September 11 Attacks

I remember watching October conference after the September 11, 2001 attacks on the World Trade Center. Emotions were stirred all around the globe. The US had just gone to war in Afghanistan. The words of my roommate from the morning of the attacks were still echoing in my ears: "Is this the end of the world?"

Like many members, I kept asking myself, "what does this MEAN?" and I hoped to get a response in General Conference - a firm statement that would match the impact of the event and give prophetic guidance on what we should do next and what was going to happen next.

I think part of me was hoping for some kind of statement about how things were going to get worse and the saints needed to do something amazing. Just 6 months earlier, President Hinkley had given us quite the thrill with the announcement of the Perpetual Education Fund, and it felt important, like the church was really changing the world. So surely there would be an even bigger announcement after September 11, right? We're going to grab land in Missouri and begin to migrate to Zion! Get back to emergency preparedness like never before! Prepare for the shattering of nations!

Instead, President Hinkley acknowledged that we live in the end times, and that prophets had foreseen calamities of our day, even quoting Joel and suggesting he saw an echo of Joel's pillars of smoke in the burning towers - but then he threw water on it by saying things like "I don't know what's going to happen," and "let us be friendly and helpful, protective and supportive." He brought it down and talked about the individual need for repentance, service, and missionary work. Ordinary religious duties on the small scale.

The same things he would have said if September 11 had never happened.

I was a little... disappointed.

I didn't realize it at the time but my need for meaning and importance was a weakness that could have been exploited by those with an agenda. "I'll tell you what this means," they whisper. Then they make the event even BIGGER emotionally. "You are right to be worried. You are right to be afraid. Things are only going to get worse," they say. This is a tool called "anxiety amplification." It is used by conspiracy theorists to amplify a person's psychological need for understanding and control. They amp up the anxiety, then provide their solution. Psychologically this attaches you to the person or movement because they're the only ones making you feel any sense of control, even as they add to your fear and anxiety.

At the same time President Hinkley was writing his conference talk, LDS Uber-Prepper Joel Skousen shouted to his followers about a hidden agenda in government, a dark side in government, controlled terrorist networks, constitutional rights in peril, globalist intervention, stock trading secrets, and other historical conspiracies. He said, in essence, "not only is this important, but it's all connected to these other super important things, and it's all tied back to what I've been saying forever! Buy my book!" He claimed that September 11 was just the beginning.

Meanwhile, FLDS leader Warren Jeffs preached that 9/11 was God's answer to his prayers for destruction of the wicked. Inflating his own importance and primacy to match the event. One follower, Carolyn Jessop describes the narrative as "The destruction of the towers was just the beginning."

This pattern has continued over the years. Here are some more examples:

COVID response

On April 4, 2020, two people believed to be latter-day prophets by different groups spoke on the pandemic, just days after the whole world shut down, and the news was full of reports of dead bodies stacked like cordwood. One prophet brought it back to our relationship to Jesus, while the other connected it to every other anxiety-inducing topic he could think of.

Russia invasion of Ukraine, 2022

A lot of members felt President Nelson's response to the Ukraine invasion was disappointing. Some wanted a one-sided condemnation. Some wanted to hear him prophetically justify one side. And some wanted him to stand up and announce that Russia is Gog, Ukraine fulfills some obscure prophecy, the third seal is opening, the bear has touched the lion, and now we finally know where we are on the apocalyptic calendar.

Instead he, once again, refocused us on our individual need to be close to Christ and bring that peace to the whole world. Shrinking the importance of the moment from global to personal.

His gospel is the only answer when many in the world are stunned with fear. This underscores the urgent need for us to follow the Lord’s instruction to His disciples to “go … into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature.” We have the sacred responsibility to share the power and peace of Jesus Christ with all who will listen and who will let God prevail in their lives.

Every person who has made covenants with God has promised to care about others and serve those in need. We can demonstrate faith in God and always be ready to respond to those who ask about “the hope that is in [us].”

Meanwhile the fringe groups raved about how this is actually connected to gadiantons, the IMF, NATO, God declaring war on certain political parties, etc. The same pattern: attach the event to everything else that seems beyond your control, and make it even bigger.

October 7 2023 Attacks in Israel

A few days after the October 7 attacks, the church and Mr. Sniffer both put out statements.

