Besides Laurie Anderson's "Gravity's Angels"

(Sorry for my bad english if i say something bad, you guys can ask me what i mean if you don't understand what i mean) For me, the story tell us Blicero's view about start from 0 fails, because him and the society are doomed to rot and failure because they are perverted in all ways with obsession and depravaty and the imipolex is the symbol of all of that obsession because it was use for pervert things, the gerat which haves this imipokex and a victim of depravaty like Gottfried, fails to conquer the kabbalah's view of ilumination, which can be go to the space, it falls back to earth, which means all type of death from body to soul, and haves 0 mention to his efect after the destruction, you can say it is ambiguous, but the story tell us how the view of a new world opportunitty fail with the argentinian's anarquism ideals, they saw Martin Fierro like his messiah, but the story tell us how he gets back to the same society he left telling us how his gauchian view fail and they will follow the same path of making the same society or going back to the same society, they don't wanna see it so they take out Martin Fierro's part 2, if we think this as a symbol for the message it makes all try from Blicero a failure because he is all perverted in obsession and he can't think for a news creation in a Kabbalah's view of creation because he can't reach an ilumination, ilumination what Slothrop reachs because he understood he will don't gonna follow the path of obsession and rathers live out of that society, the story tell use about how living in a perverted world with bad ideals and morals will not let use find the ilumination or atleast i think that

I think personally I'd have to go with 3. because I just love Bleeding Edge too much, but I know that'll be a minority opinion. Which era would y'all choose and why?

I mainly read horror or non-fiction books, but a friend recommended gravity's rainbow to me. The discussion online makes it a little intimidating, I'm dyslexic but more than that, the biggest issue for me is that I rarely understand the deeper meaning of the books I read. I usually take them at face value, which makes me think I won't be able to understand Pynchon's work.

Some credits:

Portal of Milano Cathedral

Specisl Thx to "2mrmingo"

Airship Design by Gustav Koch

*Plot spoilers obviously*

Finished a 2nd read of GR and have a couple random thoughts/theories on the plot that I haven't seen mentioned elsewhere:

The 00000/S-Gerat/Blicero/Gottfried

It's ambiguous but I think the 00000 rocket was put into orbit.

Perhaps Gottfried has some control over it, choosing when and where it will reenter the atmosphere and land. Perhaps not, but its presence looming represents the threat of WW3/nuclear armageddon that a ballistic missile strike would trigger.

Likewise, in orbit, Gottfried becomes everywhere and nowhere, mirroring the dissolution of Slothrop in the Zone. Both sent on journeys outside their control, but Slothrop's diffuse presence brings irreverence, creativity, vulgarity (basically Life however meager) to the Zone, the 00000 in orbit is a new "first star" in the sky, but its presence is the spectre of death.

Also, interpreted as in orbit, the 00000 rocket is present for all the rocket strikes in the book, past and future. It is the star Slothrop puts on his map, triggered someway by the Imipolex S-Gerat as it passes overhead over and over.

Enzian/00001/Schwarzkommando

The debate between Enzian and the Empty Ones is how to maintain their sovereignty. Their nation is doomed, it is just a matter of how they choose to die. The Rocket in this case represents (nuclear?) armament.

In the 20th century and beyond (once the Zone has settled into a new world order), the only way long-term to ensure that your state is sovereign is to have a nuclear weapon. The Empty Ones do not wish to pursue that goal, rather decide they will allow their nationality to go extinct naturally. Building the Rocket is also suicidal, in that the only future outcome is mutually assured destruction. It's a short-term deterrent but the choice to actually use it is suicidal. In either case, Rocket or "racial suicide" the remaining Zone-Herero are still taking their fate into their own hands.

Howdy Weirdos,

It's Sunday again, and I assume you know what the means? Another thread of "What Are You Into This Week"?

Our weekly thread dedicated to discussing what we've been reading, watching, listening to, and playing the past week.

Have you:

• Been reading a good book? A few good books?
• Did you watch an exceptional stage production?
• Listen to an amazing new album or song or band? Discovered an amazing old album/song/band?
• Watch a mind-blowing film or tv show?
• Immerse yourself in an incredible video game? Board game? RPG?

We want to hear about it, every Sunday.

