Sauron was in Numenor when it was destroyed and lost his body in the process. In this timeline, none of that happens. What is likely to happen next?

Do they repent and turn against Sauron?

An animation I made a few years back.

I think that the tragedy of Melkor's Evil ended up producing a greater beauty and Good than Evil had ever imagined. Of course, this is an aspect of Christian (Catholic) theology that Tolkien inserted into the Legendarium:

* Death as punishment and gift of Eru to men. For mankind will have a privilege that not even the elves will have: to stand by God's side after they leave Arda, whether in joy or sorrow; * Life and death are the Yin and Yang of cycles of creation, destruction and renewal. This prevents the stagnation of life. Can you imagine if everything was perfect and harmonic? I imagine that everything would be tedious and stagnant. * The arrival of Eru himself to heal the wounds of Evil in the world: Finrod and Andreth's dialogue (in the History of Middle Earth) says that Ilúvatar will enter his work to save his children. Obviously, this is a reference to Jesus Christ. But I think that the Silmarillion itself references an even greater beauty (than the Ainur, than that of the Elves) would come to Arda and "and evil yet be good to have been.’:

he raised his head, as one that hears a voice far off, and he said: ‘So shall it be! Dear-bought those songs shall be accounted, and yet shall be well-bought. For the price could be no other. Thus even as Eru spoke to us shall beauty not before conceived be brought into Eä, and evil yet be good to have been.’

This beauty "not before conceived be brought into Eä" is, IMHO, a reference to Jesus Christ.

The Catholic idea of felix culpa cited in the Exultet at the beginning of the Easter Vigil, the night before Easter, which proclaims in part,

O certe necessárium Adæ peccátum, quod Christi morte delétum est! O felix culpa, quæ talem ac tantum méruit habére Redemptórem!​

usually translated as

O truly necessary sin of Adam, destroyed completely by the Death of Christ! O happy fault that earned for us so great, so glorious a Redeemer!​

Fr Jonah Pollack, a Dominican Friar in New York, explain the concept of "Felix Culpa":

The sin of Adam was necessary so that it could be destroyed by the death of Christ. Adam’s fault is happy because it necessitated Christ’s redemption. The sin of Adam is greeted with jubilation because it created the problem to which Christ’s redeeming death and resurrection is the solution. It brought on the disease for which Easter is the cure. To be sure, the sin of Adam is not itself good. It is not, in itself, a cause for rejoicing. It is, rather, an occasion for good. It is the tragic plot twist that sets the stage for the story’s glorious resolution. Our rejoicing is therefore is not that Adam sinned, but that, out of Adam’s sin, God brought about a greater good.​

[https://opeast.org/2016/03/o-happy-fault/\](https://opeast.org/2016/03/o-happy-fault/)

Even Saint Augustine said that:

God judged it better to bring good out of evil than not to permit any evil to exist.

This concept is intimately intertwined with the Problem of Evil, which arises from Free Will:

And thou, Melkor, shalt see that no theme may be played that hath not its uttermost source in me, nor can any alter the music in my despite. For he that attempteth this shall prove but mine instrument in the devising of things more wonderful, which he himself hath not imagined. And thou, Melkor, wilt discover all the secret thoughts of thy mind, and wilt perceive that they are but a part of the whole and tributary to its glory.​

This does not justify or excuse evil in any way, nor is Eru in any way responsible for their evil actions; only that in the ultimate end, Eru’s designs may not be opposed, and he will overcome all evils of his fallen creatures to achieve good beyond the measure of their wickedness.

I've been thinking about Thingol's morality lately, especially during the story of Beren and Lúthien.

One thing that really bothers me is his reaction to Beren. If I understand the scene correctly, Thingol would have had Beren killed if Lúthien had not made him swear not to kill him. And then, instead, he demands a Silmaril from Morgoth's crown as the price for Lúthien's hand.

I know that Doriath was closed to Men at this point, and I can understand Thingol being angry or suspicious when a human somehow manages to enter his hidden kingdom and becomes involved with his daughter. But even then, killing Beren seems extremely harsh.

What makes this especially interesting to me is the contrast with The Children of Húrin, where Thingol and Melian often come across as remarkably wise, generous and even compassionate rulers.

So it makes me wonder where Thingol's moral limits actually were.

For example: if Lúthien had not been involved at all, and Beren had simply been an ordinary human traveller who somehow became lost and entered Doriath, what would Thingol have done with him? Would he really have had him killed simply for entering the kingdom?

And what if a group of human children had somehow been found inside the borders of Doriath? Would Thingol have considered them trespassers as well? Would he have expelled them, taken care of them, imprisoned them?

I know these are hypothetical situations, but I'm curious about how other readers interpret Thingol's character here.

