r/NOLA • u/orleanstaco • 16h ago
Apartment complexes
Curious as to your thoughts on how apartment complexes are contributing to a culture shift in New Orleans.
Traditionally New Orleans didn't have big apartment complexes. Most people lived in one half a double, sharing space with roommates and interacting with neighbors via stoops and porches.
In the least decade many new apartment complexes have sprung up, where people seem to interact with the their neighbors less. Things like saying hello and goodnight or waving at your neighbor, seem to have been replaced by looking down and rushing inside a lobby.
There has also been an increase of people saying they are having a hard time making friends here. So many new people that move here are wanting to live in these complexes where they don't get to interact with long term residents or New Orleans culture.
What are your thoughts? Would you choose a complex over living in a double and being closer to your neighbors?
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u/babydingoeater 16h ago
I chose a double when moving here over a complex mostly because of the cost. I looked at a few complexes but would rather live in a place with a bit more space. I think for single folks or those used to amenities and don’t want to deal with the problems of an older house/apt they can still be great. You just need to make a bit more of an effort to make friends. It’s certainly less unique to New Orleans, but people gotta live somewhere.
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u/VillageOfMalo 14h ago
On the one hand, I agree, on the other hand we've had large densities of New Orleanians for nearly a hundred years. You frame it as a "choice" when... it's not really a choice for most and it's not surprising people would pick, say, the Mark Twain II over a Gert Town double.
Public housing projects like the old Magnolia and Lafitte, before they were replaced by "mixed-income" housing after Katrina were themselves bastions of culture. It's where bounce and New Orleans hip-hop came from. The idea that porch living is superior to public housing blocks is where we get "mixed-income" housing that might be better but holds much less people after Katrina than before.
Finally, the large apartment buildings along I-10 in the East and on the West Bank arose in the late 1970s and 1980s. That's nearly 50 years of culture.
I get the preservationist zeal to promote porch life and shotgun doubles. I wouldn't trade my life for anyone else's. But I also never had the economic incentives to choose an apartment building. Many are awful but many residents, say, in Metairie, are comfortable for people who want somewhere cheap of decent quality and care little to pay the premium for the rich, artistic and social lives that one gets on a more traditional block.
Like, some of them come with a pool, lol.
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u/orleanstaco 13h ago
My post is not in reference to the old projects, but places like Rice Mill, BonVi, warehouse district, etc. These types of housing were pretty much built in the last decade and didn't exist pre katrina and tend to attract mostly newcomers. Does it change the social fabric of the city?
The rest of the city has neighborhoods populated by both renters and homeowners who traditionally overlapped both Socio economically and racially.
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u/VillageOfMalo 13h ago edited 13h ago
I'm with you completely. And I prefer my neighborhood living in shotgun paradise to anything else in the world and hold on to my life tightly.
But there's a reason why these apartment building spring up and legit reasons, whether by choice or by necessity, why people live there. I'm always curious as to why and hope we can bring culture and arts to people where they are.
If you're not thinking about the Willows but instead, fancy-pants downtown living, my take is that... it's important the the CBD is a thriving neighborhood of people, that luxury developments soak up demand that would spill into my neighborhood and is somewhat an answer to our housing availability issues in an area with less long-standing residents.
So in short, I'm down for people who want that kind of life living elsewhere and feel that it actually preserves housing in my neighborhood for people who share my values about neighborhood life.
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u/orleanstaco 12h ago
I was just curious as to how that may change neighborhood, interaction and culture over time.
I have personally seen some things that made me wonder about it. There was a man drinking a tall boy on the sidewalk the other day and people that lived in shotguns/houses were waving and saying, hey pops, but when he arrived by a complex, two people who weren't together ran inside, terrified, as he said hello.
I just wondered about those types of interactions, when he lives around the corner, but they didn't know him. I see differences for sure and I was curious as to how that shapes a neighborhood.
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u/VillageOfMalo 12h ago
I am too, man, I'm just as curious. I personally do like knowing random people of varying social classes and circles in my day to day life. It's a special thing about New Orleans that happen few places anywhere else and way of life I've pledged to defend.
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u/Apprehensive-Bag-900 7h ago
The people we bought our house from 25 years ago also used to run inside anytime a person of color walked by- at least that's what everyone on the block told us. Lots of people are racist and classist
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u/Ok-Nature-5440 6h ago
I agree with you to an extent. But please elaborate on “ mixed income housing.”
I lived there for 25 years. The projects were absolutely abysmal. Particularly those on Louisiana street at Claiborne.
