r/Overseas_Pakistani Oct 13 '23

Weekend Thread | ہفتہ وار تبادلۂ خیال /r/Overseas_Pakistani Weekend thread (October 13, 2023)

3 Upvotes

This is our weekend thread. Feel free to share how your week went, what's on your mind, or anything else.

It doesn't even have to be relevant to the theme of this subreddit,but please keep the discussions civil as all other rules are enforced.

Lastly, please don't forget to check out our Twitter . Thank you!


r/Overseas_Pakistani Feb 20 '22

Immigration | مہاجرت و سفر NICOPs and Pakistani Citizenship

42 Upvotes

TL;DR - if you have a NICOP, you are a Pakistani citizen, even if you never set foot in Pakistan. If you were ever Pakistani citizen, then more then likely, you probably still are. If you don't want to be a Pakistani citizen, you have to go through a procedure to surrender it. Read on for more details.

I've seen a lot of posts over the years that discuss NICOPs and Pakistani citizenship. Every few weeks, someone asks if having a NICOP is Pakistani citizenship. I've also met many Pakistanis (overseas and within Pakistan) that don't understand how citizenship in Pakistan works for those who go or are overseas.

Contrary to what many people think, Pakistani citizenship is not automatically voided when a Pakistani naturalizes in another country. Even if your oath of naturalization says that you surrender all foreign allegiances, the citizenship remains.

Many older Pakistanis, especially those who left Pakistan in the 1960s-1980s believe that their Pakistani citizenship was voided when they became British/Canadian/American, etc. This is not true per current Pakistani law. They simply don't have active IDs/passports. Just like a person born in the US or Canada. The person is a citizen even if they have no passport. Or, a child born in Pakistan without a B-Form, they are still Pakistani.

Pakistani citizenship can only be lost if one goes to a Pakistani consulate/embassy and goes through a formal renunciation process. This is not automatic, and most people don't do it because they simply don't need to or care to. It's not a complicated process, but it's still it's own, separate process. Fill out forms, surrender passport and ID, pay fees, etc. This is usually done by Pakistanis who naturalized in countries that don't allow dual citizenship, such as Germany, Spain, and (previously) Norway, but anyone can do it if they want.

Now, the confusion occurs because Pakistan will grant a visa to a UK/US/CAN citizen even if that person also has Pakistani citizenship. It's counterintuitive to need a visa to travel to a country in which you are a citizen, which is why many think "how could I still have Pakistani citizenship if I got a visa?". Pakistan, however, will allow a Pakistani citizen to travel to Pakistan on a foreign passport with a visa, hence the widespread confusion.

So here is where the NICOP comes in. NICOP stands for National Identity Card for Overseas Pakistanis. The card gives visa free travel, right to have a bank account, etc. It also gives the right to vote. This card is proof of Pakistani citizenship, and can be used to get a Pakistani passport if desired. Many people think this is just for dual citizens, but some Pakistanis working or studying abroad also have NICOPs even if they are only Pakistani.

Note that the new NICOP looks just like a Smart CNIC, but the "country of stay" will not be Pakistan, and the card will say "the holder is entitled to visa free entry" (something to this effect). Old NICOPs actually said "National Identity Card for Overseas Pakistanis" on them, but Smart NICOPs do not, so there is some confusion nowadays (people thinking that they have an NIC and not a NICOP)

Here is the biggest place where many people get confused. Many people in the 2nd, 3rd, and now 4th generation born abread have also received NICOP cards even if they were born with another citizenship (UK, CAN, US, etc). They are often under the impression that this is just a "card in place of a visa". "I don't have Pakistani Citizenship, that's just an ID". Not true. By getting a NICOP, you are basically registered as a Pakistani citizen who doesn't reside in Pakistan.

Other ways you could be still be a Pakistani citizen and not know it, assuming formal renunciation process was not done:

  1. If you were born in Pakistan and naturalized elsewhere, you are a dual citizen
  2. If you have, or ever had a NICOP, CNIC, CRC, B-form, you are a dual citizen
  3. If your birth was registered at the Pakistani consulate (Form S, or similar), then you would be a dual citizen
  4. If you ever held a Pakistani passport, you are a dual citizen.
  5. If you were listed as a child on your parents' Pakistani passport, you are a dual citizen. (In the old days, kids didn't have their own passports and travelled on their parent's passport)
  6. You were registered as a Pakistani citizen because your parents became Pakistani and applied for it on your behalf (Form M) - not common, but legally possible.

