r/ProtonMail 20h ago

Possible bug This is unacceptable

Post image
0 Upvotes

139 comments sorted by

u/Proton_Team Proton Team Admin 14h ago

Earlier today, a subset of Proton users experienced intermittent service disruptions.

The incident began during exceptional database maintenance following last week's datacenter overheating incident. The maintenance had been tested and was expected to cause only a brief disruption.

However, the switchover exposed additional instability under high load, and this forced us to remove some additional infrastructure from service and operate at reduced capacity for a time.

We have now stabilized all Proton services and all are currently operational. No user data has been lost. We apologize for the disruption.

27

u/btk667 19h ago

I understand that incidents happen and that no provider can control everything. However, this is becoming a serious issue for Proton’s brand image.

Email availability is critical. People rely on it for business communications, account recovery, security alerts, invoices, and time-sensitive messages. Seeing “residual hardware failures” and “reduced capacity” after last week’s overheating incident is worrying.

My main concern is not just temporary access to my mailbox: are incoming emails being safely queued, delayed, bounced, or potentially lost?

Privacy is important, but reliability is equally essential for an email provider. I hope Proton provides clear reassurance about message delivery, data integrity, and the steps being taken to prevent this from happening again.

6

u/sndrtj 18h ago

This. Email is fundamental here. If dealing with reduced capacity they need to prioritize services. Degraded performance for Lumo? Fine, I can live with that for a while. Meet or Drive? Annoying. But email is critical.

7

u/pincq 18h ago

TLDR: You won't lose mail, but it might be delayed when proton returns.

SMTP (the internet's email system) was written in the 1980s when connectivity was flaky.

  1. Lost emails: If the sender's server can't reach the receiving inbox, it keeps trying until it succeeds.
  2. Delayed / queued: Re-attempts reduce in frequency over time, so you might receive a delayed message after proton returns.
  3. Bounced: Bouncing requires the receiving server to actively return a fail message to the sending server.

2

u/GraniteRock 16h ago

Got a new car and they wanted me to activate the phone app. I had fun waiting for my account email confirmation activation code for the app for 20+ minutes. He kept saying using it takes a few seconds and I'm like maybe they're selling alot of cars today. 😆😆

But the queue did work. Some of my failed attempts, I got the activation code two hours later. 😆

7

u/txurete 19h ago

While i agree that outages happen and its not that much of a big deal i cant but feel that is happening more often than some years back.
I got locked out of proton pass and this is much worse than just not being able to send or receive emails...
I woke up to my pass logged out on all my devices. That's really not chill and thank god i have a backup for my 2fa of proton itself.

There is an important criticism to be had here, deal with it is not a reasonable response this time...

6

u/00137 18h ago

Any update it's been 2 hours and can't access my emails...

"Something went wrong

We couldn't load this page. Please refresh the page or check your internet connection."

6

u/Ill_Celebration1528 18h ago

Seriously! What is the forecast for timing resolution? When will the service be restored? In 10 minutes? 1 hour? 5 hours? 1 day?

2

u/maned3v 18h ago

It's not a cake, i seriously doubt they know how much time is going to need

51

u/xSvid 20h ago edited 20h ago

Unacceptable in what way?

Every company can have incidents and outages.

12

u/iamfab0 19h ago

OP demands 99.99% SLA uptime for a $10 per month subscription at best

7

u/LaserRanger 18h ago

Businesses use Proton too

1

u/maned3v 17h ago

There is still a SLA that is not 99.99

2

u/Stahlreck 17h ago

Their ToS actually say they provide a 99.95% service. Curious to see if they will make good on that but maybe not because this could fall under "issues caused by factors outside of the Company’s reasonable control"

That said, IMO this sentiment is quite silly. There's no real need to defend Proton on this. To also be a bit of a devils advocate, it's not like they could've fixed their redundancy weak points in such a short time but I do hope they address these going forward so this whole service is less likely to depend on one data center.

1

u/InjectedFusion 17h ago edited 17h ago

Thank you for being the voice of reason. 99.95% comes out to ~4 hours and 22 minutes of downtime a year. I counted on this TOS (SLA) when I purchased Proton and decided to move my business email here.

https://uptime.is/99.95

Yes, I understand servers are expensive; I'm in the infrastructure game, but there are PLENTY of CPU/Memory servers on the market (non-GPU-based workload), and sure, it's a memory squeeze; prices are higher, but server hardware is bought, sold, and resold all the time), But what I heard was that datacenter maintenance happened unannounced, which means we have poor vendor management of the datacenter colo (communications, expectations, choice). That means that Proton is accountable for their vendors.

