r/ForzaHorizon Subaru 16h ago

Forza Horizon 6 Spec racing: what am i missing?

Race starts, i hold the accelerator, i up shift when i hit the red line, i don't know what else i could be doing to go faster in a straight line in a car I've never used, yet everyone and their mom is ghosting straight through me. Hella embarrassing when I'm first in the grid then last 20 seconds later.

74 Upvotes

67 comments sorted by

88

u/Superb_Bear_3793 15h ago

If you’re using manual shifting, rule of thumb is to shift just before you hit the rev limiter, not at redline. Revving past redline on most motors produces more power (though be sure to double check your power curves on any cars you drive often).

Some players also use manual with clutch, which lets you shift faster than auto or manual, depending on how quick you are with using the clutch button.

12

u/Painbow_High_And_Bi Subaru 15h ago

Forgive my ignorance, i must not understand what "power" means here. More power is bad?

40

u/Kraven_Lupei 15h ago

Power is good. If you're shifting at redline that's early.

Many cars rev past the redline up another, say, 500 rpm and build power until it starts bouncing off the limiter.

But the power curve depends on the car. Some have limiters right near redline, some way past. Some build power past redline, some have a slight drop off.

26

u/Superb_Bear_3793 15h ago edited 15h ago

There’s even a handful of cars that begin dropping off in power before redline. Especially positive displacement supercharged* motors that build more power down low than up high. I recall in early FH games it used to be meta to build PDSC cars with low power bands and then short shift constantly, as the PI system would only take into account shifting at redline.

5

u/Kraven_Lupei 15h ago edited 15h ago

Not sure what PDSC stands for offhand, so I may be repeating what you just said here, but yeah I recall FH5 there was a good handful of Subaru's I think that were specifically labelled "Shift at 5400" or something low like that as the tune-name because the powerband was best, even if it was like 2k before redline.

E: Thanks for the informative responses fellas.

14

u/Superb_Bear_3793 15h ago

Positive displacement supercharger, as opposed to centrifugal supercharger.

A centrifugal supercharger works a lot like a turbo with no lag: the higher the RPM, the more the boost pressure increases per additional RPM increase. That’s because they have a turbine that compresses more air the faster they spin.

Positive displacement superchargers are more like a water pump in a garden hose. They use a Roots or a twin screw type blower that means the amount of air they add to the engine per revolution is constant. They’re a lot like straight up adding more displacement to an engine, and often times PD supercharger sizes are measured in displacement. (For example the Challenger Demon gets a 2.7L supercharger and the Demon 170 a 3.0L supercharger).

TLDR

Centrifugal supercharger = turbo with no lag

Positive displacement supercharger = bigger engine displacement

4

u/Random61504 Lamborghini Subaru Viper 15h ago

Positive Displacement Supercharger.

As for the Sabaru, that was the 2.0L Flat 4 racing engine that had 330HP stock. Came from the VT15R rally car in FH4 but is noy in FH5 or FH6. The engine makes like 480ft-lb of torque, and the HP and torque curves are really low. Go swap that motor into a WRX, do nothing else, and go hit a drag strip. Do a run shifting at around 5400, then a second run at redline. Even better if you can being a friend, I did this with my brother on FH5. Swapping the camshaft to a race one makes this irrelevant, as you gain a lot of HP and lose a lot of torque, and now it is better to shift at redline. I have done a lot of builds with this engine, if that isn't clear lol...

3

u/RunninOnMT 15h ago

To add, you want to shift a bit after the power peak, you’re looking to spend as much time right around that peak as possible, so shifting right at peak power puts you a bit low in the rev range for the next gear, relative to shifting just afterwards.

11

u/Sameloff Triumph 15h ago

More power is good. He means shift after the redline but before the rev limiter

5

u/Painbow_High_And_Bi Subaru 15h ago

Got it now, thanks!

3

u/Kronomancer1192 15h ago

Think of it this way. At higher rpm the car has better acceleration. It can make better use of engine power.

If shifting up at the red line puts you at 5000rpm in the next gear, shifting past the red line might put you at 6000rpm when you upshift. Do that every gear and it creates a noticeable advantage against people not.

3

u/DJScaryTerry 8h ago

It was confusingly written.

