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u/tinaismediocre 11h ago
Imagine having lower standards for the woman who will birth and raise your children than the woman you would be willing to marry. Wild.
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u/thechiefmaster 11h ago
Because it’s about genetic legacy, not the actual quality or lives of those offspring.
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u/StudiosS 9h ago
Massive difference between wanting to have kids and wanting to be a father.
Likewise, having a wife vs being a husband.
Wanting the latter in both is best if you want to be exceptional at it.
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u/kajidourden 10h ago
True, equally weird to me are the women who want kids and don't give af who the dad is because they just want a kid. Some people are just....different lol
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u/Academic-Ball-9606 5h ago
Well he tried the traditional way first she cheated. So I guess this is him adapting?
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u/No_Direction_3940 4h ago
Well I agree but I can also understand hesitation to marry when one has gone awry and statistically theres what is it now like a 70% chance that will happen again lol. Im not getting married even if i find a woman worth marrying and have kids because my ass is gonna die first and debt doesnt transfer to a non-spouse...and if it doesnt work out I dont lose everything. Marriage is a joke as it is today unfortunately.
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u/Turbulent_Law5877 12h ago
The knowledge that like 1 in 10 of my boys is out there sending messages like this to women online is just so nuts to me
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u/ShineReaper 12h ago
Well, to play Devil's Advocate:
He is clarifying a pretty fundamental aspect of any potential relationship, if the potential partner wants kids or not, beforehand. That is actually commendable.
The alternative would be getting into a relationship and then after a few months finding out, that the wishes in that regard collide completely and there is a breakup and potential drama.
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u/Turbulent_Law5877 12h ago
I don’t have any issue with someone being upfront about crucial relationship non-negotiables.
It’s more the fact that he’s a total goober.
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u/hypocrisy_is_rampant 12h ago
It’s not what you did son, it’s how you did it.
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u/imunchgarbage 11h ago
To play further devils advocate there is a time and place for everything.
Hitting up to a random woman and saying "birth 5 of my children" is more akin to sexual harassment than honest expectation setting. Suggesting that's it's good faith expectation management is uhhhh... Seems weird?
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u/sgsparks206 11h ago
Wouldn't you rather know right off the bat what a person is like rather than waste your time?
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u/imunchgarbage 11h ago
I would rather creeps not approach me or make me uncomfortable.
I would rather be treated like a human instead of a incubator.
So no. In general if you are freak I'd rather not know.
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u/petabomb 11h ago
You’d rather them wait to show you the freak they are until 5 months in when you’re nesting each others parents?
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u/sgsparks206 10h ago
You missed my point, but yes, it would be better if these types learned to treat women as other people
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u/imunchgarbage 10h ago
I didn't miss your point! Your point is just a bad faith internet talking point.
Women shouldn't need to witness / be a victim of terrible behavior to "know" something. It's like saying, "well you broke your leg. But now you learned that breaking your leg sucks and it's not for you." Like no I knew that without breaking my leg.
The same applies to freaks on dating apps. I know I don't need to interact with freaks. I would rather not interact with them at all than be exposed to them and then be told, "well at least you know and they were honest about being freaks". A guy who wants you pump out 5 kids to "see if you are okay to marry" is a freak.
A little shame and decency goes a long way. We need to normalize not being a freak again. The whole "as long as you are upfront about it - any behavior is okay" needs to go. It's not
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u/sgsparks206 6h ago
How is it a bad faith argument? I have no hidden goals here. I responded by saying that I agreed, that these types of people need to do better and be better. That doesn't change the fact that they exist, that they will continue to exist, and that it's better for them to expose themselves quickly than to waste anyone's time or be deceitful. In the real world, out of these options:
they tell you up front
they tell you after time has been invested
3.they stop being like this
which is the least likely to happen? I understand it's not fair, and I understand it's a shit situation. But I also understand that there will always be people like this, so it's better that they stamp it on their forehead than hide it.
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u/imunchgarbage 6h ago
Bad faith could be wrong phrase here. You are right. Maybe it's just a mentality difference then.
