r/basque • u/namitynamenamey • 1d ago
Question about basque independence in spain
As a latinoamerican living in spain, I don't have much of an opinion in favor or against an independence process in and of itself. Sometimes it's the best a country can do to escape an abusive situation, other times it's shoting oneself in the foot. My question is a bit more strategic than ideological: What is the plan for existence within or outside the EU? What's the plan when it comes to citizenship or nationality of people who are not part of the basque nation, but were born in the territory anyways?
I understand political parties have their own positions, but I'm curious on what the people on foot think about these things, or if it's something people don't really muse about very much.
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u/StonedBasque 1d ago
Tan fácil como buscar en Google: Plan para la independencia
To the rest people posting, it's so funny to see so many "basque" people forgetting about Plan Ibarretxe or Gure Esku Dago.
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u/namitynamenamey 1d ago
Tengo curiosidad de saber que piensa la gente de a pie que podría pasar.
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u/StonedBasque 1d ago
Todos los independentistas deseamos la misma vía que realizaron los escoceses en 2014.
Además, hace 20 años ya hubo un intento serio de asumir todas las competencias dentro del estatuto. Esto fue llamado El Plan Ibarretxe.
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u/MaestroArmonia 1d ago
Teniendo en cuenta que la edad media de los independentistas es de mas de 50 años y que mas de un cuarto de los nuevos nacidos son directamente extranjeros, de que tipo de independencia hablamos?
Digo, si hubiera una nacion vasca como tal, esta condenada a la desaparicion por simple presion demografica.
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u/CowLongjumping7098 1d ago
Ya ocurrió antes, con cientos de miles de inmigrantes llegados de toda España. Sus nietos ahora hablan euskera y votan a partidos independentistas. Con los nuevos inmigrantes va a ocurrir lo mismo, pero más rápido. En cuanto a la independencia, es fácil, mientras el estado español nos deje en paz, la gente no la va a querer. Cuando en España gobierna el PSOE, nos dejan en paz. Cuando gobierna la derecha, en cambio, tienen la costumbre de meterse en nuestros asuntos y entonces empiezan los problemas. Si Vox llega al gobierno, puede haber un lío serio.
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u/Puzzleheaded_Dig3730 1d ago
Los nuevos inmigrantes van a votar nuevos partidos una vez sean numerosos como está pasando en otros países porque esos partidos serán los que den voz "a su gente".
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u/CowLongjumping7098 1d ago
¿Al partido turko en alemania? ¿Al jamaicano o al indio en UK? ¿Al latino en EEUU? ¿Al argelino en Francia?
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u/MaestroArmonia 1d ago
Hay que ser de Bilbao lo minimo para pensar asi. Pero me hace gracia pensar en un pequeño Iker contando las abluciones en vasco, mientras su padre dice Aupa! Bismillah.
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u/CowLongjumping7098 1d ago
Hoy en día ya es normal ver a chicas con el hijab hablando en euskera con las compañeras en los pasillos de institutos y universidades. Y tal y como van las cosas, van a acabar relacionando la identidad vasca con la tolerancia, y la española con el racismo y la islamofobia.
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u/MaestroArmonia 1d ago
Que tierno. Ese es el futuro de la sociedad vasca.
¿Se van preparando ya para cuando se imponga el Islam, como pasa en todo territorio donde entro el hijab, desde Senegal a Indonesia, o todavia no?
Yo iria aprendiendo algo de arabe, los pilares del Islam, un par de cientos de shuras, a hacer abluciones, cositas como inshala, bismillah y detalles asi. Y se de lo que hablo.
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u/GullibleWorld1817 1d ago
Same as Catalonian nationalists movements; force the government to get more money, then shut up for a while. Rinse and repeat
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u/jotakajk 1d ago
Almost noone actually believes independence is gonna happen within their lifetimes. It is more of a romantic aspiration than an actual plan
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u/Euskar 1d ago
Well, in the 80s none believed the Soviet Union could dissappear, the Berlin's wall would fall, Yugoslavia would dissappear...
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u/jotakajk 1d ago
Yeah, in the 80s there was a lot of people who believed in an independent Euskal Herria too. Now they give support to the Spanish government
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u/Euskar 1d ago
No really, they don't want to lose what they already have, but if they can they're going to ask for more. And if the circumstances change, these people will also change.
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u/jotakajk 1d ago
When are they asking for more? Before or after giving more support for the GAL party. Are they gonna cogovern the CAV as well?
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u/Euskar 1d ago
When both nationalist parties realize they need the other one to have a Basque society, and ask for changes, the World Cup has made them to fear. If they're able to work together, there's an option, but maybe, the initiative needs to come from the society, without the help of the parties. The best example is Catalonia, it was the impulse of the society what moved the process but after being in the hands of the parties...
