your health, melts your everything.

1

u/Sauce_Master_64 12h ago

As someone who mains JQ and Ram on tank let me tell you alot of this criticism also applies to characters like Souj who just vomit damage at me and is uninteracteable due to slide or Ashe who can just perk up in a highground and be uncontesteable since as soon as I get close I can also just be coach gunned away or even widowmaker.
Freja can take weird highgrounds yes but her positioning is also very volatile. Due to the nature of her movement she's going to leave it very soon the moment she gets pressured since her movement and damage are intertwined, she can't just camp a spot like other characters can.
You may not like going against the character, that's your perogative but claiming she's the devil when other similar characters in her role can deal the same if not more damage with similar escape or discplament abilities is what I think is odd, especially when she is a mechanic based hero with no abilities that are free value by themselves, especially with her terrible ultimate.
The only thing that can make a Freja especially annoying to fight compared to other heroes is a Mercy pocket. Since a mobile character with a mobile pocket that also makes the super squishy character immortal due to flash heal is atrocious. But that's more of a problem with mercy's design then Freja herself.

1

u/DankudeDabstorm 12h ago

Ashe and Freja are not even close to each other in spam dmg output, she can maybe get close with max value dynamites. Sojourn’s a close contender, but she’s right on the threshold of being unbearable, but Freja still does way more spam dmg.

I contest an Ashe as Winston, I force her to use coach gun and maybe poke her out more under my bubble. I contest Freja, she zips out of my range, deletes my bubble and deletes me.

I need you to stop and reconsider what it’s like to play against Freja. I personally played Freja quite a bit before and played 2 matches with the buffs and it felt great, but then I played against it once and I immediately knew it can’t remain like this.

I’ve had recommendations on what to change the hero with in the past, and honestly take-aim should go back to 110 again and her dash cd should go down. A playstyle that uses mobility to play aggressively instead of using it to become the most obnoxious version of flying Hanzo.

1

u/Sauce_Master_64 12h ago

Winston is the classic bad match up into her. That's just part of the way the heroe's interact. But other tanks like D.va, Zarya, Sig can exploit going against a Freja so hard.
In my experience on JQ vs a Freja or a Souj or an Ashe i'd say it's about the same. Freja can dish out more theoretical damage but her damage is also more inconsistent since I can use my movement to more easily throw her shots over then I could with an Ashe or Souj who are hitscan.
The way to counter Freja on winston is the same way as every other dive character. Wait for her to shoot 2-3 take aims in a row, and then dive her, she will have close to no mobility cooldowns or take aims since that's how her kit intertwines.

2

u/DankudeDabstorm 12h ago

I’m tired of this incessant downplay for this hero. I changed my mind, it’s just audio and ult charge issues. How dumb could I have been. If she was just quieter and had ult slightly less frequently, I’ll feel fine about being deleted when I try to exist on the map in this hero’s field of vision.

6

u/Sauce_Master_64 12h ago

I mean I already adressed the brainless tank spam by removing her minor perk which is the crux of the issue but sure

2

u/ShatteredStarlights 10h ago

If she was so blatantly op then she would have seen actual significant playtime in pro play considering she has a strong matchup into D.mon, probably one of the best in the game pre-major perk, but she didn't. She's not broken, she's just annoying to fight and her countering Winston was the case even when she was ass. Have you considered that Winston is also garbage? Or do you force him into Mauga/Hog/Reaper/Bastion too?

1

u/DankudeDabstorm 10h ago

More downplay for the dmg vomiting spam machine

2

u/eikonoklastes_r 17h ago

Agree about reducing she sound volume of her spam.

Relentless barrage should straight up not proc against a tank. It's trivial to hit a tank from a mile away, creating infinite uptime against a tank who cannot do anything about it.

Revert the primary fire rate buff to it's original speed.

I'd lean more into her mobility and way less into her burst damage. For example, restore the two tap kill on a squishy, but do not have any instant Take Aim reset on dash.

Instead, double the dash hover duration (with increased horizontal mobility while hovering) and always have the cooldown on Take Aim, so she can stay in the air longer and still shoot multiple Take Aim shots from the air, but she cannot spam Take Aim from the air and more.

This gives her better mobility and lethality, but also requires more skill and increases her vulnerability in the air, while simultaneously reducing the spam. I'd be okay with a 25 HP buff to compensate.

2

u/SmokingPuffin Mauga Mentality — 14h ago

restore the two tap kill on a squishy, but do not have any instant Take Aim reset on dash.

Instead, double the dash hover duration (with increased horizontal mobility while hovering) and always have the cooldown on Take Aim, so she can stay in the air longer and still shoot multiple Take Aim shots from the air, but she cannot spam Take Aim from the air and more.

This Freja would be very weak at any level above plat. Supports would have 5-7 business days to heal Freja's target.

2

u/Positive_Ingenuity49 17h ago

As someone who only really plays her, I agree with the changes. I also feel like updrift could go back to 12 seconds too. Make her less airborne. I think the double updrift perks is stupid and needs to be changed. I dont think giving any mobility 2 stacks is healthy for the game. Just more mobility creep in a game that is already saturated in it. 

