I have a boss with an ADHD spouse who is actually genuinely empathetic about these little quirks and the value I find in not needing to perform or explain is worth dealing with all the other nonsense in the role.
My first boss has ADHD, and was actually the one who pushed me to get myself tested, as he saw all the patterns.
I must say I am lucky enough to still work with them, and to not have yet experienced a boss that does not understand how our brains work differently from the rest. It’s a blessing (although I do have to deal with his ADHD quirks from time to time, but it’s more than worth it)
I stare at lips while people talk to me. In my head the words I hear form with the movement of their lips. If I try to be polite and hold eye contact then I can barely remember what they said.
Same! I will say my husband tends to monologue sometimes about aspects of his job that go over my head after awhile. In those instances, I usually need to say "I'm listening" as I walk over and finish a small task that my attention has become fixated on in the background.
Me too it’s hard for me to concentrate on what I’m saying or thinking unless I’m using my hands and looking everywhere else but the subject I’m talking to. But I can listen while looking for a set amount of time.
However doodling or doing something while listening to something is how I actually retain information. I got in so much trouble in school for drawing while listening to lectures and when I had to stop I couldn’t recall what I’d just heard. It’s like my brain focuses on the boredom of not doing anything more than what it’s supposed to be listening to, but a mundane task where that part of my brain is busy frees up the ability to properly listen without distraction.
Weird, I’m the opposite. I feel like I come across really intense when I’m explaining something cause I keep staring the person in the eyes to make sure they’re getting what I’m saying lol
I'm in my 40s and this is me. I can speak in front of hundreds of people without issue, but if I'm looking at a specific person, I just cannot conjure the words so I just look past people at nothing.
I look all over the freaking place when I'm talking, but I do try to at least make my eyes land on people's faces when I'm talking to them.
If I'm talking about something that's difficult for me to talk about, then I literally HAVE to look away and fidget with something or I'm just gonna implode into myself and become a sad, mute, rock.
Sooo, uhh, is there a chart for that? Cos I musta misplaced mine lol
Srsly, I could do with a chart that highlights which situations require sustained eye contact for x period, and which don't - I smh still haven't worked it out yet!
At this point it's been decades and now I'm just too afraid to let the right ppl know I zoned out during those (apparently quite important, and certainly useful) eye contact lessons that everyone else seems to have gotten at some point! :D
The way most people learn is by observing others and emulating their behavior, but the problem is that this doesn't always come naturally/easily to ND folks
I had a professor who had a nervous tic that prolonged eye contact made him reflexively smile. Every single time. But, I was just trying to be respectful and I liked him as a teacher. What it meant is that I held eye contact too long and then it would make him tic and I would stare longer because it was interesting, then realize I was making him uncomfortable and abruptly stop. Making it worse. It was a vicious cycle. If I knew what I know now, I would be a much better communicator and wouldn’t have stressed this poor guy out. Damn my parents for never getting me tested and ignoring every indicator.
i wish i could do that but i don’t understand how to hold eye contact and can only just stare at one eye at a time. I usually just pick one at random but then i make it too obvious on accident and they’re like “why are you staring at my left eye?” i don’t fucking KNOW, i’m just following these weird RULES to the best of my ability
Also super effective for walking against the flow of people, if you look through the people rather than at them they tend to subconsciously think you don’t see them so they get out of your way.
The real trick is that neurotypical people lie about what eye contact is because it's instinctual so they don't actually understand what it really is. It's not staring eye-pupil-to-eye-pupil. It's looking at facial micro-expressions, typically formed by the dozens of tiny facial muscles that are concentrated around the other person's eyes. To fake it, don't look directly at the person's eyes, look at the parts of their face around their eyes. Don't look at any one place for too long, because for neurotypicals, the eye is naturally drawing a small pattern over the various different face muscles to read the person's expression. They don't even consciously notice that that's what they're actually doing.
I started telling people in 2001 they don't want my undivided attention. If I am totally focused on you while you are talking, I look like I am coldly calculating for how much I could sell the chemicals your body is made of. Also, you will probably have to repeat yourself anyway.
That part is hilarious. I do my room scanning and I see them staring directly, so I’ll give them direct eye contract and then they start to look around 😂
I’ve also realized maybe I look like I’m staring into people’s souls when I’m trying to show interest. I have bigger eyes so I’m almost positive I look like a complete psycho. Oh well. Let’s all look like psychopaths together.
I did until my wife let me know that I looked like I was going to murder her. She worked with me on it and the best tip she gave me was to smile as if natural, then pay attention to how the edges of my eyes feel and let my smile down while maintaining that stress on the corner of my eyes. So I'm either doing that which is good, or I look like I'm plotting something (not so great). Still working on the exact amount of stress and where it's supposed to be without smiling.
