r/PoursTea • u/Veshaad Timendi Causa Est Nescire • 14d ago
FinancialTea 💵 That's a valid question...
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u/Manatee_Rangoon 14d ago
I suspect Cuban understands how greed works
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u/Veshaad Timendi Causa Est Nescire 14d ago
He's much better than O'Leary at least. He committed to paying his hourly paid employees their full salary during the lockdown and urged others to do the same.
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u/gitbse 14d ago
He still needs to be on the menu, but we can eat him last. His Rx website actually has done some real good.
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u/Sherlockandload 14d ago
Let them go if they reduce their wealth to just under a billion. I would even be okay with them placing it in a philanthropic trust or something similar with oversight and some additional controls, like none of it can go towards lobbying or PAC donations. I would even say they can keep the credit for the good that's accomplished just as long as they can't use it.
Check the difference every financial quarter. Over the line, get eaten.
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u/AutomataApp 14d ago
Rich guy does good thing
Redditors: We're still gonna come kill you
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u/gitbse 14d ago
Anybody being a billionaire is a failure of society. They should not exist. I'll say it.
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u/addiktion 14d ago
If only there were more billionaires doing good, then they wouldn't be billionaires.
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u/RogerAffirmative 14d ago
Meh. Capitalism in it's western form is completely broken, but you can't look at someone like cuban who is constantly using his resources to stimulate beneficial growth as the problem. He built his companies legitimately... helped so many others build theirs... and is successfully undercutting a huge industry. I'm more worried about the people that might have a bead on him. If we don't have anyone with resources like his making impactful change then we're even more fucked.
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u/StudMuffinNick 14d ago
I dislike them but an old history teacher of mine said soemthing the stuck with me.
That the Amerixan Revolution only happened, and was only successful, when the upper class got involved. Once their money was threatened suddenly the common people, being hurt since forever, had resources to fight back
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u/cvc4455 14d ago
So your saying that fucking with the amount of money they can make is the only hope we have for any type of change.
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u/ElminstersBedpan 14d ago
That is indeed how you force systemic change; you hit the elite monied classes in their profits.
Actual boycotts, strikes, and vandalism all work to force action. It also helps if France wants to punch your current government in the eye badly enough to take on more extraordinary debt just to make the other guy flinch.
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u/melkatron 14d ago
Billionaires aren't the problem, you guys, it's unfair taxes. When I become a billionaire, I don't want taxes taking the money I earned with hard work, skill, and intellect.
- BFA making minimum wage
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u/deadkat99 14d ago
He stars on a TV show about buying out people's dreams for profit even though he literally a billionaire....
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u/jackofslayers 14d ago
I mean I will at least agree that he is better than the other billionaire on that same show that is like comically evil.
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u/someinsanit 14d ago
I heard your willing to pay a man enough to walk barefoot into hell. Is this true xanatos?
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u/Blazeland_USA 14d ago
I'm sure he's a greedy asswipe like the rest of them, but what I will say is that his rx drug business is much less expensive than the alternatives.
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u/BoJackMoleman 14d ago
His greed is of a niche kind... his greed is the kind that makes him want to undercut the competition and disrupt markets. He is still greedy but he wants to extract some of at at the cost of other greedy people.
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u/Kimothy42 13d ago
If he’d switch to extraction from the greedy exclusively I’d take it. He can keep all his money if he puts all the other guys’ money back into society (like, that becomes our money, not his money that he promises to do nice things with).
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u/Healthy_Log_6171 14d ago
Those Gulfstream jets for the CEO don't pay for themselves.
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u/RiskyNight 14d ago
I don't have insurance anymore. My self-pay doctor visits and prescriptions are about the same price as it was for my insurance co-pays.
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u/limited67 14d ago
I would do that but the fear of catastrophe is an issue
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u/RiskyNight 14d ago
Yeah, there is that! Isn't living in America great? I've only ever had health coverage for 6 out of my over 20 years as an adult. Only one employer offered it.
