r/PoliticalCompassMemes • u/RainbowGhostMew - Lib-Center • 1d ago
Beatings will continue until morale improves.
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u/Camelsandham - Lib-Center 1d ago
Broke: We need them for AI
Woke: We need more cloud storage for our flock cameras
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u/PoliticsIsDepressing - Lib-Center 1d ago
40,000 new flock cameras nationwide in the last three months!
https://www.yahoo.com/news/us/articles/40-000-flock-cameras-tied-220900877.html
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u/Dodo_Baron - Left 1d ago edited 1d ago
some near playgrounds and pools
Damn the Epstein politicians strikes again
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u/RagePoop - Left 21h ago
Flock VP watches flock camera situated at playground with a splash pad more than any other camera.
https://jasonhunyar.substack.com/p/flock-vp-watched-recordings-from
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u/Dodo_Baron - Left 1d ago
C'mon now the anti woke love their flock cameras too. That's cross compass unity baby
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u/Camelsandham - Lib-Center 1d ago
I realize using “woke” might be applied differently here but it was unintentional
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u/Unabashed-Citron4854 - Centrist 1d ago
I just want some control over my neighborhood.
Welp, the abundance movement had a nice 12 month run but, somehow, the NIMBYs have returned.
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u/insidiouspoundcake - Centrist 1d ago
Returned? They never left. This is why the West has no state capacity any more - vetocracy.
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u/GildSkiss - Lib-Right 1d ago
"I'd love to demolish this neighborhood to build high density housing but I would never ever ever ever live next to a computer."
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u/Unabashed-Citron4854 - Centrist 1d ago
“We should build things in this country but I will never ever ever allow an industrial building in my community that uses electricity or water, will increase traffic, or will make noise.”
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u/Paledonn - Centrist 1d ago
There are literally rust belt towns that voted for Trump because they wanted to bring back American manufacturing but then threw a hissy fit when actual manufacturers tried to locate there. NPR has a wild podcast episode about one of them that makes you want to pull your hair out.
How tf is America supposed to become a manufacturing powerhouse again when it is nigh impossible to build a factory here? Even if you do eventually get to build, it'll only be after at least a year of expensive and redundant delays, public hearings, administrative reviews, etcetera
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u/Abject_Credit7825 - Right 15h ago
You see this with everything, people want affordable housing but don't want any new apartments or condos built in their neighborhood, they want jobs ut don't want companies to put in factories or offices, they want cheaper electricity but complain about any new infrastructure.
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u/TheBlackBaron - Lib-Right 10h ago
What people want is price controls, wage controls, and mass redistribution. My opinion is that in the spirit of democracy, we should give it to them, good and hard.
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u/ChipKellysShoeStore - Lib-Right 15h ago
What’s the name of the podcast/episode? Would love to listen to it?
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u/Willing_Activity_855 - Right 15h ago
https://www.npr.org/2025/06/06/1253756223/manufacturing-ev-china-battery-factory
"the chinese are taking jobs away from americans, we have no manufacturing, REEEEEE" - americans
chinese company wants to invest in manufacturing jobs in the USA
"REEEE NO CHINESE MANUFACTURING JOBS CAN COME HERE REEEEE" - americans
if i was dictator i would bring wrath and ruin to these people.
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u/Plane_Suggestion_189 - Centrist 1d ago edited 1d ago
"You're poor and backwards if you don't want datacenters!"
-47th President of the United States of America.
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u/Hungry_Inevitable663 - Lib-Right 1d ago
Poor, backwards, and with clean drinking water mmmmm yummy.
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u/DerGovernator - Lib-Center 1d ago
Shouldn't we be putting these in those burned out industrial husk cities in the Rust Belt? Lots of cheap land, places that need jobs, and already inside an existing power grid.
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u/shittycomputerguy - Auth-Center 20h ago
Put a data center next to the houses of those on the councils voting for them. See how quickly towns suddenly stop voting for data centers.
Data centers don't really bring a lot of jobs in, once they're built, right?
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u/P00ped_My_Pants - Lib-Center 1d ago edited 1d ago
It feels like American citizens are in a car dealership and we’re being sales-pressured into buying extended warranties and shit. “You don’t want China to win, do you?? =))))))”
well, not really, but also we shouldn’t rush into building shit without understanding the full pros and cons. And honestly, Trump has proven to be such a corrupt piece of shit that I’m immediately very suspicious of anything he advocates for. He almost certainly has a lot of money tied in business deals around data centers
I’m open to the discussion but I’m happy that people are pushing against being pressured into it. If that means we “lose” to China, then so be it. The US needs a political reset anyway
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u/undreamedgore - Left 1d ago
I disagree wktht he final couple lines. Losing to China means a permanent end to American hegemony and with it any real American importantance.
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u/Immense_Cargo - Lib-Center 1d ago
That’s already happening because we’ve weaponized the dollar.
Freezing dollar-denominated assets of Russia and Iran, and especially Biden locking Russia out of the Swift system, made everyone apprehensive about holding US currency and bonds, and ever since then, the world has started transitioning away from our currency and the coercion that comes with it.
Just this year, the Global Reserve Currency flipped: there are now more global reserves held in physical gold than in U.S. treasuries.
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u/Sad_Significance_568 - Auth-Center 1d ago
American hegemony is not threatened by lack of data centers. It is threatened by attacks on education and the working class and pointless wars that are moving everyone away from the instability of oil.
