Discussion
Are you a farmer suffering financially from the policies you voted for?
You obviously have a tractor and I need someone to mow my lawn. It's about 1/4 acre. I want some landscaping too. You can put in a garden and sprinkler system for me. If you can do any drywall work and roofing, that's a bonus.
Go hang out at home depot, people are always looking for workers. There's lots of work out there for farmers if they'd stop being lazy.
When I am training a new person on my team, I tell them: "Better to ask a stupid question so you can do something correct and not appear stupid, than to do something stupid without asking, and confirm that you are, in fact, stupid."
I have a genuine question for you, that I am trying to ask with the utmost respect, because I am quite curious....
Why are you okay with this behavior? What is it about this administration that is benefiting you? If there isn't anything benefiting you, and you're just celebrating the suffering of others.....why?
I don't understand. This hurts you, too. This hurts everyone. Why wouldn't you want our food to come from a regulated system?
I'd rather try to ask and find out that they are a complete waste of time, than to write them off.
I used to be a real piece of shit. I hated everyone who looked happy. I hated everyone who seemed like they had it better than me - and boy did I let it be known.
Had it not been for strangers who befriended me, got to know me, and helped me get therapy and ask questions I never posed to myself, I wouldn't be who I am.
We shape each other, and you never know who you can be a positive influence on. I want to repay the universe for having people like that, by being someone like that.
You never know where someone is coming from until you actually ask, otherwise you're just assuming, and when we assume we make an ass out of you and me.
Now, when someone actually shows me they're a POS, and that they really do just want to be an asshole, THAT is when I write them off - but not before. It's important to try to reach each other before we slam the door.
Possibly -- but I really want to hear it from them. I want to know why, and I don't want to guess. Even if the answer fucking sucks, and it shows how nasty of a person they are, I still want to know.
You cannot heal evil if you do not know what it looks like.
I say this as someone who grew up in Texas, went to college in a tiny town, and had racist neighbors, school peers, sadly a few family members, and bosses.
Real racists are loud and proud about it.
Otherwise they're caught up in bullshit beliefs from their family. I call those 'baked racists' because they are made by their families, and not from real experiences. Those are the people you can work with.
Actual, prideful, truly hateful racists or homophobes will tell you with a smile on their face - and THOSE are the people you should be afraid of, and realize they are not able to understand anything but their rage. They truly hate people because of their experiences in life, and they don't GAF what you have to say.
When someone is baked by their bloodline to think a certain way, they have no idea why they feel like they do. They tell you something like a platitude such as "well they're the ones of welfare/they use the wrong bathroom/they don't love Jesus". They are stupid and are regurgitating what they hear. With the right information, they CAN be changed.
When someone is truly a racist, someone who is unreasonable, toxic, and just a walking pile of shit - they say hard-line things like: "I can't help it if they're inferior because of their blood." or "It's common knowledge of the world that there are those who serve, and those who are servants - and ____ people are the superior color." They do NOT care about how you see them, and they are proud of their race and color like it's an accomplishment.
I can work with someone who was pulled out the family oven.
I cannot work with someone who truly believes they are better than other people.
I need to know if my energy is useful to them, or wasted on them. If it's wasted, there are other people out there to collaborate with and change the perspective of.
If you write everyone off, you cannot bring them to the light.
Usually, if you tell a 'baked racist' they're racist - they ask why. If you explain to them rationally, and why they are wrong, they are willing to hear you out.
If they're really, actually hateful, unchangeable racist - they say, "I know" "Yep" or "It's not racist, it's facts".
I don't waste my time with people who find shitty things about a group of people to be true as a whole. That is not how we should treat each other.
Everyone deserves a chance to prove who they are without being assumed they are something or think something.
This comment will be a bit past just that certain farming sphere but about the larger issue.
When it comes to the reactionary/regressive sphere they seem incapable of basic connecting the dots at this point.
The "Free Thinkers" that seem to be hustled by the most obvious of scam artists.
Trump is a stereotypical snake oil salesman.
Trumps cronies are stereotypical con-artist grifters.
When it comes to anything but self-enriching they flail & fail continuously.
There has been a kind of lowest common denominator style populism fostered by the worst of the worst in our world because that is easier to misinform and mislead.
It's wild watching farmers that didn't believe in data, science, and observable reality now starting to wake up that the climate has issues (climate change).
It's also wild that none of the different groups within these spheres have realized yet that sometimes (many times) in life people actually working together can make things brighter and better then always framing things and pushing for winners and losers type paradigms.