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u/MegatronusThePrime 14d ago
It's always worse than the free healthcare you can get through the state, too.
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u/lostandwandering123 8d ago
I did that about 8 years ago. Couldn't afford a car, walked to work, luckily it was only 2 miles. Had a good roommate too. Had to choose between health insurance and rent. Rent was the obvious choice.
When I did my taxes that year, I owed just over 3.4k between state and federal for being uninsured. Coincidentally, the awful insurance my job offered that covered nothing was around the same. My roommate made 2k less per year than I did and qualified for full coverage medicaid, while i didnt. We cant win.
I'm thankfully in a better position now, but I'm still paying off debt from back then.
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u/SingularityCentral 14d ago
A cancer diagnosis would just be a death sentence. But I guess you won't really get that news in time to do anything unless you pony up for a more expensive screening procedure.
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u/Big77Ben2 14d ago
That all goes to sh!t when chronic illness comes a knockin. Then you’re in preexisting condition land.
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u/Irish_swede 14d ago
The 2500 foots the bill for all the times the scans are done without insurance or hope of financial recovery.
This isn’t me advocating for this type of system, just a point of fact.
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u/mabhatter 14d ago
Yup.
He should really know about capital expense and utilization. The "MRI in a Bus" is not the same as a Hospital grade MRI. Yes, they both do scans, but I'd venture the Hospital one is a much higher end model with more zeros in the cost.
They're only good for so many years, so you have to divide millions of dollars by how many scans you can run in a typical hospital lab day. While MRI machines are booked solid, they're not particularly efficient in scheduling and it takes a lot of time to setup the procedure and get the patient ready between scans. Then you have the actual Hospital costs of overhead and utilities. Which again, the his has to make a certain dollar amount "per room" in the hospital in order to cover the expenses of operations. The Truck is way cheaper because of that.
Not that MRIs can't be cheaper... but it's not $350 at a Hospital. That's not realistic. As a business person Cuban makes these statements deliberately ignoring the overhead that a hospital has versus a truck.
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u/MeKillStuff 14d ago edited 14d ago
This. I am a radiologist. A legit diagnostic quality MRI does not cost $350. And I personally refuse to read and of these “Mobile MRI” or “Open air MRI” because the quality is so bad that often times I would be unable to tell you anything of use.
Are things overpriced in US healthcare? Fuck yes.
Is Mark Cuban full of shit? Also yes.
I’m sure a businessman such as himself understands where costs come from so this statement, if he said it, is pretty disingenuous. The cost of the MRI isn’t just from how much it costs to take the pictures. It covers the techs salary, my salary, the nurses salary if they needed an IV, hell the radiology receptionist needs to get paid too right? Then of course the cost of powering the machine, keeping the lights on in the department, the cost of the PACs software the hospital had to buy to read the images. THIS LIST GOES ON FOREVER. And he knows it.
What a turd.
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u/taigarawrr 13d ago
But why does an MRI in let’s say Japan costs roughly $200, out of pocket with no insurance? The average worldwide is around $150-$600. Obviously $350 might be low (I guess with the exorbitant doctor salaries, etc the raw “cost” of the MRI goes up). But it shouldn’t be $2500, no? Why isn’t it closer to $600 or even $800? Basically the raw cost of the MRI should in fact be a lot cheaper than it actually is.
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14d ago edited 14d ago
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/vigbiorn 14d ago
It's also funny to me that Mark Cuban, a guy who sits at the top of a corporate ladder padding costs merely by existing and drawing a salary, is wondering why having an insurance company sit between care providers and patients might inflate costs just due to people drawing salaries.
How is it complicated?
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u/Lonely_Cucumber_69 14d ago
Bc they give the insurance company a discount and then pass that cost on to you for co pay and deductibles. Insurance doesn’t pay anything. You pay a subscription, they strong arm the medical industry to raise their cost to provide a “discount”, and the real cost is still passed on to us the patient. Insurance is a scam!!!
