r/LetsDiscussThis • u/LucidSynapse23 • 12d ago
Lets Discuss Politics How negotiations actually work...
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u/RemoveFuture5180 12d ago
Then the deal maker trump came along and fucked it all up
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u/Unhappy-Pianist-7391 8d ago
lol ! Maybe he should just give Iran 1.7 billion dollars t ok help Iran build nuclear power! Why is the left brain dead ?
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u/Opposite_Example6930 6d ago
It was literally Iran's money, and if we hadn't given it back to them, an international court was going to require us to pay interest on it as well. It's becoming apparent why you're a republican....because you don't bother checking your facts.
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u/No-Pause7121 11d ago
There wasn’t a deal. Iran violated the deal numerous times over. Even under Obama and yes trumps first term. Plus Biden didn’t do anything about them to even try and spark a new agreement. They been enriching uranium the whole time they agreed not to. Denied inspections. Wanted to reschedule the said inspections. Which was never part of the deal. So there in for the deal was never doing anything.
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u/DroidArbiter 11d ago
That is absolutely catagorically false. While the Obama administration and the International Atomic Energy Agency (IAEA) were managing the agreement, the IAEA repeatedly verified that Iran was fully complying with all of its nuclear restrictions and limits.
Show the class where the IAEA reported that Iran violated the agreement.
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u/GamemasterJeff 11d ago
This is completely made up bullshit. IAEA verified that Iran was not only in full compliance, they actually went beyond their obligations.
Biden did not "spark" a new agreement because Trump killed the first one in his first term, and as a result the Iranians who supported it were either killed or otherwise pushed out of power. It was a predicted result of the US' unprovoked and unilateral breaking of the treaty.
They had enriched uranium only to the degree the deal allowed, not an iota more.
While the treaty held, Iran grew more moderate and started opening up to the west a bit. If that had been allowed to continue, likely it would have significantly reduced world terrorism and middle east unrest. Of note, if the US had not repudiated the treaty, the success would have been the basis for a successor treaty that addressed long range missiles. Alas for what might have been.
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u/Unhappy-Pianist-7391 7d ago
Obama gave Iran $1.7 billion before the election ! Why ? Because Iran blackmailed Obama about Bin Laden being dead. Iran turns that money to funding Hamas, Hezbollah, PIJ, Houthis, Shia Militants just to name a few. Iran hates Americans and spews killing Americans. Trump is doing exactly what every president said since Bush, “Iran cannot have nuclear weapons”. Bam 💥! You enjoy your freedom as an American 🇺🇸? Then stay in your lane and be glad for your freedom to bitch. You would not be able to do it in China, Russia or Iran.
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u/GamemasterJeff 7d ago
Complete and utter hogwash.
The only 1.7b related to Iran during the Obama administration was the result of a lawsuit the US lost regarding Iranian moneys held in trust by the US government prior to the 1979 revolution, and accumulated interest from that fund.
The money was not "given" because it was always Iranian to begin with. It was returned to them as is legally required by US law.
It sounds to me like you want to US to break the law. Are you *really* advocating for comission of high crimes and misdemeanors? Because there's another law covering that....
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u/Unhappy-Pianist-7391 7d ago
That is the cover up ! You better go look up the dates of Bin Laden death, the shipment of $1.7 billion dollars and the date of the election. Then respond.
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u/Unhappy-Pianist-7391 7d ago
Why are you getting negatives? Because this site are blue voters that hate Trump because he is exposing fraud from the left.
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u/Banjo_the_Cattle_Dog 11d ago
Thank you. It’s frustrating that these Reddit people are in complete denial about this.
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u/BernadetteFedyszyn 11d ago
I'm not so sure if it's denial (OK, it obviously is) inasmuch as it's that "I hate Trump and everything Trump says, does, or associates with" pattern we see in, well basically everything. Fake outrage is a great term I've seen thrown out there.
I'm not all that well versed or remember too much about this, but even back then as a "know it all" left leaning college kid, EVEN I saw the flashing red flags on that "giving them a 60 day (?) notice of our inspectors coming" part of the "deal" was a bit suspect.
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u/anand_rishabh 11d ago edited 11d ago
It's not that easy to hide traces of nuclear weapon enrichment. Even with a 60 day notice, they wouldn't have been able to
Edit: 24 days. That was the deal, and it's impossible to hide traces of enrichment in 24 days.
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u/GamemasterJeff 11d ago
Given the physics involved, it's not like Iran could do anything hinky in 60 days. Enriching beyond the treaty limits leaves permanent (in human race timeline definitions, anyways) traces and cannot be concealed.
The reason people were outraged at this particular action is that it was amazingly short sighted and stupid.