Prophet as Psychologist

Recent studies on conspiracy thinking show that anxiety is sorta like a gateway drug into a self-reinforcing circle of belief in conspiracies. Basically the anxiety drives a person to look for a sense of control. The theories provide that sense of control. However the studies show that conspiracy beliefs don't actually relieve the anxiety. One study actually showed they only amplified the levels of anxiety, leading to a greater desire to find more explanations, more theories, and reinforcing that pattern of thinking.

Essentially, these fringe groups and conspiracy theorists respond to anxiety inducing events by pointing outwards, looking for connections and antagonists to blame. But there is no peace there, just an ongoing flood of hucksters looking to turn your anxiety to their advantage.

Compare that to the pattern of the prophets. They acknowledge the anxiety. They connect ancient prophecies. then they turn us to Christ and our individual needs in relation to him. They lead us to the only methods that bring genuine peace. (yes, I checked, and even President Benson followed this pattern when he became president!)

This may not be satisfying in the moment, but it's healthy. It's actual healing.

Tickets are not required but recommended for the Open House next year. Reservations can be made at https://ticketing.churchofjesuschrist.org/eng

Just that. Anyone else feel like it’s overwhelming? I’ve been watching families send off missionaries my whole life. I even served a mission myself. But it’s so different on this end. He is trying to help, but works full time and wants to be with his friends as much as possible as they are leaving too. Also, he has no idea what to do. I don’t either really. All the stuff for the visa and everything. Coupled with the fact that we have more kids, one has had the flu for the past few days. My husband works constantly. And I have ADHD so I just feel constantly behind and unorganized.
Everything is fine I guess. It’s just a lot!

Edit to add- He is doing it. We are working together. He has put in his notice so he’ll have about 2 1/2 weeks before home MTC starts. I guess I was just saying that no one talks about the run around for visas or anything. He/we are getting it done. But we’re in the final count down of just under and month before he goes I am overwhelmed. Thanks for your kind advice.

This sub always has great mission stories from around the world, but I was thinking about how I don't hear many stories about people who served their missions in Utah. I'd love to hear about those experiences whether you were at Temple Square, American Fork, or a service missionary. What was unique and special about Utah-based missions?

I’ve been going through a very challenging time, and some of my challenges are the direct result of me following promptings, or acts of faith (such as going on a mission). The is has led me to really struggle with having hope in promised blessings of any kind (patriarchal blessings, scriptures, etc). I’m honestly just terrified to have hope that things can work out because every time I do, I end up disappointed and feeling even more hurt.

Things in my life have gotten worse and worse the last few years despite my good intentions and faithfulness. I understand we’re not owed anything for keeping the commandments or anything like that, but it’s just feeling impossible to feel like God will really deliver on what He says He will, when I feel like I’ve been living my life in a place to receive some of these blessings and just haven’t felt that to be true. It’s especially hard for me to not be able to feel any sort of joy through my challenges because I try really hard to experience that, and I just don’t know how.

I’m not trying to complain, but I feel abandoned by God and I would love any advice on how to relearn to trust in God and have hope in a better future. Even though at this point it feels a lot less painful and disappointing to just abandon hope. Any talks or resources are welcome, but I feel like I’ve read them all hahah

Personally, I can't believe how much it has resonated with me. I don't usually like listening to LDS podcasters because they feel... superficial? sensational? a little too affirming? I dunno... but his series feels different. What are your thoughts?

In the mid 1960s, a group of investors (headed by M. Russell Ballard before he became an apostle) put their money together and built the Valley Music Hall in Bountiful Utah. It's purpose was to be a premier entertainment venue north of Salt Lake City, which included musicals and high-profile artists such as Dolly Parton and The Monkees. It also hosted high school graduations, political rallies and other community events. What made this venue unique was that it originally had theatre-in-the-round setup, which means it had a stage in the direct center of the theater while the audience surrounded the stage.

Unfortunately, it started to struggle financially by the early 1970s, and a fire exacerbated these financial issues even further. In 1975, the Church bought the Valley Music Hall and converted it into the Bountiful Regional Center. It essentially became an unofficial tabernacle of sorts by hosting Stake Conferences and other regional church events throughout southern Davis County.

However, this will come to an end soon. On August 27th, the Church announced that the Center has reached the end of its useful life and that it will be torn down right after General Conference. No word as to what will happen to the property after its demolition, though some have speculated that it will either be converted into housing/mixed-use development or even a second temple in Bountiful (though that is more unlikely).

