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u/armyfidds 2d ago
You can still do all of that shit
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u/gufranthakur 2d ago
no, dont have the time anymore. Because of LLMâs companies and everyone expects everything to get shipped quickly :((
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u/iggy14750 2d ago
What he's saying is, off the clock, you can play with that stuff if you want.
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u/heytheretaylor 2d ago
Thatâs true but for me personallyâŠ
1) I have other responsibilities that are not coding
2) I used to get paid to do something I loved so when I did it off the clock it was still additive to my career.Itâs less âI can never do this againâ and more âthis used to be more fun and I got paid to do itâ.
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u/cyn_foxwell 2d ago
your second point is why i will never and will always try to prevent others from turning their hobbies into hourly jobs
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u/KaiFireborn21 1d ago
To be fair, it's not good to sit 50 hours a week doing something you absolutely hate... Basically no win possible
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u/cyn_foxwell 1d ago
i never said or implied you have to do something you hate, it could be something youre vaguely interested in. i just more mean primary focus hobbies shouldnt become your job if its something you enjoy in your free time
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u/gufranthakur 2d ago
the condition is "off-the clock". Before lockdown when I was still in high school I had a lot of time to build and experiment. Now there is less of that free time
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u/rutinerad 2d ago
But that has nothing to do with neither the industry (that this thread is about) nor LLMs (that you commented).
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u/ryuzaki49 2d ago
It has to do with life but that has always been the case.Â
I recommend not having kids. That way you can enjoy having a life and coding from scratch
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u/Worldly-Stranger7814 2d ago
I recommend not having kids. That way you can enjoy having a life and coding from scratch
I've plenty of kids and plenty of code output in my free time. Git gud nub.
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u/Disastrous_Can_5157 2d ago
Talking about the industry implied work, it had nothing to do with of the clock activities. There was no reason to bring up what they can or not do off the clock.
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u/rutinerad 1d ago
What the hell are you talking about?
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u/Disastrous_Can_5157 1d ago
You misunderstood what OP was saying, so I was correcting you.
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u/rutinerad 1d ago
Of course. When the guy I was responding to said âwhen I was in high schoolâ he clearly meant âworking in the industryâ. Thank you very much for your correction.
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u/Disastrous_Can_5157 1d ago
You almost had it . He mentioned high school as a comparison, not that it was an issue mentioned in this thread. Don't worry about it buddy, just work on your reading comprehension so you don't make the mistake again next time.
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u/Wide_Smoke_2564 1d ago
They donât miss doing it. They miss feeling like the smartest guy in the room for solving puzzles real good.
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u/Funky_Dunk 1d ago
Or maybe it's as simple as there are people that started this career because they get genuine satisfaction from the problem solving aspect. And the offloading of that to LLMs removes that joy.
If you feel belittled because people like that exist I think that's a you problem. If you get no satisfaction or sense of achievement from overcoming challenges, that's a you problem.
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u/kupo-puffs 2d ago
did jobs really allow for 2D pixel art games? weren't those usually passion projects
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u/gufranthakur 2d ago
What I meant was, everyone is too busy working for Jobs, or looking for jobs, we dont have time to work on passion projects and build things from scratch (unless you are being sponsored to build a game engine from scratch, or somehow making out time to do so)
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u/yumii- 2d ago
How did the advent of AI tools make you lose free time outside of work?
Bro find a new job lmao
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u/gufranthakur 2d ago
With AI, people are shipping features way faster. People are making software (even if it slop) way faster. Companies expect you to ship things faster as well. Clients want things faster as well. And the industry is moving fast.
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u/hearthebell 2d ago
Bro, with the chaos of AI bring, if we wanna survive and have a chance to be an opposing force, the last thing we should do is think we ran out of time and panic.
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u/moistiest_dangles 2d ago
I'm getting pushed to automate a bunch of stuff through agentic frameworks, I actually don't have time to verify a large chunk of the code, only inputs / outputs.
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u/throw3142 2d ago
I tried doing this a couple of times, because everybody keeps hyping up this workflow. "Just write some tests, verify the inputs & outputs and let AI write the actual code!"
