This was my 4th trackday and I lowsided my R6. Does anyone have thoughts on why it happened so I can learn from it? It was my 2nd lap of the 2nd session, thought my tires were warm, wasn't pushing like super hard I felt the pace was easily maintainable but somehow ended up lowsiding. I'm trying to undestand if it was bc of body positioning, just cold tires, footpeg scraping etc. Any tips are welcome, just trying to learn from My mistakes
Also worth noting, he did that out in the marbles. If you're going to ask your tires to do a lot, do it on the racing line where the pavement is clean.
Yea, we compared our body positioning in the pits with both bikes on stands. If i tried to go further off the bike, I got a sharp pain in my hip. Don't know if it's a tight hip flexor or what but that needs to be worked on over the winter for sure. Years of weight lifting and office jobs have wrecked my mobility
Yeah, look into PiYo it really helped my mobility for baseball back when I played and has helped me stay mobile over the years. But I feel like if you’re able to find a way to get over more it’ll help prevent having to lean the bike as much. You’ll be back and better in no time, but daily stretching helps more than you realize, even 20 minutes.
I think you hear revs climb because the bike was leaning over and the tire was going more to the edge. Since we can't see the throttle hand we can't really know.
I see the bar twist out of his hand, he either locked the front or tucked it. Can't see the brake so we don't know if it was loaded or not.
Edit: after listening to it 10 more times, I think the throttle was picked up.
Yea I thought I was smooth enough with the throttle but on previous track days I think I carried just a tiny bit less lean angle then. This lap really didn't feel like going that hard at it, but now i know what to look for. Hope I get her back up for the last trackday of the season
I don’t think that’s what he’s saying. Never add (only maintain or decrease) throttle when you are in same lean angle, doesn’t matter what lean angle you are at. And if increasing lean angle, decrease or close throttle completely.
Maybe I didn't word it correctly, my goal wasn't to add gas at all at that point, i was just trying to maintain a constant speed. Usually I aim to take a sharper turn in this corner, basicly minimizing the time between braking and adding gas, but since this wasn't a hot lap and I was just trying to get into a rythm and I was fine with "floating" trough the corner with a steady ammount of gas. It just didn't work out since instead of keeping it steady I might have been adding some throttle accidently
That’s another part of your problem. If you were just lazily taking the corner you didn’t load the tires either.
Trail braking is important because that is what deforms the front tire to get it to grip. Loading the gas correctly is important to deform the rear tire for grip.
Maintaining a neutral throttle through the corner is a great way to do neither and have the minimum amount of grip available.
I never understood this -- maybe you can help me understand? I get that trail braking moves the weight forward and increases grip at turn-in, but as soon as you're in the corner itself, the weight moves back almost instantly. I can't picture in my head how neutral throttle would correspond to minimum grip in a corner.
Because that weight to the front smashes the tire into the ground causing the contact patch to expand. That’s why you don’t release all the weight before the apex, you release it as you approach the apex.
If you’re neutral throttle you don’t get the weight transfer so you don’t increase your contact patch with the front tire.
It's still not computing for me, sorry. At the apex, you're at maximum lean angle, but have transferred to neutral throttle before the exit. Wouldn't that cause a wash right at apex, according to the weight theory?
I have to caveat this by saying I'm obviously not a racer and have limited track experience. But from a physical standpoint I really don't understand how neutral throttle = minimum grip.
You have to carry more speed through corner. Pro's make hard trail brake into turn, it stabilizes bike and it's the fastest and safest way in the world. They start adding gas around apex or after apex - depends on corner. That's my observations from trackday with moto 2 world champion. Started to ride like this and I improved my time, it's more consistent and fluent. Falling like them into corner is hard because that's scary .
You’re not at maximum lean at every apex unless every corner is a roll speed corner. Look at a late apex line. Any bike over 50HP has to make these line choices for optimal use of grip.
It really doesn't. All kinds of people go through corners successfully without actually trail braking. I didn't start doing that on my first few trackdays. It wasn't until I got a coach that I began to brake basically until apex.
Even if you're smooth, demanding forward acceleration and increasing lateral acceleration at the same time increases how much grip you're asking for. You should be picking up the throttle as you're standing the bike up, not when you're leaning over more.
Yes i know, i just thought I was being smooth on it and keeping it steady, maybe bc of adrenaline or something but in the moment i felt like I was being smooth on the throttle and just had the rear slip out. But i need to learn to be even smoother with The gas so i don't start to add more in The middle of the corner again.
Yeah I literally had to watch it 30-40 times and even looped parts of both pov. That section looks like you were coming down then in the section you came into the slide kind of like a slight decline, inclide, decline going into the corner. Very faint, not crazy amount but it can throw your balance off. The throttle could have been pushed just a tad during that moment without you meaning to. This is what I observed
Because it's a common mistake with new track riders. You can't add lean and throttle at the same time... Well, you can, but the skill to do hownmucj of which comes with time and skill.
Curiosity, do you remember the moments leading tonthe slide? Body position? How tense you were on the bars? Pressure on pegs? Amount of throttle and whether you added as you increased lean into the corner?