EDIT: Based on some of the comments, I think I should make it a little more clear that I am not trying to justify or minimize some of Laman and Lemuel's more serious sins, like plotting murder, beating/tying up their brothers, or other acts of violence. They committed some truly abhorrent wrongs, which are not at all relatable for most people. My point is not to say that we should view Laman and Lemuel as good people. It is merely that I think we should distinguish between the truly reprehensible wrongs that they did, and some of their more human/relatable/not-ideal-but-not-evil doubts and frustrations with genuinely difficult circumstances. I think we can condemn the former while still having compassion for the latter, and that doing so can actually help us learn more from their story.

---------------

As a thought experiment, I wrote the story of 1 Nephi (and a little 2 Nephi) from the perspective of Laman. You can read it here: (https://kastev.wixsite.com/indefenseofnuance/post/the-story-from-laman-s-perspective)
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I think that as church members, we could do a better job in how we talk about Laman and Lemuel.

Experiences may vary across wards, but I've often heard them discussed in oversimplified ways that can, in my opinion, teach problematic lessons about faith, obedience, and how we view others.

We sometimes treat these people like storybook characters, the “good” versus “bad” characters, with good triumphing over evil in the end. We contrast Laman and Lemuel’s “murmuring” or “complaining” against Nephi’s faith and obedience. But these aren’t fictional characters. We believe these were real people, and real people are complicated. There is more than one side to every story, even in the scriptures.

Laman and Lemuel never got a chance to tell their side of the story. And I suspect if they had, many of the things that may seem baffling (“how could someone who has seen an angel still doubt?”) might suddenly make a lot more sense.

That is not to say that all of their actions were justified. According to Nephi’s account, they beat their brothers, tied up Nephi, and plotted murder on multiple occasions. But you can condemn an action without giving up all empathy for the person.

I think one reason people oversimplify is a desire to keep it simple for children. We want the kids to understand that we should follow Nephi’s example, not Laman and Lemuel’s. We want them to learn to trust in God, be obedient to His commands, and follow His leaders.

But what else might children learn when we discuss real people in such black-and-white terms? What are they learning about how they should view people who have doubts, or struggle to get along with certain personalities among leaders? About how they should view themselves if they ever struggle in these ways? Or about what it looks like to “judge not”?

We don’t need to villainize anyone to teach lessons about faith, obedience, and trust in God. Praise for Nephi does not require disparaging Laman and Lemuel. If anything, framing many of their reactions as relatable strengthens the lesson. It's hard to learn from someone you see as fundamentally different from yourself. Instead of thinking, “I would never be like them,” they can think “sometimes I feel that way too,” and be inspired to greater faithfulness by Nephi’s actions.

And we can still keep it simple without lumping together all their seriously harmful behaviors with their human doubts and frustrations with genuinely difficult circumstances. We can say “then Laman beat Nephi and Sam with a stick--that’s really bad, huh?” But replace comments like “Laman and Lemuel were wicked and complained a lot, but Nephi was faithful” with something more neutral or sympathetic, while still praising Nephi. Like: “Laman and Lemuel didn't believe what their father said. It probably sounded very strange that Jerusalem was going to be destroyed! But even though it was a difficult thing to believe, Nephi decided to ask God for himself if it was true.”

Approaching it this way may add a little effort and time trying to imagine how Laman and Lemuel felt, but in my opinion, that effort is well worth it to teach lessons of empathy and separating sin from sinner. Hence my story: an attempt to imagine events from their perspective.

I left the LDS church 3 years ago. My wife is LDS and was when we met. I have been baptized into two other churches since I've left. I've drank lots of alcohol, smoked marijuana, drank coffee. That part I'm not worried about. I have had relations with many partners, including one man while exploring my sexuality (that was a one time thing that I've regretted and confessed to my wife before we were married).

Am I right to believe I'm looking at excommunication?

I am a little tempted to have my membership removed so I could get rebaptized. Idk if that process would be any easier. I know Jeffrey Holland taught that Salvation is not a cheap experience and shouldn't be too. But I am afraid

I (40's F) am going to attend a Mormon church funeral. What can I wear besides a dress or skirt and not be disrespectful?

Edit: Thanks to everyone that replied. Sounds like nice pants and a blouse, both with muted colors, will be perfect.

In some temples the aisles for men and women in the endowment room are on the sides and the rows of seats (for men and women) meet in the middle so a husband and wife can sit next to each other just slightly angled differently. Examples of this are the Chicago temple and Dallas temple. Are there any in Utah like this? Are there any other temples like this? I would guess Seoul Temple is like this due to it being built like the Dallas temple.
#temple

I am having a hard time understanding what they are for. Most often they are used for healing others, but I don’t understand why. We believe that God has a plan for everyone, and whether someone lives or dies after an injury/illness was according to Gods will. So why do we give priesthood blessings if Gods will is going to happen no matter what?? I don’t think the blessing affects what happens necessarily, because if it did Utah would have a significantly lower death rate than other states and it doesn’t. So can someone help me understand this please?

