r/SmashBrosUltimate • u/Marshadowers • 9h ago
Help/Question Matchup
Hi, I’ve been playing *Super Smash Bros. Ultimate* competitively for about a year with some friends. They tease me, saying I ought to win every match when playing as Lucas against Cloud or Sephiroth.
Do you think that’s true, or are they just saying it because they lose?
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u/The33rdPhoenix 9h ago
Even if the match up is positive for Lucas (and I do not know if that is true or not), the idea that you should win it 100% of the time is just wrong.
The best players in the world lose matches where they have favorable match ups all the time. Matchups in Ultimate are not so one note that they are insurmountable, they just may make winning slightly easier for one side or the other. With a little luck, proper play, and/or an opponent making reasonable mistakes, any given match is a winnable match.
This goes quadruple when youve only been playing for a short amount of time, like in your case.
Often what happens is players see they have a bad MU, and excuse themselves of their losses in that MU in the future instead of just accepting they lost. This is a pretty natural response to protect their identity, but it is an unhelpful thought stopping technique. Instead of accepting responsibility for the loss and trying to learn what they could have done better, they just chalk it up to a bad MU and say theyre done with it.
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u/JaysonTatHIMRider 8h ago
I dunno Ganon Min Min feels pretty insurmountable
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u/The33rdPhoenix 8h ago
Didnt say matchups didnt exist. Im pretty damn certain minmin/ganon is in minmins favor.
Im saying that simply going "Nah this is impossible" means you ignore everything you did wrong that could have made the match winnable. Ganon/MinMin may straight up be impossible for Ganon if your opponent plays perfectly. But your opponent is a person, and people make a shit ton of mistakes.
Maybe those mistakes could have made the difference and let the Ganon win, had they been good enough to capitalize. Maybe they wouldnt. But you arent going to know if you just shut down the discussion in your head with "Bad MU gg."
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u/JaysonTatHIMRider 8h ago
Tell me what the Ganon counterplay for Min Min is. Like what does Ganon do to get in? Pit Shinda Lion against Doramigi and he's losing every set.
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u/BayonettaAriana 8h ago
You're ignoring what they're saying and trying to 'gotcha' them with the most extreme example in the game. Ganon can win that matchup, that's just how the game works. Will it happen at top level play? Probably not, but 99.9% of players are not top level. Most Min Min players are not playing 100% perfectly and can fuck up.
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u/JaysonTatHIMRider 7h ago
Show me a Ganon winning a set against a min min. But sure I'd every included is not good at the game then anyone can win any matchup
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u/BayonettaAriana 6h ago
S@X 384 Online Winners Quarters - Mattbro (Ganondorf) Vs. Peckham (Min Min) Smash Ultimate - SSBU
Let me guess you're never going to answer again huh? LOL
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u/Ok-Plenty1455 6h ago
Brother, stop being stubborn,Ult is the most balance smash ever,this is not Brawl and min min is not Metaknigh/Snake/IC/DD lol.
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u/errolo 5h ago
This is not even true for players of the same skill, at the highest level Shinda took games off Doramigi (and the mu skews less and less towards minmin the lower the skill). But you frequently have matches between players if different skill, and then it can easily skew towards the ganon players favour.
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u/JaysonTatHIMRider 5h ago
How many sets has he taken off Dora? Matchups are about sets not single games
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u/TheRealMeasuringCup 9h ago
They’re failing to adapt and likely both of you are inexperienced in the matchup. Not knowing everything about the matchup is normal. If it was something like Sonic-Puff or Steve-Ganon, it’d be justified, but they probably just don’t like your character.
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u/Grimsdol 4h ago
for most players the answer is yes Lucas does more or less have a good matchup against them because Lucas can very easy send Cloud off stage and cheese the hell out of his recovery, and his small size makes it really hard for a sephiroth to easily hit you.
at the pro lvl it's probably a different story, but those people are playing a different game from what you and i play. for your average player most of their matches are probably online which has it's own meta and can of worms
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u/DefiantGibbon 1st/2nd 9h ago
The match up chart is only relevant for the best players in the world. I play little Mac and frequently win matches at local tournaments. Even pros lose match ups that are "supposed" to be easily winnable. Any match up chart is just a suggestion, and really doesn't matter at casual levels.
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u/IMAslothkid Greninja 9h ago
If someone is better it doesn’t matter who plays who