-30

u/jnighy 19h ago

a company should have redundancies to deal with this

27

u/Patient_Welcome9062 19h ago

for example microsoft ?
source: https://status.cloud.microsoft/

9

u/MoldyGoatCheese 19h ago

Pretty sure an entire platform being down isn't comparable to an AI chat resource. Password Managers are pretty mission critical, they should have some sort of dr/contingency plan in-place, even if that means offline access (like literally everyone else.)

18

u/xSvid 19h ago

Just like Cloudflare and Azure where almost half of the internet went down because of this?

Stuff happen, at least proton from what i see is pretty transparent and share everything to their users.

No company will give you an SLA of 100%, failures can happen.

-16

u/treasoro 19h ago

half of internet went down because they didn't have redundancy. If they had multiple DC setup from azure, they'd be fine

4

u/hectop20 19h ago

If Proton had servers in Azure you couldn't ensure privacy

7

u/xSvid 19h ago

Just for a reference this is from my admin panel with microsoft 365. See? Stuff can happen.

2

u/EveYogaTech 19h ago

Yes and no, they should investigate the root cause and implement a solution.

Hardware redundancy can be a part of the solution, but overall it's often better to first focus on finding the root cause before quickly jumping to solutions.

The one big mistake I do see them keep making is underplaying the downtime and number of people affected.

Transparency and honestly are needed for trust, especially with sensitive and critical infra.

1

u/rslarson147 Linux | iOS 19h ago

A total DC loss is catastrophic and takes weeks if not longer for a full recovery depending on the damage.

0

u/evolvecrow 19h ago

Sure but all companies have issues. What you gonna do, leave all of them?

-1

u/MalevolentPact 19h ago

Genuinely, what would your protocol be to combat this as a CEO?

-16

u/InjectedFusion 19h ago edited 19h ago

Unacceptable, because Proton already identified this known risk scenario after the August 27 datacenter heating/cooling Incident; this could have been mitigated by already having provisioned failover or additional capacity infrastructure, but they did not.

"While we were able to save almost all of the infrastructure, some servers unfortunately suffered heat death, and we don’t know yet if the heating incident will impact the lifespan of the surviving equipment."

https://www.reddit.com/r/ProtonMail/s/upnKJXeSHd

6

u/A_Buttholes_Whisper 19h ago

Hilarious you’re being down voted when you are 100% correct. The boot looking is strong in the sub

3

u/Icy-Extent6095 18h ago

Do you know how long does it take to buy, deploy and configure server infrastructure? This isn't Amazon where u get your shit delivered doorstep the next day.

2

u/Icy-Extent6095 18h ago

Proton owns servers. They can't just add more servers with a single click.

2

u/maned3v 17h ago

You know getting new hardware could take a LOT of time, especially during august? We're talking weeks

3

u/No_Advance_4218 19h ago

How are they going to mitigate hardware failure in 4 days. As of now it takes literal months to buy / replace hardware. Short of removing the entire datacentre from their reduncancy plans, this cant be mitigated in 72ish hours.

-4

u/HotConstruction978 18h ago

agreed, no service has 100% uptime

17

u/Informal_Strain_165 20h ago

Damage bigger than initially anticipated maybe?

Sucks but should only be temporary hopefully

11

u/Creative_Lime_501 19h ago

Losing access to my proton pass is really not ideal.

3

u/boldjoy0050 19h ago

Yes, email is one thing but not having access to passwords is ridiculous.

2

u/reddit_sublevel_456 19h ago

Yes, offline mode not operating as intended this morning.

1

u/Legitimate-Leave4770 18h ago

Even the offline mode is affected? I've used KeePassXC, now I use 2FAS Pass, both are offline by default, never had any issues accessing my passwords.

1

u/reddit_sublevel_456 17h ago

Yes, mine dropped into offline mode, started having issues, then logged me out completely with an invalid access token. Something went very wrong today.

1

u/FaceStriking1558 19h ago

Passwords are cached in the phone app

1

u/ProfessionalMove3716 18h ago

You may want to consider KeePassXC instead and just use ProtonDrive to sync it.

1

u/ra1kk 19h ago

That's why I'm luckily at 1Password with my passwords. Never put everything in 1 basket.

1

u/tkchumly 18h ago

1password could have an outage too. 

1

u/pettydecline 18h ago

I’m with you. Even though I have unlimited, I still use Bitwarden. Should anything happen to protons services, I’m not totally boned.

3

u/ChubbyWabbit 19h ago

No such thing as 100% SLA. It is to be expected that outages can happen back to back especially after dealing with heat damage. Heat is one of the worst ways hardware can get damaged as they are only rated to a certain temp. High temps mean unexpected and random failures. They is why cooling is the most critical thing in a datacenter. You got to give them credit for being honest and open. They also have been working on expanding their infrastructure, which does not happen overnight. Its a methodical process.

