Both new Seattle RH OFs (Ward and Refsnyder) lost ~100 points of wRC+ as soon as they joined the Mariners

[u/Bermut-Nundaloy]

In a year where everything has gone wrong for Seattle (worst pitching staff in the second half, Raleigh + Donovan + Crawford + Emerson + Raley + Miller playing through injury), this stands out as exceptionally cursed.

Teams stack their lefties to face Seattle, and the RH OFs the Mariners brought in to deal with this both lost 100 points of wRC+ the moment they joined the Mariners. That's... that's all the wRC+ there is. That's all 100 points.

Not sure what's more impressive, Ward getting traded during a good year and turning into a pumpkin on literally day 1, or Refsnyder faceplanting so hard he retired midseason.

[u/hawkfan78]

The only thing that hasn't gone wrong this year is Randy playing out of his mind, and that could be considered going wrong because he's playing himself into a huge FA contract that the Mariners will most certainly not shell out the cash for.

[u/slicepaperwrists_ → u/hawkfan78]

Cole Young has been a delight this season--really impressive fielder and a promising young hitter, improved markedly on both sides of the ball. excited to see him next season and beyond

[u/The_Throwback_King → u/slicepaperwrists_]

I will say, Logan Gilbert has mostly avoided the absolute carnage that has been dealt to our rotation.

Not stellar this year but he’s the only SP where I can see his name and not have to worry about meltdowns.

[u/The_Throwback_King → u/[deleted]]

What are you talking about?

Logan Gilbert has the 12th-best ERA, 3rd-best WHIP, and 15th-best SO/9 of any active starter with his mileage

Dude’s one of the best pitchers in the league, straight up

[u/The_Throwback_King → u/[deleted]]

Having a “1” is certainly a good way to go deep.

However, having a balanced roster, both on offense and from the mound can also provide a pathway to a run

2025 showed that we could go deep with it, while still leaving us with an assignment to learn from how we fell short, and strive to be better.

Of the veteran voices, only he and Randy, in my opinion, have followed through on that commitment to excellence

[u/rewardingsnark → u/The_Throwback_King]

Agree that he was been one the better players, just saying not good enough and shouldn't be paid like a #1 yet.

[u/tlsrandy → u/slicepaperwrists_]

Don’t forget canzone! What a breath of fresh air Dom has been.

[u/unpuzzling → u/slicepaperwrists_]

I was at his debut game last season and I remember how exciting it was for you all. He does seem like a future super star that plays well at T Mobile.

[u/hawkfan78 → u/slicepaperwrists_]

For sure. I wish he could have had a few more off-days, feels like they overused him due to injuries and the lack of infield depth. Look forward to his future.

[u/GingerDweeb27 → u/hawkfan78]

Honestly with how bad right handed hitters tend to do in Seattle, Randy will probably hit Judge levels of offense on another team. It’ll be like Goku taking off his weights

[u/No-Conversation3860 → u/GingerDweeb27]

After last night, I feel like he might be interested hitting at Fenway more often lol. If he doesn’t sign with us (he won’t) I hope he goes back to the Rays personally.

[u/JazzlikeStaff8740 → u/No-Conversation3860]

I doubt they will fork up the cash

[u/TectonicImprov → u/No-Conversation3860]

please no

[u/Grade-AMasterpiece → u/No-Conversation3860]

I hope so too cuz we need better bats in the outfield.

[u/Bootleschloogen → u/GingerDweeb27]

Randy has been training under 100 times Earth's gravity

[u/LlamasPajamas206 → u/hawkfan78]

I don’t really think there was a scenario where the Ms keep Randy anyways. Like you said he’s playing himself into a big contract that we almost certainly aren’t shelling out for but if he was only a solid hitter I doubt the Ms would want to pay FA rates for a 32 year old near his decline, with only a solid bat and poor fielding, and if he was terrible they probably wouldn’t want him back for anything but a minimal prove it deal (which few hitters are going to take in Seattle).

Frankly the one benefit to his big year is that if the QO system stays intact we’re essentially getting a late 1st round pick/early 2nd round pick out of him signing a big deal elsewhere.

[u/woolseydrew]

The thought is that they can’t hit at T-Mobile Park, but then they just suck everywhere. Clearly a team hitting philosophy problem.

[u/evanieCK → u/woolseydrew]

Refsnyder did have pretty gnarly home road splits when I checked in a while ago, but he was still bad on the road and just unplayable at home.

[u/atowelguy → u/woolseydrew]

wRC+ is also park adjusted, right?

[u/alxndrblack → u/woolseydrew]

Maybe they should change the philosophy

My suggestion, as something of a hitting coach, would be to hit

[u/kansashotwings → u/alxndrblack]

But hit what, sir?

[u/No-Conversation3860 → u/kansashotwings]

Home runs baby!!!

[u/alxndrblack → u/kansashotwings]

Bro I'm a Jays and Tigers fan fuck if I know

[u/Bermut-Nundaloy → u/woolseydrew]

There is no hitting philosophy so bad that it can turn Taylor Ward into a .100 hitter the second he walks into the clubhouse. That's just good old fashioned horrible luck baby

[u/vanillaninja16 → u/Bermut-Nundaloy]

My dude it has been close to 10 years of Mariners hitters going up to the plate and swinging out of their shoes to hit HR’s and nothing else.