I lived at River Gardens. I loved the neighborhood, my neighbors, the entire community.
I can’t believe the amount of controversy when the city rebuilt this mess after Katrina. It’s so much better now. As well, this mixed income housing has ONLY succeeded in La. Not anywhere else.
I see it as a win win.1
u/VillageOfMalo 6h ago
Well, it was sold as "mixed income housing" when it was replacing the old projects. I'll go by your experience.
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u/Ok-Nature-5440 5h ago
I lived primarily in the Garden District. Great neighborhood. Not being boogie. I had to return to north shore to take care of mother.
When I returned to New Orleans, the prices in the Garden District had doubled. As well, if you are renting, your light bill might have been 3-400$, because those old buildings that are rentals are not well insulated.
I found apartments ridiculously priced.
I had never considered living in mixed income housing. I was so accepted by my neighbors, having lost 2 parents. This has been years ago, maybe things have changed. I had a new construction, spacious apartment, 900$, and a light bill never over 100$.
With all the shitty aspects of living in Louisiana, as far as I know, this is the only state that this has really been successful in.
At the time I was living there, there was a desperate push to improve New Orleans schools, and GPA.
I had several educators living on my block, brought into my hood from Atlanta. It was a package deal, if they didn’t perform, back to Atlanta. The schools went from D to B- within 2 years.
It is a sad commentary that so much talent left Nola in the 80s , for Atlanta. If it takes mixed income housing to bring em back, I’m all for it.•
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u/raditress 13h ago
My condo complex is very social. I have plenty of friends in the building and everyone at least says hi. I have two friends who live in other condo buildings that are even more social. Everyone hangs by the pool and there are building sponsored social events. So I don’t think your premise is correct.
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u/orleanstaco 13h ago
The question was more about do you interact with people outside of the residents of your complex on a regular basis?
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u/raditress 12h ago
I do at my local bar. My neighbors outside my complex aren’t the type to hang out on their porch. I pretty much never see any of my neighbors on their porch. But I have more than 100 people in my building to interact with.
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u/orleanstaco 12h ago
The thing about a large complex is it tends to attract people of the same socio-economic class, whereas a neighborhood bar night have more crossover. I think an example of this would be a place like Igor's back in the day where you might find the garden district having a beer with central city because they only lived a couple of blocks from one another and tend to have a relationship tied to a mutual bar or corner store or even grocery store, like breaux mart where they run into one another.
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u/crikeyforemphasis 12h ago
I live in a complex and regularly interact with 50 neighbors weekly! Not sure that generalizing apartment living is the real take here. I have 'hang out' sessions at the pool, walking pets, checking mail, during events. Far reaching beyond what a duplex offered me prior.
I still go outside and walk, and regularly meet nearby neighbors.
I don't think apartments necessarily have the social stigma you think they may. Are they changing the landscape? Sure.
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u/Hippy_Lynne 10h ago
I don't think it's the type of housing, I think it's the ratio of long-term residents versus those that only stay for a few years. As other people pointed out, there was a strong sense of community in the projects because people stayed in them for decades. I've lived in condos, doubles, and apartments and there was no real difference in knowing my neighbors between condos and doubles, but I barely interacted with my neighbors when I was in apartments.
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u/HelicaseHustle 5h ago
Whether people agree with your post or not, I am very glad to see it being said. Our human brains are not wired to look through a "big picture" lens innately. It takes an observation like this to trigger where we hold our perspectives. About 75% of people reading this will continue processing it as discrete events happening, like the people telling you that you can't blame apartment living on this. You aren't. I think you just used apartment complexes because that's the scene of your observation. The other 25% of us read this and we consciously shifted our perspective higher up so we can see our own version of your "apartment complex" observation. times like this, my brain can't always articulate into words an explanation of what i have observed, but my body feels that "shift" you mentioned. Like, are you pinpointing a specific thing that happened, or you feel it just overall the community? it's the latter for me and I think also for you. I'm a teacher and I try to make analogies for my students when an abstract comment like this is made.
