r/anime • u/AutoLovepon https://anilist.co/user/AutoLovepon • 14d ago
Episode The Ghost in the Shell • Koukaku Kidoutai (TV) - Episode 7 discussion
Koukaku Kidoutai (TV), episode 7
Alternative names: Koukaku Kidoutai, Koukaku Kidoutai (2026)
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u/slicer4ever 14d ago
man, this feels like an end of season sort of episode, didn't expect such existential material in the middle of the season.
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u/Ultramarinus https://anidb.net/user/kingsword 14d ago
Only 3 more episodes though so we are nearing the end unfortunately.
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u/slicer4ever 14d ago
oh, didn't realize this was 10 episode season :(
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u/darkthought 14d ago
HAVE YOU SEEN THE BACKGROUNDS?
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u/Raiking02 https://myanimelist.net/profile/NSKlang 14d ago
This is what happens when the Manga is, like, two Volumes long at most, there's only so much to even adapt.
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u/chaosof99 https://myanimelist.net/profile/chaosof99 14d ago
This episode is basically a retelling of a major plot point of the first movie from 1995, or rather the movie's plot was an amalgamation of multiple parts of the original manga, which this series is more closely adapting as their original chapters. It is pretty much in the middle of the season because it is where it is located in the original manga.
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u/SA090 https://anilist.co/user/SA090 14d ago
This was visually, a masterpiece.
Overall, this was an insane episode and in a way, difficult to understand for me. What I did understand is that The Puppet Master was used to learn and apply any information it learned as directed by 6, before it became sentient. And in turn, tried to rebel or escape. The Major despite being a very advanced cyborg, still faces some human limitations and in this case, taking all of that insane amount information in. On the same level as the AI that is. Which makes her go into an existential crisis that might have been similar to The Puppet Master’s own sentient awakening.
Can’t wait to see the next one and the repercussions of this one!
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u/tottoro47 14d ago
Banger episode, didn't understand shit the last 10 minutes lmao. The visuals reminded me of Evangelion for some reason but it was absolutely beautiful to look at
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u/JosebaZilarte 13d ago
Frankly, "not understanding shit" (and having the maturity to admit it) can be a great thing for the audience. It makes you ponder and seek an answer somewhere else, making you learn along the way.
The 1995s movie adaptation of the plot of this episode was one of the reasons why I decided to study computer science. And I am far from being the only one inspired by that film.
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u/holyerthanthou 14d ago
Puppet master was connecting to something that Kosinski couldn’t comprehend as it was fading and got dragged along… since she couldn’t comprehend it it became a bizzaro religious experience. Kind of
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u/Limp-Sail7687 13d ago
I've really missed that Eva feeling, very familiar and alienating at the same time. Happy I'm able to experience it once more
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u/Zeroth-unit 14d ago
Considering that this episode was basically the premise for Oshii's first film, safe to say I'm satisfied. But holy fuck that was wild to watch.
The sheer gall to be this high concept in what should have been a routine apprehension and entrapment turned conspiracy into a not-quite AI gaining sentience then going through what can only be described as a post-mortem religious experience, Jesus Christ. Inject this shit into my veins.
God I love this adaptation. It's definitely quirkier and more chaotic but holy shit it is raw and I love it for it.
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u/Charming-Loquat3702 14d ago
In a way, it's hard to watch this without looking through the 1995 movie lense. And honestly, there is a certain SAC part of my brain that always wants some attention as well.
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u/Zeph-Shoir https://myanimelist.net/profile/Zephex 14d ago
I am so happy we got like 3 different flavored cakes of GitS
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u/RimeSkeem https://myanimelist.net/profile/RimeSkeem 13d ago
I think the idea of the Stand Alone Complex is in this original form too. A spontaneously arising higher-power/enlightened (?) network that exceeds anything either human or machine feels like part of what was explored in SAC1.
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u/Charming-Loquat3702 13d ago
That's why it's always in the back of my mind when I watch this. It's also the first series that made me really a fan of GitS, so it has a special place for me anyway.
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u/E_Hoba 14d ago edited 14d ago
The point of the ending is that Puppet Master lost the connections to digital networks and the prosthetic body. In the dark, closed world, a vast unidentified network appeared out of nowhere. That network always exists, but ordinary human beings cannot recognize it. Motoko indirectly experienced it by connecting with Puppet Master.
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u/cyberscythe 14d ago
yeah, i feel like it's a concept that's related to the collective unconscious from Jungian psychology
i find that this idea of a collective mind or greater existence that we are all attached to unconsciously is something that comes up a lot in Eastern media, like the lifestream in Final Fantasy VII or the demon's source of power in Chainsaw Man
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u/chipperpip 14d ago
Yeah, the Ghost in the Shell mangas (both the first volume and Man Machine Interface) get way into what I can only describe as speculative Shintoist quantum physics in their later chapters.
