Does anyone know why there is never mobile data in shops?

[u/Forgotten_Dog1954]

I've been living in NL for over 4 years. My mobile data operator is Vodafone and normally I have 5G.

What I've been noticing quite a lot (plus others in my family, so it's definitely not a problem with just my phone/sim) is that whenever I enter any sort of shop, be that Albert Heijn, De Bijenkorf, etc. I still have 5G and 2-3 lines but absolutely everything stops working as soon as I enter.

A few days ago I entered a hair salon and while sitting in front of the window on the inside, absolutely nothing worked, but on the other side of that window (outside) everything worked perfectly.

Is there any reason behind this?

(edited for spelling)

[u/guardswords]

Weird. I never noticed a lack of mobile data in my local AH.

I can't go grocery shopping without WhatsApp. The grocery list gets updated while I'm in the store.

[u/Ishango → u/guardswords]

Achievement, 98% done. Oh excrement! Back to 50%.

[u/andersonimes → u/guardswords]

Depends on the AH. The AH in Museumplein has 0 reception, as an example - if you are able to get signal there, you'll need to share with the class what cell phone you are using.

[u/ObjectiveBall8768 → u/andersonimes]

AH Museumplein is underground 🤷🏼‍♀️

[u/andersonimes → u/ObjectiveBall8768]

Yeah, of course. It’s not a surprise it doesn’t work. Their KPN WiFi is excellent, though, so no complaints.

[u/lBarracudal → u/guardswords]

I used odido and swapped to kpn. While I like it better in general there now two rows in my local ah where I don't have internet connection anymore

[u/IamFarron]

it cannot possibly be because of the thick walls and lots of walls + products that disrupts radio waves

no sir it cannot be

[u/Forgotten_Dog1954 → u/IamFarron]

But in a pretty much same style house that I live in, I have perfect 5G connection…

[u/DBgirl83 → u/Forgotten_Dog1954]

I'm living in a rather new home and have zero 5g here and had to have extra WiFi points to be able to have internet on the 2nd floor. Many concrete buildings has this problem.

[u/papuga27 → u/DBgirl83]

It's a blessing really. Think about all the interference from your neighbours.

[u/mike117 → u/papuga27]

Interference? Unless your neighbors have a military grade communications jammer, this really doesn’t happen.

[u/IamFarron → u/Forgotten_Dog1954]

no you dont

its not even close to the same

[u/Zweefkees93 → u/Forgotten_Dog1954]

Walls on residential buildings are MUCH thinner. And there is a lot more infrastructure (sprinkler systems, wireing for fire detection, security systems, lighting, etc) in the walls and roof. or commercial buildings. Not to mention more rebar. (Larger, taller, heavier buildings).

5g is a very short wave and therefore easy to stop. So it doesn't take much

[u/Ishango → u/Zweefkees93]

You obviously haven't seen modern apartment complexes. Mine has just as much rebar, heavy infrastructure, and fire protection systems (like fire risers and alarm systems) as a commercial build. Despite all of that, I still get a perfectly decent 5G connection in my home. Wi-Fi without mesh is dramatic though.

[u/Zweefkees93 → u/Ishango]

Can't say that I have. I'm going based on what I've seen in a shop where I worked for years. In some places there were at least 5 thick walls between me and the outside air. 

I'd guess that in an apartment complex it would be one or two at the most (interior walls in appartment buildings usually are not structural and much thinner . 

5g is known for its lack of range, especially in structures. Its not hard to imagine that a commercial building is a lot harder on a signal then an appartment. Even when just counting concrete...

[u/CanisLupus92 → u/Ishango]

So you have a sprinkler system, with metal water lines that are known to interfere with wifi and mobile networks, in your house?

Cannot see I have ever seen sprinklers in a house’s ceiling.

[u/Mormacil → u/Forgotten_Dog1954]

Can it possibly be you're luckily and at home manage to get a properly reflected signal?

[u/DefinitionWilling796]

Copper (and not only) installations in the walls especially in old buildings can be blocking signal pretty well 

[u/Forgotten_Dog1954 → u/DefinitionWilling796]

But in a pretty much same style house as the haie salon that I live in, I have perfect 5G connection…

[u/when-i-was-your-ag3 → u/Forgotten_Dog1954]

That's a lie

[u/Infinite-Emu1326]

You must be onto something... Stay safe OP

https://giphy.com/gifs/GHycyakNPWSoo

[u/Loose_Biscotti9075]

Did you get the covid vaccination? That was needed to inject the 5g chip and have the technology work flawlessly

[u/Picard_III]

Big buildings, and also many shops in the city centres need to have their own antennas for 5G (similar thing like our WiFi repeaters at home), and very often they don't, this happened in Amare in Den Haag for the first year after they opened it and forgot to out it there, it's building with many offices so it was ridiculous that it didn't work...another solution is (regular) calling over WiFi, but I understand customers don't have/don't want to use WiFi signal of random businesses

[u/Drakaner]

I still keep my phone on prefer 4G and never had issues. 5G uses a shorter spectrum than 3G/4G and needs way more antenna density to provide a good/excellent signal (hence the problem with signal indoor). Normally the phone should automatically switch to 4G/3G, but if that doesn't happen (because it has a little bit of 5G reception) your issue appears.

[u/ajeldel]

Do you have wifi on? The WiFi in AH requires you to agree with their terms and conditions. It is a separate window. Until you click oke there it will not work.

[u/Forgotten_Dog1954 → u/ajeldel]

It's the same in any shop regardless of wifi being on or off

[u/Satann_]

My provider is KPN and I even have it at home. It’s so annoying

[u/AppropriateAge6861 → u/Satann_]

Same. KPN seems to be crap. I have better signal on the second foreign sim in roaming than KPN gets even outside.