Pakistan does have another card, Pakistan Origin Card (POC), which grants visa free travel and a few other privileges. This card, however, is not Pakistani citizenship. So those who wish to travel often to Pakistan and don't want a visa, but also don't want a NICOP, may find the POC appealing.

Acquiring, renouncing, and/or retaining citizenship is a personal choice. This post was simply written to clarify the misunderstanding that "NICOP isn't citizenship" (again, NICOP is proof of citizenship).

Edit: It is a common misconception that Pakistani citizenship is only given to those who are "desi", Muslim, or those whose parents are Pakistani. This is not true. There are Pakistani citizens who are Hindu, Sikh, Christian, Buddhist, Ahmadi ,etc. "Desi" is a somewhat subjective term as well.

The Pakistan Citizenship Act grants citizenship to anyone born in Pakistan, even if the parents are non Pakistani. The only exception is for children of diplomats (which is not uncommon). There is no exception for refugees or even those who are in transit. This has been argued in court many times. So yes, that means that technically those who are of Afghani, Bengali, or Rohingya descent but born in Pakistan are technically citizens (there are many individual court cases, no class action case though). Of course the reality on the ground is different. Just as anyone born in the US or Canada is a citizen (children of refugees too), the same applies in Pakistan. People should be aware of this and not deny their fellow citizens their rights (don't get me started about the hypocrisy).


r/Overseas_Pakistani 11h ago

Finance | معاشی Property purchase through Roshan Digital Account (RDA) - Pay Order Process

5 Upvotes

Salam everyone,

I live in the UK and am buying a DHA plot costing above 1.3 Crore PKR. The plot purchase will take place in my absence and my father will have a Special Power of Attorney (SPA) to complete the physical transfer at the DHA office on my behalf, as I cannot travel to Pakistan.

I have a UBL RDA that I rarely use, but wondering if I should use it for this transaction.

We need to pay the seller in the form of pay order. I am deciding between two options:

  • Option 1: I transfer funds from the UK directly to my father’s local bank account (MCB). He gets the Pay Order issued under his name/account and hands it to the seller on the payment date.
  • Option 2: I transfer funds from the UK to my own UBL RDA. My UBL Relationship Manager (RM) says I can fill out an authorization form, provide the seller/beneficiary details and my father's CNIC, and UBL will authorize my father to collect the Pay Order from the branch on my behalf.

My father prefers Option 2 to keep a clear bank trail in my name. However, my concern with Option 2 is any last minute unexpected branch/compliance delay or refusal in issuing the pay order in my absence. In this case, I risk failing to meet payment deadline and losing the advance deposit/biana that I have already paid (1.6m PKR).

For those who have bought property in Pakistan through an RDA while overseas:

  1. Did you transfer funds to a family member's (or a trusted person) account or issue the Pay Order directly through your own RDA?
  2. If you issued a Pay Order through your RDA via a representative, how smooth was the bank/branch pickup process?

Would like to hear your experiences and advice!


r/Overseas_Pakistani 7h ago

Miscellaneous | مزید Work visa for pakistani applicant ?

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1 Upvotes

r/Overseas_Pakistani 11h ago

Immigration | مہاجرت و سفر Dubai resident sponsoring husband from Pakistan – MRC attestation & passport name change?

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1 Upvotes

r/Overseas_Pakistani 1d ago

Miscellaneous | مزید Coping with loneliness and homesickness

2 Upvotes

How you guys deal with homesickness and loneliness? I moved to Germany 2 years ago, everyday i feel homesick, moreover i used to be sportsman back home. Due to an accident i left cricket. I have represented Karachi at under 19 and under 16 level that guilt of not doing what i
Love eat me everyday.


r/Overseas_Pakistani 1d ago

Immigration | مہاجرت و سفر My husband wants to move abroad for a better future and my heart doesn’t agree.

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2 Upvotes

r/Overseas_Pakistani 1d ago

Careers & Education | تعلیم و پیشہ I need to escape

0 Upvotes

I need to escape from this country straight saying I've been trying with my education and everything that comes to my way is scam so let's see if this overseases Pakistani community someone can help me


r/Overseas_Pakistani 3d ago

META Why do a lot of overseas Pakistanis romanticize Pakistan, is it cuz they don't have to live here anymore?