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u/Willing_Activity_855 - Right 15h ago
It is threatened by attacks on education
we spend more on education k-12 than 99% of countries. in baltimore we spend $24,000 per student each year which gives them a student literacy proficiency rate of 32.9%.
in fucking rural utah they spend $11,000 and have a student literacy proficiency rate of 53.3%
for reference finland spends around $12,000 per student - not including higher ed. of course because i didnt include higher end in the US examples.
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u/Pleasant_Tangelo3340 - Centrist 1d ago
Yeah we have much more to lose than any country, us being overtaken by China won’t fix any of the problems we already have and will just exacerbate whatever we’re suffering from
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u/P00ped_My_Pants - Lib-Center 1d ago
It hardly means a “permanent” end but temporary? Yes
That said, electing Trump a second time effectively put the nail in the coffin. The US is so fucked in terms of national identity and having a trustworthy government. As an example, Trump has single handedly started a dumb war with Iran and there’s nothing anyone else in the country can do about it
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u/Thorn14 - Left 1d ago
This. We're in a pointless war we already lost and are in a pointless trade war with Canada, and America's word no longer bears any weight. We threw away all our soft power for...what?
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u/Pleasant_Tangelo3340 - Centrist 1d ago
To piss off the democrats and enrich his buddies. That’s it. Traitors is what they are
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u/undreamedgore - Left 1d ago
Well for himself? Money, ego and pride.
For his supporters? The promise of a better economy, a return of industry and social/economic stablity at a higher QoL.
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u/undreamedgore - Left 1d ago
We only ever achieved hegemony by fluke. It required the rest of the planet both blowing itself up and owing us money. We don't have the raw manpower to compete with China or even India if they got their shit together. They can source more genius, source more workers. How can we compete with that?
The money isn't flowing in like it used to. Our industry is fucked, our science base is fucked, entertainment is holding, but for how long?
If we lose it, our economy crumbles. Our lives will be universally ruined. As will our pride, and culture.
With all that, there are good odds our government implodes. Especially thanks to Trump fucking things up more. If our government pops, our nation goes with it, because the whole thing is an artificial construct barely being maintained with propaganda and civic identity. Real nations are regional.
After some debatable degree of all that, how do you expect usnto realistically become hegemons again? There are chunks of Africa who could finally get it in gear, China obviously, Brazil if they ever managed to unfuck themselves, and more.
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u/Pleasant_Tangelo3340 - Centrist 1d ago
If China wasn’t undergoing a South Korea/japan demographic change we’d be fucked 100%. We just don’t learn shit and keep getting lucky, and of course we elect the guy that’s about as close to a traitor as can get to the highest office
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u/Willing_Activity_855 - Right 15h ago
We don't have the raw manpower to compete with China or even India if they got their shit together. They can source more genius, source more workers. How can we compete with that?
China sources its workers from china.
The united states sources its workers from the entire planet.
“China can draw on a talent pool of 1.3 billion people, but the United States can draw on a talent pool of 7 billion and recombine them in a diverse culture that enhances creativity in a way that ethnic Han nationalism cannot.” - lee kuan yew
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u/undreamedgore - Left 15h ago
That's unrealistic and we both know it. Drawing in manpower and labor from abroad hurts thr American middle and lower classes. Suppressing wages, altering local culture and increasing competition for jobs that are already notably scarace.
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u/Willing_Activity_855 - Right 14h ago edited 14h ago
Suppressing wages,
if it did that than why are american real incomes the highest in the world? Why was the US's largest increase in standards of living also during a absolutely massive immigration wave (late 19th century)?
If increasing population numbers lead to a decrease in real income then why doesnt that exist in data?
altering local culture
lol wut, bro thats an ongoing process since the founding of the the country.
Like seriously...what a joke...tell me what was the last time you had Election Day cake? You know the one from Amelia Simmons cookbook...
Oh you've never had it, then stfu about muh culture.
increasing competition for jobs
see lump labor fallacy and jevons paradox.
notably scarace
we have a massive shortage of construction workers to the point where stuff simply isnt getting built because there's no enough people. Some dumbass inbred retard may say 'huurrr just increase wages' and you still have the problem of okay well stuff still isnt getting built that otherwise would be if we had more construction workers.
You know instead of having some uninformed opinion and spouting off all sorts of horseshit maybe take a second and go to your local community college and take a few econ courses.
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u/undreamedgore - Left 13h ago
Our wages are high, but they ahould be higher to maintain our lifestyle. That standard of luving increase coincides with the industrial revolution, so immigration itself wasn't the direct cause.
Cultural evolution is an ongoing process, but importing large abouts of other cultures artificially warps the direction of it, while reducing the impact the existing culture has on the trajectory.
There is a finite supply of skilled labor demand at any given time. Importing, say, thousands of engineers will impact the existing engineers and local engineering students ability to find work. Overall demand may increase, but local demand will be immediately impacted. There infact finite demand on a particular scale of labor, espeically given the unwillingness to spend excess money that labor demands.
You want more construction workers? Hire more American ones, market to people properly, or yes, increase wages. Hiring immigrants (espeically illegals or visa workers) means there is no opportunity for local ability to generate.
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u/Willing_Activity_855 - Right 13h ago edited 13h ago
That standard of luving increase coincides with the industrial revolution, so immigration itself wasn't the direct cause.
And who was going to fill those job rolls? We had full employment, continued to have full employment.
Taking your logic to the extreme texas would be better of if it became its only country and didn't trade with anyone ever and never allowed anyone in. Think of all the JOBS that would need to be done.
