Ive "given up" on America as an outsider looking in.
Yes Trump is horrible, but he didn't get to power by himself, he was elected TWICE. The entire country is such a mess it honestly looks like a civil war is needed at one point.
"elected" twice. First time was with the assistance of Russian (impeached for it) second time was with the assistance of a S African billionaire that "knows voting machines"
See, this is the exact type of deflection of blame that I'm talking about when I say that we can't ever expect actual introspection from the American public. Even folks opposed to Trump can't own up to the fact that he got elected due to the fact that people either didn't care or liked the way in which he was shitty person.
Trump got elected in 2016 because people were tired of the status quo in the Federal government. We already did the Bush lineage, many people weren't interested in doing the Clinton lineage. And this wasn't just a right-wing extremist thing, either - things like Occupy Wall Street and Bernie Bros were examples of left wing sects who were unhappy with the status quo. And to make matters worse, the Democrat Party put a person on the ticket who had been pilloried by right-wing news sources for decades.
Trump got elected in 2024 because of the inflationary mess of Covid and Biden's refusal to step down and let the next generation of Democratic leaders have their turn.
You can say this is deflection of blame - although you'll agree it's very different than the blame being offered by the person you responded to - but I'd argue these are very salient reasons as to why people chose him over Hillary, and him over Biden in round 2.
Again, deflection. You're a country of 340 million people. You can't reasonably claim that the only reason you elected a pedophile narcissist who happily ruins your country's international standing is because you couldn't come up with a better alternative. And if that actually is the case, surely you realize that is just as much of a stunning condemnation of your country?
For fuck's sake, if you elect a fascist because you're tired of the status quo, then that's still fucking on you.
I think a lot of people lost hope in a future that was going to get better for everyone. Trump was elected the first time when Bernie Sanders was curbed for Hillary Clinton. It never should have happened that way imo, the democrat platform became all about social issues which was so retarded. Then Trump got elected a second time and people really shifted to getting involved in the election process again when they saw how destructive he is this term, most notably the younger generation and their protesting of ICE. I think itās possible that will inspire a generation of young voters that want progressive policy, at least I hope so.
What response would I have to give for you to say, "Ok, no deflection." It sounds to me that unless someone says, "We are a morally bankrupt nation of 340 million people who willfully and knowingly elect pedos," you are going to just say, "DEFLECTION!"
Is that about right?
Are there cogent explanations that don't end with, "we are nothing but 340 million idiots" that you will accept as an acceptable explanation?
It sounds to me that unless someone says, "We are a morally bankrupt nation of 340 million people who willfully and knowingly elect pedos," you are going to just say, "DEFLECTION!"
I mean... kinda, yeah. When you continue to make excuses for shitty choices that you and your countrymen have collectively made instead of, you know, simply owning up to them, then yes I will consider that be deflecting.
As I've said elsewhere, American Exceptionalism is too deeply ingrained in your collective psyche. You can't even acknowledge your actions, let alone make steps to atone for them.
Trying to understand and explain why something happened is not making excuses.
The reason Trump was elected was not because America is comprised of 340 million pedo-loving racists. That is a myopic and grossly incorrect view of things, and it's intellectually lazy.
I fully own the fact that Trump was elected twice, and I wholeheartedly agree that it was a shitty choice both times and even more so the second time because by then we knew better after having experienced Trump 45. What, exactly, do you think I should be doing to atone for those actions? 40 lashes as penance every morning? Penning a letter to a Canadian or European or Mexican citizen every day expressing my disgust with the current regime? What, exactly, do you have in mind?
Now you're twisting my words. I didn't say that they all love pedos or are all racists. Just that he got elected with people knowing (and largely not caring) that he was. When the country examined his actions, his words, and said "Yeah, we'll have some more of that", that is a damning condemnation of the morale character of the country as a whole.
What, exactly, do you think I should be doing to atone for those actions?
This is clearly not an individual problem, it's a collective problem. And the problem right now is that collectively the American public isn't doing a fucking thing to stop or even slow his actions. And the rest of the world is judging the actions of the country as a whole, and will use that to guide our decisions with regards to the country as a whole in the future.