15 Upvotes

Does Pakistan looks completely different when you're living abroad like u open the news here and it's rape cases, murders, harassment, violence, and people treating each other horribly, like the blatant abuse of power that happens here is just insane and this is only getting worse each day btw as well as so many other things that u probably won't even believe at first like the country just keeps getting darker and darker, people have to go through so much here.

Yet when most foreigners visit or overseas pakistanis who've spend considerable time abroad, they only talk about the hospitality, food, warmth etc cuz thats what everyone gives them so they dont really get an actual idea which is obviously good for promoting this country, but like what even r we truly promoting, hypocrisy? I feel like most people are in a bubble of their own.

People who left the country obviously left for good reasons right, so why is that some of them completely have a change of perception or idk try to act like they've changed now only after leaving when the sad reality is, the people that r living here, u literally never know when you'd become a statistic or would be on the receiving end of a viral or controversial news report where somebody utilized their power to actually dehumanize u, end u or rape u.

so like whats the reason for this weird fascination, the only plausible reason I see is the fact that most people have family's here so they're sort of connected to them hence, they're a bit more emotional about pakistan so hypothetically, if u had no family in Pakistan and u left, would the overseas people that blindly glaze pakistan and im not referring to every overseas Pakistani, u probably yourself would know people like this who just glaze the country whilst having one eye closed, will they still pretend to do the same thing if they had 0 family members or relatives left in Pakistan?


r/Overseas_Pakistani 3d ago

Immigration | مہاجرت و سفر Protector stamp needed for EU Residence Permit?

0 Upvotes

Do I need to get a protector stamp if I have a EU residence permit (Dutch Kennismigrant/Highly Skilled Migrant)? I did not get this while I was in Pakistan, but when I was in the US. This would be the first time I'm travelling to Pakistan after having an EU residence permit.


r/Overseas_Pakistani 3d ago

Finance | معاشی What is the best way to send money from UAE to PAK

0 Upvotes

Basically my first time sending sm1 money in Pakistan any apps that provide the highest payouts, can anyone help me out?


r/Overseas_Pakistani 5d ago

Careers & Education | تعلیم و پیشہ Pakistanis living in Canada, how is your life?

5 Upvotes

Salaam everyone,

I’m seriously considering moving to Canada for a master's program and would love some honest advice from my fellow Pakistanis who have already made the move.

My background. I'm a 3D artist with 8 years of experience, and after completing my master's. My plan is to work in Canada and apply for PR.

If there are any media-related people in Canada. Please share your experience here.

What is the one thing you wish you knew before coming to Canada?

Let's have a reality-based discussion; welcome to share your experiences as well.

Your advice would be helpful.

Thanks!


r/Overseas_Pakistani 5d ago

Immigration | مہاجرت و سفر Can an American-Indian Travel to Pakistan safely?(With friend)

6 Upvotes

Alright to start this off. I am not religious nor do I follow a religion. But the reason I'm asking this question on here is because me and one of my best friends, who's from Pakistan, are planning to visit South Asian and Central Asian countries after we graduate university in 2028. He told me there could be a possibility for me getting sent back to the united states or something. I am an American Indian, meaning my parents are Indian immigrants, and I was born in the States. I was wondering, would it be feasible for me to come visit the country to see what it's like? Mind you guys, I have already been to India in the past, so I don't know how that would affect it, but I was just wondering if it would be safe for me personally to go with my friend who is a Pakistani American, meaning his parents are from Pakistan but he was born in America. And when we do go, we're not planning to go for more than two weeks just in Pakistan since we're trying to go to other Central Asian 'STAN' countries as well, ex. Kyrgyzstan, Tajikistan, Turkmenistan, Uzbekistan. We probably won't be able to go to all of the ones I mentioned, but we want to go to at least 2-3 of those. Definitely Uzbekistan though. But that's besides the point. I was just wondering, how would I get treated in Pakistan if they were to learn that I'm ethnically Indian? Would I get detained by border security or something as soon as we are in immigrations? Again, I don't really know or care about the beef between India and Pakistan because I consider myself American, just like my other friend who I'm planning to travel with.


r/Overseas_Pakistani 6d ago

Careers & Education | تعلیم و پیشہ Anyone doing NCUK IFY at ICE Pakistan?