Only a moron who's never taken advanced economic courses doesn't understand the more capital you have and the more labor inputs leveraging that capital leads to higher real incomes as long as you maintain a ratio of capital inputs to labor, and the US has extremely levels of unused capital.
Our wages are high, but they ahould be higher to maintain our lifestyle.
wages dont improve lifestyle, real income does.
Hire more American ones
They do that
increase wages.
they've done that and not since those workers are going into construction other jobs are going without workers. And if those places increase wages you're back at step 1 on top of creating demand pull inflation and lowering real incomes.
Real incomes are a result of output per worker not just magically paying people more.
finite demand on a particular scale of labor,
nice way to try and lump labor fallacy.
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u/undreamedgore - Left 13h ago
There is a shortage of jobs right now, not a surplus. Especially in specific fields.
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u/SenselessNoise - Lib-Center 1d ago
Losing to China means a permanent end to American hegemony and with it any real American importantance.
How?
No one has been able to explain to me what "losing to China" looks like. Does the economy collapse? Does the US suffer a complete loss of all technology?
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u/undreamedgore - Left 1d ago
We just don't have a large economy compared to them. Meaing collectively they can leverage more and their citizens have more buying power. Media will begin to cater progressively nore to them, we'll be less able to secure trade deals the blatantly favor us, and we become mearly a piece of the global economy that might do certain things better than other places, rather than a key component of it.
Which would probably cause an economic collapse for the US. But even if it didn't, it would cause a worse economy, worsen our issues domestically across the board, and humiliate us.
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u/SenselessNoise - Lib-Center 17h ago
So just more vague "we gotta win dude give the tech bros all your money to beat China plz bro"
I need specific mechanisms that cause what you're claiming. Does China getting to the AI "finish line" first somehow make the US AI industry physically explode and no longer function? We have a president that is already creating a worse economy, worsening our issues domestically and humiliating us without AI so I fail to see how this is something only losing the AI "race" could accomplish.
It kinda seems like AI is only good for three things - surveillance, piss-filter "art" that is incredibly easy to spot, and extracting every last penny from your wallet.
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u/undreamedgore - Left 16h ago
AI can supplement workers. Meaning whoever has the best version can take a disproportionate amount of the work into their market. Basically, who gets more money flowing in.
And yes, Trump is causing problems, but China beating us will only cause more.
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u/SenselessNoise - Lib-Center 15h ago
It appears the goal isn't really to supplement workers with AI but rather replace workers with AI. This makes sense as labor tends to be the lions share of expenses in the US because we can't pay people $2/hr to work like in China.
But this isn't a zero-sum, winner-takes-all situation. China "winning" (again, no idea what would constitute "winning") doesn't mean we "lose." Microsoft won the PC war but Apple still exists and is doing fine. AMD won the CPU war but Intel still exists and is doing fine. Nvidia won the GPU war but AMD still exists and is doing fine. Just because you're first doesn't mean you win if your product is worse. If the US AI products are better, it doesn't matter who wins the race.
I still am yet to see the mechanisms that cause the situation you say will happen if we don't "win."
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u/undreamedgore - Left 15h ago
Because power, and wealth are zero sum.
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u/SenselessNoise - Lib-Center 14h ago
Is the US the only powerful country and everyone else is weak? Is the US the only wealthy country and everyone else is poor? No? Doesn't sound like power and wealth are zero-sum.
The things that make the US a superpower would still exist if China "won" the AI race, though Trump appears to be doing everything he can to undo all of the things that make us a superpower (alliances, economic/financial power, attractiveness to foreign talent that wouldn't go to China, stability to justify the dollar as the world's reserve currency, etc.). Just because China does it first doesn't mean 1) it'll all be operational, 2) it'll all be operational before we develop counter measures or comparable systems, 3) it'll be as effective as or better than US-based systems, 4) it'll have any meaningful effect on anything. All of this is speculation - if they win the race then maybe they can apply it to more things, and maybe applying it to more things will make things more efficient, and maybe everything being more efficient will be better, assuming everyone else simply gives up trying to compete.
I'm still waiting on those mechanisms, btw. Surely you could run it through your favorite AI chatbot.
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u/undreamedgore - Left 12h ago
The mechanism is market forces.
If we stop being hegemon, we lose our direct pressure over them, even ignoring military action (which a big ask). Markets will shift to cater to Chinese demands over our own.
If you want a real world example, look at Britian or France. They used to be major players. Now they're regional powers at best.
Wealth and power are zero sum. Power especially is obviously zero sum. If everyone reliable had food regardless of circumstances those who control food supply would be powerless, regardless of their resources. If Ghengis Kahn and his armies showed up today, they wouldn't be powerful, because power is zero sum.
Wealth is zero sum in that poverty and what we consider standard is a shifting standard. We eat meat every day, have indoor plumbing, and clean water. By 1500s standards even our poor are absurdly wealthy. But we regard them as poor.
Ultimately what made the US a super power is wealth. No just money, but the amount of capital compared to other countries. As they gain more, we comparatively have less. Alliances are fundamentally unreliable compared to capital control. Financial power goes ro those who control the means of production and can output the greatest amount of work.
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u/Willing_Activity_855 - Right 15h ago
It appears the goal isn't really to supplement workers with AI but rather replace workers with AI.
only if you're too stupid to understand how ai operates.
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u/SenselessNoise - Lib-Center 14h ago edited 14h ago
Enlighten me then, since I'm apparently "too stupid" to understand how a task that would take 2 people being completed by 1 with AI isn't "replacing workers with AI."
