Ableton Live for sequencing

[u/personoffinterest]

We are an indie rock band and want to set some synth passages as sequences or backing tracks during our performance. We have even considered making the PC the main director; to aid our drummer with the BPM, a voiceover to remind him of instrumental brakes, being able to loop when necessary to interact with the audience of something, etc. etc.

I’m completely new to this. I'm budgeting to get a Macbook Pro M1, which I've seen is reliable for Live? And also, eventually we'd like to sync pre-made visuals with each song on the set. My question might sound very wide, but outside of the Macbook (I'm a stranger to the MacOS system), what do I need? Audio interface? Mixer?

Bear in mind, with our current budget, we're thinking on only hooking up our drummer with headphones and guide the rest of the band through him. What should I know? What do I need? Any YouTube videos youd recommend ln the matter? Any tight budget gadgets you'd recommend? Cheers, folks

[u/abletonlivenoob2024]

sounds to me like you probably want to watch this (a drummer shows how he uses AL for their band doing most/all of the things you mentioned):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P9myytm8F54

[u/personoffinterest → u/abletonlivenoob2024]

Will check it out fellow noob lol, thanks :)!

[u/slizzbizness]

As the drummer/showrunner for a prominent indie/pop/electronic band who has used Ableton Live for a live show for over a decade- don't. Lol

There are good solutions out now that allow you to bypass the fucking hellscape that is an Ableton/laptop/interface run show, especially if you plan on live sequencing MIDI and such.

The Idoru P-1 or the M-Live B-Beat, these are both viable and solid options. The set-up and augmentation of your set is a bit more cumbersome but the rock solid performance will save your drummer's sanity and prevent any potential trainwrecks. 

I'm sure there will be plenty of inexperienced naysayers here, but they can get bent. I run our show on an Idoru P-1 and we play 1000-3500 cap venues when we headline, currently prepping our set for an opening tour in 10k+ capacity venues and if I was doing this on our old Ableton/PlayAudio12 rig I'd wanna hurl.

We run full SMPTE with two video streams, multi-channel midi sync, sampler patches, 4 channel tracks, etc. on this dumb lil box. Have had zero hiccups in 2 years.

Get yr drummer some cheap Shure SE-215 ears. The Behringer P-1 In-Ear amp will give them plenty of gain and it's dirt cheap. 

[u/personoffinterest → u/slizzbizness]

fakin'ell mate, just looked up the Idoru P-1 and it looks great! My question would mainly be if I can skip having a laptop in stage, or is it somewhat necessary for a part of the process? Also, can you add cues to it?

[u/slizzbizness → u/personoffinterest]

You can add cues, click, whatever you want.  No laptop on stage. (You will need a laptop/computer to assemble your set, you won't need it on stage. their software is super simple)

If you want to do synced videos, you should look up Resolume (pretty easy to find a cracked version) and watch a tutorial on SMPTE sync. (SMPTE is an audio signal you can send from your Idoru that acts as a timeline, the sound guys at the venue can patch it the same as any other audio signal and you can have a laptop chilling at front of house with your visuals on it.

[u/personoffinterest → u/slizzbizness]

sweet man deeply appreciate it❤️ i'll look into into and if something comes up, i'll reply to this thread. have a blessed one

[u/Dull_Flatworm777]

Steinberg VST Live might be another option worth looking into.

https://www.steinberg.net/vst-live/

If you primarily want to fly in sequences and cues, it might actually be a better fit.

Ableton is great if you want to arrange/change stuff live.

[u/personoffinterest → u/Dull_Flatworm777]

What exactly do you mean with arranging stuff live? Like I would like to be able to change the setlist without much complications prior to the show, loop sections, sync visuals, maybe lights at some point… Could I do that on Steinberg?? Thanks for the rec!

[u/Clear-Quantity2875]

The best money you can spend right now is a mentor to guide you through this. You’re in a world of a headache if you try to get this much info from randos online.

[u/hagcel → u/Clear-Quantity2875]

Dude, I was totally thinking of a response until I read yours.

Doesnt even need to be a mentor, can be a new band member. I wound up in a couple of bands playing synth and have this skill set.

[u/personoffinterest → u/hagcel]

Only know three guys in my local scene that do this live (veeery different genres from ours), but it'd be great.

[u/Clear-Quantity2875 → u/hagcel]

At this point in my life using Ableton has helped my career. I know what it’s capable of and its limitations. I realized that I could make money as a playback engineer and taylor what each bands needs all through Ableton.

[u/personoffinterest → u/Clear-Quantity2875]

Actually I'm partnering up with a fellow local scene member that does exactly this for his band. Only issue is he doesn't know how much to charge for their mentoring, or what the extent of it should be (like I'm not alien to DAW's or video editing for visuals, but all the programming-hardware bs is far beyond me)

[u/greatshortplant]

Visuals will get more complicated, but yes start with an audio interface. I personally recommend going with more IO than you think you need, because you will outgrow it (I have an 8x8 and always max out the 4 pre amps, even though i once thought it was way more than enough).