Think of a closed system of nodes that are all connected somehow. You push one node up and 3 other nodes move in varying directions,. And then move a completely different node, and other nodes move in response. If you did this long enough, you would figure out how every node is connected into the system. it's when we get real life to that level that we begin seeing patterns and issues and can fix them. right now, the city has a bunch of nodes being triggered and other nodes reacting in response. The 90s were a different set of nodes. We were more insync back then. I was at LSu and my best friend lived in a quad on Dauphine. I would visit almost every weekend. he stayed in that same apartment for quite a few years. We knew the whole block and beyond. in fact, this was the only version of New Orleans life I knew at that time, and I thought all cities were like this. it's hard to explain, like we were all living our own versions of this same new orleans experience but in different bubbles, For festival/party weekends our extended friend pools from florida, mississippi, etc, would join us. it would sometimes bet 12 of us crashing in his studio apartment and nothing was off or felt our space was invaded because all of us were living our own version of this same experience. Those were a fun time. Fast forward to 2000, all of us were college graduates now, and all the extended friends moved here. It was a great time for me because all the extended friends were friends of mine initially and at some point, i invited them to visit nola and we'd stay at his place and they all became friends too. We could walk through any part of Marigny or French Quarter and engage with people in the street like they were long time friends of someone, but it wasn't. just some tourists getting pulled into our group like long time family.
Fast forward to 2005. I was at my dad's house for Katrina and in the aftermath and everything was knocked out, i brought my laptop into my car and plugged it into the lighter and was able to power it up. by some grace of god, our land lines were still working, so my dad found me a 50 foot phone line to run to my laptop, then i figure out some old school dial up actions, and I was back on the grid. Someone in the extended friends group had already made a group email for everyone to check in. I was the last one, so a huge cheer that all of us were ok. He came live at my place in baton rouge because that's where his company relocated. But it was Mardi Gras 2006 when it all hit me that our world had changed. About half of us made it to town for Mardi Gras but we had to stay at an outside friend's place. There was lots of tension, things were off, and spaces felt very invaded. When he chose to return to the city, the best he could find was a house in Chalmette to rent I'd come visit on weekends but i dont think we ever spent another weekend downtown again except for the occassional sunday fun day. none of the extended friends moved back,. I moved to Austin a few years, then back here in 2020 for covid. I've made 1 new friend and it's been 6 years.
Sorry for the long flight to get to my destination point here, but a side by side comparison of the city vibe then and now, I was the guy that brought together an extended group of friends to now being the guy going on solo adventures around the city and in the FQ.
I feel what OP is describing. others may not feel they are experiencing this phenomenon, but if you consciously expand your perspective and try to see it from a bigger picture, you probably are experiencing your version of it.
And so to come full circle, the reason i am glad to see this being brought up is because it at least starts bringing into the conscious mind of people who may not have been feeling it. I can't pinpoint what's happening. For one, the "social" scene is nowhere near the same now. Also, if you want to check in with someone, you just send a meme over text. Back then, you never let yourself separate from the group unless you were trying to sneak off, otherwise we may never find you.
On a positive note, i kinda feel a shift. And how crazy to think that it's babies of Katrina who are now the young adults about to take over the party scene,. being aware and cognizant of all this is so important because sadly, there are way too many elected people right now in full energy to destroy what's left of this culture. My life long agenda has always been to move when possible, but have a nola address by the time I hit 40. i made my goal when i moved back in 2020. but i am slowly getting overwhelmed by the ideas of all these data centers and space stations and how the wealth of those people is exploding while so many of the rest of us are struggling for the first times in our lives. I've considered a move to seattle out of self preservation. Even if you dont follow and participate actively in politics, you definitely struggle as a result of it. I'll end with this last exercise in shifting the mind frame to big picture . It would only take for 5 louisiana residents from different regions to meet privately on their own time and polish out a master plan and then take over the controls running this state right now. On a national level, stay in "big picture" mode. You are gonna realize we are currently being run by members of a completely different political party and can accurately refer to them as the Epstein party. Mike Johnson could not even make 1 facebook post about the progress the country has made in fighting crime without turning it into a divisive post about republicans and radical left. let us enjoy the low crime rates for at least a minute before spewing your radical-epstein agenda on us.
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u/MuseMariah 4h ago
I live in a high rise in the CBD and am closer with my neighbors than any other time in my life. Residents here say good morning and "have a good one" when entering and exiting the elevators. We have a thanksgiving potluck (thank goodness because thanksgiving is typically a lonely time for me) and mini-potlucks for Saints games. Not all apartment complexes are the same.
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u/greener_lantern 16h ago
Well that’s because if you move into a neighborhood with longtime residents it turns out you’re doing a gentrification
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u/Borsodi1961 15h ago
My criticism with apartment complexes is simply that they are luxury condos at great expense. Shit, we’ve had housing projects for generations. People were/are very social in those. It’s not necessarily the apartment complex. It’s the culture of people living in them. And the younger generations are just shifting, not just in New Orleans but everywhere it seems. This is a wider issue.