ETA - Example: my department at my company could accept more business but we simply don't have the capacity. We could solve that by hiring more people (which would solve more issues than just capacity) at ~$120k each (including benefits), but instead we're implementing AI functions to "supplement" us to handle more business. Of course the other work is still significant and can't be replaced by AI, but we're just expected to deal with it because they simply won't allow more positions. That is AI specifically replacing labor.
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u/Willing_Activity_855 - Right 13h ago
Enlighten me then, since I'm apparently "too stupid" to understand how a task that would take 2 people being completed by 1 with AI isn't "replacing workers with AI."
Say you're digging a hole, roughly 100mx100m and that hole needs to be dug in a day.
So you can dig by hand, and i mean literally with your hand no tools. How many people need to be hired.
Okay so lets toss in shovels and mining picks, how many people. Remember 1 day.
okay so lets toss in the https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bagger_293 now how many people.
Are you suggesting the badger by itself competes with people? That's absolutely stupid.
Each one has difference costs upfront and at scale. The one at the end has the cheapest cost if you're digging a shitload of holes, and what happens downstream if you're digging a shitload of holes.... meet my friend Jevons paradox. "but companies never lower prices" says some retard somewhere; said retard ignores the advent of the modern shipping container lowering the cost of trade dramatically which ends up dramatically increasing global trade.
Same thing is true of charts on paper vs excel vs an actual ERP system
"AI" aka a LLM that loops itself and has access to an MCP server at some level will always have a human in the loop. for maintenance, config, design, testing, and at the end of the pipeline human directing/audit. They're just a shovel.
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u/Willing_Activity_855 - Right 15h ago
it just means china builds the future and the best jobs go to china.
We'd exist to basically turn ourselves into a pensioner republic, real incomes go down over time etc etc.
It's basically the process that has already started in europe, in europe unless they federalize the majority of the continent will simply slowly devolve in relative standards to the rest of the world. It wont be a failed state but opportunity will be extremely limited and real income/household consumption low.
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u/SenselessNoise - Lib-Center 14h ago
it just means china builds the future and the best jobs go to china.
This is laughably ignorant. China is already trying to recruit global talent that would've normally gone to the US if it wasn't for the US currently being run by idiots. AI doesn't change that, and there's no reason those "best jobs" (which you can't name) would only exist in China.
We'd exist to basically turn ourselves into a pensioner republic, real incomes go down over time etc etc.
How?
It's basically the process that has already started in europe, in europe unless they federalize the majority of the continent will simply slowly devolve in relative standards to the rest of the world.
Quite a bold claim there, considering EU countries routinely occupy the top 10 of essentially every metric conceivable.
It wont be a failed state but opportunity will be extremely limited and real income/household consumption low.
Again, how?
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u/Willing_Activity_855 - Right 13h ago
Quite a bold claim there, considering EU countries routinely occupy the top 10 of essentially every metric conceivable.
That's just historical inertia. What leading edge firms exist in europe that have a global presence that also where founded in the last 10 years.
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u/SenselessNoise - Lib-Center 13h ago
Could you do the same with the US?
Ignoring AI companies and pushing the window out to the last 20 years, you have ASML (the whole reason TSMC can make the chips they do), ARM (which designed and built the processor your smartphone uses), Klarna (which is on almost every e-commerce purchase page) and Spotify, to name the ones I've at least heard of. There's a ton more but they're in niche industries and I don't know how they rate compared to others.
But what does that have to do with claiming that Europe is "slowly devolv[ing] in relative standards to the rest of the world"?
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u/Willing_Activity_855 - Right 11h ago
Could you do the same with the US?
easy anthropic, perplexity, Anduril
20 years
which would be 2006, and brother ASML was founded in the 1980s, ARM the 1990s. When you start looking at the last 20 years the US just fucking dominates.
But what does that have to do with claiming that Europe is "slowly devolv[ing] in relative standards to the rest of the world"?
The EU market by population is larger than the US market and yet aside from legacy companies they not the center stage for any form of industry. Sure they have a mix of this and a mix of that but it's mostly legacy inertia and slowly thats being chipped away at.
Right now they're about to get hit hard with china shock 2.0 and their industries devastated by Chinese advanced manufacturing. They can tariff all they want but the eurozone exports those goods and what happens when their international customers are eaten up by chinese firms. What happens to the german Mittelstand. What will happen to their real incomes?
Same is true for the US of course but where the US is more exposed is software and software services; that would be china shock 3.0. We already saw china shock 1.0 with goods made on the bottom end of the value chain.
Just think of this, broadly the best paying and most secure jobs (other than those protected by massive layers of government at the cost to everyone else) are the ones that scale globally, when you scale globally you compete globally. Best pay in the US comes from financial services and tech.
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u/SenselessNoise - Lib-Center 10h ago
easy anthropic, perplexity, Anduril
Anthropic maybe (I'd counter with DeepL), but I've never heard of Perplexity or Anduril and neither appear to be "leading edge." Even Anthropic isn't considered "leading edge" considering they're competing with multiple other models.
which would be 2006, and brother ASML was founded in the 1980s
ASML was nothing until their first prototype using EUV in 2006.
ARM the 1990s
You mean when they had 12 employees? The iPhone launch in 2007 is what really cemented ARM processors over any other competitor.
When you start looking at the last 20 years the US just fucking dominates.
This has nothing to do with your original claim that the EU is "devolving in relative standards to the rest of the world."
The EU market by population is larger than the US market and yet aside from legacy companies they not the center stage for any form of industry. Sure they have a mix of this and a mix of that but it's mostly legacy inertia and slowly thats being chipped away at.
So what?