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u/LizDahan 14d ago
Probably because a new clinical grade MRI machine costs $1.5M
Plus the cost of the specialized shielded room required to operate it.
Plus a service plan that’s $50K-$125K per year.
Plus the staff to operate it and read the MRI.
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u/Sunshine_Prophylaxis 14d ago
Plus they're slow AF per scan. Way slower than a CT.
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u/Consistent-Fig7484 13d ago
That’s just the technology of the modality though. They aren’t intentionally doing them slowly in order to bill more.
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u/soxperry 14d ago
Marky sits by all the guys that get profits from it. Ask them to step their game up.
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u/thechinninator 14d ago
I thought it was common knowledge that the $2,500 is all accounting theatrics and insurance is actually paying the $350
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u/Some-Tear3499 14d ago
Easy, they bill huge, that doesn’t mean they get paid that amount.
My daughters lab tests were billed at $420
Insurance paid $42. I paid a $10 copay.
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u/Key-Organization3158 14d ago
Because the problem in the US healthcare system is the lack of free market choice. If you look historically, the US healthcare system was cost competitive with completely public options for decades. But as we let the healthcare system pass laws like certificate of need (you need your competitions permission to open a new hospital or add capacity), healthcare became wildly expensive.
That was inspite of the initial fuck up. The US government didn't like how much people were getting paid during WW2. To combat inflation, they capped salaries, but left benefits out. So companies started to offer health insurance. Then the government cemeted that by making a tax advantage benefit. That's why your company dictates your health insurance now.
https://www.healthsystemtracker.org/chart/total-health-expenditures-as-percent-of-gdp-1970-2017-2/
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u/Recent-Bowl-1393 14d ago
Cuban is not perfect, but he is a straight shooter and understands finance. I think he could be a viable political candidate some day.
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u/Inevitable-Shop-848 14d ago
My retired long haul truck driving uncle once told us no matter where he was or where he was going. If he got a call for any kind of medical pickup, he went if he could.
He said the medical field has so much money to burn they're paying out three times compared to a regular haul. He told us usually medical hauls don't even fill the trailer but still pay more than any big corporate company like walmart or target with a full trailer.
This is how they make so much money. Over charging the people.
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u/showmeyourchits 14d ago
You should be asking why if they cost 350, and insurance pays 2500, why a private payer is billed 10k.
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u/Flimsy-Ad-5274 13d ago
You pay hospital prices to keep the hospital open, for when you need it in an emergency. When COVID hit we saw how much hospitals rely on elective surgery just to keep the lights on.
The independent MRI shop has lower overhead, and its not a total loss to the community if it goes under.
So, in essence, you are paying $2500 for a hospital MRI so that when you have a massive stroke 20+ years down the road, the hospital and staff will still be there.
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u/SolydSn3k 14d ago edited 14d ago
Billing insurance $2500 doesn’t mean insurance pays $2500. There’s a cap / allowable amount enforced by insurance.
That’s before any copay benefit kicks in, so the cap is not a benefit… it’s literally just a maximum charge for a specific covered service, regardless whether you or your plan wind up responsible for the balance.
Medical providers deliberately overbill insurance to ensure they always receive the allowable amount & are never underpaid for service (I’m pretty sure the allowable is not the same across all carriers/plans, so this is an efficient way to deal with that issue from the provider’s side).
If you were uninsured, no provider would bill an uninsured individual as if they were an insurance company... so it’s basically an inconsequential formality because neither insurance nor individuals are ever actually paying the raw billed amount.
I’m not defending insurance, because they do plenty of shitty things… but this meme is stupid (if I’m interpreting it correctly) & I can only imagine it upsetting people who have never paid a health insurance premium / never had a health insurance claim.
I’m also pretty sure an MRI in a hospital does NOT cost $350 & that’s also just made up. There’s a reason facilities like hospitals have higher fees.