Slowed down too much going into the apex and increasing throttle mid corner to make up for it. Try carrying more speed going into the corner (it will be scary) so there is no need to open the throttle until you can stand the bike up. Are you trail breaking through the apex or are you finishing braking as you enter corners?
I usually try to trail brake up to the apex and i usually try to take this corner more like a V shape rather than a long sweeping U if you get me. This session it felt like I was still going slower than what i'm used to of because I had a long break between these trackdays and zero riding between them.That's why after I crash you can see me sitting there for a second, I was shocked that this semi chill session was the one that wiped me out.
Your line for that corner was decent as it should tighten in the end to get a good launch towards the left side of the track. Just a bit too early on the gas while still turning in towards the apex.
Aivan, joo mietin vaa ku joku muistikuva et ois joku tollane vaalee uus r6 joskus tullut siel nähtyä. Katotaan jos ens kaudella pääsis teidänki päivillä käymään
This is usually the outcome of adding lean and adding throttle at the same time, and from the clip it seems to be the case also. You are trying to throttle out of the turn before you are even at the apex while you are still trying lean into it.
To me, it looks like the front wheel didn't have enough weight..and therefore grip..and slid out as a result.
Applying throttle takes weight off the front wheel, and at such extreme lean angles, that can be enough to cause a slide; your seating position can also play a role.
Front wheel washout. When cornering you must remember your not driving a car,where you correct your line to a degree,.On a bike your lean turns the bike,so you must pick a line and set your speed before entering corner ,There is only a very small margin for correction,.
Yep. After looking at it I was thinking the same myself. And tyre pressures too. Maybe not low enough. And not hot enough. I have taken corners like that at 200kph at Phillip Island and never felt like I was going to lose front or back tyre
My guess is body position. Putting your knee out is all very well but not going to save you from making your bike lean too much. You have to lean your butt out as well so you can keep the bike more upright.
It’s could be a number of things already mentioned and difficult to say for sure
I’d recommend next time talking to the TDO about some instruction, so valuable if you’ve only done a few TD and want to improve.
I do want to spend some money and get like a proper instructor once I graduate. Right now as a uni student the budget is very limited but hopefully next summer i can invest little bit more into this
Not really, this was 1 frame before crash, nothing wrong here except very upright body position. Entered the corner without much body adjustment for the corner, sonhad to lean much farther than what would be necessary for a more balanced position... Likely held or added throttle as increasing lean and voila. Mystery solved, common new track rider error.
Looks like you leaned too much. If you still have stock rear sets. There’s a metal pin at the end of the foot peg that when you lean it’s called a lean sensor to let you know when you’re about to run out of tire for traction. So be mindful about much much room too have left. Also didn’t see your left knee sliding on the road keeping you from low siding on that too much lean curve too much gas making you also lose traction good luck next time 🫡
Yea, i think i need to work on my mobility too so i can actually get that knee out further. And also the stock footpegs are both missing that metal pin. Maybe I should invest into new pegs or even rearsets for extra adjustability
Yes most definitely. If you’re going with rear sets try and learn your bikes max lean angle so you don’t lose traction. Either lean it with some carpet filter and a car jack or have friends hold it for you while you check the rear tire
Shift your rear end further to the inside of the seat. I have the edge of the seat riding up the crack of my ass when I'm down dragging a knee. You don't look like your ass is far off of center when you lean in. The MotoGP guys hang even further off. They're getting their elbows down, not because they lean so far. They're getting them down because of how far off the bike they're hanging.
Look at some photos to see where the pros are positioned when they're really leaned over. They are all hanging waaay off the side.
Maybe it's me, but I don't even see him leaning into the turn. He's riding like the sportbikes I see screaming around the ring roads surrounding major cities... All speed, no technique. Planted dead center on the seat like he's afraid to fall off.
Over lean…. when you’re more concerned with how much lean angle you have and not about what your lap times are you get that result, sliding across the track on your ass while your bike is off in a different direction.
I don't think this was throttle at all. You didn't shift your weight to the inside, which forced the bike to lean further than it was capable of leaning.
You didn't really get your knee down at all until after you were already off the bike. Being centered on the seat while deep in a turn limits your speed dramatically. Your riding like you're on an interstate with long slow changes in direction.
Your left cheek shouldn't even be on the seat during fast sharp left corners. At that speed, your right thigh should've been where you ass was. The further you can hang off the bars on the inside of those turns, the faster you can take them. (Also, when you're off the seat to the inside, you can get away with less throttle precision at lower speeds. Go fast enough and the throttle gets dicey again, but that'll be a lot faster than when you're still sitting directly on the center of the seat.)
Speed in the corners is all about weight transfer. Rear to front for initial bite, and from outside to inside to keep the tires gripping. Proper weight transfer keeps you off the sidewall edges where tires suddenly loose their bite.
This is why you should include upper body and grip strength training if you want to minimize your lap times. You have to really hang off the sides of the bike to build any real speed in the corners.
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u/Medic1248 Racer AM 23h ago
You were adding gas while increasing lean angle.
That’s generally a recipe for disaster unless you know where the limit of both is. You found that limit and passed it