It never works like that. AI writes the dumbest, least extensible code. When you ask it to add new features, it adds workarounds instead of fixing the rot at the core of its architecture. It doesn't know how to actually fix bugs, it just catches all the exceptions so it looks like it's working.
The behavior gets worse and worse over time, since all these AI labs keep benchmarking on one-shot implementations. If you keep training your models to one-shot more & more complex prompts, you're bound to end up with this kind of slop. It "works on the first try" in the same way as a tech demo at a hackathon.
I won't deny that AI is useful. It is faster to prompt than it is to manually type. I use it like a fancy keyboard. But I'm not giving up my critical thinking to a bot anytime soon.
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u/quagzlor 2d ago
Geez, that's crazy. We use Claude a lot in our workflows now but we always code review and scrutinise things
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u/audiowave_io 2d ago
When there are 10 open PR's with 5-20KLOC and un-realistic deadlines, things start getting rubber stamped.
Editing at the function level with Github Copilot in it's early days (but running on a modern model) is my ideal world. I got yelled at by my client (also a software dev, both of us in the 15+ YoE) that I shouldn't even have an IDE open. I terminated that contract a few months later.
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u/quagzlor 2d ago
Eeesh yeah. In fortunate that our company prioritises accuracy and quality.
Plus our workflows are more micro service styled, so they're easier to modify too
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u/_Decimation 2d ago
I got yelled at by my client (also a software dev, both of us in the 15+ YoE) that I shouldn't even have an IDE open. I terminated that contract a few months later.
These people should be stripped of their titles. Absolutely embarrassing for them and the industry as a whole that this is happening.
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u/IAmWeary 2d ago
Claude does the code review, too. Nobody has time to really go through it and nobody really understands the codebase anymore anyway.
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u/seba07 2d ago
Shouldn't you have more time then ever for it? While the agent is doing the coding you're getting paid for, you can do the programming you actually like. (half /s)
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u/Funky_Dunk 1d ago
I know this is a half /s but the context switching of jumping between different LLM chat sessions is really unpleasant and adding a personal code project in the middle of that isn't feasible to most people.
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u/cce29555 2d ago
K, start your own company then
It's too hard
Then damn you are subject to the whims of the machine, it sucks but this is how it's been for like, centuries
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u/pricklysteve 2d ago
Not only can you still do it, but some people even make a living out of it. Take for example people making Pico8 games, whether their income stems from the games directly or from content creation (streaming, YouTube videos, etc), or something like Patreon.
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u/Deathclawrostik999 2d ago
I still do much of that on weekends; takeMeBack is mostly about fewer distractions.
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u/EveryCryptographer11 2d ago
It was just a very different feeling. For me at least, even âhello worldâ felt different than an entire function/module written by AI. I guess itâs just me being nostalgic of the old days đ
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u/gufranthakur 2d ago
I was making games in Java swing on sublime text (my old laptop couldnt handle intelliJ) before the LLM era
I used to spend hours on a old and clunky laptop, never got bored. Never finished the game but I learned a lot about OOP
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u/EveryCryptographer11 2d ago
Swing was one weird thing. I donât know much about UI so it might something cool for many people. No shade on that. đ
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u/JonTheCopycat 2d ago
Yeah the pride of having gone through the effort to actually making something. It's the feeling that is stopping me from even trying AI coding. It feels illogical, but I get this feeling like it's an insult to me somehow.
I guess I treat it a bit like how AI art gets treated, even though it's not quite the same.
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u/Unknown_User2137 2d ago
I am in one project rn where because of the pacing (and ppl from the client team vibe-coding stuff like crazy) we are basically forced to use LLMs. One part of this is that codebase is an incomprihensible garbage and other is that the development speed expectations effectively make it impossible to get familiar with the code.
So you just spend whole day prompting coding agent to get things done and tell it if something is broken or not matching the expected outcome. After few days I just got
lazyinnovative, made a skill where it can just build code and run it on it's own then fix stuff based on that (basically explained structure, where to run what etc.) you just sit there and be like "What am I even doing there?".It spits out so much spaghetti code that you don't have time to effectively review it manually (especially if you never coded in language they are using in project lol) so you just take a glance if it is "LGTM" and file a PR (usually 500-1k lines). Then reviewer runs another LLM to review this, ofc it tells you there are bunch of issues, you give it back to the agent it fixes that and this is how your day goes - just prompting back and forth.