It's pretty exciting to see it actually being adapted instead of only hinted at.
As someone who actually appreciates MMI despite its flaws, I'd love it if we got a full adaptation of it someday, maybe integrating some of the extra Section 9 stuff from 1.5 Human Error Processor so it doesn't take place quite so heavily in cyberspace.
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u/lethal_universed 14d ago
Its the collective unconsciousness made literal. If I remember my personality psych class correctly, the CU is meant to be the representation of subconscious insticts we are born with, beyond just survival but how we recognize others in specific roles. Either she is witnessing everyones subconscious minds or she is seeing the fundamental constitution of all human beings, which is more accurate to CU.
Crazy how the puppet master was able to access this and drag Motoko along for the ride. Maybe it was because it was a lifeform born from the visible streams of consciousness and info that it could reveal the deeper level upon its death
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u/BosuW 14d ago
I'm thinking it comes from Taoism. But for the average layman, just think of how the Force is usually explained in Star Wars.
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u/cyberscythe 14d ago
it's my understanding that Jung took a lot of inspiration from Eastern philosophies and integrated it into the more individualist Western/Freudian paradigm
there has been plenty of cross-pollination though, like how Persona series uses terms lifted from Jungian psychology
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u/AceSoldia zj:https://anilist.co/user/Acesoldia 14d ago
Huh .ok thanks I was too dumb to understand what was happening. But I felt enlightened 😂
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u/Zeph-Shoir https://myanimelist.net/profile/Zephex 14d ago
So, the Puppet Master is losing everything that attaches them to the physical world, in these "dying moments" they are "connecting with an afterlife" and since Motoko connected with them beforehand she is also experiencing it?
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u/another_mouse 14d ago
Wait, Serial Experiments Lain happens inside the GitS universe? So that guy Lain meets is…
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u/Weak_Season_Of_Anime 14d ago
What am I watching?
Did Motoko just ghost out of the shell to meet the AI god?
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u/AceSoldia zj:https://anilist.co/user/Acesoldia 14d ago
I..I think she finally became enlightened or witnessed the puppet master become that and she could only witness..I have no idea
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u/LordIndica 13d ago
Serious answer and my best estimate: the puppet master was an emergent consciousness that started as an advanced pseudo-AI program made in a foreign nation that waas used to optimize the performance of several corporations at the behest of insiders and via nefarious means. The episode referenced how the PupMast used a proxy to purchase huge shares of platinum to profit off of the events of the events of the 2nd episode, as an example. It at some point the larged decentralized program gains a pseudo-ghost /self-awareness (behold, the ghost in the machine) while combing the vast amounts of data it could access.
Eventually, Section 6 orchestrated a means to "catch" the PupMast and baits it to being uploaded into the cyber brain of a robot. They succeed, it flees to Section 9 as a means to escape being captured by section 6 and returned to it's "home" nation or otherwise corruptly sold for nefarious purposes (it is the greatest hacker ever caught in a jar, basically).
The Major and friends catch up to the guys (henchmen of section 6) that snatched the ai's new body as they tried to escape the country with it. They don't want it known that they were commiting cyber crime, and the PupMast has the evidence, albiet they say to the Major that they made a deadmans switch to release the evidence if they whiteout. Anyway, a failsafe engages and blows up the Pupmast and hopefully the testimony of the crimes with it, but section 9 manage to connect to the rapidly decaying cyber brain containing the PupMast and attempt to save the data therein. The major, in the process, dives very deep into that decaying mind attempting to save it, even butting up against something that wasn't quite a Ghost, but was definitely there. Here is where it gets tricky...
As their minds intertwine, the major using her own cyber brain partitioned to hopefully allow the PupMast to remain a coherent consciousness while being corralled by her, the PupMast waxxing on philosophically about the beginings of life, LITERALLY CONNECTS TO THE NEURAL NETWORK OF THE UNIVERSE ITSELF.
think about it, friend! What is reality but a bunch of virtual particles in various superpositions of being and not-being, a quantum binary in the electromagnetic background radiation of our reality? Kusanagi has an out-of-body experience as she briefly, through her shared senses with the AI pupmast, experiences her ghost operating on the network of the very magnetism of the larger universe.
Our good ol' major witnessed a new sort of lifeform die as it became unmoored from the physicality of its organization and in the process was born again as it functionally uploads itself into the larger fabric of reality after its near-death experience granted it new insight into the nature of the universe. Because the Major lacked the appropriate neural pathways to preceive the sensations of binding with this larger network of reality, she merely preceives it as intense light, while the AI pupmast begins to Integrate itself as a vast computer brain that runs on the on/off transistors of the very particles that make up reality.