3

u/ProfessionalMove3716 18h ago

How many sites does Proton use? Assuming they have multiple hot sites (no pun intended), how could an overheating incident knock out redundant servers at backup sites?

3

u/Asleep_Pattern8553 18h ago

I‘m gonna move as soon as my paid year ends. Proton left me behind twice in less of 2 weeks. I can‘t Access my Account at law Environments because Proton is offline.

9

u/darkhorseMBA 19h ago

Outages happen. Anyone who has worked in technology, especially infrastructure, can tell you this happens. Yes, it sucks. Just deal with it. I hope it gets resolved soon.

2

u/Smash0573 19h ago

I'm still dealing with an exchange outage with work. Since yesterday. Business impacting for many people so it happens to them all... 

-36

u/jnighy 19h ago

"just deal with it" is not an acceptable response for a paid product. A company that provides this type of services should have redundancies in place to deal with this type of problems

10

u/CaptainSkarn 19h ago

You have all of the outrage and none of the knowledge, my man.

1

u/uhp787 19h ago

i love this :D

10

u/shyouko macOS | iOS 19h ago

AWS, Azure, GCP, Oracle all had failed. Try self hosting if this is unacceptable?

0

u/A_Buttholes_Whisper 19h ago

Luckily Gmail is free so that doesn’t hurt as bad as this

2

u/mstermind 19h ago

That's because you're the product. I'm glad it doesn't hurt you. Using enough lube helps.

-2

u/A_Buttholes_Whisper 19h ago

My point is Gmail is free so their outages are less annoying. As a paid customer I expect proton to have redundancies in place. All the “deal with it” comments are ignoring. I run my own services at home and I have redundancy in place. It’s not difficult

-2

u/ba-boo 18h ago

hope you're using enough lube while using reddit

2

u/mstermind 18h ago

Don't need to worry about me, son. I'm not the one raging here.

-2

u/ba-boo 18h ago

you're the one crying about someone else being the product while you're the product

1

u/mstermind 18h ago

Are you his dad? Is that why you're suddenly defending a random guy on Reddit.

Touch some grass and ask for the laptop back.

-1

u/ba-boo 18h ago

why are you crying so much?

→ More replies (0)

3

u/SquishyJeans 19h ago

It literally is and they do. Go bitch somewhere else. You remember AWS failing last year?

8

u/Flashy-Bandicoot889 19h ago

If it's unacceptable to you, then there are plenty of other email providers out there you can move to.

2

u/okie_dokie68416 19h ago

Exactly right and that is what I'm going to do. However, I had JUST been trying to look into an alternate to Gmail and Proton Mail was an option until it wasn't. Apple it is I guess.

2

u/GSh-47 18h ago

ew... In a world full of amazing secure email providers, you picked apple ?

3

u/Brodween 19h ago

Apple is your best option ? You can go back to gmail then, why bother changing if it's to go to the other big US corp.

0

u/Accomplished_Ear2304 macOS | iOS 18h ago

I mean, Apple over Google, but you're on the right track.

2

u/Brodween 18h ago

Both the same but you're an iOS enjoyer so you're a bit biased.

8

u/LeftLiner 19h ago

Eh. Outages happen.

2

u/SpiritedBug2221 19h ago

And now it seems like their mobile website is down (haven’t tried it on my laptop yet but am not feeling hopeful it would be any better). Barely loaded and looked bizarre.

6

u/20_42fps Windows | Linux | macOS | Android 19h ago

Deal with it. Stuff like that happen.

4

u/MrMonk-112 19h ago

The level of entitlement is hilarious. Your life has been way too easy.

2

u/Nev3r_Pro 19h ago

Email and proton pass is critical, I need to login to my brokerage account right now.

0

u/Soggy_Refrigerator32 Windows | Android 19h ago

You as a user bear some responsibility for building redundancy into critical tasks. Eggs, basket.

5

u/SquishyJeans 19h ago

Legitimately amazing seeing the straight up obnoxiousness of individuals thinking companies should never have downtime at all for maintenance. Even fucking Apple does this. 

On top of that they’re literally telling you what’s happening. 

If we are using OP’s logic then OP should have a backup email provider for redundancy. 

Dumbass 

2

u/TehBeast 17h ago

It's the impatient Gen Z victim mentality

1

u/SquishyJeans 16h ago

Yeah some other jerk off is mad about it too and arguing with me lol

2

u/Nev3r_Pro 19h ago

The thing is Proton provides critical services to everyday life like proton pass and proton mail, I need to log in to my brokerage account but I can't access proton pass for my password so I've tried to reset it but I can't login to proton mail. It's unacceptable.

1

u/SquishyJeans 19h ago

I have all of those as well. Is today the first day you’re unable to do that?