I get that you dislike being lumped in with the rest of your countrymen, but, well, too fucking bad. Don't like it? Convince them to fucking do something to fix the issue. Instead of, you know, making excuses for your country's shitty choices on the internet, because again, the type of deflection that you're displaying here is making your country look worse, not better. When even the people who opposed him are making excuses for those who elected him, that's not a good look.
This is a discussion about geopolitics. You're lumped in with everyone else because that's things work. You are being affected by the actions of your countrymen because it's not like we negotiate a trade agreement only with those not supporting your protofascist state. Countries deal with countries.
And your country is being judged by every other country on the basis of the actions that you are collectively taking.
I didn't say that they all love pedos or are all racists. Just that he got elected with people knowing (and largely not caring) that he was.
I do agree that his elections are a stain on the moral character of our country. I sincerely thought he had no chance of winning after the "Grab them by the pussy" audio came out in his first campaign. I do find it mind-boggling that when I was growing up the Republican party was big on "family values," yet shrugged off his admission to sexual assault, multiple affairs, shady business practices, etc. It is disappointing.
A subset of the people didn't care about those issues and voted for him. Another subset of the people cared about his indiscretions but cared about something else more and held their nose when voting for Trump.
In an earlier comment you said:
You can't reasonably claim that the only reason you elected a pedophile narcissist who happily ruins your country's international standing is because you couldn't come up with a better alternative. And if that actually is the case, surely you realize that is just as much of a stunning condemnation of your country?
That is what I'm saying, and I do acknowledge that it is a condemnation of my country. I don't think it's particularly stunning because it's well-known that our political process has many flaws (e.g., first-past-the-post voting, an entrenched two-party system) and modern technology has allowed for ultra-effective and ultra-fine-tuned propaganda straight to our pockets that only divides an already large and diverse population even further and makes substantive change even harder.
Sure. And your political system, institutions and leaders weren't able to do fuck all about it, even with 4 years in the Whitehouse in between his terms.
I would have no way of knowing what side youāre on. My return post was based on your post with the come away that both sides are equally bad. Saying that people who agree with me are often āfucking moronsā is interesting. Are you recruiting or bragging? I donāt think thatās going to build a fan base amongst your āown people.ā š«Ŗ
The entire world also watches the American election cycle. We know Trump was leading the polls almost the entire time, and it only became kind of close near the very end.
And if the election was stolen, so what? That means you've had 3 rigged/stolen elections since 2000, and there have been zero consequences. Nobody has cared enough about American democracy to do anything but post about it on the internet. Why should we treat you any differently than any other dictatorship that holds sham elections?
Cool, what's your excuse for doing nothing about it?
You sad sacks can't even manage a general strike to save your own country.
Seems that as a people, you're quick to protest on Facebook, yet do nothing that would actually drive change because it'd cause you personal discomfort.
The collective attitude seems to be that you have too much to lose! Can't strike! That's scary! You'd all rather watch it fall apart and be destroyed around you.
It's sad to watch. Gone are the heroes you once were.
Literally every single protest movement in the U.S. got labeled as radical. This administration is using violence and the law to reinforce that historical trope. Most Americans are either too busy and/or too comfortable and/or too economically vulnerable to want to take on the risk.
Russian Collusion was never proven against Trump, and in fact, history has now shown that The Steele Dossier was completely fabricated by the DNC and Hillary Clinton. In fact, that supposed collusion was never part of the Impeachment.
If only there existed a vast network of information in which someone could just type in a question and get answers. All at your fingertips. That wouldāve pretty amazing.
You are correct. America has been getting looted and corrupted from the bottom to the top. The entire culture, society, and government need an overhaul.
Sadly the next civil war will also be a racial one because of the lasting effects of the last civil war. Its shocking how deeply racist this country still is. You still see confederate flags everywhere as a badge of honor.
Like, mofo you live in Connecticut and your parents immigrated in the 1970's. CT had regiments of all black men. Be proud of that. Nope. They reeeeeallllly want to say the n-word in hatred and get away with it. it's disgusting.