It threw away everything we were in the process of gaining from the treaty and gained more world terrorism and increased instability in the middle east. It literally was the worst of all possible outcomes.
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u/BernadetteFedyszyn 11d ago
I'm the last person to be running my mouth on something that I know absolutely nothing whatsoever about, other than that "something stinking or just not right here" notion. I'm glad that you explained a lot, which makes perfect sense. Rather right or wrong, I've been under the impression (or taught) that there will never be peace in the middle east until THEY sort out THEIR own religious beliefs or differences since Mohammed died and WHO should lead Islam. Regardless if that's even remotely true or not, that's all the more reason(s) why we need to protect ourselves, or more so, run/lead/push for a world ran by whatever common sense and not some warped (my words) religious ideology
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u/GamemasterJeff 11d ago
While there's some truth to them needing to sort it out themselves, the only reason why it keeps spilling out into the western world is because we keep taking actions that inevitably make it worse.
They kept it more or less "in house" for the better part of 1500 years, six times longer than the US has existed before two people drew a really bad map over a cup of tea, an action that led to the targetting of the western world.
Since then we've had presidents that have tried to reduce the violence, and presidents that have tried to increase the violence. Unfortunately, Trump's actions entirely fall into the second category.
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u/BernadetteFedyszyn 11d ago
I've often questioned or wondered WHY we've put our noses in other country's affairs or business where it doesn't belong. Then, of course, that nudge or voice of "to protect our own interests and safety" kicks in, making it suddenly make all the sense in the world, if that makes sense. I'm not one of those "regretting my Trump vote" (not yet anyway,) but then again my support for Trump doesn't really have much to do with liking him or even supporting his policies, although I do agree with many (maybe just not so much his approach to them.) My support for him has all to do with watching that 3 day Senate Hearing of the FBI (Comey) over the FISA WARRANT and Steele Dossier held about a decade ago AND all that's transpired since, but that's another story
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u/Banjo_the_Cattle_Dog 11d ago
Well said. The “60 day” heads up does objectively seem asinine….
But yeah I think you’ve got a point, it probably falls into the “Trump bad” syndrome that I can’t help but jokingly refer to as TDS.
Cheers to you- you seem very measured. We’d probably get along. I was once a know-it-all college kid as well. Good to be able to relate to other people’s perspectives.
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u/BernadetteFedyszyn 11d ago
I'm probably the last person that should be running their mouth on foreign policies (or even many domestic policies for that matter) but a lot of this now makes even more sense. Of course many of these countries "hate" us/Trump. They know that we no longer have a weak leader that's going to continue to allow or let things slide and walk all over us. Granted, I'm not sure of all the details involved, but just Trump exposing a few of our NATO allies not contributing their agreed upon (I think it is/ was 3% of that country's GNP) into their own defense budget as part of being a NATO alliance. All I know is that something is going to give. It's going to have to.
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u/Fluid_Natural_9817 11d ago
When you have the mind of a third grader, you think bombs will solve everything.
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u/Aggressive-Focus345 11d ago
Can we get a simple presidential debate like they used to do between Barack and Trump. Just for fun so we can see the difference in actual intelligence between the 2? I'd love to watch Trumps last 2 brain cells fighting for 3rd place on live TV
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u/Artistic-Tip2405 11d ago
Obama didn’t get parades, statues or monuments in his name. All that work and no one to stroke his ego. /s
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u/CheckDangerous9224 9d ago
No just the ugliest over budgeted building, ever built in my hometown. You seen it, it the one built by black construction companies who are getting fucked out of their pay. Thanks for the massive eyesore Obama.
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u/TheEPGFiles 11d ago
Yeah, but Trump had an ego problem and thought he could do it better and then totally and absolutely fucked it up, like every adult in the room knew he would, but because they're all cowardly sycophants, they just let it happen.
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u/Funny-Professor-1753 11d ago
I know it’s not the point of the post but I can’t help but notice he said “WE” pulled it off…Trump would’ve claimed it as if nobody but him was involved. Small difference that speaks volumes
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u/Michael-Sean 12d ago
He should end with “I could run against Trump in 2028 and it wouldn’t even be close.”
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u/LegitimateQuit194 12d ago
I have always been wary of any individual who refers to themself in the third person and calls themselves a dealmaker. President Leaky Toot checks both boxes with red flags… or hats… same thing
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u/jackcanyon 12d ago
Trump is to stupid to get qualified people to help make the right decisions.He gets his advice from yes men and women ,not a good strategy.
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u/West-Worth-9359 10d ago
That’s the Dictator Trap.
Weak despotic leaders surround themselves with weak yes men who can’t or won’t tell them the truth, and this leads to massive failures.
Putin is in that right now, so is Trump.
