r/HideTanning • u/MockTheLiving • 8d ago
Help Needed 🧐 Sumac tanning
Hello! I will be tanning some small test hides (most likely squirrel, it will be fur on) with staghorn sumac soon, i have gathered 7.5 kg (around 17 pounds) of fresh leaves so far and i'm drying them right now. I plan on gathering more before the summer ends. I have a few questions though:
I have read that sumac should not be boiled in order to get the solution. Is this true? What should i do instead?
When gathering more leaves, is there a point in getting the younger ones as well? Or should i just focus on the big mature leaves
What are some common mistakes made when sumac tanning?
Will the sumac dye white fur?
What should be the water to leaf ratio more or less?
How can i tell if my solution is strong enough?
Do you know any online resources where i can get more info? I have not found a lot to be honest
Explain like i'm five lol, i've only done egg tans before 😅
Thank you in advance!
1
u/Comfortable-Hat3506 8d ago
I had ny best luck with sumac using hot water like 115. As for dying the fur, in my experience not really unless you pre treat the fur to take a dye. Also if you have a screen you can toss the leaves on and leave them out in the sun, you'll save yourself a lot of effort as opposed tk hanging all these bunches of leaves.
You can Google peak tannin levels sumac to figure out what types of leaves you should be harvesting.
1
u/MockTheLiving 7d ago
I see! Just to make sure, do you just start with that temperature and then leave it to cool off, or do you maintain 115 the entire time? I could warm it up on the stove each time the temperature drops, but i'm not sure if that's necessary. How long should i let the solution sit before using it?
Thanks for the drying tip btw, hanging those up was a pain and i'd rather not repeat the experience
1
u/Comfortable-Hat3506 7d ago
I let the water hit at 115. if you have a gallon of water it is going to hold its heat for a reasonable amount of time. Once it was about body tempt I threw the hides in then let it sit, eventually it cools down but you aren't going to keep the temp up for the whole soak.
1
u/TannedBrain 7d ago
I actually wouldn't dry them in the sun - in most dead plants, direct sunshine will cause the tannin to become weaker.
1
u/Comfortable-Hat3506 7d ago
Put them on a screen and leave them somewhere warm then. I didn't have a problem with the 8hrs they were in the sun. I also used them pretty quickly.
1
u/AaronGWebster 7d ago
I haven’t tanned with sumac much, but when I did it turned out ok. I heard that sumac tannin baths might be prone to ‘spoiling’ and to not leave them sitting too long so I added a bit of salt and soap and changed the solution completely every week or so. I’m not sure if this was nececary.
To test tannin strength, there are two methods I use- barkometer and taste. To do the taste test, first make a cup of tea using 1 cup of water and 10 tea bags. Taste it- just a drop. This awful taste/ feeling is astringency and you want your strongest tanning baths to taste about like that ( I taste only before adding hides!).
A barkometer is a type of hygrometer that measures the density of tanning liquid. Use this tool before adding salt or anything to a tannin bath and you’ll get a number ( typically 1-20) that tells you how much tannin you have. The strongest tanning baths I use are 20 ( aka BK20).
I have a couple barktanning vids that demonstrate the barkometer on my YouTube channel, laughing sturgeon.
Barkometer available at braintan dot com.
Tons of online resources on braintan dot com
Other tanning vids I like:
Deer braintan https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLzYCg_OgmYMjvwRoiyrztBui0RmUvQTGo&si=cMzO_nnGThHHt2DP
https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLaclOaNDsVTfkD5KjJhxdPEtWvu3hj_11&si=6mEQnGuv9DrG_cki fish skin
https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PL60FnyEY-eJBsE5mbHhW2gQMILnndQN9o&si=BfUwIQ0j-O9ldMd9 sheep skins
https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PL60FnyEY-eJCtASqF_v4Y6N08-8Waj9Qj&si=jupuZYYJTqDJLdNJ barktan deer
Buckskin revolution braintan and barktan https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLdXjVzBXCx92dEWVHUq4EXwAOio1Dttzv&si=28MbDSq50Eu5SjS7
Very basic Fish oil tan https://youtu.be/TRU9DTzccfI?si=7KDJHGyF7mYBxdIp
My fish tanning process https://youtu.be/lQIXpM3wYPU?si=EwrFe7EzOXQv72FK
Rabbit barktan
1
u/Possible_Wait_9755 7d ago
From what I understand you want to gather the leaves when they’re red. As that’s when the tannins are highest.
Hot water is what you want.
You need to chop the leaves up. I believe Matt Richards uses a blender.
If you’re doing fur on hides I’d use some sort of bag to contain the chopped up leaves or you will be forever combing them out of the fur.
1
u/Possible_Wait_9755 7d ago
Also it ferments quickly, so I’d have multiple batches ready to go in water when it starts to ferment.
It can actually untan the hide if allowed to ferment.
2-6 days is what Matt says before it ferments.
1
u/cagorpy 6d ago
I've read studies that say the peak tannin in sumac leaves is between June and July but there's tannin in the leaves outside that time range. Once they are dry, crush them to a powder. You can soak in hot water, never boil. The gallotannic acid in the leaves are prone to ferment into gallic acid which has the effect of undoing the tanning that was previously done, so you need to be ready to pull the hide out at around 5 days. I've read an article from an 1800s tanning journal saying that the fermentation could be delayed by adding a very small amount of pure phenol (I've never tried that).The gallotannic acid molecule in sumac is particularly large compared to a lot of other tannins, which means it takes longer for the tanning to penitrate the hide. Because sumac tannin is slower and it also ferments you can only use it to tan thinner lighter hides, so don't try it on a cow hide.
1
u/Possible_Wait_9755 6d ago
I’m experimenting tanning some beaver tails with sumac. The solution started to ferment in 4 days. Mixed up another batch to put them in. But I’m pretty sure I do t have nearly enough sumac.
So after this batch starts to ferment I’m going to switch to tara pod extract.
1
u/Possible_Wait_9755 6d ago
I’m using some sumac I got from Tradiyional Tanners on some beaver tails.
The first batch I made started to ferment after 4 days.
Made up a new batch, but I know I do t have enough sumac to finish them.
2
u/aurora_sorrel_joy 7d ago
I'm glad you're asking all these questions! I haven't tried sumac yet, but there's lots of it around and it is a lot easier to collect than bark. I am def planning to try it for some of my furs. I didn't even know about drying it first, so that's helpful.