But alas so many of these types are grossly apathetic and lacking in basic kindness and human decency that they can never really fathom putting themselves in other peoples shoes.
Le sigh... It's going to take a long time to repair the damage done by all these types. Time to get people with actual education, experience, and expertise back in the rooms of decision making and not lame shitty reality tv stars.
Farmers are waiting for the next round of handouts. It’s why they voted for him in the first place. They literally counted on his bailouts from day one.
Here's the thing--dems would also give them handouts. And food production should be subsidized for national security. I think that is sound policy.
Can dems tell farmers the subsidies won't stop if they vote for them?
And honestly, while I think it should be their complete and total responsibility, I would even be okay with my taxes subsidizing more sustainable farming practices that reduce runoff and pollution from farms. I live in iowa, our water quality is awful and cancer rates are very high, and we all know it's because of literal shit in the water from farms, as well as carcinogenic chemicals leaching into the soil and waterways.
We also all know that no business self-regulates until there is a steep enough penalty in place that they can't afford not to regulate.
But historically subsidized and price controlled farm products have been used to implement government food programs. Eg government cheese, EFAA, EFAP, etc. Point is these that farm subsidies and nutrition assistance don’t need to be an either/or proposition if properly implemented
Historically yeah, but this admin is destroying food programs and social safety nets. I just don’t understand why subsidized food production isn’t considered socialism, when that’s exactly what it is.
I think you could have a good faith disagreement over whether market interventions through subsidies absent social ownership of the means of production qualify as socialism, but it’s really irrelevant to the discussion since in American political discourse “socialism” has traditionally been used to describe a market regulation of subsidy given to somebody else that you don’t think the government should be doing. And that’s the bottom line: this whole discussion gets shaped by rural class conflict and tribalism.
lmaoooo. We both know they're too proud to do that shit. They'll go bankrupt and off themselves before they act like the rest of us and make that cash the blue collar way.
Seems like most redditors idea of a farmer is a California vegetable farmer hiring undocumented workers for wages below market. The slaver quip is still dumb as hell, but that's what they're talking about.
I'm actually not assuming any of those things. What I am doing is explaining the stereotype that farmers hire migrant workers even though it's like 3% of all farms that do. And pointing out that equating it to slavery is dumb as hell.
They don't actually pay pickers below minimum wage.
Picking season is seasonal. They're paid well for the 3-4 days up to a couple weeks they pick for each farmer; but picking isn't a year-round thing unless you move around a lot.
It's like paying your HVAC guy. You pay him well - for that job. You don't pay him well for the whole year.
Picking is migrational and piece rate. You're not an hourly employee, you are paid by the piece. Per apple bin, per cherry lug, etc. When I picked I received $9 per apple bin for red delicious and $4 per lug of cherrys. it's a highly skilled job that requires agility, high dexterity and a fast pace in order to make enough money to survive.
On my BEST day I managed 7 bins of apples. That was $63. Pretax. The hispanics averaged 11-13 bins a day with some families getting higher numbers. I did significantly worse in cherries and did not finish the season. Pickers do not make minimum wage.
Sunup until it was too hot, usually about 1-2 in the afternoon. Once it gets too hot, the fruit bruises way easier. So in order to preserve quality of fruit the days over after certain temp thresholds are reached.
So, realistically, approximately 6 or 7 hours of total labor, assuming sunrise at 5 or 6 AM. Would you clock your overall daily wage above or below the minimum wage for your region/state?
Well, it's piece rate. So assuming you're a lifelong picker with skills like a jungle mongoose - You're probably going to make under minimum wage. The allure of the job stems from traveling for work and living in a low cost country like Mexico, where most of our skilled labor comes from.
I'm not saying you won't make minimum wage or more, i'm just saying that if you live in the US and don't pick for a living and migrate with the work, you'll be below the poverty line. I made less than minimum wage. It was taxed and my identity was verified.
Which brings me to another point, i'll sprinkle in some more knowledge. When pickers are chosen they need to produce work documents. SS card or Green card etc. The farmer has no way to verify beyond calling a number to check the validity of a social security number. Think green light go or red light no go, simplicity. Anything else is a breech of confidentiality and the feds take that seriously.
So for everyone saying the US hires undocumented migrants for slave labor, maybe. But from the farmers perspective he's done all he can to verify and as long as the paperwork passes the hurdles that person picks. Typically spending 1-10 days in a single orchard before going to another for work.