Right now they're about to get hit hard with china shock 2.0 and their industries devastated by Chinese advanced manufacturing.
So the same thing that happened to us?
They can tariff all they want but the eurozone exports those goods and what happens when their international customers are eaten up by chinese firms.
I don't know what you're talking about - no one but the Chinese will buy EU products?
What happens to the german Mittelstand.
What happened to small businesses in the US?
What will happen to their real incomes?
I imagine the same thing that happened in the US when we offloaded all of our production to China.
Same is true for the US of course but where the US is more exposed is software and software services; that would be china shock 3.0. We already saw china shock 1.0 with goods made on the bottom end of the value chain.
So you realize this AI race is fruitless if China just steals it like they've stolen everything else, right?
Just think of this, broadly the best paying and most secure jobs (other than those protected by massive layers of government at the cost to everyone else) are the ones that scale globally, when you scale globally you compete globally. Best pay in the US comes from financial services and tech.
And why would that change?
You still haven't addressed anything else I said - you have no evidence that the "best jobs [would] go to China" because you are pretending that if China "wins" the AI race, all other models disappear and no one will ever compete. You haven't explained how China winning the AI "race" would impact "real incomes" considering AI now is far from profitable and really is just shoveling money into a furnace. You just keep making vague statements.
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u/tactical_lampost - Lib-Left 1d ago
turns out soft power is important, who knew. Now guess what the impact from raising tarriffs is on American soft power.
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u/undreamedgore - Left 1d ago
Yeah no shit. I don't support that.
But we need both hard and soft power. As well as money flowing in.
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u/IowaKidd97 - Lib-Center 1d ago edited 1d ago
Data Centers: is loud, imposing, spikes demand for (and doesn’t fully pay for) electricity and water spiking prices for both in the local area. And WILL be used for AI and contribute to all the issues caused/associated with AI.
Government: “Why don’t people want data centers? Why do you want China to win??”
Edit: Data Center: Also takes up an enormous amount of land while only employing a small number of people. Meanwhile most other businesses types not directly related to food production would employ significantly more people for the same or less land.
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u/Pleasant_Tangelo3340 - Centrist 1d ago
It’s like a undercover agent trying to undermine the US
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u/Level_Somewhere - Right 1d ago
Yes from China
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u/long-dick-of-the-law - Auth-Right 1d ago
Russia more likely
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u/Level_Somewhere - Right 1d ago
Falling behind in the AI race is the least of Russias worries
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u/long-dick-of-the-law - Auth-Right 1d ago
When you consider everything else he does, its more likely that he is a russian puppet
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u/Sabertooth767 - Lib-Right 1d ago
Data centers decrease long-run energy costs because their demand is fairly constant, which facilitaties planning and investing in less flexible energy sources like nuclear.
https://fortune.com/2026/07/26/data-centers-electricity-costs-cheaper-7billion-buildout-ai-demand/
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u/Belgraviana - Auth-Center 1d ago
You still need to account for short term costs to the community
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u/Sabertooth767 - Lib-Right 1d ago
True, I fully agree that all people and firms should pay for their negative externalities. But even with those negative externalities unsettled, the positives will balance out.
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u/Metasaber - Centrist 1d ago
That paper they're citing is flawed and only pulled data from before 2024 and dosent factor in info from the data center constitution booms in 2025. But it also tries to write off increase in pricing using factors from 2025.
Their methodology is bullshit.
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u/GustavoFromAsdf - Lib-Center 1d ago
And will turn your tap water brown. But hey, Sam Altman said you shouldn't be entitled to drinking water.
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u/IowaKidd97 - Lib-Center 1d ago
I am not sure if that was a data center thing or just a construction near water reservoir thing. Even if the later though water turning brown from construction is still a big deal and I’d want to know that the construction was worth it. Data Centers fall short of that.
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u/GustavoFromAsdf - Lib-Center 1d ago
https://www.opb.org/article/2026/03/31/amazon-fine-northeast-oregon-boardman-nitrate-pollution-well/
There was a lawsuit settled by Amazon where their food processing plant was dumping excessive nitrate into the water supply, which was worsened by their data center by condensing the water and worsening the nitrate pollution in the water used by Morrow County residents, reaching four times the concentration EPA allows.
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u/camosnipe1 - Lib-Right 1d ago
it was a single family well that got sediment kicked loose. that's it. It didn't turn a river brown or affect the actual drinking water, just a single hole in the ground in the neighboring plot of land.
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u/Willing_Activity_855 - Right 15h ago
is loud,
no they're not, you're just a moron.
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u/IowaKidd97 - Lib-Center 14h ago
Hearing generators kick on from their homes is one of the top non financial complaints about them. I suppose hearing generators makes you stupid huh?
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u/Wetbug75 - Left 1d ago
I didn't understand why they need to be built near residences. The noise issue seems like the only deal breaker to me, everything else could be favorably negotiated by whatever town the data center is trying to build in.
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u/aluminumtelephone - Lib-Right 1d ago
Latency is the reason for that. The fastest we can possibly move data is the speed of light, so requesting it from a data center 15 miles away is preferable to one across the country, so they're built near people. The thing is a lot of data isn't really latency sensitive, but some is.
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u/Wetbug75 - Left 1d ago
Okay, but I'm talking about building them 1500 feet away from houses. Why can't they be 15 miles away?
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u/aluminumtelephone - Lib-Right 19h ago
15 miles away from you is typically 1500ft from another person, or a subdivision is going up there soon.
But yes, they can be built geographically close to cities on industrial or farm land, but then people complain about farms being bought up for data centers too.