Please, tell us all about it. Recommend and suggest what you've been reading/watching/playing/listening to. Talk to others about what they've been into.

Tell us:

What Are You Into This Week?

- r/ThomasPynchon Moderator Team

I read “Inherent Vice” about 2 years ago and absolutely loved it. This was my first foray into the world of Pynchon. I read up about the author immediately after I finished the book and was pleasantly surprised to find out he was a fellow odd dude. I was especially excited to learn he was also a fan of Roky Erickson, of whom I’m also a huge fan of. So next I’ve started reading “Gravity’s Rainbow” because I read that it won sci-fi book of the decade in the 70’s and thought the premise sounded cool. Well… I’m having a bit of difficulty with this one. It’s very interesting and strange but I find myself getting lost and not in a good way. Maybe this was intentional with the way he wrote this book, maybe not? I’m about 250 pages in and wondering if I should keep going or just try another of his works. Any suggestions or advice welcome.

I know it is a difficult book so how do I prepare for it. How difficult is it compared to his other books ?

From my job welding in the oilfield, wading knee deep in preterite dung

Hi! I've been getting more into classics and literary fiction recently, so I wanted to give a Pynchon novel a go. I chose Inherent Vice as my first because it seemed less intimidating than some of his more iconic works (Gravity's Rainbow, Mason & Dixon) and because I had enjoyed the Paul Thomas Anderson movie but didn't remember much of the plot. I just finished it today and I LOVED IT. It took a while for it to click, because at the beginning I thought it was funny and entertaining and all but didn't understand why Thomas Pynchon is considered such a virtuoso, but the further I got into it, the more apparent what he was trying to do became. It encapsulates the tone of the end of the psychedelic era of the '60s really well and the post-Manson paranoia of the time, which I wasn't alive for so I can't vouch for its accuracy, but it does create a really interesting portrait of the time and place in which the novel is set. I love all the characters, especially the dynamic between Doc and Bigfoot, and I love how you learn more about Bigfoot as the story goes along. The book is also so goddam funny. There were several jokes that actually made me laugh out loud, which a book has never done for me before. Pynchon has a pretty bizarre, idiosyncratic style that I like a lot and I look forward to exploring more of his books. Unless I'm persuaded otherwise, I think the next one I'll read is Gravity's Rainbow, because that's the one everyone always talks about when they talk about Pynchon.

Where to start. It took me almost a year. After having enjoyed Infinite Jest I thought I was ready for everything. Well, Gravity’s Rainbow was the exception, and it has taken me some time to digest it and finally start writing this. The story alternates between concrete understandable narrative which is very enjoyable, and dreamlike sequences in which one loses the thread of what’s happening and you need to re read everything. It was a surprise for me finishing a chapter, and then reading what the guide at https://www.gravitysrainbowguide.com/had to say just to realize I had understood something totally different. It also does not help that it is filled with obscure references about the postwar Europe.

The initial book premise is really interesting: it focuses on Tyrone Slothrop, whom I might call the main character, an American lieutenant in England during World War II. We learn that Slothrop unknowingly “predicts” the place a bomb is going to land: he has sex with a woman at certain place and days later a bomb falls in said place. Statistician from PISCES is really interested in this and says it’s just a casual Poisson distribution. As we unravel Slothrop’s story, we discover he was given to a scientist called Laszlo Jamf, a multidisciplinary intellectual with interests in both psychology and plastics. Supposedly he experimented with young Slothrop, using his erection as the variable to measure with his experiments. Dr. Jamf also invented Imipolex G, a new plastic that was used in the fabrication of the Schwarzgerät (black device) rocket, which is actually the main subject of the book. It is hypothesized that Slothrop’s bombing-related erections are due to a reaction to that plastic, however all that is left unfinished, when at the end of the book the existence of Dr. Jamf (who is mentioned constantly around the book) is denied, and explained as a way to justify Slothrop’s sexual arousal induced by death.

There are a lot of other loose threads all around the book. Pynchon takes the time to create complex tales and elements, and makes you believe they are going to play a major role in the book. Examples of these are the octopus that attacks Katje. Katje Borgesius is an agent with a complex backstory, who is at the beach and is attacked by an octopus trained to attack her - this causes Slothrop to save her and they become attached. Another example is a secret book that is only to be read by seven scientists, Kevin Spectro amongst others, who mysteriously die one by one.