3

u/Maleficent_Okra_4376 15h ago

I do think her double updraft perk should be removed since it also pretty significantly adds to the amount of uptime she has

1

u/Sauce_Master_64 12h ago

That's fair. Wouldn't mind new perks in general for her. Most of them are pretty simple and boring.

1

u/Wh33lHunter 14h ago

I feel Freja is a broken by concept hero like Roadhog or Widowmaker, a flying sniper should never be viable. Short of a rework, she belongs in the sub 45% win rate zone as far as I’m concerned.

1

u/SmokingPuffin Mauga Mentality — 14h ago

I think you've nibbled around the edges here. 8% ult charge is one extra take aim bolt. You're asking Freja to reload rarely instead of never. Sound changes here aren't like the cat case, where there's powerful tactical benefit to hearing cat better.

I don't think much of anything changes for Freja players or for Freja opponents.

1

u/sergantsnipes05 None — 13h ago

She is just so annoying to play against. Even when she is bad. The long range spam plus the dot and small hit box are incredibly frustrating.

1

u/Facetank_ 11h ago

I wish they'd redistribute her Take Aim damage from the explosion to the bolt, and maybe lower it slightly so that headshots mattered more. 

1

u/ZealousidealHat2362 6h ago

Im a masters zen one trick and good freyas can position so far away near cover and they make it so you have to get closer to actually hit her. The problem with that is I got no mobility so either I have to let my teammates deal with her (never happens lol) or abandon my cover/sightline where she can shoot me. So the only option is to time it really good to where her AND the eneimes agression are on someone else that leaves pressure off the rotation I want to take which happens a lot but sometimes it takes competent teammates/tank to free up that space. My solution would to just make her fat as hell like phara and dont change her damage numbers so I can actually pressure her from afar with projectiles.

1

u/bullxbull 6h ago

How does this make her more interactive? You did nothing to her mobility or the range she engages at. I can't see how this will make her any less toxic. From my perspective you gave her some small nerfs and some small buffs, but balance was never the issue.

1

u/slimemonster0 5h ago

Also my favorite hero since her release. I’ve enjoyed her feeling relevant this season, but def hear the complaints about how annoying she is.

Is it wild to suggest that take aim be unlinked from dash, and then sorta soft-rework her around this change to compensate? My favorite part of Freja by far is her mobility, and I feel like the biggest issue with her balance is that you can’t buff her mobility without buffing her damage. Removing the take aim reload on dash is obviously a massive nerf but perhaps would allow the devs to change her in other ways that make up for it that are less frustrating to go against?

1

u/Raptor_2125 2h ago

And now we're back to weekly "Rework and or Nerf Freja" posts after a season and a half of Freja being strong after months of "Buff or Rework Freja" posts

-1

u/MirceaHM 20h ago

My take is 250 HP but less lethal.

9

u/Cookiedough3549 20h ago

Her lack of lethality and longer ttk is what made her garbage with ~43% winrates for 9 months in the first place.

She already needs to land 3 shots to kill 250hp heroes, which is in line with other dps. 

Making her less lethal would just make her useless again.

3

u/BurnedInTheBarn 16h ago

I don't know about that, she was not lethal but also very squishy. Unfortunately, a big change like this ought to be on the experimental mode (RIP). But 100-110 damage bolts with 250 hp, maybe some shield HP or .5 lower dash cooldown COULD create a very interesting hero.

0

u/GT162 10h ago

Her second updraft needs to go, this game has had too much vertical mobility creep

-4

u/drassort 19h ago

Force her to be on the ground more often

7

u/migo2028 18h ago

Then that wouldn’t be Freja

-3

u/drassort 17h ago

She isn't supposed to be a perma flying hero

3

u/migo2028 17h ago

And if you make her sit on the ground more then you have to buff her in some way to help her by giving her more hp or lethality

0

u/aPiCase Stalk3r — 15h ago

One idea for Bola that I like is allowing her to use abilities during the cast time to dodge sleep and such.

-1

u/AlphaInsaiyan smurf — 17h ago

Dude what you just buffed her

3

u/Sauce_Master_64 17h ago

Small compensation buffs for big hits to her overall damage pressure and ult charge rate. Seems more than fair when my intent is to keep her balanced Winrate while getting rid of some of the annoyance.

-2

u/nichecopywriter 17h ago

Heavy bleed damage, makes her less useful against tanks and more useful for picking off isolated targets like a bounty hunter should be good at

6

u/Sauce_Master_64 17h ago

Decreasing her TTK is what made her garbage tier in the first place. It's in line with other high lethality DPS and she should be rewarded for hitting difficult projectile shots with her own movement throwing her off.
The content creator patch gave her bleed damage and she was so unbelievably bad it was hilarious.

1

u/nichecopywriter 17h ago edited 17h ago

Oh don’t get me wrong, I love Freja and don’t want her to be weak. The problem with the creator patch was that it was executed in bad faith, it was laughably too weak to the point where even just reading that patch note was enough to know it wouldn’t work.

I’m talking a heavy bleed that persists over like 5 seconds, enough that even landing just one on a weakened target could kill a squishy if they don’t get help. This also keeps her subrole passive active the whole time which could be a unique strength.

It also gives her primary fire more of an identity since it’s currently just spam damage. Make it have zero spread and it gives her gun two modes of viable damage instead of 1 and a half.