All that to also say, if you live in any city over probably 50k, there's already some kind of data center near you, and you haven't noticed. Most of them are not attention seeking or obnoxious in any way.
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u/Paledonn - Centrist 1d ago
Most of them aren't. But people are still freaking out about them even if they're directly next to an interstate. People are (wrongly) convinced that a data center in their county will be bad for their wallet (property tax savings vastly outweigh rises in utility costs).
Most of them aren't even noisy on the outside. That claim is mostly based on a handful of data centers that have on site generators that run frequently. The data centers surrounding my parent's house make no noise from the outside.
This is the case with a lot of data center opposition "facts." Opponents pull the worst traits of the worst data centers and assume that every data center poses those issues. The biggest real problems are 1) electric use and 2) the possibility of an AI bust leaving towns with expanded utility systems and no data centers to pay for them.
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u/jd-scott - Right 1d ago
The problem is governments allowing them to build in residential and agriculture zoned land. That and giving them subsidies is stupid. They can buy land zoned industrial and make or break it on their own. Thats it.
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u/shittycomputerguy - Auth-Center 20h ago
We slept on solar panel production and China ate our lunch.
Data centers decrease the quality of life in residential areas. Maybe if there was a better way to build them without ruining the quality of life of our citizens, they would be easier to advocate for.
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u/AlchemistJeep - Lib-Right 1d ago
Data centers could be good or bad depending on how they are implemented. A closed loop system that brings its own power is a good thing
Get mad at the ones doing it wrong, not the industry as a whole
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u/GildSkiss - Lib-Right 1d ago
A "data center" is fundamentally just a building full of computers and have existed for decades. The conversation gets extremely confused when people each have their own different idea of what they imagine those computers are doing.
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u/Emergency_Gene_4171 - Right 1d ago
The only defense of data centers I’ve seen is from libertarians, the Ben Shapiro types, and the ultra rich who have a stake in them. The populist right wing movements are not on board.
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u/Lower_Kick268 - Lib-Left 1d ago
Hell if my right wing, farming, redneck, small town voted to ban data centers it's probably a sign that the people don't want it.
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u/Valmar33 - Lib-Center 23h ago
The only defense of data centers I’ve seen is from libertarians, the Ben Shapiro types, and the ultra rich who have a stake in them. The populist right wing movements are not on board.
LibRight doesn't want them, because they're being imposed on them by ultra-wealth Auth types.
Genuine libertarians don't want them either, as they encroach on people's freedoms.
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u/ChipKellysShoeStore - Lib-Right 15h ago
Freedom to stop other people from using their property as they wish?
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u/FervantFlea - Lib-Center 10h ago
I'd say most reasonable people who haven't joined the angry mob realize that we've had data centers for 40 years, we'll continue to have them forever, we'll have to build more of them, and that it's essentially a non-issue being blown up to ridiculous proportions. You can build all the data centers we'll ever need and you could go your whole life without encountering one because it's a fucking big country. Never mind the fact that most of the talking points people use are nonsense if you consider where things like water usage fit on a scale compared to any number of other ways we consume water.
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u/Sabertooth767 - Lib-Right 1d ago
Populists being wrong about something, imagine that.
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u/Camelsandham - Lib-Center 1d ago
So as a lib you want more of your data stored?
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u/Sabertooth767 - Lib-Right 1d ago
No, I'm just not retarded enough to look at the government abusing its powers and think it's the computer that's the problem.
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u/Camelsandham - Lib-Center 1d ago
Yes, the current people who own the data centers are ethical (haven’t sold our info before) and not salivating at the chance to monopolize
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u/Sabertooth767 - Lib-Right 1d ago
You know what would help prevent cartelization?
Let people fucking build.
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u/Camelsandham - Lib-Center 1d ago
The people as in it should be a populist issue?
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u/Sabertooth767 - Lib-Right 1d ago
I mean I'm all for having a data center in your basement.
What I don't support is letting your neighbor vote on it.
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u/pastherolink - Lib-Center 1d ago
No, I'm just not retarded enough to look at the government abusing its omnipotent mindreading ultra kill anyone anywhere laser and think it's the omnipotent mindreading ultra kill anyone anywhere laser that's the problem.
Edit: also not even the government lmao, its the private sector.
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u/Sabertooth767 - Lib-Right 1d ago
This but unironically. That'd be great to have to vaporize ISIS or something with.
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u/pastherolink - Lib-Center 1d ago
Yeah and while we are at it, we can do the domestic terrorists (anyone who has ever thought bad of glorious leader) surely that will make the world a better place!
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u/Level_Somewhere - Right 1d ago
The best way to ensure our survival is with our hands tied behind our backs
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u/Unabashed-Citron4854 - Centrist 1d ago edited 1d ago
Your data is getting stored either way. The question is whether you want to be stored in the US, where it will be subject to US laws and its value will be captured by local property taxes, or whether you want it stored in some other country that probably hates you.
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u/Emergency_Gene_4171 - Right 1d ago
The daily wire loves you and wants the best for you. Now eat your daily allotted cricket protein and face the wall.
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u/jerseygunz - Left 1d ago
So I’m going with someone got some polling numbers and that’s why Trump sent that truth out and why today this sub is being flooded with pro data center bots….. I mean actual people who love billionaires taking their resources and giving nothing back.
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u/Mysterious_Net_1029 - Lib-Center 22h ago
There’s obviously a huge push by billionaires to demonize the “luddites”. Everyone I know irl hates this but I’m seeing more and more idiots and or bots saying things like “we will lose to china!” on social media.
