r/MapBasedPolls • u/Additional_Donut_35 • 1d ago
Which one do you prefer?
Which one do you prefer?
- Liberalism
- Socialism
- Nationalism
Note: Please use the official Reddit app or New Reddit to vote in this interactive poll.
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u/Historical_Fun9685 1d ago
Social democracy🌹 which incorporates all of these three ideologies.
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u/zulpi67-volt 🇨🇿🇪🇺 Czechia 🇪🇺🇨🇿 1d ago
Not nationalism.
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u/Historical_Fun9685 1d ago
Do social democrates not believe in a nation state? Yes social democrats definitely can be nationalists
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u/zulpi67-volt 🇨🇿🇪🇺 Czechia 🇪🇺🇨🇿 1d ago
The idea is generally that welfare applies to everyone equally (or, like, proportionally, but you know what I mean), so no, I'd say social democracy is like the one ideology that can't really be combined with nationalism
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u/RecursiveNightmares 16h ago
welfare applies to everyone equally
Everyone with an ID, yes.
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u/zulpi67-volt 🇨🇿🇪🇺 Czechia 🇪🇺🇨🇿 16h ago
Yeah? How is that relevant in any way?
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u/Pale-Philosopher4502 1d ago
It doesn’t though, social democracy is a form of capitalism. It doesn’t encompass the workers owning the means of production, it’s only socialist if you think socialism means the government doing stuff.
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u/Historical_Fun9685 1d ago
Not really the original 20th century social democrats were absolutely socialists such as the German SPD and the British Labour Party.
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u/Pale-Philosopher4502 1d ago
Sure they originally wanted to slowly transition into socialism but 1 they have abandoned that already and 2 that still isn’t socialism. No part of modern social democracy is socialism.
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u/Elyvagar 1d ago
Crazy how socialism wins in so many western countries and then you look into the elections and the socialist parties barely have 5-10% if even that.
Just goes to show how much of an echo chamber Reddit really is and if you ever think that whatever is being said on Reddit even remotely resembles irl opinions then think again because its not the case in the slightest... thankfully.
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u/milic_srb 1d ago
no, it's because there are no real socialist parties there
If there was a socialist economically but socially centrist party I think it would sweep the vote in many countries
like the problem is that many socialist parties either just call themselves that and are actually nationalist, liberal, or whatever else, or they are socialist but they are so progressive that they forget the focus on the economy at all.
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u/Elyvagar 1d ago
And what exactly, if you dont mind answering, would a proper economically socialist party advocate for?
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u/milic_srb 1d ago
I mean I'm mostly looking at yugoslavia as a Serbian. It doesn't have to be full communism like the soviet union, we know how that went down... But like a party that advocates for strong welfare system, and potentially nationalising of key sectors that regard to infrastructure, housing, etc. Like a party that focuses on actual results, that has a top down look on infrastructure and urbanism instead of letting a million different companies develop on their own. And a party that doesn't focus on social issues. Like I'm not saying it has to be anti progressive, that would be bad too. But a party that's more just "keeping the status quo" on progressive issues like lgbtq, inclusivity, etc. I think those issues are already at a very high level in most of europe, so the focus should rather be on building up a system for regular people to be able to live comfortably. I think housing is the biggest problem. I think a socialist party's first goal should be to deflate the housing market and start nationalizing residential real estate on mass. And on immigration it has to be against it, not for an ideological or race reason, but because you cannot sustain a strong welfare state when there's a strong influx of people in the country, and it deteriorates social trust. Only after everyone who is already in the country can live comfortably can you look into slowly opening up the borders again.
That's just my opinion tho
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u/Elyvagar 1d ago
A lot of things like a strong welfare system and nationalizing the housing market simply do not work with an open border policy as you have stated yourself. Other than that I surprisingly don't disagree with a lot of things here. In Germany they privatized the railways and now its utter rubbish. The DB is a laughing stock worldwide.
Imagine a GERMAN company being know for not being punctual. German! Any less punctual than the japanese railways should be a crime here.0
u/giantpects42 22h ago
Actually its due to old people having political power, and the media being a right wing echo chamber
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u/Elyvagar 20h ago
and the media being a right wing echo chamber
If you think that media is now right-wing because X and Facebook allow those viewpoints now you are delusional.
State media, any news channel, especially here in Germany is center-left leaning. What does the US have Fox news? Thats about it with large conservative media.1
u/giantpects42 19h ago
The media, by virtue of it being a business, is usually right wing, because it wants to protect its owners from taxation and government oversight, and therefore pushes right wing rhetoric, which makes it a right wing echo chamber
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u/Elyvagar 19h ago
The media, by virtue of it being a business
Are all news channels in the US private? In Germany they are state TV channels. They are paid for by the taxpayer through something called "GEZ". You are conservative or right-wing like 50%+ of the country? Well too bad, state media is firmly in the hands of center-left to far-left activists and you HAVE to pay them and if you refuse to pay because your views are not represented? Jail for 6 weeks or until you pay. Great isn't it?
But sure, media is right-wing, totally.1
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u/Crimez392 1d ago
Notices how the countries who have lived under communism and socialism are voting for liberalism, but reddit teens who think left wing is the best are voting communism
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u/jmona789 1d ago
Communism was not an option in the poll.