Do you see his treatment of Beren as an exceptional reaction caused by his anger over Lúthien, or does it reveal something darker about Thingol's character that is sometimes overlooked?

Hi what was the hierarchy of the chain of command of Morgoth's forces?

was Sauron directly under Morgoth while working as an administrator and right hand man while Gothmog the Balrog and Glaurung had been the enforcers?

https://fumeresart.artstation.com/projects/LnGgw.

Since it is clearly is said some of Melkor's ideas were incorporated into Illuvatar's scheme, could it be then that the capture of elves, and the subsequent torture of them and transformation into orcs by Melkor, also were part of it, along the principle where there is good there also has to be evil.

This fat lady lives on my porch and has been growing all summer. Today she had grown so fat, it looked like she must have eaten all the jewels in my house! Sadly, I don't feel I have enough Balrogs to deny her...

Regular cross spider, but having grown fat from her skilled web construction.

Edit: Ungoliant* I got the feeling I missed something.

Art by me.

My headcanon on why Findis and Írimë didn’t do much in the silmarillion was simply because they were the elven equivalent of 12. Too busy playing eldar-Roblox and eldar-Fortnite to discuss their thoughts on the first kinslaying

I’ve been listening to the silm on audiobook. I learn and retain information more efficiently with visual cues so I’ve been trying to follow along with a map. The problem is I can’t find a map that’s seems to be right or that everyone agrees on. So I had ChatGPT make one. I know there’s some things missing. Let me know if it’s garbage or if there’s a map I should be using.

I actually thought the Silmarillion was easier to read than Lord of the Rings. Tolkien goes so deep into descriptions of plants and geology I had to look up tons of words I've never heard of before to describe a valley. Where's the Silmarillion is mostly reading the map and memorizing names while epic battles or events happen.

Art by me.
(Haleth’s outfit is based on Siberian lamellar armour)

At the end of the chapter “The Tale of The Fall of Gondolin” Tolkien connects the LotR lengendarium with the early history of our civilization for the only time I can recall anywhere else his writings of Middle Earth. In concluding the The Tale of the FoG he says “Glory dwelt in that city of Gondolin of the Seven Names, and its ruin was the most dread of all the sacks of cities upon the face of the Earth. Nor Bablon \[Babylon\], nor Ninwi \[Nineveh\], nor the towers of Trui \[Troy\], nor all the many takings of Rum \[Rome\] that is greatest among Men, saw such terror as fell that day upon Amon Gwareth… .” The brackets are mine and I believe they accurately represent Tolkien’s intent. Has anyone else noticed any other such references to times after those of the Legendarium within his work?

the below painting is Glaurung before Niënor, hypnotizing her, by Eric Velhagen

If you haven’t had a chance to yet, I highly recommend listening to Christopher Tolkien read the story Of Beren and Lúthien from The Silmarillion. His performance is of a high oratory nature (not sure if that makes sense) and it’s engaging.

Hello reddit!!

My boyfriend is a massive Tolkien fan and his 21st birthday is coming up. I was planing on gifting him a custom hard cover edition of the "Beren & Lúthien" book made by me. He is a very romantic person and has mentioned a couple of times that his favourite story from the Silmarillion is the aforementioned love ballad.

There's a slight problem: I still haven't read a single thing Tolkien has written. I have watched the LOTR movies (extended version, of course), read the whole Wikipedia page about Tolkien, and watched some videos on the Beren and Lúthien love story. But besides that, pretty much know nothing else.

I do know, from the times my boyfriend starts outright geeking out, that Middle Earth is a VERY intricate setting, having it's own languages, faiths, and even specific plants! I am a very detail-oriented person and would love if the cover included nods to these unique traits of Tolkien's creation.

That's the reason for this post, I need ideas of things I could add to the book cover, or at least to my Pinterest board. So if you guys have any suggestions, iconic quotes, or anything really, please feel free to comment them or DM me!!

1 of 12. I want to create a series of drawings of the Fall of Gondolin, but first I am going through sketching each house so that by the time I get there it will feel lived in and real, and I will have references to work off.

For placements of each house I'm using Karen wynn fonstads atlas of middle earth.

So I was thinking about the war of wrath and the destruction of beleriand. What comes to mind is that every character still alive are actively in beleriand or on the island ( cirdan i think). How did they survive the destruction? There was no time to escape over the blue mountains was there? So what about Elrond, Elros, cirdan, Galadriel ? How did they survive that?

Done in 2024

When Maedros was hung atop Thangorodrim by his wrist, he was in extreme torment, to the point where he begged Fingon to just kill him with an arrow. Why couldn't he just willingly leave his body like Miriel did?