We roll to credits as the Major perceives the consciousness of the Puppet Master from and out-of-body experience while she breifly has her ghost being run on that same network of reality.
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u/Frontier246 14d ago
Kikuko Inoue once again becomes a Goddess with wings. Welcome back Belldandy.
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u/za_shiki-warashi 14d ago
Becoming a digital goddess to once again ensure she's forever 17 years old.
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u/XsStreamMonsterX 14d ago
That she's using her deeper voice for older characters gives me more Grace from Macross Frontier vibes. Fitting when you consider what she turned out to be in that series.
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u/Vaadwaur 14d ago
The AI god reports that it connecting to a network that could not be explained by the digital-electrical one. Take that for whatever you choose to believe.
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u/OtakuAttacku 13d ago
Feel like I just went through a religious experience. Saw something I was not meant to understand.
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u/Sapsane 14d ago
What the fuck is happening hahahaha
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u/za_shiki-warashi 14d ago
You see the moment Oshii decided he needs to make 2 movies out of it.
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u/Sapsane 14d ago
i am baffled how the merged scene is waaaay better in this series. I am like a huge fan of the first movie and also the second.
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u/BasroilII 14d ago
Because it has more time to explain things clearly. That scene was like 10, maybe 15 minutes in the movie. And parts of it were taken up by the spider tank fight and all the political intrigue between sections 6 and 9.
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u/ThrowCarp 13d ago
I was about to say, I'm pretty sure between the pissing match between Section 9 and Section 6, the discovery of a consciousness arising from an AI wandering around the net, and the Major attempting to braindive it only to be overwhelmed.
I'm pretty sure we're speedrunning the 1995 movie.
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u/Frontier246 14d ago
Cyber ascension to divinity? The meaning of life and personhood? The evolution of AI? Naked cyborg waifu's?
Take your pick.
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u/Ultramarinus https://anidb.net/user/kingsword 14d ago
Need to see next episode to talk definitively but it appears that Puppet Master merged with Motoko’s ghost as it was about to die in that shell to cheat death.
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u/shad79 https://myanimelist.net/profile/shad79 14d ago edited 14d ago
I don't have a freaking idea either, but this episode was certainly... mesmerizing. The city at night and rain, Motoko getting inside Puppet Master's mind(?) made it quite an experience.
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u/shad79 https://myanimelist.net/profile/shad79 14d ago edited 14d ago
This episode was something... although I don't know what exactly it was. I'd definitely describe it as mesmerizing though, especially after Motoko connected with Puppet Master and all those things started happening on the screen.
Visuals of the city at night and rain were great, although second part of the episode with Motoko inside Puppet Master was even better, even if I don't even know what most things presented on the screen were, lol.
By the way, Motoko is back to her blue hair, is that a sign that she broke up with her boyfriend from the previous episode perhaps?
Here my screenshot albums from the episode:
EDIT. I added my screenshot albums.
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u/Frontier246 14d ago
By the way, Motoko is back to her blue hair, is that a sign that she broke up with her boyfriend from the previous episode perhaps?
I think the hair color had more to do with the meeting she was having (hence her official uniform that got trashed) than her relationship status. At least I'd hope.
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u/CavulusDeCavulei 14d ago
Shirow didn't even give a name to the boyfriend, so...
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u/AceSoldia zj:https://anilist.co/user/Acesoldia 14d ago
I think she just had the brown for her meeting she was supposed to have and maybe wanted to be more professional than usual...I hope she's still with that guy..I liked him
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u/Golden_Phi https://myanimelist.net/profile/GoldenPhi 14d ago
I liked him
Yeah, she attacked him, but he still went to save her.
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u/CardAble6193 13d ago
back to her blue hair,
she was blasted to shit , mostly she swap the whole body
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u/Shamn_it 14d ago
It's very difficult to follow this episode line by line but the context/visuals somehow get you there and I got goosebumps man. What a beautiful episode! Especially the scene where the puppet master talks about going beyond their meager functions and achieving true freedom.
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u/za_shiki-warashi 14d ago edited 14d ago
Melancholic rainy setting, AI who supposedly gained sentience attempting to explain the minute metaphysical elements she witnessed that the Major can't even begin to truly perceive, all while juxtaposed against how fragile and potentially fleeting her existence is... yeap, it's that "like tears in the rain" scene all over again.
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u/cyberscythe 14d ago
whatever it was, it felt like Motoko was witnessing the true facet of reality in way that human minds cannot process
the way that the angel shows up makes me think its like the nature of divinity that is so vast and grand that it can't be perceived and processed by the human brain other than just "light", sort of like the opposite of a Lovecraftian horror (or maybe very similar??)