1 Upvotes

Hey, is anyone here currently doing NCUK IFY at ICE Pakistan or planning to join?

I’m thinking about applying for the program and wanted to know how your experience has been so far. How are the teachers, workload, exams, and overall environment?

Also, how is the process after completing IFY? Like university applications, support from ICE, and getting into NCUK partner universities.

Would really appreciate if someone who’s already doing it or has completed it could share their experience.

Thanks!


r/Overseas_Pakistani 6d ago

Miscellaneous | مزید UAE Employment Visa

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1 Upvotes

r/Overseas_Pakistani 8d ago

Immigration | مہاجرت و سفر Advice from overseas Pakistani students who are working white collar/in top quality institutions.

0 Upvotes

So im an 18y/o student in a british university enrolled in Computer science for bachelors program. My visa arrived late so they transferred me to the next semester till then I had a few free months. Now there’s just one month left (I’m working rn in a restaurant) and all this time I was curious about how the british education system is gonna look like and turnout for me.

Coming from an Fsc background where “ratta system” is practiced religiously I’m not so sure what’s gonna happen to my studies here although I do like to research and read about topics im interested in but i don’t think im creative enough. I’ve heard from a few people that foreign education system is very manageable since you don’t have to write tons of assignments and go to university 5-6x a week unless ur in medical. So for someone like me who likes to research,read, got his ratta effect down because of the gap year I took, developed creative presentation skills, worked in sales for a few months before I came here in a US based call center so I know how to sell and present myself as a person.

How hard is it to ace exams, assignments, quizzes, maintain a GPA of 3.5+??? Since I want to aim for a prestigious institute for masters program after this.

Also about erasmus student exchange program should I really aim for it? What I believe is that If i go for it, its gonna be a hella experience for in a new country for six or twelve months, on stipend, just studies and twenty hours work only if i want extra money.

Also I don’t sit in desis and keep distance from most of them since many desis are negative so i dont want their negative experiences to have any effect on me. Aisa ni ke bilkul he door but jo banda sahi lgy ussi se baat cheet agay rakhta aur connection bnata.

Kheir I want to assimilate in their culture too. Not drinking type stuff. I’m doing the basics like keep my religious, cultural beliefs to myself. I’ve received compliments about my hygiene from goras at my workplace bcs I keep myself groomed always but what are the actual concrete things I must adapt that new coming desis don’t.

Advices from all the overseas Pakistanis that are there for years and see new desis making rookie mistakes are encouraged.


r/Overseas_Pakistani 9d ago

Miscellaneous | مزید Looking for recommendations

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1 Upvotes

Hello,

I need to get one of my parents a continuous glucose monitor patch and was wondering if the Play Store has an app that could monitor it. Freestyle Libre app is available on the US and when you wear the patch on arm, you get real time readings. Is there something similar for people in Pakistan? Or are there any patch users who are able to use a similar app? Freestyle patches are available in Pakistan but how are the glucose readings monitored if the app isn’t available on Pak Playstore

Need recommendations.


r/Overseas_Pakistani 9d ago

Stories | داستاں Hey Anyone from Estonia?

1 Upvotes

Just moved abroad for my studies and honestly didn’t expect the loneliness to hit this hard Everything is new, but Im slowly realizing how difficult it is to build a social circle from scratch

Anyone else going through the same thing? How did you meet people and actually make friends abroad?


r/Overseas_Pakistani 9d ago

Careers & Education | تعلیم و پیشہ 17F and I can help you out

5 Upvotes

Up for any legal gigs or part time work. I can help you manage your schedule, research work, I have excel Microsoft word skills as well. I can speak english and create assignments for you. Homework uni work I’ll do it.
Dm me with what you need+your budget


r/Overseas_Pakistani 10d ago

Immigration | مہاجرت و سفر Pakistani Visas getting cancelled?

3 Upvotes

Hi guys,

Is it true that UAE residence visas are being cancelled for people travelling to Pakistan without any specific reason, even though there’s no official announcement about it? Has anyone recently experienced this or knows someone who did?


r/Overseas_Pakistani 10d ago

Immigration | مہاجرت و سفر Oman Work Visa

1 Upvotes

Hi

I'm in the hiring process of job in oman. My chances look bright as I have been referred, but should I get my hopes up? Like what is the work visa situation in Oman for Pakistanis these days? Is it the same as UAE or other Gulf states?