You are describing an aspiration to deal with these people as quickly and as painlessly as possible. Very reasonable goal if you must deal with them.
I am describing an aspiration where we don't deal with them. I understand yours is closer to reality. But what we aspire and wish for is usually different from how the world works.
Like op had this shitty interaction with a man. I'm responding "damn that sucks to be treated like that" and you responded "well at least it was quick". It isn't bad faith.... But you see why it leaves a bad taste in the mouth?
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u/sgsparks206 4h ago
I do, and I think it means you have more faith in humanity than I do. When I was on dating apps, 75% of the women I talked to ended up being weirdos or rude. More often than not those qualities would show up over time, I always preferred it when it happend right away.
You believe people can do and be better, and I hope you are right.
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u/Professional_Sign828 8h ago
How did this make you uncomfortable? Like seriously? It might be strange and out of place. But uncomfortable? Get a grip. And wanting 5 kids is akin to sexual harrasment? Are you in your right mind? How dare you minimize sexual harassment to someone wanting to have 5 kids. You make the word mean nothing. I had women that wanted 8 kids? Would you call that sexual harrasment as well? WTF!!!
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u/imunchgarbage 8h ago
Did not expect the incel melt down. Go off king.
Nothing I can say will get through to you. I'm sure of it. Don't let me yuck your yum though.
Speaking of you being right... and because it's so cool and normal you should ask a woman at work how many of your children she is willing to have before you get married. Bonus points if you do it in your first conversation. Human resources will forgive you - it's a totally normal dating question! She will be super thankful you were so upfront.
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u/Professional_Sign828 8h ago
Incel melt down. Now i really know what you are about. Using incel and sexual harrasment willy nilly. And when someone firmly calls out your bullshit you call it a meltdown. All to distract from your own weir ass views. Because you can't communicate anymore without trying to put someone down without assuming the worse.
What i also noticed is that people that are quick to call others incells are most of the time the incels themselves. Always having heavy opinons on others. But if someone has a heavy opinion on them they start crying and hitting around.*Did you already find some typo's in my comment? Cause that's probably the next thing you want to mention.
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u/imunchgarbage 8h ago
I hurt my finger recently and have been typing with 9 fingers as the 10th has stitches in it. I won't police your typing;. Im sure you've seen me edit my comments to fix a few mistakes.
I am not really sure how to get through to you here. I don't think i am helping or adding anything anymore but ill give it one last try.
"How many kids do you see yourself with in the future? Do you want to be a parent? I aspire to build a big family."
"How many children of mine are you willing to bear before you want to get married? Not sure you are wife worthy but I want children right now."
Which one of these is a normal way to ask this question? Which one of these is being a freaky sex pest? At the core its the same question but one is written like an incel freak and one is written like a well adjusted adult.
Nobody is saying a mature conversation about kids is weird. Every couple does it. It feels like you are insisting that ANY FORM of this conversation is valid. Its not. Just ask like a normal person instead of a horny barbarian. Especially if you just met somebody.
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u/RobertYiSin 11h ago
So they’ve to just lie to you. Or all creeps just stay away? You might need to delete tinder…
Imo if a creep is upfront, problem fixed. If a creep lies though, you’re going to get hurt.
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u/statcaffeinebolus 11h ago
they aren’t supposed to be creeps at all, that’s the point.
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u/sgsparks206 10h ago
But if they are, would you rather them let you know right off the bat?
It's impossible to not have creeps.
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u/RobertYiSin 10h ago
I know that, lol, 😂 but being realistic, how can this person best avoid creeps? Deleting tinder. Because it’s filled with em.
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u/Pug_Defender 11h ago
which is why you’ll have way more success off the apps and talking to people!
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u/RobertYiSin 10h ago
Ding ding ding. The fuck even is this sub man. People curate themselves soo much, aww is this good enough, should I get a haircut?
Then once they’re curated, and pc, they’ll go about shaming everyone else.