The luddites weren’t even wrong or against new technology. They were correct if you spend any time learning about what they actually stood for. They were demonized and taken down by unlimited capital.
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u/Level_Somewhere - Right 1d ago
“Giving nothing back” do you not know anyone using AI? Are you Ted Kaczynski?
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u/jerseygunz - Left 1d ago
As in they are being subsidized by the public and receiving no compensation. Also I know more people who tried AI, realized it sucked and stopped using it. Now I’ll grant you, i absolutely see the value in the technology, I’m not a Luddite, but as tool for the general population to use that would justify all this public spending? Nah. O there is also the part that it’s going to turn the youth into a bunch of useless zombies that can’t think for themselves and the job loss that no one has a plan for, but that’s another story
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u/Level_Somewhere - Right 1d ago
All fair points, there is no reason why we can’t go full steam ahead responsibly, oh except for corruption and lack of empathy. But if I have to choose between datacenters leaching off the populace and pissing everyone off and autonomous robo-ferret swarms spreading continuously mutating ass bleed viruses in my neighborhood I’m choosing the datcenters
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u/jataba115 - Lib-Right 1d ago
Where I’m at I’m more pissed off about the countless marijuana grows/farms and the way they’ve made the countryside shitty. They have these fucking lights on 24/7, they’re huge makeshift tent like structures, they reek, they need to be gone for good. Half of them abandoned when they didn’t even turn enough profit. I can see data centers if they stay maintained because they may not be as much of a blight
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u/WentworthMillersBO - Right 1d ago
3 posts In a row about data centers…
Did the bots finally get switched off of talking about Israel/Palestine!?!?!
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u/krafterinho - Centrist 1d ago
Exactly, why are people talking about a compass unity controversial topic?? I want my 20 a day Lindsay whatever/Ceuta/reddit screenshot posts back!
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u/-amu- - Lib-Right 1d ago edited 1d ago
I extend my sympathies to the people whose lives have been inconvenienced by data center creation - though I suspect this number is overwhelmingly small compared to the total amount of people who comfortably live near a data center (without even knowing).
However, I truly believe we are in an era where we need to maximize compute. There is probably no more precious projection of power a country can produce than overwhelming, dominant compute capability. We're entering an era where bullets and bombs are secondary to bytes and bandwidth; and the global power spheres will consolidate around the entities with the access to the most raw compute. The USA needs many, many more data centers to strength its position as the global leader and hegemon. We've already won the cultural victory for this age, I'd like us to win the technological victory as well.
Attempts to regress in this frontier will almost certainly cause far more economic distress than not. The demand for software, for data, for every-fucking-thing related to the digital economy is not going to shrink if we build less data centers here. If not Virginia or California, they'll get built in elsewhere; in Dublin, Singapore, and Shenzhen. And we end up paying more for less of the main resource the world will depend on. It's foolish to assume we're creating a better life for ourselves by ignoring this reality - we need compute, a lot of fucking compute and we need it here.
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u/GildSkiss - Lib-Right 1d ago
though I suspect this number is overwhelmingly small
Noooo, you're supposed to form your opinion based on the worst individual anecdotes I can find, regardless of the broader context!
A data center actually killed my neighbor's uncle's dog, therefore society is not allowed to progress technologically past the point that I'm currently comfortable with.
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u/DangerDelecto - Lib-Center 1d ago
Ten years ago I agreed with the right image and the AI arms race against China/Russia as a necessary evil but it's become clear the techno dorks in the US are also complete psychos and an immediate danger.
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u/AGthe18thEmperor - Auth-Right 1d ago
The only reason the MAGA diehards support data centers is because they piss off the libs
As with a lot of issues
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u/professor_kraken - Right 1d ago
Data centers are just not a problem bruh. Look at the corn fields and compare the area taken and water consumed.
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u/Thorn14 - Left 1d ago
Can you feed people with data?
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u/professor_kraken - Right 1d ago
Can you feed peoplenwith federally mandated corn-based ethanol additives?
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u/Thorn14 - Left 1d ago
I'd gladly limit that shit too. Not replace it with Data Centers though.
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u/professor_kraken - Right 1d ago
My point is that data centers take like 5% of that land, so data centers are hardly the boogeymen they are made out to be.
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u/beershitz - Lib-Right 1d ago
I don’t like the notion that we (the public/government) “give” people the right to build shit. We can only take that right.
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u/No_Entertainment6792 - Lib-Left 19h ago
the software update came early for the most auth in this comment section. the MAGA servers get better and better.
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u/Crusader63 - Centrist 9h ago
Data centers are good and have been around for years. This is a moral panic and witch hunt. Nobody cared until you were told to care
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u/Own-Soil-6236 - Lib-Right 1d ago
If someone can afford to buy the land, build a data center and pay to run it, why should we be stopping them? (This is all assuming no government subsidies or preferential treatment)
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u/Justmeagaindownhere - Centrist 1d ago
They impose very high negative externalities in their local area through constant noise, heavy construction, heat pollution, and increasing power costs. They do not employ anywhere near enough people to recoup their burden. They make people's lives much worse.
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u/Own-Soil-6236 - Lib-Right 1d ago
Constant noise…like any other industry. Construction…like any other industry.
Lol heat pollution.
Increasing power costs is going to happen when demand increases but then we have government regulation making the building of additional power plants difficult and costly.