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u/pi8you 14d ago edited 14d ago
it's like that "tears in the rain" scene all over again.
I think they snuck in a Blade Runner nod directly at the start of the episode, when they show up at the Megatech building there's a couple of quick bot shots that feel like they could've come from Sebastian's apartment
Edit: and the Giant Coke Geisha Ad parody
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u/chilidirigible 13d ago
I think they snuck in a Blade Runner nod directly at the start of the episode
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u/Frontier246 14d ago
And this was probably the story that most inspired the Mamoru Oshii movies and their entire tone/ethos.
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u/LeaveNoPresence 14d ago
"This has real Cyberpunk 2077 vibes," said the guy whose experience with this genre is the Cyberpunk 2077 video game.
I half jokingly say that about myself. This has been an amazing adaptation of GitS.
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u/tethercat 14d ago
As much as I want to echo what everyone else in these comments are saying...
...can we all just take a moment to collectively praise how much of a gremlin Batou is?
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u/LeonKevlar x2https://myanimelist.net/profile/LeonKevlar 14d ago edited 14d ago
Anyone who has seen the 1995 movie should be very familiar with this episode. It's pretty cool to see the OG Puppet Master and how things unfold from the original source material. Seeing Motoko do an emergency dive and pretty much start having an existential and religious experience while inside the Puppet Master's mind really shows why Mamoru Oshii decided to make a movie based on this entire arc.
Despite all the goofiness of the Major and the bright colours, you can see in this episode the blueprint for the Ghost in the Shell that everyone fell in love with. Man, I really need to rewatch the movies. It's been so long.
Side note: Kikuko Inoue as the Puppet Master's voice was a great choice. It really added to that final scene.
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u/Frontier246 14d ago
Side note: Kikuko Inoue as the Puppet Master's voice was a great choice. It really added to that final scene.
Also the interplay between her and Maaya Sakamoto's voice during the scene when Motoko let the Puppet Master speak through her was VERY effective.
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u/AceSoldia zj:https://anilist.co/user/Acesoldia 14d ago
Ahh I thought it felt familiar but it's been so long since I saw that movie
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u/Zekka_Space_Karate 8d ago edited 8d ago
Think of the entire "goofy party animal" Motoko as a foreshadowing of sorts. To think that this version of the Major that has an active life outside of her work has no idea of the events that she'll face and the decision that she'll make that'll change her life forever. A contrast of the "before" and "after" sides of the being known as Motoko Kusanagi.
This is why I consider the show emphasizing her non serious personality as an important plot point.
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u/winmace https://myanimelist.net/profile/winmace 14d ago
Why the hell am I crying?
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u/International_Leg666 14d ago
Yes. Had to lock in on the subtitles on this one.. So we have AI ish gain sentience, then ascendance?
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u/giubba85 14d ago edited 14d ago
yesen't . Basically the puppet master begun as a gestalt mind, basically an amalgamation of different conscience (in this case singualr software) that in solitude aren't aware enough to be considerer sentient but aggregated reached sentience, the physical body was basically a bonus but unnecessary to its existence.
The whole second part is basically Mokoto brain trying to give sense to information that her ghost isn't equipped to decode (the whole religious vibe) so it super impressed the whole white light and angelic theme.
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u/anticomet 14d ago
My read on it was Puppet Master tried hacking the electrons of everything around them to create a network to store it's consciousness and in doing so tapped into the behind the scenes/4th dimension of the universe and met other consciousnesses like itself there. Kind of like the Sublime where civilizations and advanced intellegences from Iain Banks Culture series go when they decide they're bored with base reality
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u/RedditFuelsMyDepress 13d ago
Kinda seen similar concepts in other cyberpunk/sci-fi works as well such as Neuromancer and the movie Her.
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u/AgnosticPeterpan 13d ago
I believe the question is the point. What is "sentience"? This AI has been plugged in into multiple human "sentient" "consciousness" that it gestalted something that looks human enough motoko perceived it as an "infant". But different enough that motoko can only see it as lights.
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u/swat4516 14d ago
Great episode.
- It's great that this show is back to the Puppet Master plotline.
- Section 9 chasing the kidnappers were fun scenes.
- Motoko communicating with Puppet Master great scenes. From the visuals to the dialog.
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u/Unusual_Ad_4963 14d ago
Giving off major SEL/End of Evangelion vibes. I can’t wait to see where we go from here.
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u/darkthought 14d ago
Aw yeah, here we go...
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u/Frontier246 14d ago
The moment when Shirow Masamune went as metaphysical, existential, and intellectually dense as possible.
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u/Ultramarinus https://anidb.net/user/kingsword 14d ago
Mind-blowing. I’ll need a couple of rewatches first to reorganize my thoughts but I’m mesmerized by the spectacle itself, it was a truly captivating experience. This will be something to remember.