People need to learn to be yourself, be crazily yourself and don’t worry about others.
Worry about you, it doesn’t matter if someone ignores a “thank you” you do it because it’s the right thing, not for the smile back…
Sheeeit, we spend more time judging others than fixing ourselves or even better yet loving ourselves for who we are.
The guy wants kids, who gives a fuck.
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u/Archolm 5h ago
You are getting downvoted but I agree that if you have a take like the guy in the messages its best of you are upfront about it. That way women can decide if they want to be bred like that guy is into.
If you want to be a single baby mamma seek out guys like in the message ladies! You too can have no future. Dont let your dreams be dreams.
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u/Mini-Heart-Attack 8h ago
1 in 10 of my boys out there
and rising lmao. it is an epidemic after all. watch it scale up to 5 in 10
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u/bigpoppanicky7 1h ago
Thinking ten percent of the male population being like this is just so nuts to me (I think it’s way higher 💀)
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u/DowntoSnack 12h ago
"I would like a vessel. It would be cool if the vessel was nice, but not a deal breaker."
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u/Miserable-Stock-4369 12h ago
I assume, since he's divorced already, it's more about avoiding the stress/cost of a marriage&divorce than not valuing the relationship
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u/zukadook 12h ago
The people who think creating life with someone is less of a commitment than forging a legal contract baffle me.
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u/Miserable-Stock-4369 11h ago
It's just pessimistic about relationships. If there's a chance it ends in a co-parenting/single parent situation, he'd rather not get married in the first place.
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u/BigResponsibleOil 4h ago
? If he has kids with the girl and then breaks up with her he's going to end up in a co-parenting/single parent situation anyways. Might as well at least have been married to the mother of your children
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u/PM_ME_UR_REPTILES1 11h ago
Obviously having children is the bigger commitment, but what's wrong with being against marriage? I dont need a piece of paper to tell someone I love them. I know I won't ever get married, but I am happily taken with children.
I dont agree with the guy in the post, the way he brought it up was weird, but you dont need marriage.
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u/CatsruleBabiesdrool 10h ago
I think having 5 children with a man without the legal protections of a marriage is very risky. Unless they’re rich enough to provide childcare for 5 kids, so the woman can still pursue a career and financial stability independently of the man. I highly doubt he’d want to be an unmarried stay at home dad if she was the breadwinner.
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u/greenleafwhitepage 10h ago
I dont need a piece of paper to tell someone I love them.
That's not what marriage is about. It's first and foremost a contract to an economic union. With what childbearing costs women (literally, I am talking about the money), marriage is still the best way to have some sort of financial security and retribution for it.
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u/exneo002 11h ago
So I agree you don’t need it and marriage isn’t a requirement per se:
I think men definitely have more to gain in not getting married and saying he wants the kids first and then to decide if she’s worth marrying seems like it could be a hint that he’s going to dangle marriage over her head as a carrot to get what he wants. Again this could totally be him fearing marriage after it goes south but the two look the same from the outside looking in.2
u/PM_ME_UR_REPTILES1 11h ago
Yea no, I probably shouldve just stuck to the context of the post. Trusting them with children before marriage is absolutely wild. If both were a requirement, I would definitely want marriage before children. I want to be clear that I do not at all align with the original guy in the post, I was just defending the thought process of people against themselves getting married haha.
If I do get married, it will be in our backyard with 10 people max attending. Unless SO is adamant on a big wedding lol but i dont see that happening
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u/FallingF 12h ago
Because kids are notoriously low-stress and cheap
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u/Miserable-Stock-4369 11h ago
But he wants kids. The marriage and divorce risk, are unnecessary risks, when a non-married relationship can be equally fulfilling
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u/thegreasiestgreg 9h ago
Kids that grow up in a stable household with both parents do better in life, there are thousands of studies that support that.
Women are not incubators, this man is icky. I dont care what what his past traumas are, you dont put that shit on your children.
