r/DeFlock • u/Extreme-Airport7183 • 9h ago
Anti-ALPR argument
I’ve gotten into a Facebook argument with cousin, a police officer. He posted an article about how a missing 5 year old was found due to ALPR cameras and wrote that we are all overreacting and that these cameras fight crime and the police are not interested in Joe Schmoe’s data. After all the “yes!” comments I replied about how the data has been used to stalk people. Of course he replied with the emotionally manipulative argument, “sure, but all technology has been misused, especially when it’s new, and if it was (my) child, what would (I) say then?”
I know Flock-type cameras are not as effective at fighting crime as they are advertised but most of what I find is pro-camera propaganda.
Even the argument that a private company is tracking our locations without our consent would be a moot argument to police.
I also know I’ll get a lot of “just ignore” or worse, since it’s obvious that since he’s in law enforcement he won’t listen. However, he’s a good human (you’ll just have to take my word for it) and I would like to offer some respectful counterpoints without bowing out or getting angry.
Anyone have any suggestions that aren’t too unkind?
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u/hikeonpast 6h ago
If everyone were required to wear ankle monitors, crime would undoubtedly go down. It’s not necessarily a question of whether crimes might be solved, but more a question of how many liberties are we as a society willing to give up?
Alternately, I leave you with this quote:
Utimately, arguing that you don't care about the right to privacy because you have nothing to hide is no different than saying you don't care about free speech because you have nothing to say.
- Edward Snowden
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u/sandy_mcfiddish 9h ago
If these are so great, then shouldn’t we need to hire fewer police officers? AI coming for their jobs
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u/Extreme-Airport7183 8h ago
Someone else disagreed and he again went with “what if it was your kid?” Such a dumb argument because of course no one is going to say they’d be okay with their kid being kidnapped and not found. But it’s such a rare case. They’re more likely to be misused than to solve a crime, not to mention the problematic question of private companies owning the data. Yes, “But what if it was your kid?” Ugh.
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u/Late_Cardiologist_46 7h ago
Is it more likely that your kid will be kidnapped and found with ai cameras? Or more likely that they will be stalked with ai cameras?
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u/putamadre3275 6h ago
He’s a cop. Of course he wants this stuff. I’m sure there’s an ex gf out there he used to rough up in the past and he’s got to make sure he knows where she is at all times.
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u/Cool_Statement_9269 2h ago
The “finding little Timmy” argument is easily blown up. If it is so damn easy to be a hero like that then great, they should have plenty of time to find and arrest perps of hit-and-runs, car break-ins, mugging, and everything else shitty that happens on the street. Are they doing that? At least where I live, and we are Flocked out the ass here, no. You call up and report one of those things and they’ll just laugh at you.
They are too busy stoolpigeoning for the FBI and stalking women they saw in the Chili’s the other night.
And while I hate that the cops can know where I am, I am more frightened by the fact that anyone with the right amount of cash (or apparently the bare minimum of hacking skill) can, too.
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u/Pax_Eterna_4991 6h ago
Is his single anecdote even true?
Even if it is there are hundreds of cases of misuse.
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u/Mstr_Splinter 5h ago
Its all fun and games until some bureaucrat or actvist group (on either side of the aisle) changes the definition of "Whats wrong".
UK currently throws people in literal prison for posting or liking content that goes against the enforced narrative. Is that really the dystopia he wants to see come into existence?
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u/itssadbutdrew 8h ago
your cop cousin doesn't deserve his job if an AI camera can do the work he is too lazy to do.
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u/Ok_Pen3275 9h ago
Ask him if he would be ok with flock if the general public had the same level of access as he has. See if he is ok with people watching his location and activity without needing a warrant or valid reason.
I would also remind him that he feels safe / comfortable with flock beacuse he’s partially in control of its use. The general public doesn’t have that luxury and feels zero control or trust for the system because it’s opaque to them.
Ask him what groups he would feel uncomfortable having access to flock, and then remind him how incredibly insecure they are. (Ie ben Jordan’s video and the several active CVEs filed for them)
Talk about how a system like this can’t be valued only by its benefits but needs to be equally weighted against its drawbacks. Asking if the Ends justify the means kinda thing. Currently there is no Research I am aware of that proves an investment in a flock style system of mass surveillance is more effective than investing that same effort into other systems. (Not written by or funded by said companies of mass surveillance)