I'd love to hear from ADHDers who aren't AuDHD: is this something you all struggle with? I'm "just" ADHD and while I fidget a lot I have no problems at all with eye contact. I'm just wondering if I'm the odd one out or if this is another example of "neurodivergent" just meaning "autistic" again.
As far as I know, I’m not autistic, but I dislike eye contact. It’s not like I have a compulsion to not look someone in the eye, it just feels far too intimate to me. I’ve learned to get over it some, but I still tend to avoid eye contact unless necessary.
My wife, however, is autistic, and has no qualms with eye contact whatsoever.
Nope, not really. Sometimes I will look away or work on a task while talking, but it's never been a struggle to have eye contact while holding a conversation.
Protip for some people here: Eye contact isn't a "you need to stare them in the eyes the entire time" thing. It's a "You just need to show them that you are actively participating in the conversation through body language" thing.
I have to do one or the other depending on the conversation. Eye contact is for instructions, teaching, work related topics, stuff like that. Most everything else i like to have something else to look at or mess with while I talk because it helps me feel less vunerable somehow.
I'm also "just" ADHD, and have no issues with eye contact. If my attention wanders, eye contact can actually help me process what someone is saying. If I start looking at other things I'm much more likely to lose focus on the conversation at hand. Everyone's milage may vary with ADHD, but the eye contact thing is absolutely not an issue for all neurodivergent people... it actually kinda annoys me how often autistic experiences are labeled as overarching neurodivergent issues even though a lot (or even most) people with ADHD don't relate to the topic at hand.
The mouth is far enough down that people can usually tell. But the nose is literally between the eyes so each eye thinks your looking at the other one and to them it looks like perfect eye-contact while you can comfortably look at that lump of flesh inbetween them
Disagree, third option is I can stare into your soul with such unbreaking eye contact that it feel like I'm crawling into your skull, while listening. Turns out no one likes being stared down like that, even people who want eye contact.
This is a problem one of my kids has, and I’m trying to help them with missing physical cues.
If they aren’t looking at a person when that person points to something, they miss a basic visual cue. But they aren’t letting us know, so the kid just stands there with only half the info they need while we both get frustrated.
Also, because they don’t look at the face or see body language, all the information they get is tone. And as a lot of folks here have experienced, tone doesn’t equal meaning.
My sibling is like this. Completely refuses eye contact or any other indication that information is being absorbed and taken seriously. Also wriggles away from any conversation (usually about themselves/their behavior) they might find "uncomfortable" while happily bringing up taboo or gross subjects to make others uncomfortable. I'd like to be more accommodating but honestly it comes across and disrespectful a lot of the time. It's frustrating.
I'm really glad to read that you're working through this with your kid. Those are important skills to have in life.
I feel I constantly see posts on subreddits like this one and r/curatedtumblr where people are very upset/frustrated by a perceived inability of others to communicate clearly, only for it to turn out the OP refuses to try to make eye contact, read body language, or ask probing questions.
When you find something important to be difficult, you don't just throw up your hands and make it everyone else's problem- You practice the skills needed until they are at least manageable. It has taken me years to learn to work through the problems ADHD gives me, and I still often struggle, but not trying would have been much worse.
You don't have to like communicating with others, but you do need to try.
Im just adhd and I have a hard time looking at people in the eyes or I hear way better when im not making eye contact. Its been a problem for me because I work blue collar and have all the "look me in the eyes" type of dudes around me.
Im also not an expert in any of those things, I just know I am very ADHD and have never been diagnosed for autism.
That’s how I interpreted it as well. I have ADHD, but not autism and I don’t struggle with eye contact from a social standpoint. However… if I feel like I HAVE to maintain it for a whole conversation I start to get the hypers and need to move. And if I can’t then I tend to just lock in so it looks like I’m listening.
I know everyone’s a bit different, but this did resonate with me.
And even then, not every person with autism is going to struggle with eye contact. Some autistic people will be able to look you in the eyes without their brain prolapsing.
Honestly these kinds of posts are so irritating. No wonder so many people treat neurodivergent people like a spooked horse.
It's complicated, but also bear in mind people with ADHD can have eye contact issues, albeit for very different reasons. Like many things, the two disorders can have similar symptoms with very different causes.
Yeah, my autistic toddler demands attention from strangers and will walk up to everyone in a waiting room and wave, loudly exclaiming “Hi!”, making very direct eye contact with each person individually, until they return his greeting.
Right? I have ADHD but not autism and I have no problem making eye contact (and whether or not my brain retains information from a verbal conversation has very little to do with how much eye contact was made)
Like many symptoms of ADHD and autism, they can both present the symptom but for vastly different reasons. It is absolutely something people with ADHD can struggle with. Maintaining eye contact can require active cognitive load just like refraining from fidgeting too much can while looking away can allow them to process better.