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u/PerfStu 14d ago
You cant be sitting around with a net worth of billions of dollars feigning shock that industries exploit people. You just can't.
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u/nf_sew_711 14d ago
I went for one for an upcoming appointment and was told the results weren’t going to available for another 8 weeks.
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u/OutrageousCrab9224 14d ago
Cuz you gotta give a cut to every dickhead businessman who saw it as an investment
See how that works, mark?
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u/Similar_Ad4120 14d ago
Insurance pays hospitals the higher agreed to price for a few reasons. One is that the hospital tacks on a facility fee. The hospital will also up charge on MRI’s because it tries to recoup money it loses in the ER treating people without insurance. Overhead to keep these machines on a hospital is more than in a smaller stand alone clinic. Also the hospital can charge more because the MRI is necessary and usually an emergency and needs to be done immediately.
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u/Hot_Bicycle_9944 14d ago
Short answer is consolation in the hospital market. PE keeps buying up hospitals and raising prices.
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u/RabidPoodle69 14d ago
The insurance company never pays what they are billed. Why does he care, he's a billionaire?
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u/Get_it_yourself 14d ago
One important clarification needed here, billed or paid? Those are two entirely different things. They get billed a lot more than they pay out because they pay pennies on the dollar. Insurance companies don't allow providers to talk about reimbursements.
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u/imtooldforthishison 14d ago
They don't pay that though. They "negotiate" the rate down, then leave the negotiated rate for the patient to pay, unless they have already reached their deductible. Insurance companies are usually paying about the same as the rate for uninsured. We are literally getting nothing from this deal.
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u/vyvansejoy 14d ago
Correct me if I'm wrong, but wouldn't this be at least partly caused by Emtala?
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u/mWade7 14d ago
I’m a little suspicious of these numbers because radiology tests generally have two types of fees: technical and professional. The technical is the slap-you-in-a-scanner and hope you don’t Hulk-out. The professional fee (the much higher cost) is for the reading/interpretation of the images by a Radiologist.
So, I’m not completely discounting these numbers, but whenever I see something that attempts to make a super-simple example of something that has more nuance to it I’m skeptical. That being said, there’s also no fixed/national cost structure that healthcare entities are required to follow. In essence, a hospital or whatever can technically charge whatever the hell they want.
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u/pgp02145 14d ago
Hospital MRIs with contrast are even more! Swear I saw an estimate/bill once for $6k. Insane!!
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u/TechnicalWhore 14d ago
There is a great book "America's Bitter Pill" written by Steven Brill - solid fact driven journalist and best selling author. Its an expose of where we are in healthcare in the US and how we evolved to such a state. One part of it denotes his attempt to get a simple quote for an MRI at a number of nearby hospitals in an area of NYC. The first pushback was "we don't list prices" (note ACA now makes them do it!). The second what "why do you care? Your insurance covers it." Eventually he got numbers. The price varied from $250 to $7000 if memory serves. Same equipment. Same staffing. What the Market would bear. Now remember this is the ChargeMaster number - aka what they bill the patient. What the Insurance ACTUALLY pays is not that. In fact the Patient may NEVER know what the Insurance ACTUALLY pays to the hospital. The same for all health services. The billing is to scare you into believing that prices will bankrupt you. The reality is in a fair Market Driven system they won't. Health Insurance uses similar funny math to claim low profit margins. But any decent forensic accountant will tell you every insurer has numerous shell companies in which to hide profit both on shore and off. And they leave the primary Corporation holding the losses to make profits seem low. Oh and they have massive real estate holdings. Just massive. So this is what you get when you allow a sector to grow without guardrails. They will bend and break the rules until someone investigates them. But who will. Congress should look into it but why would Congress not do so. I have a clue. Follow the money. The graph is of lobbying activity for the Healthcare segment. Not docs and nurses. Insurers, Pharma, equipment, etc. See a trend?