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u/Felipe_de_Bourbon 11d ago
The negotiations were never the final purpose. The purpose was the destruction of the Israel allies, which coincidentally are in the area of the grand Israel project and stop the oil flow to China. In the beginning of this year, thousands of little fishing boats were seen between China and Taiwan.
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u/JagR286211 11d ago
In my opinion, the majority of individuals who are honest acknowledge that the JCPOA had significant flaws. However, the question of whether the current approach is the appropriate one remains open for debate.
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u/Secure_Meaning3900 11d ago
This mutt gave them billions, gave them uranium, and enabled them to go nuclear. They dont need nuclear for energy.
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u/insertstupidnamehare 11d ago
Agree to disagree is code for “I got nothin’.”
I respect you have a different opinion than me and I do enjoy discussions like these because I’m always on the lookout for a new perspective. But we are clearly worlds apart and it just further illustrates to me how disconnected from reality people with money are.
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u/ConkerPrime 10d ago
Pretty sure at this point conservatives think the war is about opening the Strait and believe it has been closed until Trump decided to do something about it.
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u/V0T0N 10d ago
It was Mitch McConnell and the GOP led Senate that DID NOT ratify the deal.
It could have been done, but the GOP forced the poison-pill of the requiring the Executive branch to recertify the deal every 60(90?) days.
Trump actually went along with it for awhile in 2017, until he was forced to explain why he was recertifying the deal.
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u/Sarabeth68 9d ago
Hey Natalie Harper, when you get done doing whatever it is you are doing fror Trump. let him know ......Another thing Barack Hussein Obama did better than Donnie "Epstein Files" Trump, and the list is long
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u/Big-Feature4234 9d ago
This is a flat out lie, but coming from Obama that’s to be expected. If he actually did say that most of these memes that are put up here put up by people making shit up and the numbers were actually quite the opposite. We got about 3% of their uranium. All you gotta do is a little research to find that out.
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u/SabotRam 9d ago
And we gave them billions of dollars and they started enriching more uranium immediately.
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u/Local_Honeydew_9266 8d ago
There was a definite dispute that it worked! Hey have admitted to trying to build a nuclear weapon
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u/A_Big_Fat_Idiot 8d ago
You guys in the left wing sphere should've tried harder in 2024. Im just saying.
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u/Sir_Sensible 8d ago
See, Iran was building thousand of drones now, see how many they have rn? Imagine they kept doing that for another 10 years. If they kept doing that they could then back out of their end of the uranium deal, then there would be nothing anyone could have done as they gained an iron grip over the straight
Think if birth Korea had control of the straight? There's nothing anyone could do and they can threaten nuclear war if anyone tries anything.
Letting iran get to that point, I assume, was too dangerous
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u/gravygizzard 8d ago
But what about my feelings as a fragile conservative man!? That deal didn't fix those!
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u/RemoveFuture5180 8d ago
Trump fucked up a deal . get that in your head ok trump is not deal maker unless he profits from it.
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u/BannedbyDemons 8d ago
AND he did it after a loudmouth fart 🤡 was on TV bellowing bullshit about how Obama was going to get us into a war with Iran because he is weak and too stupid to make a deal. The fucking irony.
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u/North-Bit-7411 8d ago
So, how exactly did they end up on the doorstep of nuclear missile capabilities since this deal?
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u/Illustrious_End6949 8d ago
He gave them billions of dollars and they still were trying to make nukes.
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u/Infinite-Size-5365 7d ago
Obama started funding of terror in the middle east and Iran still started developing nuclear weapons ... to the tune of a couple hundred billion dollars.
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u/Illustrious_Today654 7d ago
trump doesn't seem to get that NOBODY is buying his "bully" act anymore.
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u/Son_of_Kek 7d ago
I wish Obama would show some political class and shut up.
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u/lotusbloom74 7d ago
He should be more like Trump! It was weird, never heard a peep out of Trump during the Biden years.
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u/KeyVariation8323 7d ago
This needs a little more context than “there’s no dispute that it worked.”
Obama is correct about one important fact: the JCPOA really did force Iran to remove roughly 97% of its enriched-uranium stockpile, dismantle thousands of centrifuges, cap enrichment at 3.67%, and accept substantially increased IAEA monitoring. Iran was complying with those major restrictions before the United States withdrew from the agreement in 2018.
But “it worked” depends entirely on what you mean by worked.
The agreement never ended Iran’s nuclear program. It explicitly allowed Iran to keep 5,060 enrichment centrifuges operating, retain a limited enriched-uranium stockpile, continue nuclear research, and continue its civilian nuclear program. Many of the most important restrictions also had expiration dates.
So the JCPOA was not nuclear disarmament. It was an agreement designed to delay Iran’s ability to produce enough highly enriched uranium for a weapon and give inspectors more visibility into what Iran was doing.