Personally I get this uncanny valley vibe that I don't really contribute anything other than being a âš prompter âš or any sense of ownership. First I tried to actually review the code but now I just idgaf and test whether it works or not and if tests (LLM written ofc) pass.
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u/JonTheCopycat 2d ago
Wow... I hate it. I wish they would stop trying to replace our thinking. Also hate that it in its own way it works at a seemingly unmatchable pace.
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u/Unknown_User2137 2d ago
It is fast indeed, much faster than any human would ever be. Also I hate that I have to use it instead of it being voluntary (in this specific project). It is of great help when dealing with things like boilerplate and documentation but higher-ups got it all wrong (including effects of FOMO and hype) and just want everything to be built using LLMs exclusively. My hot take is - You can't learn to drive by watching others drive. You must take the steering wheel by yourself. Practice, learn, gain experience, improve.
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u/smulfragPL 2d ago
Definetly not true in software. People know How to code in python without knowing c, and know How to code in c without Assembly. Lllms are Just Another abstraction. You just have to focus on big picture shit instead of syntax. Also you can Read syntax without necessarily being able to write it
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u/audiowave_io 2d ago
but now I just idgaf and test whether it works or not and if tests (LLM written ofc) pass
I used to care about the quality of my code at the places I worked. Now I only do the bare minimum functionality checks if even that, when someone else's load bearing vibe slop will just overwrite it in the next PR for absolutely no reason.
My personal projects still get the real love.
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u/Unknown_User2137 2d ago
Same here. It's like why even care if they just take bulldozer (AI) and rework it however it feels like.
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u/IAmWeary 2d ago
I feel this so much. It's LLM shit all the way down and that's unlikely to ever change.
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u/hamper01 2d ago
I get curious when I hear about workflows this (in my opinion) unhinged: what is the actual monetary cost of having code written this way?Â
In my somewhat limited experience the bigger models can run into scores or even hundreds of dollars for an hour of work. If the codebase is as messy and comment-filled as I fear it would get the cost to do anything would seemingly go up exponentially.
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u/ThisDirkDaring 2d ago
Thats not humor, not at all. Its a precise description of where i am at.
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u/ItsSadTimes 2d ago
I got into this job because I like solving problems. Every new coding problem was a fun mental exercise. But now most of my job is just reviewing AI code and fixing truckloads of mundane problems that should never have been pushed to production.
I still code somewhat, but now new problems keep coming up so fast that I cant address old ones. The oldest bug in my backlog is now 6 months old and keeps getting pushed back because it doesnt crash the service like the new bugs. My backlog used to be clear because I fixed problems as fast as they showed up. And god forbid if the AIs didagree with me, then no one approves my work until I spend several hours proving every point they can come up with wrong making even tiny fixes a whole ordeal.
I used to love my job, and now because of everyone around me I hate it.
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u/Amerillo_ 2d ago
I like battery-included frameworks, they make things easier and you still feel like you're building something by yourself. LLMs are fine for asking questions or brainstorming or quickly testing ideas however I strongly dislike letting AI agents do all the work while you take the role of a sort of manager. I wish companies weren't forcing that onto employees. At some point I'll get sick of it and I'll have bo choice but to switch careers to stay sane
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u/SI7Agent0 2d ago
I used about 35% of my token quota last month for the Gemini agents they installed at my job, and they told me I need to start using more tokens. They want to see at least 90% of the quota reached every month since they're already paying for it with the license lol.
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u/hamper01 2d ago
If it's paid for up front I'm with them. Make sure Google lose every dollar possible for this loss-leading slop machine.
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u/Unknown_User2137 2d ago
I would just ask it to generate as much code as it can for every change lol
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u/mylsotol 2d ago
Who is stopping you?
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u/gufranthakur 2d ago
Rapidly growing industry, job market, competition. Simply dont have the time to enjoy making games from scratch when I have to compete out there. Have you seen the insane job requirements out there? Especially if you live in a country like india where there is insane competition and high unemployment rates
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u/VegetarianZombie74 2d ago
My dude ... get your head out of the grind and invest in the things you love. You can study thirty minutes a day to stay relevant. Shit goes by fast, and joy can be fleeting.