Best Congress money can buy. (Source OpenSecrets. org)
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u/Dangerous_Fun_1239 14d ago
I had an MRI done at Kaiser in California back in 2018. The receptionist showed me the bill they were going to submit to my insurance provider. $10,000. Of course that's in US dollars
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u/GS1223BW 14d ago
Because facility charges (technical fee) are paid differently when done at a hospital vs outpatient center. And the 2500 charge is also likely the uninsured charge (awful I know) and when insurance is billed, they will likely pay hospital less than the 2500.
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u/FluidFisherman6843 14d ago
Two words: Radiology assist
I needed a chest scan a couple of years ago. My co-pay and deductible were going to be $1400
I booked it through radiology assist and it was $300 cash. Same facility.
So now I am half a lung lighter and $1100 richer.
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u/im_new_here_4209 14d ago
The math is that people like health insurance CEOs can get ultra rich while your family members die of cancer. That's all the math there is to it.
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u/Capitan-IQ255 14d ago
Well yes .. we all want to know. Also let's check the reimbursement rates before Obamacare, and since 2010 after Obamacare was passed 🤑
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u/fishdad1977 14d ago
They do cost a ton to run and have to be energized constantly. We have too many machines it would be more efficient to run scans 24/7 but for some reason no one wants an MRI at 3am but the power is still on.
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u/InevitableSong3170 14d ago
yes!
And while he is at it, he should ask why hospitals bill insurance way way more than the Medicare negotiated rate - the publicly availble rate they already decided was ordinary, reasonbale, and FAIR.
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u/Butter_Brains 14d ago
Just had 3 MRIs done: c-spine, back, R hip
I kid you not, went to the billing window at the hospital today—brace yourself— 19K dollars !!
I do have insurance, so I will not be responsible for all of that. But the sticker shock—my god!!
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u/Rare_Bridge7703 14d ago
We thought it was okay for companies to offload the EXPENSES OF RUNNING A BUSINESS on us, while we receive zero of their profits.
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u/SherlockSnuffbox 14d ago
Obamacare limits insurance company profits/mandates what they spend on care to something like 20/80. The only way for the to increase how much money they can make is to increase how much everything costs.
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u/RJaguar9 14d ago
People wouldn't get insurance if they could afford paying for medical services. Having high cost of medical services is the key to prosperity of insurance companies. They literally don't care how much MRI costs, they pass this cost on to consumer.
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u/Accomplished_Rip_362 14d ago
It's not just MRIs. Had lipid panel done a few weeks ago. Insurance was 'billed' $170. Agreed 'discounted' price to the insurance was $7.98. Insurance paid $7.98. Like WTH is going on?
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u/Fortestingporpoises 14d ago
Y'know, unregulated capitalism kept that way thanks to legalized bribery of elected officials. Hope that clears it up.
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u/johnsk0513 14d ago
Absurd charges for medical services. Excessive salaries for many vice presidents and exceutives. Also, we have to pay for ER patients who are indigent ER patients who cannot be denied care.
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u/Sweaty_Antelope_7400 14d ago
Why did I pay $5200 for one while I was uninsured and unable to consent to one?
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u/Big77Ben2 14d ago
I like how he’s focusing on health care cost. I would also like to know where he came up with the 350.
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u/awesomedan24 14d ago
Hospitals mark up scans like crazy to cover the other costs of their facility overhead, unpaid ER vists etc. Its like the movie theater popcorn of healthcare. Its their cash cow.
Definitely need a single payer system to prevent this bullshit though. Ordinary people shouldn't need to pay extra to keep a hospital's lights on.
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u/Lilli_Puff 14d ago
Administrative redundancies. It's all the medical administrative work that goes into the process. Medical administration pays extremely well too so no only do you have to send all of information and get the okay from multiple places but you also have to pay each hand a very pretty penny to give that green light on everything. There are documentaries on this but overall you're largely paying for everything outside of the actual procedure in the US medical system.
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u/OrphisFlo 14d ago
I once paid 150 euros full price in France in the private sector (to avoid queues). 350 USD still seems a bit too high.