Beyond that, people will recommend mixers etc but you really don’t need them. Headphones out of an interface will be fine. If the drummer is meant to operate Ableton loops, you should consider a midi controller that fits their setup. That’s a whole separate topic, but the last thing you want is to have to use the keyboard and mouse during a show.

[u/personoffinterest → u/greatshortplant]

Helpful man, thanks. I saw the M-VAVE Chocolate Plus as a good, cheap, simple option. Any thoughts on any other MIDI controllers or the Audio Interface dude? Cheers!

[u/greatshortplant → u/personoffinterest]

Reading the other comments, I definitely take for granted my extended experience and expertise with Ableton. It’s a complicated, and sophisticated, piece of software. If you’re totally new to it, those people’s warnings should be given a lot of weight.

With that said, what you’re doing is bread and butter for Ableton. I personally use the presonus studio series for an interface (now fender studio I think). Excellent gear. You might find motu or focusrite fit your budget needs. Can’t vouch for them. But I’d recommend getting at least 4 outputs if you’re serious about this stuff. The reason is that usually that means you can have two stereo mixes (think one with click track for headphones and one without click to a monitor).

MIDI controllers go so deep. It really depends on the drummer and what they’re doing. Like, there are footswitch controllers if you only want “advance to next scene”. And there are grid controllers if you want more control. And there are drum pads if you want to hit it with a stick.

It’s a very useful skill set and setup to have in this day and age. But only you can decide if it’s best to outsource it.

[u/personoffinterest → u/greatshortplant]

I could outsource it with a bud, but in practical and financial terms we've concluded is unsustainable in the long run. For the interface I was thinking exactly 4 to 6 outputs for now, looking to upgrade it so we can hook up more IEMs when the time is right. Deeply, deeply appreciate your insight man. Imma start delving into setup videos to get an idea of just how complex it is. Although I have one more question… How does a grid controller work? I'm seeing the Launchpad X in a safari tab right now but I can't wrap my head around its operation

[u/greatshortplant → u/personoffinterest]

Of course, best of luck to you. Enjoy the journey!

For the controller, I think an important question to answer is whether you’ll use session or arrangement view in Ableton. I use session because I do more loop based performance. I think some bands use arrangement? Grid controllers are best for session, and likely overkill for your use case. Think of it like multiple “instruments” (columns) and multiple “riffs” (rows). For your genre, I’m guessing you’ll ultimately have the same stuff playing per track? Not swapping out playback elements on the fly? so arrangement would probably be less of a headache and learning curve. But again, I’ve never done it this way. Idk what new problems it brings up.

Also FYI seed to stage is the best Ableton teacher imo (YouTube). He plays in the band papadosio and runs a super complex live rig. Also knows Ableton’s ins and outs like no one else.

[u/personoffinterest → u/greatshortplant]

my man, i'll look into him. your explanation of the grid controller was as clear as can be, deeply appreciate it <3

[u/AutoModerator]

This is your friendly reminder to read the submission rules, they're found in the sidebar. If you find your post breaking any of the rules, you should delete your post before the mods get to it. If you're asking a question, make sure you've checked the Live manual, Ableton's help and support knowledge base, and have searched the subreddit for a solution. If you don't know where to start, the subreddit has a resource thread. Ask smart questions.

I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please contact the moderators of this subreddit if you have any questions or concerns.

[u/Sapin-]

I'm looking into MPCs right now and I think many MPCs are DAWs-in-a-box, and could work for your audio needs... or probably a hundred other devices, that are not computers. Why Ableton?

Start with your needs, and look at what exists.

[u/black_shirt]

hey cool thing you can do with ableton live is send in live audio from your dummer and ableton will tempo match that in real time, set project and all downstream lanes to the constantly fluctuating bpm. I use it all the time for my modular and external synths. Put on an lfo and get some oscillator beating and it just feels natural. Not stuck to the grid, the grid sticks to me! Second, yeah I have a macbook pro m1 and it's is as fast as anything I have ever used. I have 32gb of RAM, so if you don't idk - I know with unified memory the whole system benefits from high RAM unlike windows pc.

[u/personoffinterest → u/black_shirt]

holy shit that sounds awesome! never even thought that was a possibility. how can i look further into setting that up? i'm sold!

[u/Onlyfaintedtwice]

It would be playback engineers job in work with the band to answer all of your questions, and program ableton to accomplish all of your needs!

PM me I may have a way to help you!

[u/numberwitch]

damn imagine having a fucking computer voiceover tell you to hit your cues lol

[u/nytebeast → u/numberwitch]

This is really common in the pop world with more elaborate stage shows. I don’t see how it’s any different from a director or tech doing the same thing, which has been going on for decades

[u/GentleWhiteGiant → u/numberwitch]

Well, in the whole theater world, that is totally normal, except that it is not a computer. Actually, at least in Germany, it is even a separate profession ("Inspizient". It translates to stage manager, but he or she also guides the sound and light operators).

Big advantage from the drummer's point of view (hint: My instruments are guitar and drums): If your fucking lead guitar player wants to solo for 64 bars, you don't have to count them, but you just wait for the hint. Doesn't need to be a voice, I use another clavé sound on the click for that.