Cogovern? Maybe in 30 years, nowadays it's impossible: no Spaniard government for the next 20 years, an split of the party and their disappearance in the CAV, even lose the Catalan and Navarrese government. They would continue doing what they've been doing all these years, promise a lot but do nothing
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u/Only-Being1327 1d ago
El problema es que gracias al concierto vasco, los impuestos recaudados en esta comunidad autónoma se gestionan y redistribuyen desde el propio gobierno vasco, a esto se le suma una cantidad ingente de millones de euros desde el gobierno central, entonces, es como irse de vacaciones con el dinero de tu vecino
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u/Professional_Bag_881 1d ago
well, I hate nationalisms, and specially spanish nationalism, and I don't see any differences between all of them, it is just people wanting to be a sheep so they only have to follow other people's plans. But if you ask me as a basque if I have plans for a hipotetical independence, the answer is yes, of course I do, (it is a pretty long list by the way). I have to say that I would love to see spain dismembered. and the first thing in my list is to open a bottle of champaigne, beer or whatever I can find and celebrate with my family and friends. Best party ever.
But please note that I hate, and I really do hate spanish institutions, but that does not mean that I hate spanish people, quite the oposite.
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u/Peketu 1d ago
You hate Spanish institutions. What does that even means?
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u/Professional_Bag_881 1d ago
I just asked AI for you, here you have a short summary:
- Cortes Generales (The Cortes Generales): The bicameral parliament, comprising the Congress of Deputies (Congreso de los Diputados) and the Senate (Senado).
- Government of Spain (Gobierno de España): The executive branch, led by the President of the Government (Presidente del Gobierno) and the Council of Ministers.
- Judiciary Power (Poder Judicial): The system of courts and judges, headed by the General Council of the Judiciary (Consejo General del Poder Judicial).
- Constitutional Court (Tribunal Constitucional): The body that ensures compliance with the Spanish Constitution.
- The Crown (La Corona): The Head of State, currently held by King Felipe VI.
- Council of State (Consejo de Estado): The supreme consultative organ of the government.
- Court of Auditors (Tribunal de Cuentas): The supreme body responsible for auditing the economic and financial management of the public sector.
my reasons are mine, and are not relevant for this discussion. I understand that I am free to dislike them under the eyes of the law and the spanish constitution, ain't I?
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u/Peketu 1d ago
Of course, I just don't see the logic but you are free to hate the sun, the brown color or any other concept or material being in the universe.
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u/Professional_Bag_881 1d ago
Maybe 'hate' is the wrong word, it would require some more effort from my side, let's say dislike, contempt, disregard, scorn... And I avoid them whenever I can, as I say my reasons are mine and not to be published here, but are based on real personal experience. I also understand that many people think the same or even worse even considering themselves Spanish, I don't see the lack of logic here
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u/Disastrous_Double_61 1d ago
Odia los nacionalismos, pero él no es nacionalista (que va)
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u/Professional_Bag_881 1d ago
No, no soy nacionalista, y oiga, pruebe usted también, que del nacionalismo también se sale, igual que de las religiones judeocristianas, de la adoración al capitalismo, al futbol, al trabajo y muchos otros vicios limitantes intelectuales.
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u/Raisin6436 1d ago
There is no plan. Basque Country is fully integrated in the EU through Spain. Nobody is thinking in independence because it doesnt make sense now.
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u/Puzzleheaded_Dig3730 1d ago
El independentismo es una estafa para soñadores. No tiene lógica alguna que una provincia que recibe mucho del país y que está en una situación favorable respecto a otras comunidades se independice.
Yo he nacido en el país vasco y estoy totalmente en contra, además me parece una idea insolidaria.
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u/meltba 1d ago
Si somos un lastre dejennos votar. Todos contentos.
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u/Puzzleheaded_Dig3730 1d ago
En absoluto he dicho que la comunidad sea un lastre, en todo caso más lastre sería Cáceres y a nadie se le ocurre darles la independencia.
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u/meltba 1d ago
Es lo que has dicho aquí:
No tiene lógica alguna que una provincia que recibe mucho del país y que está en una situación favorable respecto a otras comunidades se independice.
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u/Puzzleheaded_Dig3730 1d ago
Pero no digo eso,ser un lastre significa que no es rentable en absoluto. El país vasco tiene un emplazamiento geográfico que tiene mucho valor ya que es frontera con Francia.
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u/bulliralamar 1d ago
Basque independence is not within the short term plans of any political party, so none of that has been defined in detail. However, we can assume some things.
First is that every Spanish citizen who lives in the Basque Country would become a Basque citizen. Maybe also people from the French Basque Country who request it. There is no objective way to define who belongs to the Basque nation in the first place, so that can't be a basis for citizenship.
As for EU membership, initially the Basque Country could not be part of the EU and would need the agreement of all EU members (including Spain) to join. Whether it gets that permission or not would depend on how it became independent in the first place, among other things.