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u/Miserable-Stock-4369 9h ago
You don't need to be married to be stable
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u/thegreasiestgreg 9h ago
You can argue semantics all you want, this man is literally admitting to the fact he doesnt want to commit to a woman before impregnating her and bringing a child into this world that is half of of his DNA. Marriage is way less of a commitment than 5 kids.
Its fucking weird and gross
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u/Miserable-Stock-4369 9h ago
I think he's gross because he started with "thick beautiful woman to have my kids", and I think that's the strongest supporter that he wants an incubator and not a partner.
I just think his views on marriage are separate from that
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u/thegreasiestgreg 9h ago
Well good luck to him to find a woman dumb enough to have his kids without the extra protections or tax incentives of marriage.
Ain't no way this icky man is raising his own children.
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u/Keeptrying2020 11h ago
There a bunch of brothers out there that procreate when they shouldn't be.
I swear there folks out there that just create kids for fun, but dont want to take responsibility in raising a happy and healthy kid that have the necessary tools to deal with this ever changing world.
Thats just an recipe for f up kids.
The cycle of trauma continues.
F these type of people. ( both men and women)
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u/Mountain-Donkey98 12h ago
Wants kids but not the relationship? Good luck finding a woman who wants that dynamic...guess who gets saddled down with the kid 90% of the time?
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u/MisterPineapples1999 11h ago
You can be in a relationship without being married. You can also be married without being in a relationship.
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u/Mountain-Donkey98 11h ago
Well, duh. This is about kids, though. Kids warrant a relationship. Ideally one with a genuine legal commitment ie marriage. Seeking a woman to have your children without commitment is asking for problems.
Sounds like this man wants kids for his own selfish reasons but doesnt care what's best for their psychological well-being. Ie: knowing their parents are together and united. Theres a reason people have children POST commitment or are the catalyst for a commitment.
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u/agatha-burnett 11h ago
I actually think he will find one. Reddit itself is full of these stories, seems to be not as uncommon as you’d think.
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u/Suitable-Dentist-355 7h ago
Ah yes and we all know reddit is the source of all truths. You can take my word for it I'm Abraham Lincoln.
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u/Annithoughts 11h ago
Holy crap! Sounds like he’s en route to having five baby mamas as he reproduces and auditions women for a forever role
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u/Working_Cucumber_437 10h ago
That’s so weird. She’s good enough to be your kids’ mom but not good enough to marry? People are so backwards about which is the bigger commitment and responsibility.
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u/MegaCarnie 7h ago
Ya know, surrogacy exists. There's igloo coolers full of eggs out there, somewhere and at least some folks are selling.
There's no practical barrier to a single dude having a kid other than the ones who would want it that badly probably want the free dishwasher they expect it comes with
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u/Intelligent_Table913 12h ago
Can i ask why you matched with him? There's gotta be red flags in his profile
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u/hannahmawaii 11h ago
It’s been a minute so I don’t fully remember but he did mention wanting kids. I’d like to have kids in the future so it wasn’t a red flag to me until these messages
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u/mikelown 12h ago
🤷♂️ he was up front about what he wanted and wasn't rude. If the genders were reversed everyone would praise the girl for sticking to her "preferences"
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u/Iluminiele 12h ago edited 8h ago
No, not trusting a person enough to get married, but trusting the person enough to have 5 kids together is not normal.
The dude is protecting his emotions in case he fulfills his "breeding a thick woman" fetish with a wrong person.
The 5 kids having a terrible mother? That's cool
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u/raeballentyne 11h ago
People would be posting it on the nicegirls sub and calling her delusional. Stop creating a gender war where there's none.
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u/Majestic_Garage_280 11h ago
Also its very very different to expect someone to carry and birth your child than the other way around
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u/DeadWifeHappyLife3 12h ago
I said this to my first and only wife, from the beginning, pretty much exactly the same way. She was taken aback at first but then seemingly accepted it and 3 kids, a dog, house and a great life together later. Seemed to work out.
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u/Dependent_Reason_489 12h ago
I really doubt you said you wanted kids first, marriage later if she proves she's trustworthy enough for marriage
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