1

u/A_Buttholes_Whisper 19h ago

They have a single data center and no redundancy. What a moronic way to run a business

Dumbass

-2

u/SquishyJeans 19h ago

Someone’s a salty bitch lol. 

Would you rather they just not told you what happened? 

HEY EVERYONE THIS GUY KNOWS BETTER THAN PROTON ^

1

u/A_Buttholes_Whisper 19h ago

Why are neck beards so mouthy? Anyways I rather they had a failback server to route email through while fixing the down data center.

Actually everyone, I DO know better. Even my servers have failback

Bro is yapping like a little puppy man

4

u/LibrarySpiritual5371 19h ago

My question is will Proton rebate me my lost service ($) to adequately reflect the use I did not get.

3

u/9Nine2Nine9 19h ago

I completely understand the sentiment here, as this is incredibly inconvenient. Yet, to be quite honest, there is not much Proton could have done about last week's outage or the current one. Both AC systems failing simultaneously is incredibly rare, and a DC heats up very quickly if there is no AC.

The data center seems truly at fault here. Doing maintenance on both your AC systems at the same time is just stupid. Beyond that even, it is willfully ignorant. I hope Proton has them pay for all the damage they did at current market pricing, so that we don't pay the bill for this.

4

u/Accomplished_Ear2304 macOS | iOS 18h ago

Redundancy is within their control, though.

2

u/djaxial 18h ago

100%. Hot failover to another site was my base assumption, but it's clear they have a single point of failure here, which is absolutely insane.

3

u/Inproba 19h ago

Time for the OP to live in the "stone age" at least everything was sturdy then.

3

u/belidzs 18h ago

what's even more interesting is that your post had zero votes, I've added an up vote and within seconds someone downvoted it back to zero. Wonder who pays for bots to do this

1

u/00137 18h ago

Yeah same i saw your reply went to upvote then instantly the bots set it to 0. Shame

2

u/Dissaor 19h ago

Yeah... and proton pass is down, so im locked out... I was waiting to move out but I guess its gonna have to be sooner than later, it took me a long time to convince my wife to move here and its been issue over issue... lol damn Murphy law

1

u/Bentoni 19h ago

Have you checked out Outlook? It is down for more than 20 hours and still not working!

2

u/A_Buttholes_Whisper 19h ago

No it’s not…I’m using it right now at work

1

u/voxellation 18h ago edited 17h ago

I can now open my mailbox but I have tried sending two test emails and neither has made it to the external account even though they say sent on Protons side

2

u/sleepware- 18h ago

same :(

1

u/c_vdc 18h ago

It seem to work again for me

1

u/YiZK 19h ago

We get it, everyone is upset. No company is perfect, we know SOP’s we’re not followed which lead up to the failures - but where someone like u/andy1011000 shines is by being transparent. As a leader in IT, I’m a strong believer that one is always learning and always improving.

1

u/King-Ed-7s-Cacti 19h ago

I have a decade in with them, It probably won't make me pivot, but damn, we should get a bonus storage slot or something if they can find one in the embers of the Frankfurt fire or whatever.

1

u/Sheik-Shack 18h ago

We use proton to receive payments and our payments are in limbo? If this becomes more frequent it will affect our cashflow

-3

u/ehansen 20h ago

I get the can't help what they can't control but I've decided to migrate since my plan is almost up for renewal anyways.

0

u/EverquestCleric 18h ago

I dunno, I've been using the service for free for a long time and this is the only prolonged series of outages I remember. Pretty acceptable to me.

0

u/Accomplished_Ear2304 macOS | iOS 18h ago

Insane this has gone on so long today.

-5

u/A_Buttholes_Whisper 19h ago

I agree with you. Telling paid customers to deal with it is wrong. When Gmail or Microsoft go down at least I’m not paying for the services

-5

u/[deleted] 19h ago

[deleted]

1

u/No_Advance_4218 19h ago

I wouldnt move to Microsoft then. They have been working through an email outage for the past 24 hours which still isnt fixed..

-1

u/ParaWM 19h ago

Outrageous ! (kiddin', Proton ftw!)

-2

u/Flashy-Bandicoot889 17h ago

Don't listen to the zealots. Apple is just fine and scores high for privacy. You'll be fine. The new CEO of Apple isn't going to gobble up your emails 😅

0

u/[deleted] 16h ago

[deleted]

1

u/Flashy-Bandicoot889 16h ago

Dude, come on. That's an article from 2022. 🤦🏼

1

u/[deleted] 16h ago

[deleted]

1

u/Flashy-Bandicoot889 14h ago

Did you read the article you posted? It says "Had Apple complied with the U.K.’s original demands, they would have been required to create a backdoor not just for users in the U.K., but for people around the world, regardless of where they were or what citizenship they had."

Thanks for proving my point! 🤣