I’ve been going through the repentance process since the first week of June, and have been working to get my temple recommend renewed. Since first meeting with my ysa bishop, I moved to a new ward and I feel like I started over in a way. My best friend is getting married in a couple weeks and I had been hoping to have my recommend back by then. Not just so that I can see her sealing, but because I truly feel good about everything. My new bishop hasn’t said anything about when I might get my recommend back, and I feel odd asking him about when it might happen. I don’t take what I did lightly and I know there’s a lot of work that needs to be put in as I receive forgiveness from God but I feel ready for my recommend back. I have never had to go through the repentance process with a bishop, so I don’t know if it’s even appropriate to ask “when”. We have been meeting weekly and are going to continue to meet weekly until he says we don’t have to anymore.

I’m a girl and i’m 20, I was baptized in February of this year, and I love the gospel with all my heart. It makes me feel complete, and I have a very strong testimony. I love missionary work and the good it has done in my life, and I know that missions are necessary because they can bring others the same joy I experienced when I joined the Church.

However, lately I’ve been under a lot of pressure to go on a mission. This didn't happen right after I was baptized, but recently, whenever I talk to someone, they ask if I’m going to serve. I’ve said that I don’t feel the call to do so, but they urge me to pray more and reconsider, telling me that serving a mission is important, that those who have gone say it’s the best experience of their lives and that I should do it too.

I don’t want to serve a proselytizing mission; I feel that God has a thousand different ways for me to serve. But this pressure really makes me sad; I’ve also heard that no man will want to marry me if I haven’t served a mission, as if I wouldn't be on their level.

Bonus points for what song/piece they played

My family was getting into a discussion and wondering what instruments would we like to see in Sacrament meeting that we’ve never heard, and among the suggestions were French horn, oboe, marimba, and uilleann pipes (a nice alternative to bagpipes)… just curious what’s been out there

Our most uncommon one we’ve seen was a handbell choir, it was absolutely beautiful and I’d love to see it again

The online portal for placing a name for the Temple prayer roll isn't working on my end!

Definitely need to fix with the Ward Clerk; in the meantime would someone be as kind as to list the name Luna (no surname) on the Temple prayer roll please 🙏

I don't think the church is asking too much, in asking people to read their lessons before the new 25 minute classes on Sunday.

But what can wards do to help members, more than they have before?

​Here's the full quote from Elder Bednar:

"Every member of this church has an individual responsibility to study and learn the doctrine of Christ and then strive to apply it in their lives. We cannot expect the church as an institution to provide to us everything that we need to know. There's a price that each of us has to pay in terms of individual study."

​This quote is from the first of two videos that wards were supposed to show today in the 5th Sunday class:

https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/manual/changes-to-the-sunday-class-meeting-schedule-instruction-2026/youth-and-adult-sunday-instruction-materials?lang=eng&id=p_u0C4M#p_u0C4M

I've seen some skepticism on this forum that the new program will work. I think it will be great, but might take some time to adjust.

I am soon going through the temple and I go a temple bag, but when my parents saw it the both pointed out that is was big. I will admit it was bigger than I thought however it seems like a good bag with a specific spot for a dress, shoes, and various other pockets for the other items. The dimensions are 16" x 24" x 1". If the lockers are the same as the ones in the baptistery I think it will fit. I just don't know if it is weird to have a large bag or if it's too large and I should get a different one.

For reference this is the one I got

https://a.co/d/0dmFRxK0

Honestamente espero que o reddit traduza meu post corretamente

Sou do brasil na cidade de sao paulo. E em 3 dias inicio meu treinamento no CTM online pois vou para a colombia.

