r/Talonmains • u/sGvDaemon • 11d ago
Am I assassinating wrong?
https://streamable.com/p1sg3uI'm semi-new to Talon, but one problem I have is that I just don't seem to have the damage to kill people when I feel like I should
In the clip I kited around a bit weakening the Ashe and getting some passive stacks on her, I felt at this point it should be 100% if I dive in, but somehow the burst was less than I expected and she just walks away
My damage output feels slower than expected and I think maybe I mess up the combos because my R2 never goes into targets (I know mechanically how it works but still)
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u/Curious_Kangaroo3293 11d ago
mechanics aside, you should not linger around in open sight. Especially as an assassin like talon that can get easy access in a short time with his E. Before a objective fight, try to get into an unusual angle/flank without being seen (using tools like sweeper, pinkwards, your E) and wait in a bush or behind a wall until you see someone walk into your range of access. Preferably they are alone but even if not, the effect of suprise should be enough of a window to oneshot the target.
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u/Lunrfrost 11d ago
I mean I wouldn’t have even gone for it? Seraphine is walking up to you melee range it’s obvious she has ult. Not sure if Ashe also has ult or not. It’s hard to kill one and survive the other anyways. I think you would need to use only WAQA to kill one and save ult for the other for a chance to win. Not sure how you would approach tho cause you need to dodge a point blank charm and point blank stun.
If you did rangedQ auto the ground and R, dodge both ults in R invis, then after blades become back and you throw out W1 and AQA, if W2 doesn’t connect, I feel like you wouldn’t have enough damage to kill both even if you dodged both ults. If you did WR, dodge both ults in R invis, auto one if W2 lands with 3 passive stacks and Q the other one then maybe? Or if you had an opportunity to WAQA one from the bush proc bleed on one, R1 and dodge both ults in invis, then wait for W CD after R2, and AQA. Or just maybe throw out more W’s to chunk and play for the objective.
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u/sGvDaemon 11d ago
Idk I disagree, I think a good talon that was in my position cleans up both them, or at least kills one and forces the other to run
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u/Lunrfrost 11d ago
But is it necessary tho? Seraphine is ragebaiting u. Don’t lose the game to ur ego. Play the dragon and win the game not the fight. No flipping ur death before objective.
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u/sGvDaemon 11d ago
There's no ego, I play other assassins a lot and this is just a part of the gameplay
You want to slow play it until you see your window and then all in
Likewise supports are trying to keep vision on you and catch you with some CC to get you killed
Assassin has always had this cat and mouse game
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u/Lunrfrost 11d ago
Exactly. I’ll say you played it ok but what I would’ve done actually is play for the objective. Really important things to consider.
1. Dragon pit wall has two locations where you can use E into without the whole wall being used and expiring. So you can E in to steal the drag and then E back out.
2. If you have Umbral Glaive, check if the Umbral on your hotbar is ticking. If it’s not ticking, you’re on vision.
3. I would play for objective bounty. If you do engage and kill 1/2 people BEFORE the objective spawns, you’ll most likely not have ult up for the objective itself. If you’re playing to catch someone before the objective spawns, you should be there 30 seconds ahead of time not right before it spawns. If you do get a catch, you can play 5v4 and your ult CD should be up soon in <10 seconds.0
u/atmcsprtnr7 11d ago
Wtf are u even saying
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u/Lunrfrost 11d ago
This is why you’re so emotional. Enemy support is baiting you to 1 for 1 trade your life to kill her so her team can secure the dragon that’s spawning. You would be the idiot to fall for her trap and die trading your life for the enemy ADC or support. Current state of the game your team is down 6.6K gold and enemy is on soul point as you can see at the end of the clip. So instead of losing the game to your pathetic mentality and weak ego, you don’t find yourself in this position in the middle of 3 people ready to collapse on you especially in this game state. You instead play to steal and deny dragon soul from the enemy team plus objective bounty. Was that clear enough for you to comprehend?
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u/atmcsprtnr7 11d ago
No. Just kill them using your spells correctly unlike what he did.
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u/Lunrfrost 11d ago
Yes. You wish upon a star and pentakill them and deny dragon soul and win the video game and Jesus resurrects too
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u/LoganCack69 11d ago
My take is you should have used W then used R to reposition (while invisible) when they decided to face check the bush after you cleared the ward. This would’ve allowed you to possibly bait an early seraphine R or dump your damage into one of them from behind and most likely get away safely. Using the invisibility of your R is key on talon as it causes a lot of people to panic (ideally whiffing their cc) and allows you to set up picks that would be tough to pull off with a standard flower combo.
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u/sGvDaemon 11d ago
Interesting, that's another approach I didn't think of.
So w-r-move-aa-q-aa is the highest face check combo?
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u/Lunrfrost 11d ago
Yes. But only if you’re able to dodge both Seraphine and Ashe ults. You ideally start with an auto from the bush. A WR, dodge both ults in R1 invis, open ur eyes and pay attention to see who has 3 passive stacks vs who only has two stacks. One of them will immediately flash so W2 will not hit them. So they’ll only have two stacks. This is who you AQA to proc bleed. The other one your R1, W1, and W2 should’ve hit so that’s three stacks. You only use an auto hit to proc bleed and kill this one. This way you can instantly kill two. Try it out in practice tool. If you want, try the same combo with blue pet and Stormraider’s Surge. You can create much more distance after A WR
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u/LoganCack69 11d ago
I wouldn’t say only use it for face checks, but yes, that is the combo that I more often then not will use when navigating a heavy cc comp in a team fight. R invisibility is a mechanic that I don’t see people utilize enough, it can be used to stall, engage, disengage, or bait out abilities like I said above.
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u/Lats2005 11d ago
You should have gone full in from the start. That's it. You did good at making them waste time but nobody was really coming to help on time so you should have gone full in and flashed seraphines R.
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u/Haxzard86 *Stab stab stab* 11d ago
Try watching this guide.
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u/sGvDaemon 11d ago
Damn this is like a decade old, he hasn't changed in 10 years?
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u/Alarmed-Train-7767 9d ago
That's the state of many champs they can remain the same for decades while others get reworked ever so often
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u/queueueueueu 10d ago
Hmm I mean this looks slow in the last part
Im pretty sure you kill ashe just autoing her (canceling your R)
Because you tried to be fancy and dodge seraph ult, your R2 didn’t connect on ashe, ultimately failing the task and still being hit by sera R
Arguably it could be better to open R walk onto ashe with stealth
This would get you melee range on ashe for empowered Q, and R2 damage
dont flash engage, flash as a react to sera R-
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u/sGvDaemon 10d ago
Yeah you're right
I guess I thought the damage of Q+bleed and then R would easily be enough for the kill and then I'd have stealth active for the escape
Just not knowing my damage output yet so I didn't commit to any autos post-R
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u/Any_Medium4820 10d ago
Master player here! First few kites are fine, when they chase you into the pit with 2 marks of passive each it shouldve been a quick w f r q ashe auto seraphine for double
Flash q makes you predictable for seraphine ult even when invis so you missed auto to proc ult, but nice try overall!
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u/Yeezybeezy5283 11d ago
You used r too late, which meant that Ashe avoided half of its damage. Next time r immediately after q to avoid this