Does it actually feel painful to make eye contact? With people I am comfortable with I can do it for short periods of time, but others it's like it physically hurts to meet their eyes and I have to look away.
Yes - except I wouldn’t say my “entire brain” is throwing my body/face into neutral. Barely a fraction of my brain is doing that - the rest has taken a trip to imagination land.
I cannot get anyone to understand this. The mental energy it takes for me to look like I'm listening means I will retain none of the information. Staring off into space and fidgeting? I will be able to recall this entire conversation years from now.
Trying to make blanket rules about neurodivergent brains is an interesting choice given that the word itself amounts to “this brain isnt going to brain the way youd expect”
I find so much camaraderie amongst fellow ND folks and we have lots in common but good lick nailing me down with other people’s specifics 🙃
It was such a relief when I finally realized I'm looking away so I can actually listen and comprehend... And then I could tell people that if it bothered them. I felt a lot of shame around it for a while.
all neuro divergent people aren't the same, i have if-i'm-staring-at-you-then-I'm-deeply-paying-attention autism. i hold eye contact too much until the other person is uncomfortable, so i have to performatively look away
My active listening presents itself as noticing everything about you but your eyes. I can tell you what outfit you were wearing, your earrings/facial hair/whatever are forever burned into my memory, along with our conversation.
If I make eye contact, all I see is you looking at me, and everything else stops making sense.
I've gotten better, through lots of practice. Humans love eye contact. It makes them feel seen. Trouble is, it also makes me feel seen. And I don't much care for that.
I stare directly at your eyes like I'm trying to bore holes in your brain.
It's a reflex from the abuse when I was a kid. Not staring meant I would be hit, depending the day, maybe only once, but usually until I stopped moving(90% of the time I was unconscious before I stopped trying to get away)
Sometimes I forget I'm looking someone in the eyes while doing it🫣 Happened just a few days ago while (or rather, after) talking to a child about good and bad choices, and thereby stared them down to make the better decision 😅
Ok. You can do this. Look them in the eye. Not both, idiot. Stop doing that. Pick one. Ok that's long enough, switch to the other eye. Remember to breathe. Oh god you haven't blinked in like 4 minutes. Lean on an elbow. Too far. Shit they stopped talking.
...uh yeah
Nod twice so it's not too much. You're doing good. Back to Lisa Lopez. Remember to breathe. For gods sake, blink. Not that much. Switch eyes. Do that little 'mmm' and nod thing people do when they have nothing to add to the conversation. So I creep, yeah. Just keep it on the down low. Man TLC was great.
Seems silly to me to use the umbrella term "neurodivergent" here when many people with the disorders that fall under that umbrella term do not have issues with eye contact. If we're trying to educate people we may as well be accurate and specific.
This is exactly me....omg. i have tried to describe that I am listening more when I look away. What sucks is my dad is partially deaf so he always get in front of me so he can hear me better/lip read.
Not for me. I also have audio processing issues, tinnitus, and am partially deaf in my left ear. I'm genuinely paying the most attention to you because if I can't watch your lips moving, I can't understand you.
Same. My wife gets really pissed when talking to me (typically on dog walks) because I'm looking around all over the place, fidgeting with something in my pocket but absorbing the words. She tests me a lot. For fuck's sake.
I learned that if my brain just can not stick the conversation in my head, I don't need to recall everything or even have a clue as to what is going on as long as every now and again you repeat back to them the last thing they said, but in the form of a question. I know that someone will be upset with me and get frustrated repeating themselves if I tell them that I am having trouble with ADHD brain letting things click, but all they want is to think you are following all of it. Like I can't do that and maintain eye contact so if you want both then I have to fake it.
Yes! However, it’s harder for me to maintain eye contact while talking to someone. I have to look away to think what I’m saying.
If I want to pay attention to someone, I find I have to look at them directly while they are talking to “tune out” distractions.
Talking and listening in person feels awkward and uncomfortable, but the challenge is worth it to me for the human contact. Texting has made simple communication easier, but doesn’t help me connect. It’s great for my business, but not as great for my interpersonal relationships. I also wait for people to call me because it seems like an imposition now vs a text. I’m weird, but I’ve accepted it, and I’m grateful.
eye contact is a myth created by eye drop corporations in the mid 20th century in order foster social norms conductive to the agenda of the lunar underground regime. real confidence is achieved by active day dreaming in the middle of conversations as you imagine every possible scenario simultaneously all while cockroach posing.
I’m in grad school for counseling and we’ve been talking a ton about active listening - signs that you are listening as the counselor and signs that your client is listening. This is one of the things I’ve been saying! Listening looks different for everyone and you don’t always know
I remember back when I was in school when I was picked on to read, my entire body turned me into a microphone and I was unable to process what I was reading at all. Reading silently or listening to someone else was much more efficient with my adhd scatter brain.