Mas honestamente nao consigo me animar muito, nao por conta da missao mas sim pelo como esta minha ala e toda a area sao paulo

Minha ala esta com uma presidencia completamente ridicula, eu apoio pois provavelmente tem um motivo de estar assim, mas nao consigo esconder meu desanimo

O bispo ja me acusou de racismo quando criança pq escutou fofoca mentirosa, nao quis escutar meu lado e colocou a berros no fundo do onibus sozinho enquanto eu chorava e levou meu amigo pra frente pq eu nao deveria estar acompanhado pra pensar nas minhas acoes (eu nao fiz nada, foi fofoca). Anos depois me deixou 2 anos sem tomar sacramento pq disse que ia me chamar quando o periodo estivesse finalizado, e nunca me chamou, eu tambem nao procurava pq nao consigo ter amizade com o bispo que me traumatizou

Ai agr todos estao amigaveis pq vou pra missao e é uma honra pra ala. (Honra? Não faço nada alem de minha obrigação e dizem honra) Nao quero festa de despedida, nem discurso de despedida pq nao sinto inspiracao nisso quando me chamam

O YSA esta sem liderança a meses, o chamado na ala é mais por obrigação de ter alguem do que inspiração, apenas os amigos do bispo e conselheiros tem chamado, e nitidamente é assim pq chamaram meu amigo e o bispo disse "vc escolhe ser conselheiro do family search ou cuidar do insta da ala?" Desde quando um chamado é o membro quem escolhe?

Eu to desanimado, pq ja falamos com a estaca e nada muda, a estaca tambem ta meio mal.

Eu falei sobre alguns problemas a cerca do meu nome pro presidente de estaca pq o nome de elder está errado, e também a escrita do nome. Creio que nada vai mudar e eu precisarei mudar no CTM

.......

Mas o maior problema é que eu nao sei quem eu devo perguntar oque preciso

Sobre a missao nem o bispo nem a estaca parece saber algo, nao me disseram nada, apenas me mandaram

A missao nao responde email, provavelmente nao foi atualizado, ou mandei errado

Nao sabem quem eu falo sobre meu nome no ctm, nem tenho amigos que consigam me falar algo

Como funciona a missao? Quanto pago? Como funciona a casa? Entre varias outras coisas

Perdao o desabafo mas eu to confuso, pq tenho 3 dias pra começar o CTM online, e tenho tantas dúvidas a cerca da missao que nem sei oque dizer

When I watched the videos the church has put out about the new schedule, it sticks out to me that most people are hung up on the schedule, and completely missing the emphasis on personal and familial responsibility to study the gospel and come to know God on our own and as families.

President Nelson told us that we are to seek in every way that we can to hear Him in our personal lives. He taught that the only way to survive spiritually is by the Spirit. The Spirit and church are there for every day, every moment, everything that the church can't do for you. God is there for you, personally. The church just facilitates that through covenants etc.

We all need to seek Him more closely and not depend on sunday school teachers, bishops, and on up to replace personal revelation and personal spiritual striving. They are just supposed to help with that, not replace or preempt it.

Our building is going through a tech refresh and we experienced part of it today. New tvs (matching) that have a Church portal and easy connections (airplay/casting). Previously none of the tv's matchec so every time you had to setup it was a different process.

I know, I know. But it was a pleasant surprise. Just saying.

@mods - maybe there could be a tech flair?

We watched the video the youth got and discussed the newish Strength For Youth book.

I thought we’d have more directed to adults but I guess we’ll just go for it.

I’m 20F and recently have come to the church and looking to convert

I know that RM are kinda what the girls want in the church but is there a problem with me not being a RM since I’m 20. Like I feel as though I wouldn’t be worthy or that a man who is a RM wouldn’t want me because I’m a convert

Is there a pattern of recently converts all together and then the RM’s all together??

EDIT: Yes sorry, I wasn’t very clear. I’m a recent female convert and know that women are pushed to look for a return missionary but I was wondering was it the same for men looking for a woman. Would she HAVE to be a return missionary for them to be interested and what happens to older converts like me who aren’t really of the mission serving age

Hi all,

My ancestors were Latter-day Saint pioneers who gathered to Utah in the mid-nineteenth century. I have enjoyed learning about them via scholarship and memories shared on FamilySearch. I wrote an overview of their experiences, which you can read here. First paragraph below:

"29 of my 32 great-great-great grandparents migrated to the Western United States as part of the Mormon Exodus; the other three were born in Utah after their parents had made the trek. 15 of them traveled from their homes in the British isles; the other 14 came from the Eastern or Midwest United States. Despite the fact that they lived in a time when most people could only travel as fast as a horse could carry them, their birthplaces and death places are separated, on average, by 3,176 miles. 25 of them died in Utah, six in other locations in the American West, and Eliza Dyer died in childbirth near Council Bluffs, Iowa, a stop on the Mormon Trail. She had no help. She and her twin babies were buried in the same coffin."

Best,
Peter