And how did the larger problem ultimately work out? Not very well.
The U.S. withdrew from the agreement in 2018. Iran subsequently abandoned many of the restrictions, greatly expanded its centrifuge program, enriched uranium all the way to 60%, and restricted some of the IAEA monitoring that had existed under the agreement. By 2025, the IAEA was calling Iran’s accumulation of highly enriched uranium a serious concern.
So there are two bad partisan versions of this history:
“The Iran deal accomplished nothing.” False.
“The Iran deal solved the Iranian nuclear problem.” Also false.
It successfully restrained Iran’s program for a period of time. It did not eliminate the program, eliminate Iran’s enrichment capability, or produce a permanent solution.
That is a much narrower accomplishment than “there’s no dispute that it worked” makes it sound.
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u/Murica4evr 7d ago
Obama didn’t do dick except give Iran pallets full of cash and allow them to enrich uranium behind our backs. He was weak.
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u/Realistic-Ruin-6424 7d ago
Do you remember when Israel infiltrated the Iranian secret nuclear program and exposed it on live TV? They had their plans, lab , etc. I am not a big Israel fan but this statement here is 100% wrong
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u/No_Accountant_5107 7d ago
He is so full of shit...... what an abomination.....WORST PRESIDENT IN THE HISTORY OF THE UNITED STATES, ABSOLUTELY THE WORST
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u/czbling 11d ago
And because of that bs look where we are now.
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u/ComicBookEnthusiast 8d ago
It was going well until Trump ended it then started a new endless war.
In fact, every war and recession the United States has entered since the 1980s has been under Republican presidents.
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u/brickville 7d ago
Yeah, look where we are now - President dipshit is going to get us into a much worse deal than what Obama had.
Surely you know the Trump deal will be much worse, you're not a fool, are you?
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u/Key-Juggernaut5695 11d ago
And then they ignore the agreement and continue to make progress towards a nuclear weapon. But nobody talks about it, so from that perspective, it works great.
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u/anand_rishabh 11d ago
Nobody talks about it cuz it wasn't true.
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u/Key-Juggernaut5695 11d ago
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u/Safe-Ad-8921 9d ago
Interesting how most people dont talk about things that didnt happen, but about a third of us desperately want to believe anything that fits their world view.
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u/Key-Juggernaut5695 9d ago
You are kidding yourself if you don't think Iran has continued to work on developing nuclear weapons. It is totally logical for Iran to want them. And they will eventually get them. It is 80 year old tech.
The only hope is that when they do, a more rational govt controls Iran. The Russians and the Chinese are very rational. NK is a pariah state, but rational in its own perverse way. Iran COULD be rational with nukes, but their rhetoric says otherwise...although I suppose it could all be bluster.
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u/Safe-Ad-8921 9d ago
Well here is the problem, the best we can do is make deals. Its obvious we have forgotten how to weild any of America's strengths to even get an agreement favorable to us in any way. Murdering a head of government in the middle of bad faith negotiations tends to do that. If Iran wants a nuke they will 100% get one now, what other choice do they have?
North Korea has a nuke and they are Trump's best buddies. This Iran thing is simply post Neo con fantasy finally getting lived out, and what a stunner thay literally everything the "commies" said was going to happen has happened. Khamenei did absolutely nothing inconsistent with the same regimes that Diaper Don worships.
The big difference is that they are at direct odds with Israel, which is why we went in. It has absolutely nothing to do with nuclear bombs and Im sorry the official line has convinced you otherwise.
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u/Key-Juggernaut5695 9d ago
Agreements are only useful if the other party is reliable. That was Obama’s error. He was too anxious to announce agreement and call an end to it, when the “agreement “ was meaningless. Trump’s error, possibly worse, is to so badly desire a painless victory. Iran isn’t going to readily collapse just from air strikes and Trump’s plan B is simply blockade. There is no great answer unless you are willing to accept mass civilian casualties, and we aren’t.
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u/Parahelix 7d ago
The problem here is that you've provided no evidence to back your claim that they were continuing to develop a nuclear weapon. US intelligence agencies say they weren't, as does the IAEA.
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u/Key-Juggernaut5695 7d ago
https://www.cfr.org/articles/what-are-irans-nuclear-and-missile-capabilities
Take particular note of: “Iran does not yet have a nuclear weapon, but it has a long history of engaging in secret nuclear weapons research in violation of its international commitments.”
Perhaps a reminder in parable would be helpful: https://allaboutfrogs.org/stories/scorpion.html
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u/Parahelix 7d ago
You should try actually reading the article. It doesn't support your claims at all. Iran had done secret research in the past, which why the JCPOA was put in place to begin with, which ensured that most of their uranium was removed, and the rest was closely monitored.