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u/Pale-Philosopher4502 1d ago
Communism is just the ideal end stage of socialism
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u/sudoregalia professional trans tankie spy 23h ago
it's not. non-communist anarchists exist
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u/Pale-Philosopher4502 23h ago
This reply doesn’t make sense… how does my original reply contradict the claim that you can be a non communist anarchist?
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u/sudoregalia professional trans tankie spy 23h ago
because that's a form of socialism that doesn't have communism as the end goal
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u/Pale-Philosopher4502 23h ago
How is anarchism socialism?
Communism is a stateless, classless and moneyless society.
Socialism is when the workers own the means of production.
And anarchism is the abolishment of the state.
Anarchism isn’t a form of socialism.
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u/sudoregalia professional trans tankie spy 23h ago
please speak to anarchists. they, genuine anarchists who read anarchist theory, are socialists
the definition of state between marxists and anarchists is different, and the labour organisational model between an anarcho-communist and an anarcho-syndicalist are different
anarchism has, as one of its goals, workers' ownership of the means of production. every anarchist detests capitalism
also, there are "anarcho-capitalists", but they're far-right lunatics who have co-opted anarchist rhetoric for their own agenda. similar to how national socialists aren't socialists
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u/Pale-Philosopher4502 23h ago
Buddy you are all lunatics so don’t try to pretend like socialist anarchists are any better than anarcho capitalists. And even then both are anarchists.
If you want the workers to own the means of production then you are a socialist, it doesn’t matter if it’s through a marxist revolution or through anarchism.
And both still have the same end goal of communism meaning a stateless, moneyless and classless society.
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u/sudoregalia professional trans tankie spy 23h ago
And even then both are anarchists.
and that's where you lose me. good luck talking to national "socialists"
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u/Quick-Estimate-5936 1d ago
Seems like you're just seeing what you want to see.
Communism was not an option in the poll, and reddit teens are predominantly from the US, who voted for liberalism. Socialism is the closest to liberal social democracy, which is what most of Europe has as its political basis. The most 'liberal' place is america, but that's clouded because the US definition of liberal is different to the rest of the world.
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u/Third_Rate_Duelist_ 22h ago
OP had the perfect chance to make nationalism yellow or green, but of all colors he chose the one blue and red make when mixed. OP suck major ahh
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u/Elictronic-223 16h ago
im not trying to be edgy, but im a nationalist and a socialist... so? i mean like a social conservative who favours economic socialism with a nationalist outlook
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u/wowowowow34341 Rasha 1d ago
Liberalism with nationalist elements
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u/Additional_Donut_35 1d ago
Like?
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u/Flat-Bandicoot9936 1d ago
All countries are nationalist to an extent, all countries I’d argue also have varying levels of liberal elements to them (well maybe besides North Korea) but I think good examples of both:
Turkey, Japan, Ukraine (only recently), Argentina (was a bit social Dem until recently) etc. All are liberal and all have very high levels of nationalism.
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u/wowowowow34341 Rasha 1d ago
well that's good, i also support lighter gun regulation for example. patriotic liberalism is quite based
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u/Flat-Bandicoot9936 1d ago edited 1d ago
Some Liberalism with some nationalism is good. However I will pick nationalism as despite my many quarrels with extreme nationalists (and just looking at it objectively, it is a very abstract ideology, half of Africa are countries that never existed in their current forms and were created by colonial powers, and yet you can meet strong Kenyan nationalists) it’s worked very well and become arguably the most dominant political force globally. Liberalism has sometimes failed miserably, from the UN in recent years, the rise of right wing populism it’s failed miserably to combat and an overly stringent ECHR.
I also think some of the best countries are sometimes better led as authoritarian dictatorships, that allow democracy later (though some like Turkey haven’t gone well - whilst others like South Korea or Taiwan debatably ended up better).
Socialism doesn’t end up working very well no matter how it’s done, some of its proponents realised that and became social democrats and social liberals. Every country that has tried it has ended up poorer because of it.
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u/Quick-Estimate-5936 1d ago
The argument 'liberalism has failed because it allowed nationalism to rise, therefore nationalism is better', is a bizarrely illogical argument I see from time to time.
But agree that social democracy should be seperate on the polls.
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u/Summon001 1d ago
Those aren't mutually exclusive. Why no option for liberal socialism?
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u/Additional_Donut_35 1d ago
I mean which one do you favor most
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u/Summon001 1d ago
Neither as they work indipendently of one another.
One is about economics and the other one about state authority.
I don't wanna live in an authoritatian hell-hole but neither do I wanna live in a system where the people with all the money can become the authority.
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u/Firm-Rub9687 1d ago
Liberalism in the American or European sense of the word?
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u/Numerous-Actuator781 Australia 🇦🇺 1d ago
Liberalism in the textbook definition sense. The North American politics has kinda skewed liberalism to mean left wing politics when that is not the case at all. It is more so about economic policies and isn’t strictly defined by a left-wing divide.
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u/Jazzlike_Key_7614 1d ago
I'm not sure if liberal economic policies are compatible with ethnic and cultural preservation but that's what i would ideally pick
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u/CherryApprehensive70 15h ago
Weird question because you can't have liberalism without nationalism.
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u/itspronouncedbolonya 1d ago
Why's nationalism here, the other 2 are economic policies, that one's an ideology