Any personal or known experiences?


r/Overseas_Pakistani 10d ago

Miscellaneous | مزید A question to pakistanis in Melbourne, Australia

0 Upvotes

Tldr: is it okay for ppl to think a man to be perfect and extremely good even after knowing he harbors negative thoughts (of killing towards specific strata) or saying that men are allowed to force women?

All muslin men in Melbourne are mostly like this (mentioned above)?

Fully detailed story
Now i was married to my husband forcefully a while back, (this he knows) and my family is extremely abusive as well as powerful (the kinda who tries to kill u on a random Tuesday and police wont write an fir, in an arranged setting he married me, i tried telling him but he wouldn't even reply claiming he was busy for days or weeks. And his family rushed everything and did everything within a month

Ive been talking to him for a while his main beliefs are

Women or men who go thru shit (rape, abuse) should be feminist only (logic aurat march is bad and nothing is wrong with women rights in Pakistan)

Men should force their own women to observe daily islamic principles and parda and namaz while i believe religion is personal and suggestions can be made but no one can be or should be forced

He would torture me if i tell anything related to him or including him to any frnd or even if i say we see a relationship therapist or counselor since as per his logic relationships shouldn't be talked to anyone other then the spouses. But he often threatens me of telling everything to his father which he knows will result in him talking to my father and him in turn killing me (tbh sounds gud)

Any person who even talks about lgbtq or accepting it should be killed. He believes sexuality is a choice. Im a therapist by profession so i cannot endorse such behaviors or judge them while knowing the scientific evidence behind everything and i believe their religion is a matter with God as long as theyre not forcing anyone

Oh he also considers lgbtq ppl to be consider pedophiles and if i point out a difference (aka force) since ive gone thru csa myself he will get extremely mad

He believes im trying to separate him from his family when i said i wont live longterm with his family alone without him. He got mad and said thats how it happens and he wont leave me but hell force me to live with his family and that i dont have a choice (his parents are good ppl but they live in village where they invite ppl who ruin ur self esteem, his aunt came to visit me for the 1st time and called me alot of names which basically meant messy homeless and nomad and fckd up and his family didnt even react neither did he) also im not living with his family for a personal reason currently

Now he has a frnd circle of almost 30 men , he often keeps me on call to speak to them to show me how perfect he is , everyone just tells him how amazing he is and how great of a person he is and any woman will be lucky to have him, ik his 2 frndz who have been thru csa consider him the same, his family and my family considers him perfect too. He lives with a mindset that he can do no wrong and i am the worst person on the planet but since marriage is permanent or maybe he knows im communicative and expressive be isn't leaving me

I dont understand this , even if anyone random asks my frndz theyll tell my flaws as well as good deeds but his doesn't (at least the ones in Australia) His family doesn't knows he does drugs once in a blue moon and i dont judge him for it but i dont see how that fits the description of perfect which his frnd do

I have a lot of trauma that gets me triggered alot but im doing shadow work as well as other things i cant leave. I actively try to work on my behaviors and try to amend what i do and say or apologize if needed , he knows i have trauma but he thinks religion will solve it or if i just let it go it will be fine

Now i cant leave him or do anything but for the clarity of my mind , is he a gud human?

Any questions asked will be edited and replied in the post, neither in comments nor in dms


r/Overseas_Pakistani 10d ago

Miscellaneous | مزید Reliable Real Estate Agent Suggestions

1 Upvotes

Hey everyone

I'm looking to sell a property in Multan by the end of the year but I'd like to do it through a reliable and legit real estate agent. the one I have right now is very slow and is trying to take advantage of me not being physically present in Pakistan.

Does anyone have any suggestions or advice?

Thank you


r/Overseas_Pakistani 12d ago

Remittance | ترسیل رقم Anyone sending money in RDA from Ireland?

0 Upvotes

Is anyone sending money to RDA from Ireland? What is the process, I tried to do it over revolute but the money got reversed back to my account...


r/Overseas_Pakistani 12d ago

Miscellaneous | مزید Hajj in Mina Zone 1

1 Upvotes

Assalam u Alaikum!

I am looking to connect with someone who has performed Hajj in Mina Zone 1 to discuss their 10 and 11 Zilhajj experience. I hope I find someone