Nothing in the article supports your claim that they had any sort of active nuclear weapons program or any intention of having one. Both US and international intelligence agencies support that fact.
We had a working deal until Trump killed it for no good reason. Now he's started a war that they were neither prepared for, nor done sufficient planning for. Not particularly surprising, given that our military is being led by a weekend talk-show co-host who thinks lots of bombs and tough talk is a replacement for a sound strategy.
Iran had been preparing and planning for it for decades though, which is why Trump has completely failed to accomplish anything there, except to cause economic harm to the US and the world.
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u/Key-Juggernaut5695 7d ago
The point is the Iran has a track record of breaking deals and continuing nuclear weapons research in secret.
No reason to believe they have changed their stripes. Don't be the frog. Don't trust the snake.
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u/Parahelix 7d ago
The point is the Iran has a track record of breaking deals and continuing nuclear weapons research in secret.
Again, that's exactly why we had the JCPOA, so that we could monitor their uranium constantly, and that's after the vast majority of it had been removed.
We don't need to trust them, because we are able to verify, and there was absolutely no indication that they were violating the deal.
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u/Key-Juggernaut5695 6d ago
Uh, no. Iran has a track record of hiding stuff from inspectors. So no voluntary verification is complete.
So trust is still needed, and...
I wouldn't trust them as far as I could throw them.
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u/Parahelix 5d ago
They don't have a record of that with the kinds of inspections we had with the JCPOA, so that's just complete nonsense.
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u/Tifosi79 11d ago
except the plan did not work, it emboldened Iran and we have todays problem largely because of the feckless approach of Obama to this region. Remember the "red line" with no support once Iran crossed it.
you need to really study this region if you think what Obama did had any impact other than to strengthen Iran - the largest supporter of terrorism globally.
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u/GamemasterJeff 11d ago
You are mixing up events. The red line was in Syria regarding chemical weapons and Obama successfully removed chemical weapons from the region through negotiation. Iran never "crossed" it because it involved another country.
The JCPOA worked for three years during which moderates rose to political power in Iran fueled by the success. For example, terrorism sponsored in Iraq fell 75% during those years. Not all of that can be attributed solely to the JCPOA as the other bow in Obama's string was the resounding deafeats he iflicted on ISIS/ISIL which showed his combined strategy of confrontation and negotiation was more successful than any other US policy for decades.
With the rise of moderates in Iran, there were concrete steps taken to bring Iran more in alighment with the western nations. Naturally a mere three years meant thse were baby steps only, and those same moderates were all killed or exiled when Trump's repudiation destroyed their power base. The radicalism and anti-west stance of today are a direct result of trump's short sighted and quite predictable actions.
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u/Educational-Shock655 11d ago
That's a flat out lie, we never touched any uranium all we did was drop off pallets of cash. I was the flight officer when we dropped the money off and turned around and left. We never even shut down the engines. This is a good representation of what really happened.
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u/EmergenceEngineer 10d ago
Lybia have a open slave markets now.. you can buy girls… people have gone from a gdp of 10k to 6k…. It was turned into a living hell…. Let’s check in on Iran in 10years and see if it’s people have to deal with the kind of horror Obama’s Lybia..
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u/Just-Nitty 10d ago
Except he didn't... and they built a "modest civilian uranium enrichment facility"
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u/SpamFrybread1997 10d ago
No instead you gave them 300 billion and no oversight. Funny how you only need 20% enriched uranium to power their entire country forever, yet they had over 60%. Also funny how they chant death to america and obama started the slow death of our country with "same gender bathrooms".
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u/PoorSquirrrel 10d ago
No question that Obama was a better president. That said, this is not the same game anymore. Attempts to negotiate with Iran and hopes to make them civilized through a mix of sanctions and deals have failed. They murdered thousands of their own people while sending billions to terror groups whose only purpose in life is to kill as many jews as possible. The Iranian regime needs to be put down, period.
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u/jefsch70 10d ago
There's 'NO DISPUTE'? Who took 97% out? He throws out 97% because they game the UN 97 milligrams... He said 98% of "Scientists" believe global warming is a threat to mankind.... If it was such a threat, why did the environment crazies need to change the name due to no warming?
If we had 97% of their uranium, where did it go? Was it enriched (235 vs. 238 atomic weight)
No specificity , nor homework from the left.... I've never solved a vaguely worded problem in my life...nor have a solved something with rhetoric.
Isis/Isil formed "as the JV" during Obama's terms.... they executed people of video with a musical score....The Iranian nuclear deal was based on TRUST OF THE IRAN REGIME...After he gave them $70B in cash....That's why the Houthis, Hamas and Hezbholla were able to terrorize the region for 10 years.