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u/RazzyRaziel 14d ago
Why does a military toilet cost 70k? Right, because they are skimming the money and use it on whatever they waint.
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u/JustinKase_Too 14d ago
While it is a somewhat valid question, I'm willing to bet the machine in the hospital has better clarity and has more staff behind supporting and reviewing the MRI itself. Doubt it is $2,150 worth of 'more', but I'd also like to see the delta between what the hospital catches v. the other place.
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u/Alternative_Pay_6496 14d ago
This is the case with all insurance. When you're forced to pay, the price inflates.
Go ask a collision shop how much it would cost to fix the dent in your bumper. Then have them run it through insurance. Suddenly the price magically doubles.
I know people want to hang insurance companies out to dry but they are only part of the problem. Honestly insurance is the easiest problem to fix. Its everything else that is jumbo fucked.
But the government struggles with the insurance problem so I have little hope anything gets better.
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u/AbyssWankerArtorias 14d ago
Because that's what they charge, not what they agree to get paid. Also when you get the scan done at the hospital, you're also paying for the interpretation of the scan by the doctor. The scan at a facility is just that, the scan, to then be provided to your doctor for interpretation and to develop a treatment plan.
That being said there's always exceptions and caveats. Sometimes hospitals have space in their hospital leased for another entity to run the scan and they're the ones who actually own the machine. Sometimes your doctor is out of network even if the hospital they're at is in the network. (Very stupid).
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u/Promature 14d ago
Sounds like someone is about to discover that health insurance is a huge circle of fraud.
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u/Monkeydoc68 14d ago
In a hospital setting the MRI revenue is used to offset losses on less profitable areas such as the ER.
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u/short_arm_t_rex 14d ago
It’s so insurance CEOs can become billionaires by overcharging and denying life saving care.
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u/ThoriatedFlash 14d ago
It is a good question, but I also question why he is asking it. I don't trust billionaires and don't think there are really any good ones out there. Some are just not quite as bad as the rest and just hire better PR firms.
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u/Jgrass66 14d ago
Can you provide the data that says MRIs “barely cost $350? Just looking for facts.
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u/TradingForLife123 14d ago
Probably because it costs at least $100,000 a day to run a hospital, and the MRI machine itself costs $1,000,000. And since it's specialized equipment you don't want the company making it to fail or society would not have MRI machines. So the company in question more than likely designs their product so every penny goes back to them because once new sales slowly dries up, the only way to keep the lights on are through parts sales and maintenance.
Jk. It's because corporations are evil.
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u/jonasnee 14d ago
I struggle to see how with all the expensive machinery time and the highly trained staff it would actually be possible to do this at 350 dollars.
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u/OrcOfDoom 14d ago
He should know. Things don't cost the price that they should cost. They cost the price that the market will bear.
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u/ShedMontgomery 14d ago
Why does health care cost anything?
Stop spending so much of my money on a cartoonish amount of military hardware and just cover people's healthcare costs.
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u/linzeestyle 14d ago
I know there are no ethical billionaires, but I do enjoy this guy staying on the government’s neck for essentially running a business very badly.
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u/Elf_Maeve 14d ago
They don't. It just shows up like it was 2500, so you pay the $500 deductible and the insurance pretends they paid $2000. Reality is you paid for the whole thing.
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u/Automatic_Yoghurt417 14d ago
It's like popcorn at a movie vs popcorn at the grocery store. But, instead of choosing to buy the popcorn yourself someone else does and/or you actually need it at that point in time. When you really need it, the price of popcorn goes up..
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u/acutelonewolf 14d ago
Because the insurance company owns the hospital. Therefore it's overpaying itself with patient premiums, which justify it raising premiums.
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u/nub_node 14d ago
All the medical administrators and insurance company executives having their secretaries send paperwork to each other have to be paid, frequently more than the MRI technician actually producing something that will be useful in treating the patient.