Shift BETWEEN redline and the rev limiter. Most engines in this game make more power the higher the revs go. You basically want to shift a split second before bouncing off the rev limiter. Sometimes that is redline but most of the time it's well past.

1

u/molomo 8h ago

In physics terms Power = Work / Time. More power means more ability to do work quickly to make you go faster. The power band curves are different for different engines. Generally higher RPM = more power until you hit rev limit

3

u/RubyKarmaScoots 5h ago edited 4h ago

Hmm. I've tuned dozens of cars meticulously in this game and haven't come across a single one that makes peak power or tq after redline. I "dyno" every single build. 4/5 gear, rolling @ super low rpm, and then WOT to redline. I could share my exact data if anyone was curious but yeah

20

u/zerosuneuphoria 15h ago

Avoid sliding at all costs on tarmac, get grip back as soon as possible. Sliding costs so much time and lots of people don't realise it... that includes spinning off the line in powerful cars

4

u/SexyGandalph 15h ago

Is especially noticeable when racing against a rival ghost, as soon as you loose traction, they’ll pull away quickly and you’re down .5 seconds lol

2

u/Painbow_High_And_Bi Subaru 15h ago

Omg i hate slidy cars in spec. That damn Pagani is the worst, barely touch the stick and I'm off course, that's another thing i don't get how other players are getting along with.

5

u/Existing_Macaroon_99 12h ago

Throttle control. It takes time to get use to it.

1

u/SidewaysFancyPrance 8h ago

Honestly, I realized how bad I was at FH6 when I started spec racing. I used to have a blast with tires spinning around turns but I looked like a complete moron in MP. It's all about that throttle control in the turns.

2

u/SAVIOR_OMEGA Controller player 6h ago

I throttle with my trigger and for good reason. Good throttle control is vital for getting the most power down

15

u/dakness69 15h ago edited 15h ago

Most cars make more power above the redline than they do at lower RPM, so you want to shift right before the car hits the rev limiter. Sometimes it's 1.5-2k RPM past the redline.

You do not need manual w/ clutch unless you know you are playing like a grid full of Top 1% drivers. Basically, one mistake in a single corner will make a bigger difference across the course of the race (true of shifting at redline, too).

Also, obviously, don't spin your wheels off the start line.

7

u/cgarrett06 15h ago

You don’t need manual with clutch if you’re cornering perfectly but it makes a huge difference for lower class spec racing, if you rebind clutch to A there’s literally no reason to not use it.

14

u/acreddited 15h ago

Double check your controller is actually maxing at 100 % throttle. I had a broken trigger which was machine at around 67%. It led to some disappointing races before I figured out the problem.

6

u/Painbow_High_And_Bi Subaru 15h ago

Is there a way to check this in-game or do I need special software to test it?

6

u/ynnahS 15h ago

If you’re playing on PC, press T to bring up the telemetry.

I’m not sure how to bring it up on console.

5

u/Painbow_High_And_Bi Subaru 15h ago

Thanks, I'll check that out!

2

u/DonNonno 14h ago

By chance was it the ROG Raikiri 2? Mine suffered the same failure 2 weeks after purchase. So obvious me wife asked "Why are people passing you?"

1

u/Beneficial-Ranger238 15h ago

I had this issue with one controller as well. Oddly it was only in 1 game, ams2, but I had maybe 80% throttle and wondered why my top speed was garbage.

9

u/burner94_ 15h ago
  • use manual with clutch and powershift through the gears (i.e. never release the throttle while clutching/shifting/declutching), it's always been the fastest way to shift in Forza games ever since Motorsport 3. In FH6 and FM2023 this is not necessary for cars with race transmissions.

  • pull up telemetry and see if the car you're driving starts to drop power before redline. If yes, shift earlier.

6

u/ForgInSpace 14h ago edited 14h ago

Make sure you have launch control turned on in the difficulty settings. There doesn’t seem to be a downside to using it and it maximizes traction at race start.

Manual with clutch makes a noticeable difference too, but I drive with a wheel and pedals and the constant heel-toe shifting gets tiring after a while. Even just using manual shifting and launch control I find myself passing a lot of the field during the initial ghosted phase.