It's gonna end badly; as most everything that ends does.... I would say total economic and infrastructure destruction of Iran and a new re-alignment in the 'moderate' Sunni muslum countries...but not before another year of death.
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u/ArtBot2119 10d ago
The uranium, which was both enriched and non-enriched, was shipped to Russia under the supervision of the IAEA and the co-signers of the agreement (I think it was England, Germany, China and France). There, the uranium was repurposed for fuel in nuclear reactors. IAEA used similar methods when they decommissioned a large portion of the American and Russian nuclear arsenals during Bush 1 and Clinton.
Also, Obama giving Iran cash is not entirely correct. Obama gave them access to funds seized and frozen in 1979 under a conservatorship agreement with Oman (it could be a different country, I don’t remember). The conservator had control of the escrow account, but Iran could draw from the funds for humanitarian purposes, like building schools, hospitals, and other types of civilian infrastructure and programs. Some portion of those funds falling into the wrong hands or being used for violence is likely, though it would be equally likely that the percentage of loss was very low due to Iran’s economic situation and the desperate need for those funds. In short, they couldn’t risk losing access because they were broke.
The deal also covered a reduction in centrifuges and how much uranium could be processed. It is this point where the deal broke down under the Trump administration in 2016. There were concerns about IAEA access to sites. This issue and others were never resolved due to the Trump administration abandoning the deal later in the same year.
Less than two percent of Iran’s current stockpile of uranium pre-dates 2016.
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u/jefsch70 9d ago
Did ANY news agency cover IAEA scientists having access to the entirety of IRAN's intra-mountain storage, processing, enrichment facilities? I never enen heard any single person saying that they had Carte-Blanch to travel thru Iran and see the centerfuges being disassembled and the Uranium being sold/taken away.
How many centerfuges did they find approximately? How much Uranium did Iran have? Were they compensated for it at market prices as nuclear power electric generator fuel.
I believe that there was an enormous Gold & Cash direct transfer at the end of Obama's 2nd term from the US to Iran after the aggreement... and yes, we all know that much was siezed in 1979; but so were US assets in Cuba in 1959 - 62; and never returned/compensated.
Iran has been at war with everyone who is not Shiite Muslim since 79... we have spent $10s of Billions protecting the US, Israel, Europe and cargo ships for 47 years... and Obama gave them billions in return for a pinky promise.... No inspections....
Obama was OK with the IRS doing inspections of 403c applications from American Citizens from another viewpoint, but not IRAN...the world's sponsor of terrorist activities....
Hey , did Barry ever find out who destroyed the IRS emails at the same time that ALL of the SERVERS were deleted? Nah... He and OJ still looking for the perps....
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u/ArtBot2119 9d ago
The inspection process doesn’t establish the number of centrifuges, because that’s too easy beat. This is an adversarial relationship, so quantifying the stockpiles and centrifuges is established through a tried and true private sector formula used to establish a production output range.
Example:
You own a massive car company. Your primary competitor is ABC car company and they are lying, cheating bastards who never disclose how many cars they make. But you need to know how many cars they make per year to determine your market share, so how do you establish this?
Counting the number of cars on the lot is not only time consuming, but inaccurate because you don’t know where all the lots are or how many are offsite or in transit, nor do you know how many are being brought online per day during the count. So instead of counting them, you watch the factory.
To establish the output of any production system you only need a couple data points. If you can establish how many materials are going in, and the basic productivity of the workers and the process, then you can establish the annual output of the ABC car company.
This is the process utilized to established the estimates for the stockpiles and the centrifuges, and the estimates are going to be exceedingly accurate due to level of surveillance, the knowledge of US - because the process was pioneered here, and the constraints of the process itself.
In the case of the uranium, there are two choke points in the production process that are unavoidably noticeable. The first is the mine. During the Cold War, especially during the initial decade, it was absolutely essential for both nations to establish the output of uranium mines by observation. In modern times it’s even easier to do, because satellites and experts can see all the equipment, personnel, size of the mine and the trucks leaving, giving them the annual output of the mine. The second thing they watch to establish the uranium stockpile is the reactor. The first step in the enrichment process begins at the reactor and the first and last step of this stage of the process requires the Iranians to shut the reactor down, a process easily recognizable from satellite. So they know the output of the mine, they know the capacity of the reactor and they know how many times the reactor was turned off, this all you really need to know to build a solid estimate of the total uranium stockpile.
The centrifuges are even easier to watch because of two somewhat similar reasons. First, and this is the big one, certain components of the centrifuges must be imported by Iran. These components are very unique and can only be supplied by a small number of sources and these sources are heavily monitored. This gives you the input to the factory. The second is the assembly of the centrifuges doesn’t lend itself to assembly line production methods because of personnel involved. The method used is more akin to Patriot Missiles, which take years to produce. Well, the US and Israel know where the production floors are, because they watch the specialized personnel, they have expert level knowledge of the process and the input, money, manpower, materials needed to scale, so this allows them to estimate how many centrifuges there are, how much uranium can be enriched and to what level.