Lmao! I try SO HARD to retain proper eye contact at work that I often only remember the part of the convo where I mentally said "switch eyes so I dont make them uncomfortable. Now break eye contact briefly. Now look again, get a serious look, and say mmhmm"
I have this very clear memory of going to a professional development workshop as a teenager and them stressing about how important eye contact is and how to do it. That memory has been my crutch for years in any profession situation. Idk what I'd do without it
Teachers when I was a kid: "Easy the child needs to look at me and hold still. Doing the obedience performance is much more important than learning anything"
I love sunglasses because they let people assume eye contact I'm not actually making - until they decide to be annoyed I have sunglasses on in a context they didn't expect
What the hell is this? I have ADHD and I cannot listen unless I give my undivided attention, aka looking at the speaker. You can still fidget with your hands and look at someone. Every single friend and co-worker I have dealt with that stares off into space when I'm explaining something has almost always never listened.
Look I am absolutely sure that there are people who struggle with eye contact and its distracting for them, but this reads as some pseudo intellectual cope made by people trying to excuse their bad habits.
Fuck I hate how having ADHD has become "trendy" in the sense people without a diagnosis will pretend they're afflicted because their social habits are dogshit and its easier to conveniently excuse them instead of making an effort to change.
I think about eye contact, too much it too little, where I think the person is going with what they're saying and how I'm going to react to that, an I moving weird, is my expression appropriate, am I hungry, am I tired, all while trying to retain what the person is saying.
I see it in my wife, too. When I'm telling her something, her eyes will kinda glaze over and I know I'm going to have to repeat what I just said, which has actually helped me with patience and being more mindful of what and how I'm trying to communicate.
Can confirm. Even if I respond, that doesn't mean I remember what you have said. Especially if you took me from something that I had occupied my brain with. My mom had situations where she gave me a task and I responded that I was going to do that and for the life of me I could neither remember that interaction or the task.
I’ve had conversations with people where I literally couldn’t even remember what race they were afterward because all of my attention was focused on looking “normal.” This was not helpful when I needed to describe someone to a police officer.
Yeah... no thanks. I'm not picking one FOR the neuro-divergent person. They can pick one so I don't get canceled picking for them and telling the divergent person how they should be.
As i was told i had to repeat first grade my mom took me somewhere and had a talk that I needed to stare at peoples eyeballs. It didn't matter that it was silly, or weird, that people wanted me to stare at their eyeballs. School got easier as I learned to manage everyone's expectations on my behavior. I still feel like its stupid that the humans need eyeball reassurance.
I’m a less severe ADHD person married to a more ADHD. I do need some eye contact once in a while. I give. I’m glad to give, but part of this society thing is communicating to others together - not on either of us to lift exclusively.
Me pretending to take notes is my way of getting around this. 😅
I will usually make check marks while listening, or write down key words to jog my memory later. Never actually taking notes, but it makes me look professional while fidgeting.
I’m the exact opposite.. my partner could be in the same room as me talking to me but unless I am looking at her it is impossible for me to remember what she says
Nah. I disagree entirely with this. That isn't to say it's not true of some ND people, but it's far from universally true.
I have turbo ADHD (highest legal dosage of XR you can take MULTIPLE times daily) and have no issues with eye contact.
In fact, I taught public speaking, so I am well-aware of what works and what doesn't with nonverbal communication both individually and in front of crowds. Eye contact is easy. What's not easy is ACTUALLY listening and not just waiting for your turn to talk.
I struggled with this SO MUCH growing up, I would have someone explain something to me and the whole time I'm not actually listening to what they are saying but rather focusing too much on 'looking' like I am listening, only for me to sheepishly ask them to repeat what they just said and reassure them that I'm not slow, it's just my brain didn't listen
This is the reason I have perfected the art of using very engaged backchanneling.
Since they lack one of the major visual cues that I'm listening, I make up for it with exaggerated expressions lol
(For those unfamiliar, backchanneling is basically IRL react emoticons. Verbal things like "Ok", "Wow.", "No way!", "Uh huh", "Hmm", or non-verbal reactions like dropping your jaw or giving someone the side-eye.)
The stupidest thing with me is that at least for a couple of seconds my gaze just drops down, which with women looks like im staring at their breasts, until i remember to look elsewhere
Autistic person here, I actually really value eye contact because it helps me fully focus on what I’m saying and what’s being said to me. It’s also how I know the person is truly engaged
I always like to say “listen I have 120% of an attention span. I need to do something with the other 20% before I can give you 100%. If you try to make me use all of it on you I’m going to overload”.
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