Also, if you act like a pack horse, they'll treat you like a pack horse. And make no mistake, they send you to the glue factory at a moment's notice. This is about you. Not them. Fuck them. They aren't worth your happiness.
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u/gufranthakur 2d ago
Thanks for the advice. I try to enjoy building things in free time but lets be honest, we all need to get jobs, earn, and get a better stand of living. you HAVE to compete out there.
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u/VegetarianZombie74 2d ago
Well - one other piece of advice from a grey beard who has done the grind ... live beneath your means and have zero debt. Zero. Have an emergency fund and save.
When they come for you (and they will) and they tell you that you no longer meet their expectations and that someone else is "out-competing" you for half your salary or they think a chatbot can replace you, you can tell them to fuck off.
Then you can find someone who does appreciate your talents. Good luck man!
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u/WhoRoger 2d ago
Bullshit. The only thing competing with 2D pixel art are thousands of other pixel art projects, and that's been the case for 20 years now, AI or not. Your game idea probably isn't special and a ton of other game designers had the exact same idea.
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u/Boring_Actuator348 1d ago
missing the days when coding felt simpler and less overwhelming, now itâs all about constant updates and frameworks
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u/neoronio20 2d ago
You can still do that. No jobs required 2d pixel art for a long time now. AĂ has nothing to do with it
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u/Arcanium_Walker 2d ago
I feel this. I doing my thesis project (TUI framework in C#, where I try to implement ECS/OOP hybrid with declarative UI from scratch) and this feels like magical and proud at the same time to me. I only use AI to describe some information for me, but I never ask ever generate code for me, or "what the solution XY"; if I use like that, then I can't feel the project as mine.
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u/firemark_pl 1d ago
Pixelart is broken too by shaders. Each 3d game can be "pixelart" now. Just drop colors, resolution, add dithering and it's done!
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u/MasterMach50 1d ago
I recently went back to hand coding, there is an entire community of llm free devs at codeberg.
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u/WhoRoger 2d ago
What is stopping you from doing it? If you make 2D pixel art crap, you're an indie anyway, because no big studio makes those. So do what you want?
People are acting as if just because AI tools are available, you can't do your own art or coding of research. Nobody is holding a gun to your head.
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u/gufranthakur 2d ago
You missed the point of the post. This isnt about comparing the two. The industry has moved to fact faced development, everything is shipped quickly, and everyone is competing. The job market keeps getting difficult. Most people who programmed these 2D games from scratch, can no longer do it now due to how much the industry has changed and demands production-level stuff from juniors
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u/Fusseldieb 2d ago edited 2d ago
I mean, hate on me, but I have realized many of my pet projects with AI that would've taken me months of full-time work. Now I basically steer it, check if the thing it did made sense, and get so much projects done. I actually feel empowered with all this AI tooling.
But that's me, YMMV..
EDIT: Reddit hivemind says AI bad
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u/hurricane_news 2d ago
Now I basically steer it, check if the thing it did made sense, and get so much projects done. I actually feel empowered with all this AI tooling.
So you went from programming your pet projects to being a project manager where the LLM does most of the actual building then?
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u/Fusseldieb 2d ago
And whatâs wrong with that?
I still check the code, I steer it when it inevitably does BS, and stuff gets done.
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u/hurricane_news 2d ago
You missed my point
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u/Fusseldieb 2d ago
I still enjoy it, so⊠what gives?
I even go as far as saying that I enjoy it more now than back then because you can move mountains in a fraction of the time.
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u/drivingagermanwhip 2d ago
sublime text is only 18 years old. 'The industry' moved away from handmade pixel art in the mid 90s
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u/GreatThoughtsJR 2d ago
Hard truth: You guys just remember the rewarding few seconds when you accomplished something. I understand that. But you can also get this feeling with agentic driven development and ship much faster. You can make your dream game real and not just a prototype you never publish. Don't look back. Always go forward.
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u/ymddev 2d ago edited 2d ago
remember hand-crafted ASCII art?