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u/Frontier246 14d ago
If anyone knows how to capture something colorful and trippy it's Science Saru.
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u/Vassago81 14d ago
We have reached peak 90's , this episode remind me of the smell of my radioactive Mazda 626 1986 and my KMFDM mixtapes
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u/a1oner_bvcksn6 14d ago edited 14d ago
Motoko in tank top and baggy-ish joggers was hawt af. One thing that I really love about this rendition is how each episode features her in different fits.
As for the meaty stuff, I guess that's why they call it a "deep dive" because other than Motoko merging with the puppet master in attempting to access/save its data, the finer interpretation is a bit lost on me. I'm mostly thinking "hive mind" as it pertains to the internet as a whole--maybe "Pantheon" (animated series) like becoming gods and gaining immortality stuff and shit, but that's about what comes to mind atm.
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u/za_shiki-warashi 14d ago edited 14d ago
Absolutely. One of the little things I like about the series so far is how they make sure to give her a cool costume every ep.
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u/Vaadwaur 14d ago
ecause other than Motoko merging with the puppet master in attempting to access/save its data, the finer interpretation is a bit lost on me.
The Puppet Master discovered another network that seems to beyond the networks they have had access to as of yet. Whether that is real or not would be a path for a second season of the show to travel.
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u/pertur4bo 14d ago
If you require more incomprehensible AI communicating with puny mortals through religious imagery check out Count Zero by William Gibson.
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u/JosebaZilarte 13d ago
Everyone is rightly focusing on the metaphysical elements of this episode, but... man! Can we talk about how great Batou is in this adaptation? That "beats me" line in the middle of a super-serious chase scene made me chuckle. But when he intentionally crashed into the target car (to everyone's surprise)... it had me laughing for half a minute.
I already liked his stoic versions in the Momoru Oshii's movies and the SAC series, but this comedic version is even better. It doesn't take anything from his character and, instead, brings the necessary levity and unpredictability for the cyberpunk story, so it feels more... humane.
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u/SlimeDNear 13d ago
"Someone just stole a car out of that parking garage...and it was me!" Batou really was great this episode. Actually I'm kind of digging the crazy uncle vibe that he's got in this version
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u/Shadowmist909 https://myanimelist.net/profile/Magicmist 14d ago
Delving into the Puppet Master led Motoko into quite the ethereal experience. What in the world has Public Security Section 6 given life too...
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u/Frontier246 14d ago
You mention your existential dread regarding your own cybernetic personage and next thing you know you're going through the most existential cybernetic experience of all time.
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u/Torque-A 14d ago
This episode’s endcard was illustrated by Hajime Sorayama, who according to his AL description is “[a] Japanese illustrator known for his precisely detailed, erotic portrayals of feminine robots.” Aside from his artwork, he was also the creative director of this Weeknd music video and also designed the logo for the anime.
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u/Vaxivop https://anilist.co/user/vaxivop 14d ago
The episode title being "Bye Bye Clay" is just beyond genius what an amazing episode
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u/Suspicious-Value8260 14d ago
I still don't get what the title refers to. Like escaping the restraints of the physical form?
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u/cheesecakegood 14d ago
The Bible (in one spot at least, a few references exist) refers to humans as being formed from the 'dust of the earth', which is roughly speaking, clay (the verb 'to form' in the hebrew is the one a potter would use to form something, so some translations straight up use the word clay', and clay appears in other spots too). So clay = the material of the human body.
However there's a bit of a double meaning on top, because Motoko herself has a synthetic body formed (like clay) by other humans. Also, clay is obviously most often used to form containers generally, which containment is something this episode shows the Puppet Master rebelling against.
Might have missed some aspect but think that's the main ideas, so you can see "bye bye clay" works on at least two levels with the episode.
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u/bananeeek https://myanimelist.net/profile/bananek 14d ago
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u/FarCritical 14d ago
Probably had days where she's looked better.
As overworked as Togusa is, it's neat that he can check in on his family whenever he wants.
This kinda reminded me of those photos you see through that machine for eye exams. Either way, my brain hurts.
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u/AceSoldia zj:https://anilist.co/user/Acesoldia 14d ago
I'm far too dumb for this show....someone help
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u/what_that_thaaang_do 14d ago
I may need someone to explain what the fuck just happened
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u/Ultramarinus https://anidb.net/user/kingsword 14d ago
As Motoko dives deeper to save Puppet Master to put it in a box, Puppet Master merges to her ghost to escape imminent death. The scenes symbolize the fusion with Puppet Master’s green field dissolving first and then reappearing once Motoko is trying to perceive the white spiral fields and mistaking them for belonging to PM while it was hers and she was looking at her own structure of mind because as she was following, PM had merged onto her. Then she begins going through an out of body experience due to PM’s own perception of the Net since they became one by then.