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u/Justmeagaindownhere - Centrist 1d ago
Yes dipshit, that's why there's regulations for other industries. You are not allowed to build a steel mill next to an elementary school for a reason. Other industries have agreements to pay all of the cost of increasing the power bill. But data centers aren't regulated like other industries (yet), so they cause problems that other industries don't.
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u/Tyrocious - Lib-Right 1d ago
This is all assuming no government subsidies or preferential treatment
Not only are these companies getting subsidies, but power companies are fucking over their regular customers to supply power to data centers. Elected municipal officials are fucking over their constituents to give the data center builders better deals.
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u/Own-Soil-6236 - Lib-Right 1d ago edited 1d ago
Exactly this. And then people want the government to step in to stop the problem that another part of the government is subsidizing.
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u/Tyrocious - Lib-Right 1d ago
Who else is supposed to stop the problem?
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u/Own-Soil-6236 - Lib-Right 1d ago
The solution is limited government power. The government is interfering in the economy with subsidies and then people are calling for even more government to fix the problem they caused in the first place.
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u/Tyrocious - Lib-Right 1d ago
Yeah that's a cool theoretical solution and all but it doesn't really help someone having a data center built in their backyard right now.
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u/Heavy_Computer2602 - Lib-Right 1d ago
This is why I want pigouvian taxes
you cant have a data centre without massive amounts of water wastage. it automatically prevents that shit.
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u/GildSkiss - Lib-Right 1d ago
you cant have a data centre without massive amounts of water wastage
You can actually
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u/Unabashed-Citron4854 - Centrist 1d ago
We currently use 3 times as much water to grow almonds in this country as we do on data centers.
almonds
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u/Heavy_Computer2602 - Lib-Right 1d ago
Yeah but we get almonds, a lasting product out of it. And more valuable
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u/ChipKellysShoeStore - Lib-Right 15h ago
He says on Reddit.
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u/Heavy_Computer2602 - Lib-Right 15h ago
But like reddit does give good content
Gen ai gives... huh.
Plus gen ai can be run locally if youre THAT interested
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u/Omelooo - Lib-Left 1d ago
Can we just put them somewhere like space or Mar a lago?
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u/Unabashed-Citron4854 - Centrist 1d ago
There’s already one only one mile from Mar a lago. His golf course is in the data center capital of the country. We very much are already putting them near Trump properties.
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u/RainbowGhostMew - Lib-Center 1d ago
I can’t wait till all the billionaires assets are space side. Let’s make a rule that stuff on earth can be taxes. Stuff in space can’t be taxed. Then the billionaires can make all the stuff in space and mine resources on asteroids and leave the earth alone. Space is big enough for all junk.
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u/warfaceisthebest - Centrist 1d ago
As an Asian I dont really understand whats the problem of all data centers. It brings a lot of jobs and ai is literally changing the entire world so my place literally gives financial supports, free land and tax exemption for years for those ai data center here. Hell we even build a dorm and rent it to the employees for virtually nothing.
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u/3058248 - Lib-Center 1d ago
LLMs give so much uncaptured value it's unreal. I am about to launch a company that I otherwise probably would not have if AI didn't exist. If it's mildly successful, then I am producing tens of thousands of dollars in value due in no small part to $40/month in AI subscription fees.
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u/PoliticsIsDepressing - Lib-Center 1d ago
Let the free market decide if a data center is built somewhere. Government does not have a choice in the matter.
If you want to build one close to my home, you better give me benefits!
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u/Silverfrost_01 - Centrist 1d ago
“Let the free market decide.”
Rich land owner sells their land to a data center. No one else in the community has a say, since the land isn’t there.
Look, the government might not always do its job, but you at least have leverage over elected officials who can decide how land gets developed in an area.
In a world purely driven by market forces, you’ll just get fucked by the person who has more in the market. Your complaining can be ignored.
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u/Justmeagaindownhere - Centrist 1d ago
If you want to build one close to my home, you better give me benefits!
This is antithetical to the free market. Nobody with money cares about you or your benefits.
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u/baysideareaman - Centrist 1d ago
What you’re advocating for is a data center build immediately next to your closest property line with no direct benefits distributed to you. That’s the free market.
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u/Hairier_Du_Bois - Auth-Left 1d ago
Restrict data centers and China wins??
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u/libertyg8er - Lib-Right 1d ago
If you want control over your life and neighborhood, own those things.
Otherwise, said owner of those things will have control over them.
Why is this difficult?
Why do you want to control what someone else does with their own property unless you can show how what they’re doing directly harms you, or your own property?
Are you sure you don’t already live next to a data center?
You might be surprised.
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u/username1338 - Right 1d ago
The people who cry about data centers sound the exact same as the people who cried about 5G towers.
Total losers. Every complaint is totally fabricated. Construction unions want these centers.
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u/RBB12_Fisher - Auth-Right 21h ago
Screw 5G too. Go full boomer. The children don't need phones (phone bad), the children need cigarettes.
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u/Iceraptor17 - Centrist 1d ago edited 1d ago
Yes. We need data centers to stay ahead of China. But the myth annoying me is that we need ALL OF THEM to stay ahead of China. Metas targeted ads data center isn't gonna help us beat China, it's just gonna make mark Zuckerberg even more money
The China fear is tiresome because while there is truth to it and something to take serious, there's an element of "so therefore we need to let these people do whatever they want for profit or else we'll die!!!!!" and that's just some serious bullshit
Furthermore it also isn't ignored that there's huge tracts of land by the properties owned by these billionaires and govt officials telling us we need this but strangely they're not volunteering to put it next to their homes. So we need these so bad... but just nowhere close to the people who make money off of it