There is definitely a hitting philosophy problem.

[u/immagonnafinnahella → u/vanillaninja16]

There is, but with ward specifically that’s not the problem

[u/Bermut-Nundaloy → u/vanillaninja16]

Sure, although that is what the park forces because it suppresses doubles and triples.

But I highly doubt Taylor Ward walked into the clubhouse, and then Edgar said "hey bro FYI we only hit home runs here" and then Ward said "sure let me completely change my whole approach today" and then Ward suddenly sucked but he doesn't care and he didn't want to change back. Like that's not how coaching works, there's a lot of randomness and / or injury here

[u/Gleb_Twankenfrister → u/Bermut-Nundaloy]

from the outside looking in, i would wager coaching turnover needs to happen lol. don’t know if yall have had the same hitting coach over the years or there has been already but something has to give. i can’t remember the last time you guys had someone break out offensively that wasn’t a prospect that came up w org

[u/immagonnafinnahella → u/Gleb_Twankenfrister]

We basically have a new hitting coach every year, at this point they need to clean house completely. They never will though, they still make money anyway and that’s all they care about

[u/Some_Caregiver9138 → u/vanillaninja16]

From 2016 to 2026, the Mariners have a wRC+ of 103, which is essentially tied for 5th through 10th place in baseball.

[u/Raisinbrahms28 → u/vanillaninja16]

Seattle fans are so fucking whipped by this team that they’ll just chalk it up to bad luck and curses every year instead of demand the team get better or call for a new manager/GM. People do the wave at home games down 5 runs for fuck’s sake.

The Mariners have a fan problem as much as they have a management problem.

[u/Traditional_Half842 → u/woolseydrew]

I imagine there is a mental/rhythm aspect of it as well. You struggle for a bit at home and then you're making adjustments and uncomfortable anywhere you play (home or away), and it can spiral from there.

[u/LlamasPajamas206]

Mariner

[u/Potential_Bad_6133 → u/LlamasPajamas206]

yeah the wrc+ drop is pretty wild

[u/gplatt_24]

Refsnyder
https://giphy.com/gifs/VNTMx3LkpG2anXpwbr

[u/PizzaDog425]

[u/finmoore3]

It’s the Mariners uniform, and marine layer. It’s cursed

[u/FrostWPG]

https://giphy.com/gifs/AEjdUrEVLtXO4lNMrx

[u/Stone_0cean → u/FrostWPG]

“Mariner”

[u/ApprehensiveArm1493]

Is that not good?

[u/ms_barkie]

When 100 points is league average, losing 100 points is… Mariner

[u/broccoleet]

Could it be mental? Like being acquired / traded for , to do one specific thing, puts more pressure on the player to do that thing. So they start over thinking their approach.

They’re both kinda old too.

But especially Ward had some warning signs, namely that he was never an on base guy before this season. Ref was just over the hill imo.

[u/Bermut-Nundaloy → u/broccoleet]

For Refsnyder he had two bum knees and just couldn't hit any more, so the question is really just about whether the Seattle medical team evaluated his physical correctly more than anything else. Ward is crazy though haha, that's just Mariners baseball

[u/Noy_Telinu → u/broccoleet]

It has been a thing for literally 25 years. Even Adrian Beltre struggled there.

[u/GravyNeck]

If you don't like that you don't like Mariners Baseball

[u/mahrinazz]

The curse claims its newest victim.

Taylor Ward is losing millions of dollars in future earnings as this goes on. I bet he was devastated to be traded to Seattle.

[u/rewardingsnark]

Once you are a member of the shittiest team in history you become shit. That's the rule, also why everyone plays for them sucks.

[u/Ok-Sea9612]

Ward had already been falling off from his early season. And his early season wasn't actually good aside from walking a ton.

[u/Raisinbrahms28]

Right handed bats come to Seattle and die. It is known.

[u/letdown105]

Is T-mobile/safeco built on cursed land?

[u/ClutchCity9495]

Why don't they move in the fences in Seattle already? It seems long overdue.

[u/Bermut-Nundaloy → u/ClutchCity9495]

They did. It doesn't really help; they already have one of the smallest outfields in baseball. Moving in the fences more would add a few home runs but subtract triples, doubles, and singles from outfielders having less ground to cover. 

An actual ballpark fix would take figuring out what increases strikeouts by 20% in the stadium (batter's eye? wind?) and fixing that, or adding weird outfield features like ivy walls or strange angles to increase triples.

[u/No_Buy2554 → u/Bermut-Nundaloy]

I've always heard the marine layer was the problem. It makes fly balls die, and hitters feel like they have to swing harder if they're going for the fences (hence the higher K rate) or adjust the approach t liners instead.

[u/RSM34 → u/ClutchCity9495]

They did around 2013. It helps keep the ball park close to league average for home runs hit but it’s taken away all other type of hits since there less ground for outfielders to cover.

[u/Gabelbram]

Nice