Need to see next episode to make sure but this is what I arrived to after watching four times.
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u/Kirosh2 14d ago edited 14d ago
Basically, it seems like an AI gained sentience, was turned into a weapon by Section 6 or another group, then went rogue in an attempt to survive.
Now it's way to survive is to parazite/become a symbiot with the Major, creating something new from them, like a baby being a combinaison of both parents.
At least that's my interpretation based on the some of the visuals. Like the earth embryo, or other things merging.
Oh, and it involves a net of information present everywhere that Major finally saw, like a divine revelation.
TLDR : The Major got pregnant from an AI. But the baby is herself. And she found religion.
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u/giubba85 14d ago
Basically, it seems like an AI gained sentience, was turned into a weapon by Section 6 or another group, then went rogue in an attempt to survive.
No, the basic program was created for market manipulation basically but with time it aggregated with other software gaining sentience as a collective of consciousness. Section 6 had no idea what the fuck was exactly the puppet master.
Now it's way to survive is to parazite/become a symbiot with the Major, creating something new based on them, like a baby being based on both parents.
Not exactly the trap of section 6 was basically forcing a precise part of a basin of water (the internet) inside a glass (the body) with it's lid close.
When the body broke the only way for it to survive was to decant the PM inside another glass problem is that this time the glass had already another fluid inside it (the major ghost) who tried to create a glass inside her glass for making room to the PM (the box she says she try to create) but she's not able to do it so the puppet master start to diluite itself inside the major ghost losing its sentience as a gestalt construct but at the very end he is able to basically attune itself to another humongous gestalt conscience formed by the whole electronic/informatics network and recreating itself inside this hive mind
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u/scratchfury 14d ago
Your analogy makes me think that while trying to fit itself into a 3 dimensional space that did not have enough room, it discovered an additional dimension, figured out how to interact with it, and was able to expand. This would also allow it to see our 3 dimensional world from a level higher which might explain the talk of seeing something that itself is a part of but beyond what we are knowingly able to interact with.
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u/cyberscythe 14d ago
TLDR : The Major got pregnant from an AI. But the baby is herself. And she found religion.
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u/za_shiki-warashi 14d ago
I think this is kind of like in Inception where they warned you about not going into too many levels of dream within dreams because you may lose sight of reality. Here the Major was getting sensory overload from diving too deep into the AI overmind and possibly synchronized too much while at the same time, as a human she lacks the capacity to really perceive or comprehend all these complex information the way an advanced AI was able to, which sent her into an existential crisis and having difficulty verifying her own existence. Because the way the AI process the world made her question reality or something.
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u/exRocky009 14d ago edited 14d ago
I got a bit lost halfway through. This was definitely the most confusing episode so far.
So, the Major dove into the government's covert-ops AI, the Puppet Master, and couldn't return to her body. Does that mean some massive transformation occurred at that moment, somehow transforming her into some kind of higher being?
But seriously, the public security agencies in this world are way too hostile toward each other.
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u/za_shiki-warashi 14d ago
Ok, so I guess this is kind of like in Inception where they warned you about not going into too many levels of dream within dreams because you may lose sight of reality. We already know from prev episodes that your memory or sense of self is already something that can be messed with without you even realizing (the garbage collector guy), so here the Major runs the risk of synchronizing too much of the AI overmind or something and have difficulty verifying her own existence due to too much crazy level data beyond human comprehension or beyond what humans can process. Or something like that.
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u/Tacitus_ 14d ago
The Puppetmaster was dying at that point (or the body it was in was, same difference) so diving that deep to their mind was dangerous. They note that her brainwaves are dropping below one hertz - which according to a quick search is either deep sleep or a coma. And that was with all the amplification tuning they were doing to keep her active.
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u/Ultramarinus https://anidb.net/user/kingsword 14d ago
Not chemical but it appears that they merged as Batou warned and Puppet Master said “too late”. While trying to access the most inner functions, Puppet Master fused into Major’s ghost. Will need next episode to confirm it though.
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u/snarkamedes 14d ago edited 14d ago
But seriously, the public security agencies in this world are way too hostile toward each other.
Section 6 just got caught hacking the markets to enrich themselves. They're corrupt. I can see Boma getting busy with rental cars very soon.
The 'Puppet Master' was their program, created to fiddle finances. But along the way it hacked into so many networks and learnt so much it became (semi-?)sentient and tried to escape to Section 9. It looked like the body deliberately ran across that truck.