Getting back on track, the main themes of the book are death, and the contrast of the opposites: how life requires death in order for life to be life, how white requires its contrast black (Weiss / Scwharz). This takes us to Captain Blicero (Blicero is a teutonic name for death), real name Lieutenant Weissman (German for white). Captain Blicero may be the real main character of the book. He is part of the German SS, and part of the V2 rocket program, in charge of developing the A4 rocket (the real main character of the book). Blicero is a racist white-supremacist; however, he had a black Herero lover: Enzian, he actually named him Enzian after a poem. Quick detour to Enzian, Enzian is a survivor from the Herero genocide, he is the son of a Herero woman, and a Russian sailor (making him half brother of Tchitcherine, but more on that later), who eventually becomes leader of the Schwarzkommando (black-commando) a Herero guerrilla group also obsessed with the rocket. Back to Blicero, he had a house in the woods where he held Gottfried and Katje Bourgesius captive in order to play sick sexual recreations of Hanzel and Grettel. Eventually Katje Fred herself from the house, but Gottfried remained under Blicero’s control, and was eventually launched in the 00000 A4 rocket.

Once free, Katje starts working for “The Firm”. There is a lot of confusion, since the word Them is constantly used, and we do not know who is Them, is it The Firm, PISCES, The White Visitation? Or something above? I think The Firm and PISCES (Psychological Intelligence Statistics Centralized EEOC Staff, headquartered at The White Visitation) are the same, an organisation led by Ned Pointsman, a psychological scientist who wants to use Slothrop’s supposed sexual link with the rockets to find the A4 rocket; thus, a lot of efforts of The Firm are to follow and control Slothrop. They use Katje who meets Slothrop in the “mysterious” octopus attack by previously-trained octopus Grigori.

After Slothrop’s encounter with Katje in the French Riviera, Slothrop begins becoming extremely more paranoid, suspecting there’s someone spying on him at all times and controlling his life. After having sex with Katje, she disappears and so do all of Slothrop’s belongings, and a naked persecution ensues. Slothrop begins reading rocket-books and discovering secret information on the S-Gerat 00000 rocket. He takes a train to The Zone (post-war Germany), where he meets comedic relief character Major Marvy. Off the train, Slothrop meets Geli Tripping, a self-described witch, and romantic partner to (again) Vaslav Tchitcherine. He starts asking questions, he is determined to find the rocket. Slothrop visits the tunnels where the V2 rockets are produced and meets Marvy again, who sends all of his soldiers to kill him. Slothrop only survives thanks to the help of Dr. Glimpf. Then, Slothrop takes a hot air balloon to Berlin, and meets again with Marvy, only to defeat him in an airborne cake-fight (every encounter with Marvy is comical, and the last encounter is the funniest one, when They are chasing Slothrop who is wearing a pig costume; Marvy and Slothrop switch costumes, and They take Marvy and castrate him mistaking him for Slothrop).

Later on, Slothrop joins a party of smugglers leaded by Saure. They gather costumes from a play, and Slothrop wears a viking helmet without horns, giving him the nickname Rocketman. They ask him to go to Postdam to retrieve some marijuana. He uses a fake ID with the name Ian Scuffling. He is drugged by Tchitcherine, and wakes up to find Greta Erdmann, an actress that conceived her daughter Bianca while recording one of Gerhardt von Goll’s movies (a famous German director also known as the Springer). She is in shock when she discovers the fake ID since she used to work with an Ian Scuffling.

Anyways, somehow both Slothrop and Greta end up in a ship named the Anubis, where they meet Greta’s current husband, Miklos Thanatz. We learn that both Greta and Miklos are sexual performers of SnM that used to perform for Captain Blicero, also involving her underage Bianca in their sexual spectacles. Slothrop is obsessed by Bianca and sleeps with her. Slothrop falls into the water and is rescued by smugglers towards Peenemunde, where they try to raid a rocket factory, and where Slothrop meets Tchitcherine and switch clothes.. Slothrop meets Franz Pokler, a scientist kidnapped by Captain Blicero to work for him developing the rocket. Pokler and his wife Leni conceived their daughter Ilse while watching Greta’s movie where she conceived Bianca.