So what are the inspections for? The inspectors are primarily looking for paperwork (to confirm the estimates) and to watch the specialists and their research (to gauge intent).
The big thing to remember here is all of this is 1950’s technology. The enrichment process, fundamentally, comes down to turning as gas into a solid through increasing pressure, not a difficult feat. The trick of course is not blowing yourself up. But the US pioneered the entire process, so the process is virtually impossible to hide. When the pooled the assets of four other nations are layered on top of the US, all with their own expertise, these “estimates” become exact.
So yes, the signatories on the agreement had as close to a rock solid count as anyone could get.
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u/jefsch70 9d ago
We couldn't contol billion of sanctioned barrels of oil shipped in 1,100 ft long, slow moving tankers and you think we can 99% "KNOW" if small amounts of Unranium and parts for building a centrrfuge or 20 can be confidently accounted for?
If so, why did Iran not allow inspection instead of opting for complete military destruction? Leaders are dead, Navy is gone, Air force is gone, 90+% of missles are fired or blown up on the ground..... Those tankers are NOW blocked in....
A simple allowance of a multi-national set of 12=15 experts could have avoided that..... why do you suppose they opted for destruction over inspection of something that they ARE COMPLYING WITH ???
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u/ArtBot2119 9d ago
Yes, it was accounted for. The hundreds of people in charge of this process are all experts armed with decades of personal experience relying on over half a century of knowledge in the field. They know how to conduct these estimations and the transportation and disposal methods are well established. Working groups like these have done followed this process for the US, Russia, Ukraine, Iraq, Libya, and to a lesser extent North Korea. They are aware of the dangers, so it always runs by the numbers. It’s just what they do.
Why was Iran refusing to comply? I can’t really say, though my suspicion would be they were trying to maintain the bargaining chip in the hope of more funds being released. They expected an offer. They needed an offer to sustain their economy. They didn’t get it.
Why would they allow so much of their country to be destroyed? There is a complex cultural component to it, but at the end of the day the real reason is they don’t care. Their one goal is survival of the regime. Millions of Iranians could die and it would be meaningless to them so long as they survived. You could turn the entire country into a smoking crater, and if one member of the regime survived, they would crawl out of whatever hole they hid in to plant their flag in the ashes.
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u/Illustrious_Gate_390 10d ago
Yeah, he didn't have dementia and the dems had a primary that he participated in. Crazy how that worked out well instead of the crap they tried last election.
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u/AlarmedLavishness955 10d ago
He didn’t negotiate shit he said pallets of cash to them in planes that he didn’t tell anybody about. That’s not negotiation that’s buying people.
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u/Neopluradon 10d ago
It's almost like the political landscape isn't the exact same as it was 10+ years ago and its not as easy of a comparison as Reddit wants it to be
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u/altruistic_load_5774 10d ago
He gave them a bunch of money and then they went ahead and built a nuclear enrichment facility anyway.
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u/Whole_Commission_702 10d ago
Yeah just give them 100s of billions. Great negotiating. Accomplished nothing and you funded their continued nuclear research.
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u/Tasty-Simple6397 10d ago
Doesn’t take much skill to drop off pallets of cash to the world’s biggest sponsor of terrorism. Than that cash is used to kill soldiers of countries that you were to protect.
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u/random_squirreZZ 10d ago
😂 barry soetoro sold uranium to them in the form of hillary clintons uranium one deal. He gave them pure hard cash ;) have fun
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u/dennybear-17 9d ago
Barack Obama is not some mythic “savior president” like the media wants you to believe. He was a disaster from day one — and his legacy is a trail of broken promises, weakened institutions, and political corruption that still haunts this country today.
Let’s get this straight: Obama wasn’t just bad. He was the worst president in modern American history.
▪️The Lies of Obamacare He sold his signature law with one of the biggest lies ever told to the American people: “If you like your doctor, you can keep your doctor.” Millions of Americans found out the truth the hard way. Premiums skyrocketed. Deductibles exploded. Families were stuck with less choice and worse care. And what was the real goal? More government control of your health care, plain and simple.
▪️The Failed Economy For eight long years, America limped through the weakest economic recovery since the Great Depression. Wages were flat. Good jobs disappeared. The middle class shrank. Millions gave up looking for work. Obama and his defenders called it “the new normal.” No — it was failure dressed up as inevitability. And they wanted you to believe you’d never do better again.