Edit: Sunrise is early around here and people are on ladders at dusk. Think more like 8-9 hours with a quick late morning lunch break. On the ladder at 6 and done by 1:30-2. During cherries we were on the ladders at 5 and done by 12:30-1. PNW region, eastern half of Washington.
Looool I can just imagine the sight of a bunch of big belly wannabe cowboys with their boots and hats standing outside home Depot waiting to get a job 🥲
Bargaining to get paid a decent fee.
Realizing they will have to be paid whatever the boss wants...
I spoke to a landscape company owner at a wedding over the weekend. He complained that he can't find employees and how 'no one wants to work'. I asked him what wages he offers employees and he refused to answer the question...
For most of the loudest whining farmers, they look like they physically could not do any hard work. 😳 For many of them, it is difficult to get both their faces and their insanely huge beer bellies into the same camera shot.
I have a backyard garden and I’m always looking out for more compost. Since you voted to deport your own workers you should have some unused soil laying around. Haul it over and I’ll pay you less than minimum wage to mix it into my beds and corn patch and I’ll even call ICE on you after you get upset when I stiff you.
By which you actually mean that we would have to keep up with your multi-ton, diesel-powered, mortgaged-to-the-teeth tractor, right? The air-conditioned cab with Wi-Fi and television and a little mini-fridge to keep your snacks cool?
Gosh, how could we ever survive the tortures that the modern farmer endures! 🙄
Tractor is paid for. No wifi, television or fridge. I do try to keep the air conditioning going because with all that glass, even on a mild day it gets absolutely miserable inside without it. An open air tractor is more comfortable then a cab with no AC.
And if you think sitting in the tractor is a significant portion of what I do, like I said - you're welcome to come on out and find out for yourself.
Harris 24.
Biden 20.
Johnson 16. (So sue me. Polls said Clinton was a lock, I was pissed at how the DNC had screwed over Bernie and Trump would.have won my state even if he had died a month before the election.)
The loudest voices opposing student loan debt relief were farmers. The loudest voices opposing any form of anti-poverty initiatives for many years have been idiot farmers screaming about "socialism" while cashing their government checks. This is what we should say to these farmers:
"You farmers obviously just need to buy less lattes, pull yourselves up by your bootstraps, and work harder! Stop whining! You welfare queens are sucking our tax dollars from the government teets!"
In other words, we should say to these hypocrite farmers exactly what they've been saying to everyone else while they were voting over 80% for a gold-plated, trucker-hat-wearing, MAGA-branded version of fascism.
Those paying attention will remember this is the 2nd time the leopards went farm eating. His first term did the same thing and then he...bailed them out. So we're at the stage of them waiting on the welfare checks...again. Also the footage of these farmers are all overweight and out of shape...they aren't capable of physical labor...they wouldn't last an hour.
tbf if the last 20 years have taught us anything I can’t think of anything more American than collectively shooting ourselves in the foot at the polling booth.
Some people prefer to sit at home with their mediocre low tech farm system, and complain instead of pulling themselves up by the bootstraps to go look for work, imagine the gall of some people
While of course I agree that the dolts basically voting for hate against their own interests predictably get to marinate in that hate- and nothing. Hang on here.
Rural here. You know who is buying those farms? Massive, faceless corporate entities - and they're making a hash outta the land.
I don't know what is the answer. I do know celebrating the demise of the family farm means less than nothing in the C-Suites now making decisions for all of us - and our food.
Acre Trader. Vance and Theil are owners. They are buying up distressed farms with the intent of leasing them out to, essentially, sharecroppers. Or data centers. Sharecroppers. Let that sink in. Farmers as slaves.
WTF. Sharecropping is not slavery, that's a dumb as hell take. In fact, it can help mitigate the farmers risk because instead of paying a set cash rent no matter what happens, the landowner shares the hit in a poor year. With that mitigation of risk, of course, the farmer may not have as big a payday in a bumper year, but those are the pros and cons.
I honestly can’t feel bad that corporations are buying their farms. This is what they voted for. Trump did them no favors (except hand outs) his first term and farm bankruptcies went up.
Now farm bankruptcies are up almost 50% this term. The writing was on the wall but they chose not to read it and instead blame immigrants, focus on non-existing trans issues and guess what? They will do it again. When 2028 comes around they are still going to vote republican. Some of them may be angry at Trump but they’ll justify their vote by saying “well it’s not Trump this time”.
Farmers losing their farms have only themselves and the republican party to blame
170
u/eclwires 17h ago
They’ll never answer that question honestly.