2

u/FakeSteveSF Acura Integra B Class 13h ago

On cars with no launch wheelspin, Launch Control is actually a bit slower. It's pretty easy to test on grippy AWD cars in lower classes like B

2

u/Fap4Dayz 9h ago

If the car doesn't have wheelspin at launch, the LC doesn't actually do anything at the race start.

2

u/FakeSteveSF Acura Integra B Class 9h ago

Having it turned on has some impact whether it activates or not. Try it yourself with an AWD B class car that has no launch wheelspin, you'll see a minor accel advantage for the car with LC turned off

1

u/Fap4Dayz 5h ago

So you're telling me that even if the LC icon isn't lit up, it's still actually doing it?

1

u/FakeSteveSF Acura Integra B Class 1h ago

it's nebulous to me what it's actually doing if the LC icon doesn't light up tbh, but it's definitely having some minor impact. I discovered this while trying to beat my own rivals time in an AWD grip build which has zero launch wheelspin, with launch control disabled there was a minor but clear difference. I did enough testing to rule out "i shifted better that time"

5

u/CleverNickName-69 Xbox Series X 14h ago

One thing I haven't seen mentioned yet: you're using Launch Control right? You just say you "hold the accelerator" so I'm not sure if you're using LC. If you use it, the car holds RPM at the point just below wheelspin.

0

u/gring0z 6h ago

Launch control is activated by default at the start of any race, regardless of your settings

1

u/ForgInSpace 3h ago

I don’t think this is accurate, and it’s easy enough to test. When launch control is turned on in difficulty settings it activates automatically at race start (without holding handbrake). Pick a high-powered car and start a race, and it should launch without wheel spin. Then immediately restart the event and turn off LC. That same car will bounce off the rev limiter at race start until you ease off the throttle.

2

u/p392 15h ago

Are you using traction control? If you are, I can almost gauruntee that it’s slowing you up when taking off at a race start.

1

u/Painbow_High_And_Bi Subaru 15h ago

No I'm not, i checked earlier lol

2

u/TheBattleDad678 15h ago

Probably a difficulty settings issue on your end. What are all your assists set to?

2

u/YamahaFourFifty 11h ago

This seems to happen to me every racer every online match. Really don’t get how every single online racer in every game , even arcades - are perfect racers

2

u/WokeWook69420 6h ago

Manual w/ Clutch is much faster than manual, especially without race transmission/race clutch for increasing shift time.

1

u/primaryrhyme 14h ago

Launch control on
Traction and stability control off
Manual w/ clutch, but first two are more important

1

u/thegrimmda 13h ago

I tried launch I tried launch control on and traction and stability control off and manual with clutch. Every time straight to the back. Even after validating throttle use is at 100%. You aren’t the only one OP. Every single spec race for me, clearly it’s a skill issue.

1

u/Th4t0n3dud3 13h ago

Push it to the limit!

2

u/jkrplk 2h ago

Walk around the razor's edge

1

u/HipsterNgariman 12h ago

I'm using manual without clutch, TC and ABS, hold the gas on starts, and shift at redline (about half the red bar on the dial). My starts are fine ! Haven't had the need to disable TC or use a clutch button so far

1

u/No_Kaleidoscope179 39m ago

Tc and ABS helps a lot in higher class races especially at the start and corners, but it slows you in lower classes, that the thing Forza lobbies have no proper balance, people who use assists are in the same lobbies as ones who don’t. That’s why Op see’s people just fly past him at the start.

1

u/HolidayBall7852 11h ago

Throttle isn’t an on and off switch. You’re sliding somewhere leaving smoke instead of power.

1

u/grumbled0r 3h ago

Are you using an 8bitdo Ultimate as a controller by chance? The default controller settings in game have trigger deadzones that aren't quite right and it effects your acceleration.

I had the exact same issue and it went away when I upgraded to a Gamesir G7. I think it has to do with the hall effect triggers. You might be able to play with your deadzone settings on acceleration, but I couldn't tell you whar those settings are.

Also, I noticed that AC: Black Flag also didn't play nice with the 8bitdo Ultimate and the shoulder triggers just flat out wouldn't work on that game, but they were fine after I upgraded. It might become a more common thing that the old 8bitdo Ultimates aren't usable on modern games, so it might be worth upgrading.