▪️Foreign Policy Disasters Obama’s foreign policy was one long apology tour. He abandoned Iraq, creating the vacuum that birthed ISIS. He bowed to Iran, sending pallets of cash to the world’s #1 state sponsor of terrorism while pretending it was “peace.” He “led from behind” in Libya, leaving chaos and bloodshed that continues to this day. Russia walked into Crimea without fear of consequences. China grew bolder, more aggressive, more confident that America under Obama wouldn’t stop them. The world got more dangerous because America got weaker.
▪️Division at Home Obama promised unity, but he governed with arrogance and contempt. If you disagreed with him, you weren’t just wrong — you were treated like an enemy of progress. He leaned hard into identity politics, fueling resentment and dividing Americans by race, class, and ideology. Instead of healing wounds, he poured salt in them.
▪️The Russiagate Hoax And then there’s the most poisonous part of his legacy. Under Obama, the FBI, CIA, and DOJ were turned into political weapons. They pushed the Clinton-funded Steele Dossier — a collection of lies and gossip — to spy on Donald Trump’s campaign. They knew it was garbage, but they used it anyway. They wanted to cripple Trump before he ever took office. Obama’s own team met in the Oval Office in January 2017 to discuss how to keep the hoax alive after he left office. Russiagate wasn’t an accident. It was a deliberate political hit job, born in Obama’s Washington.
▪️The Real Legacy This is why conservatives will never forget. Obama left behind more division, more debt, more government intrusion, and more corruption than any president in modern times. He set the stage for today’s toxic politics, where the intelligence community spies on Americans, the media runs cover for Democrats, and anyone who challenges the establishment is targeted.
▪️The Truth is Simple Barack Obama weakened America abroad, divided America at home, and corrupted America’s government. That is his legacy.
And history will not remember him as a hero. It will remember him as the worst president in modern American history — the man who hollowed out the country he claimed to love, and left us all paying the price.
It’s long overdue for him to face legal consequences.
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u/Fist2satisfy 9d ago
And in process, you gave billions of dollars cash to the regime to spread between terrorists by IRGC.
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u/CheckDangerous9224 9d ago
That's all bullshit. They kept on enriching uranium and didn't give it up. You also forget the pallets of cash he gave them to play nice. Thanks Obama.
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u/FlightPlanGoblin 9d ago
from Ronald Reagan into Joe Biden, they were all wrong about Iran. All of them didn’t have the guts to do what needed to be done. Watch Susan Kokinda she will explain it to you why Trump tool out Iran Uranium and the and Hormuz.
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u/FamiliarPlatform79 9d ago
Then they gave them billions under biden and the foreign policy was "Dont" while they absolutely did. Guess they should have done better afterall.
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u/WatercressNo7660 7d ago
This post is such garbage. Obama only did what China told him to do to destroy this country. And main stream media covered it all up for the deep state! Obama was a “Tool”
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u/Mysterious_Truck_742 12d ago
Yes and no. As I recall, all that President Obama says was true, but it was for a 10 year period. After which, US/EU inspectors will leave the country and the US would release money due to Iran. There would be no oversight in year 11 going forward…
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u/StoryNo9640 12d ago
The point was to negotiate an extension of the deal before then. Trump couldn’t handle it so he tore it up with no replacement, hence the stupid fucking war we’re in and ruining our children’s future for.
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u/brickville 7d ago
So instead of negotiating for an extension, you throw it all away, start are war, and wind up with a much worse deal. What a dipshit.
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u/Bill__7671 12d ago
And how many billions did he pay them, and they sent it to terrorist…yeah really good negotiator
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u/Expensive_Cheetah820 12d ago
The money belonged to Iran it was released from a frozen account. But you can’t think if your mouth is open.
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u/brickville 7d ago
Right... And trump is going to make a worse deal with the terrorist. That would make him an even worse negotiator, right?
You know that's going to happen. Iran holds the cards, Trump's deal is going to look like shit compared to Obama's. But he and the MAGAs will say it's bigly better for 'reasons'.
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u/Pitiful_Bobcat_8884 11d ago
And he gave them a shit pile of cash in the dead of night hoping no one would notice.
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u/Fast_Worldliness_370 11d ago
Hmmm. Except for the fact they did not permit requisite inspections and secretly manufactured military grade uranium in caves deep underground and busily make ballistic missiles elsewhere. What future does that create?
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u/kingofwale 11d ago
“They were able to maintain a modest civilian nuclear program for energy…”
….about that…
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u/JTacos12 11d ago
It did not work, the Iranians themselves admitted to having enough enriched uranium to make 11 nuclear bombs.
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u/LumpySleep8044 11d ago
Obama got played trump is getting played, only israel know what needs to be done
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u/Suitable_Program_548 12d ago
It’s literally night and day. Having a real President vs. a Dumpf.