[u/Old_Idea4566]

I recently had this issue with a Gemeente office; I needed to download some form or upload something but I couldn't do it because no connection. That particular gemeente office did not provide WIFI due to cyber security reasons (they said) so everyime I had to walk outisde to get something done, go back in to check, walk back outisde to do another thing.

idiotic.

[u/His-tor-ical-bigdik]

This happened when I had Vodafone and KPN...I now have Odido and I haven't noticed it happening.

[u/ah5178]

This is why I hate restaurants that want you to scan a QR code, rather than giving out physical menu's.

[u/Primary_Music_7430]

Ah heeft normaal gesproken wifi. Ik gok dat veel van hun locaties(gebeurt vaak bij mij bij verschillende ahs) wifi hebben om dit tegen te gaan.

[u/roffadude]

Its one big faraday cage... what do you expect.

[u/andersonimes]

It is of course because the buildings are blocking the signal. The other issue is that it seems less common for large buildings to have femtocells or picocells (wireless repeaters scoped to a building) whereas it seemed very common in the US where I'm from originally. It was relatively rare to have reception issues in parking garages there compared to NL.

Use free wifi. Enjoy the brief moment living almost entirely in the analog world.

[u/Milefulness]

I rarely notice this in the supermarket, but I do notice in large metal buildings (like IKEA, mediamarkt, etc).

[u/Hertje73]

never had this problem.. well last 10 years at least..

[u/iCqmboYou_]

Quite weird. Never had this happen before, sure your phone is good? My mobile data is super reliable wherever i am, pixel 9 pro with KPN

[u/CrossBleedSignal]

Because of the construction of the buildings. I have the same in my own house. As soon as I pass the front door, 5G reception drops to zero.

[u/Joske_Vermeulen_303]

So you don't go online to compare prices duh

[u/Jlx_27]

Not unheard of indeed, but, a lot of shops have free WiFi anyway.

[u/ObjectiveBall8768]

If it is a larger shop that offers free WiFi, they want you to use that because they want to track their customers. If it's a smaller shop, cafe or restaurant, it could be due to the building and/or location hindering reception.

[u/Darth_050]

I never experienced this. I can pricewatch the shit out of anything I see in Mediamarkt. I am on my phone alle the time in Jumbo and AH. Inside HEMA my internet works just fine.

[u/Abeyita]

I never had this problem. My data works everywhere.

[u/Able-Feeling-7845]

Never had this problem. I have Odido

[u/Rezolutny_Delfinek]

I have a similar issue but only in Primark 😂

[u/Poesnee]

Somebody cursed your bloodline obviously.

[u/lambda_expression]

Can't say that ever happened to me, works just fine (Vodafone). I can only imagine it has to do with the specific buildings you frequent.

Some of the big chains operate free wifi hotspots in their stores btw so if this is a persistent problem maybe try to connect to that.

[u/Effective-Paper-6536]

Select manually 4G on your phone when indoors, they have a better coverage than the oversold 5G

[u/Nothing-to_see_hr]

In shops like AH and the Bijenkorf you can normally connect via wifi

[u/WhireBeard112 → u/Nothing-to_see_hr]

Don't do that though...

[u/sapani9077]

Count your blessings you are protected from covid in shops

[u/Lodau]

Because you set your phobe to connect to their wifi and need to accept their terms.  

Turn off wifi and you should be ok (depending on what bunkercomplex you're in) 

[u/SupposablyAtTheZoo]

Set your phone to 4g preferred and it's gonna do a lot better. You don't really need 5g.

[u/Forgotten_Dog1954 → u/SupposablyAtTheZoo]

Really? I recently traveled back to my homeland for a few weeks, and only 4G was available there. It felt slower and less 'smooth' than 5G here in NL. Plus before my current phone (iPhone 13) I had an iPhone 10 (4G only) and it was the same problem.

[u/SupposablyAtTheZoo → u/Forgotten_Dog1954]

4g has much further reach than 5g. On average you'll have better coverage with 4g, especially inside buildings. Simply try it.

[u/No_Promise1186]

Well just go to Albert Heijn . It’s there at the counter out they will load it on for you . Or by it in Arabic phone shops or online

[u/Forgotten_Dog1954 → u/No_Promise1186]

Sorry, buy what? Any chance you got the wrong thread?

[u/KaelonR → u/Forgotten_Dog1954]

I think this person thought you were trying to buy vouchers to top up a prepaid sim card. The title can be interpreted that way.

As for your original question, 5G data is transmitted on two frequency bands, a high-frequency band that has high bandwidth and can transmit a lot of data simultaneously (to serve lots of people) but is very bad at penetrating solid objects, and a low-frequency band that has less bandwidth(=less data capacity) but is better at getting through solid objects.

Vodafone originally focused more on high frequency bands, and their rollout of low frequency data has been lagging behind compared to KPN and Odido. This probably is a big contributor in your area.

Something that might also be affecting this, is that with modern building isolation materials, and the thicker glass in windows being used nowadays in order to isolate buildings better and retain heat, it's becoming increasingly difficult for mobile data (and all sorts of radio waves) to get through the walls to reach inside.

[u/Traditional-Theme696]

During my apprenticeship in Germany I learned that they use jammers so you don’t get distracted and take a look at really everything.

[u/gotzapai → u/Traditional-Theme696]

It ilegal if they do that.

You need to have unrestricted access to the GSM network to call 112 in case of emergency.

[u/Traditional-Theme696 → u/gotzapai]

Tbh I’ve never tried calling 112/110 (Germany) in a supermarket. Might be the case that it works. Nonetheless this is what we learned in school for the job. Many supermarkets and discounters in Germany do it but offer a WiFi as alternative as well but collect data through it.

Not sure if it’s illegal due to your reasoning in Germany though.