1

u/No_Kaleidoscope179 35m ago

Happens to me too, I don’t spin my wheels, shift at optimum rpms and do everything right but still people just fly past, especially in classes above A class, what I’ve found out is in higher classes stuff like Tc and Sc help a lot, most corner where I’ve to break the ones with assists just pull away, Forza needs to make separate lobbies for ones who use assists like TC, Sc etc and ones who don’t.

1

u/idkwatyouwantfromme 15h ago

Drafting helps

2

u/Random61504 Lamborghini Subaru Viper 15h ago

Not sure why you got downvoted, unless people are specifically thinking about the start. Drafting does not work when ghosted, but when not ghosted, it does. It is also stronger when the downforce produced by the lead car is increased. I tested it with the Lotus Exige WTAC, a massive downforce car. Completely stock, drafting increased the top speed by 17MPH, and I was getting over 1.5 seconds faster a lap at the Legend Island track. Dirty air is also applied though, and if you are too close behind a high downforce car, it might be better to run off the racing line, staying out of his wake. It will be slower than the racing line in clean air, but faster than being in his dirty air. In extreme cases, I have followed within 5 car lengths into a corner that is flat out in clean air but I needed to brake. Not even lift, but a good amount of braking. As with drafting, more downforce equals more dirty air. Some slow cars, it can be barely noticeable, but it is there. Something like a regular A class build might get 5-10MPH in the draft, and a decent bit of dirty air.

2

u/idkwatyouwantfromme 13h ago

Yeah the dude asked for help regarding spec racing. I treat it like nascar, level playing field, drafting is a big factor. People are just upset lately, I couldn’t care less for downvotes I know I’m right 🤷🏼‍♂️

1

u/Random61504 Lamborghini Subaru Viper 10h ago

I do the same thing. You have to find other ways to win since the cars are the same. The draft is great since so many people don't know it exists in Forza. I've had many times where I use it down a long straight, slingshot past the guy, and stay off the racing line until approaching the corner. I keep my momentum and he doesn't even follow in my draft. I swing back onto the racing line right before the turn, now he is in my dirty air and can't corner. That simple, and now I have a 3+ second lead.

1

u/DualSpiresCinnamon 15h ago

Manual with clutch

1

u/Majestic_Puppo 15h ago

Manual w clutch is the secret

-4

u/Peshmerga_Sistani 15h ago

Take your foot off the brake.

-3

u/Status_Fun7763 15h ago

Im come in last almost every time. Its like everyone can just walk away And it shouldn't matter if you're using manual or automatic. Manuals aren't automatically faster.

5

u/OkDragonfruit1929 15h ago

Manual transmission is not "Automatically" faster, but they are definitely faster if the person driving knows what they are doing.

3

u/primaryrhyme 14h ago

Weird quirk with forza games but in a non race transmission, manual with clutch shifts faster than automatic or regular manual. Also yes automatic sometimes shifts unoptimally.

1

u/Lephturn 7h ago

It’s not a weird quirk, it’s the actual transmission in the car. If the spec car happens to have a dual clutch sequential gearbox then manual and manual with clutch will shift the same. If the car comes with a regular manual transmission then shifting it with just manual is much slower. It’s not an issue if you can build/upgrade your car because you can always put a race transmission in it and you can use manual and get the same performance.

2

u/primaryrhyme 6h ago

Yeah I mean it’s weird that M/C shifts so much faster (except for race transmission), in my manual car irl I’m not shifting in .2 seconds like in the game lol.

There isn’t a logical reason it’s so much faster than the others, other than rewarding players for using it.

1

u/Lephturn 6h ago

It’s way faster than trying to shift a manual without using the clutch.

It’s faster than a slushbox.

1

u/DanHatesCats Steering wheel player 14h ago

Manuals allow you to hit higher RPM before shifting, so you get more power out of a gear and then you also start the next gear at a higher RPM. Automatics upshift too early, downshift too late, or skip gears entirely, so you don't make use of the entire power band. The optimal shift is just before your RPM limiter bounces - an automatic won't hit that limit under normal circumstances.

Manuals aren't automatically faster, but the same person using automatic or manual should be faster in manual if they're somewhat competent.

-1

u/LuciusFormadeus 15h ago

Heel-and-toe braking on corner entry, with Manual + Clutch, is faster.