The people at the White Visitation (Pirate Prentice, Roger Mexico, and Katje) reunite feeling guilty for all the wrong they have done in the name of peace, and create the Counterforce, an organization also looking for the rocket. The book becomes ever more cryptic with random stories, such as “Byron the Bulb” (a fun short story about an immortal bulb, and how the bulb mafia and the energy grids confabulate). Slothrop begins to “collapse” and fragment in hundreds of pieces, although the real question is was he ever not fragmented? Was Slothrop ever a real person, or just an idea?

In the last section the reader expects closure. The only incident that gets closure is Enzian and Tchitcherine’s relationship. The half-brothers were destined to kill each other; however, when they meet, they cannot recognize each other. Last we know about Slothrop is his tarot and that he was seen photographed in an UK rock band’s album “The Fool”. Captain Blicero finally launches the rocket with Gottfried inside, and somehow the rocket transcends space and time and hits a movie theater around 30 years later.

Casually on my 6th i think reading of GR and going thru this scene again it struck me that there’s probably a lot more going on than a mere comedic dalliance poking fun at English cuisine with a hint of espionage at the end to transition to something seemingly a little more meaty. Reading posts about it here it seems like the overall consensus is that this is not quite a throwaway scene, but more meant as a bit of a palate cleanser after the s&m sex ‘n death national destiny-thing of Blicero and Katje…which is broadly sorta been my opinion.

But now I’m not so sure. My experience with this book the last 15 years is that every single aspect has more than one meaning (i mean arguably that goes for all language if im to put my Lacanian hat on but i dont have the energy atm). So why should this scene be the one exception to that? I’m pretty sure Pynch as always is alluding to something more nefarious going on but wraps in obfuscating shenanigans. i think we get that here with “candy” being associsted with children more than adults of course (altho maybe not here in the US anymore le sigh) but instead of being tasty and sweet its profoundly, absurdly disgusting. Not only that there are no children, instead just two upper middle young adults hornier than hell for eachother and one sclerotic old lady leading the whole ceremony. Or ritual maybe?

And the key part that kicked all this off for me was Ms Quod’s dream at the end of the section. The one where she’s shame-horny for some king’s evil touch or something and is some palatial estate’s pleasure garden’s with other members of the aristocracy (i could refer to Weisenberger here but i’m literally about to fall asleep, which i won’t be able to do easily with this gnawing away in my head. Knowing my luck i’ll probably wind up in the same creepy pleasure garden rhododendron-vagina dream and i just want my usual fare of being disappointed in my dad and my penis)….

ANYWAYS, yea the vague dream seeming to allude to elite ritual abuse or something like that and there’s just always been like this menacing quality the scene has for me. Ms Quod has always come off to me as a very uncanny and sinister character in the same unnerving way that the old couple in Lynch’s Mulholland Drive did as well. Everyone thinks its just a lark but while its got some great gags, the Candy Drill is actually i think profoundly disturbing

(And yes also probably a bit of Anubis foreshadowing)

I feel like I have been "taken for a ride"

Had fun!

Is Frenesi pronounced like “Fren-easy” or is it pronounced like it rhymes with Hennessy?

I’m reading M&D for the second time, just finished Latitudes and Departures. I’m curious about the repeated use of lines of dialog trailing off to end with “…?”.

These lines aren’t questions, but declarative statements. And it seems to be limited to characters from County Durham (Dixon, Emerson, Dixon’s family, etc.)

Is this supposed to signify some part of the Geordie accent? Uptalk? Some physical gesture, like a shrug? Was this a convention in period writing?

I’d appreciate anyone’s insight into this particular linguistic quirk. How do you translate the “…?” in your head or what meaning do you see in it?

I bought the Penguin Deluxe edition last week, and also have the 1st edition of Steven Weisenburger’s A Gravity’s Rainbow Companion. I noticed by page 34 that Weisenburger’s cited pagination and line #s did not correspond with the Deluxe edition pagination. Should I:

1. continue with the Penguin Deluxe or buy a different edition?
2. purchase Weisenburger’s 2nd edition?