I see racism everywhere and itās not just white on black. Black people from all ages can be very racist. Iām married to a Cuban. Her mother is black her father is white. There is no racism in Cuba it is just very apparent in the USA. Then add to that a white president whose racism is very apparent plus he has the mentality of a 7 year old . Things have moved backwards in this country. I think racism today, here in the USA is as bad as Iāve ever seen it and Iāve lived here since 1984
Last fall I visited my home state of Michigan. Driving across the northern part to go get a hometown pizza I saw THREE confederate flags. I almost cried at what my home state has become.
Yes, an election was actually stolen and nobody did anything about it. Your democracy has been openly broken for decades and America decided it's okay with that.
What country are you from? The truth. Start with the truth and weāll work our way from that point. If you attempt to lie about your country, weāll nail you on it - so donāt.
Making sure the Wi-Fi works before we move in. Just kidding. Most of us have no interest in āannexingā your country. Stop thinking the mushroom dick orange pedo speaks for our majority because he does not. I think you already know that. Moving on. You all need to get it through your heads the magats are NOT the majority here. Not even close. Thereās a huge problem with magats in many countries across the world, including yours. We just got hit with this disease in a way that attracted the most attention first.
āCanada faces challenges from domestic right-wing populist and extremist networks that share rhetoric, tactics, and ideologies with the American MAGA movement. Observers often refer to this localized phenomenon informally as "Maple MAGA".ā
This is an increasing problem with S. Korea, United Kingdom, Germany, France, Australia, Hungary, Polandā¦ā¦..
Careful who you choose to dump on regarding this disease. We donāt own it any more than COVID or SNC-Lavalin. All countries have had problems with their heads doing corrupt things and ALL countries have got a problem with maga. Do you honestly believe none of this would have happened but for taco? Heās an idiot. He is the mastermind of nothing. Heās a pitiful puppet. He couldnāt lick his way through an ice cream cone. This is international dude. Wake up!
What country are you from? Letās examine your history of āleaders.ā Bet you donāt answer or at least truthfully. This would be assuming youāre even from another country. We get taquitos on here all the time pretending to be someone else. Of course, we also know magats are in multiple other countries as well. Which are you?
Yeh because all the other countries elected socialists or voting for mass illegal migration are doing so much better and totally not turning 3rd world.
Turn of your brain melting propaganda and get out more.
And even if what you say was true, which it isn't: a country that manages to make the wrong choice in an election where one option is a known child rapist really should sit down and shut up.
You don't even know what country I'm from dummy. Yeh congrats, let me know how those services go for you when the majority of the nation is the bottom lines on this graph, that you keep voting to import. will be such a happy place, just like Somalia
As a Canadian, for me it's the fact that they went back to him that makes me not trust that the US will ever learn and am fine with moving away from a relationship with the US and just have them as a neighbour we don't speak to that much
Then donāt! Man, I am sick to death of posts like this! Most of us hate this SOB and want him gone. YOU people as well as several other countries are having some pretty bad problems with pockets of magats too. How do you think this shit starts out until it takes hold? The U.S. was just their guinea pig. These assholes are just getting started across the world. Multiple countries! Your day is coming. Itās already in the works. Your foresight is 20/20, but only after the impact.
I'm trans. I would be dying as a partisan if it didnt mean losing my HRT. You get me my HRT independent of flimsy supply chains, and I'll have an Alash Kalishnikova aimed in the right direction in no time.
Of course he didnāt get where he is by himself! Too idiotic to lick his way through an ice cream cone! These people are all over the world, including your little part. Better wake up!
Yeah thats kinda my point. It doesnt matter whos the next president at this point. Both sides are guilty for getting to this point. The fact that its still just two parties is madness.
āCanada faces challenges from domestic right-wing populist and extremist networks that share rhetoric, tactics, and ideologies with the American MAGA movement. Observers often refer to this localized phenomenon informally as "Maple MAGA".ā
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u/Humledurr 2d ago
Ive "given up" on America as an outsider looking in.
Yes Trump is horrible, but he didn't get to power by himself, he was elected TWICE. The entire country is such a mess it honestly looks like a civil war is needed at one point.