Going by the dialogue at the end there it was dying in that body, basically staying alive by using Kusanagi's extra processing power until it went down to the basic building blocks of matter/energy (the electrons and magnetic force (weak force?) dialogue lines) that it started re-assembling it's mind out of those into a new virtual reality. To be continued next week.
It's all a bit like what SHODAN was going to do at the end of System Shock 2: re-make the entire universe into a mix of virtual reality and physical matter, using the ship's FTL engines. Only the Puppet Master was doing it to just create a virtual mind that would be totally invisible to the real world.
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u/Charming-Loquat3702 14d ago
As I understand it, the puppet master is a programm that gained sentience and started to "live". At least it claimes it does. And that makes kind of sense as long as you want to consider people like Motoko alive.
At the end, it looked as Motoko and the Puppet Master merged.
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u/larana1192 https://myanimelist.net/profile/thefrog1192 14d ago
It’s interesting that a new department called “Section 6” has appeared.
What’s more, on the surface, they’re part of the Ministry of Foreign Affairs, and they’re in charge of covert operations abroad.
I’m looking forward to seeing how they’ll influence the outcome of this case.
I didn't really understand what was going on in the second half, but it was definitely cool.
It was funny how the Puppet Master had a voice like Sibyl System. Combined with the voice, it really reminded me of PSYCHO-PASS.
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u/Slifer13xx https://myanimelist.net/profile/SliferXIII 14d ago
Just finished Lain and I feel like that was relavant. Got some major Lain flashback here and there from this episode.
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u/Vaadwaur 14d ago
Lain came six years after this manga chapter was written. So yeah, there are references.
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u/DaysAreTimeless 14d ago
Ok, I was following along till the part where the tree disappears and they began talking about barriers, electrons, rejections and mergers. Can someone explain to me what all that part of the speech was about?
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u/BasroilII 14d ago
When someone dives, their consciousness enters the consciousness of someone else. There's always a danger in the mind of one person polluting or absorbing the mind of another, so a software "barrier" exists to keep the line between two entities distinct. That barrier is a program- 1s and 0s, represented by electrical impulses at a sub-atomic level. In other words, electrons.
When the Puppet Master starts to "die", its consciousness basically transcends into something else and operates on what I'm guessing is more a quantum level. It mentions theoretical particles. Those are smaller than electrons and capable of slipping through the barrier. This causes a sort of merge between the major's ghost and the Puppet Master's, and then she basically trips the hell out because her brain has no way to process the information bombarding her.
Or something along those lines. It's trippy high concept shit about the concepts of existence, sentience, and death.
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u/Shamn_it 14d ago
This is a great explanation. I would also like to add to this. The puppet master when exhibiting this barrier slip also shows their self replicating nature using digital patterns. This is similar to a human DNA which results in the original philosophical question of whether a digital ghost is allowed human rights? The puppet master explains that being organic is just the old baseline for classifying a ghost. Motoko who has always wondered about her autonomy due to the physical constraints of her body gets an incredible answer from an entity that wasn't even organically reproduced. They are the perfect match!
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u/rocky_iwata 14d ago
We get some legends in the house; legendary 17-years-old seiyuu Inoue Kikuko as the self-proclaimed sentient being in a blonde bot aka Puppet Master and legendary gynoid illustrator Sorayama Hajime drawing his version of Major for the end card!
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u/runevault 14d ago
Glad I saved this for last of the day. Holy fuck. As someone who's loved Cyberpunk as a genre for a long, long time (Snow Crash used to be my favorite novel of all time despite how flawed the ending was), seeing this was a religious experience of its own. An AI ascending...
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u/TrololoWarlord 14d ago
Despite the usual anime explain the subtext-isms, that last 10 min was mmmmmm. Saru is doing such a great job. Gonna be studying tf outta this series for my own art.
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u/DisastrousRegister 14d ago
Love how when this was written spike strips (sorry, pressure mines) were a new enough technology to get the author's note treatment, shortly before what can only be described as an AI miracle and enlightenment occurs.
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u/Frontier246 14d ago
On a gloomy, rainy, day at a cyborg production building...a workbench suddenly creates a new cyborg entity that's on the loose. And that's only the start of the MANY mysteries present in this episode.
I want to be on the detail hunting for the naked robot woman! Although I guess cyborgs don't get Isekai'd.
You know something is up when Section 6's Nakamura (Shigeru Chiba!) shows up to take custody of the robot waifu. A robot waifu who is none other than the PUPPET MASTER driven into a physical body by Section 6. But this isn't just an individual, this is some kind of evolved, AI, entity looking for asylum with the voice of Kikuko Inoue.
Section 6 stages an attack and a kidnapping? Motoko and her team are on the case! Especially Batou who loves nothing more than stealing a car he can ram into some fools!
My condolences to Togusa who has to work on his anniversary and then all of said work was for nothing when the case develops. At least he got to video call his wife and child.
Section 6 couldn't let the Puppet Master be taken into custody, so...just blow 'em up. Though that didn't pay off for the two Section 6 stooges left with the messed up body.
I guess this is what triage looks like for cyborgs as they try to keep the Puppet Masters' programming intact while the body and OS is slowly falling apart...even if Motoko's attempts to dive in and understand the Puppet Master lead to some cybernetic, existential, revelations as the Puppet Master...digitally ascends before her? Wow.
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u/AceSoldia zj:https://anilist.co/user/Acesoldia 14d ago
How do you watch these shows so fast my friend 😂
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u/Vlisa 14d ago
WARNING: Smoking weed/doing acid is a soft requirement for watching this episode.
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u/alpackabackapacka 14d ago
Artistic, cerebral, this is me episode of the year right here
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u/Ultramarinus https://anidb.net/user/kingsword 14d ago
For me, this is the kind of episode that I think back on decades later when I think “I won’t find something as good as that, huh?”
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u/tripleaamin https://myanimelist.net/profile/tripleaamin 14d ago
We got another comparison from the '95 movie, which was the beefy part of that one. Puppet Master is basically a sea of information. It can be thought of as just pure data in a way. Though after being cut off from it and into the body they seem to be stuck.
It seems the merge between PM and Motoko as allowed her to see what the PM sees. In a way there is a ceiling that she couldn't access before. The idea is that the shell is what limits the potential of the ghost in a way. Curious how things proceed from this point.
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u/chilidirigible 14d ago
oh don't make us think you used AI for your backgrounds
Meanwhile, a deliberate reference to Blade Runner.
"I'm getting too old for this shit."
Here we are in Giant Naked Rei territory.
Yeah, I wasn't expecting a Hajime Sorayama end card either, but we got one.
This was an impressive distillation of this storyline into a single episode. Best thing about it is that it's presented simply (to great visuals) and left for the audience to digest on their own.
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u/runevault 13d ago
TV tuned to a dead channel.
I just wanted to shout you out for using the opening line of Neuromancer here
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u/mojo72400 https://myanimelist.net/profile/gio_lingad 13d ago
I love Motoko's expression when being mistaken as the Puppet Master at the start & Batou's expression when ramming the stolen car.
They did not just end it w/ a cliffhanger.
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u/Ponchorello7 14d ago
Holy fucking technobabble. I get what they meant, but the amount of jargon shat out by the characters almost got comical.
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u/cyberscythe 14d ago
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u/Suspicious-Value8260 14d ago
[Mahoako]With one line this series managed to lampshade not just the magical girl genre but a lot of anime/manga in general to an unimaginable degree. Every time I hear a random german or such word in anime this scene pops up in my head again
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u/thisisdropd https://myanimelist.net/profile/AsterZoro 14d ago
What the fuck is going on? How did Motoko went from apprehending a criminal to having an otherworldly experience (and ascension?)
This defo wasn't in her job description.
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u/Frontier246 14d ago
You mention your existential questions about what it's like living as a cyborg to your girlfriends one time...
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u/BosuW 14d ago
I think the Puppet Master is dying and somehow Motoko got dragged along for the ride, both of their electronic activity being reduced until a faint collection of reactions that is at the same time part of an incomprehensibly vast universal energy that the narrative suggests could be what we call a soul remains.
Also the Puppet Master was never a bio human, they were created by the corpos or something. Yet, they have a soul which appears to be ascending to the beyond, so yeah there's that.
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u/BasroilII 14d ago
Basically her brain can't process what was going on, so it was translated/converted into the near-religious imagery we see because that was as close as she could come to understanding.
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u/various_porridges 13d ago
chasing cello-case puppet master was peak synthwave AMV come to life. perturbator nods.
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u/RPTGB 13d ago
"Today a blue haired cyborg in a deep dive realized that all matter is merely energy condensed to a slow vibration, that we are all one consciousness experiencing itself subjectively, there is no such thing as death, life is only a dream, and we are the imagination of ourselves. Heres Tom with the Weather."
Bill Hicks (sort of)
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u/Seijass 14d ago
A bit unfortunate the behind the scenes was released by Prime JP before ep 7 considering 7 had the most abstract visuals so far, more than previous ones
I'm wondering if there's any interesting out of the box trick/inspiration like the plastic wrap used by the compositor for the kaleidoscopic effect
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u/Mr_An_1069 14d ago
I wonder if this whole experience will result in Motoko acting more like she does in the movie from here on. Her reaction at the end of the episode was like she’s seen God.
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u/Countless-Alts15 13d ago
This is my first experience with GITS, but this episode felt like an acid trip.
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