r/europe • u/tree_boom United Kingdom • 10h ago
News High-level talks begin for Ireland to join British-led naval mission designed to counter Russia
https://www.thejournal.ie/joint-expeditionary-forces-ireland-joining-jef-plus-7147258-Sep2026/27
u/Gentle_Snail 7h ago
Ireland should honestly join JEF. I know they’re neutral but both Finland and Sweden joined back when they were still neutral.
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u/tree_boom United Kingdom 7h ago
Different manifestations of neutrality though innit. I think Ireland as a fully-fledged member is likely a political impossibility for the foreseeable future.
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u/spacemansanjay 4h ago
That is part of the Irish national maritime strategy. Or at least joining JEF+.
The Department of Defence will move quickly to open discussions with the member states of JEF with the aim of gaining access for the Defence Forces to the JEF+ concept. This will be with a view to participating in exercises, sharing best practice, building relationships and gaining observer status on the activities of this initiative.
https://assets.gov.ie/static/documents/e7b9a87c/DoD_NMSS_Final_1.pdf (pg 28)
https://www.thejournal.ie/joint-expeditionary-forces-ireland-joining-jef-plus-7147258-Sep2026/
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u/whowhatwherenow Ireland 5h ago
We’re not really a neutral country though. Not in the Swiss or Austrian sense. There’s a government policy of being non militarily aligned which has been in place for pretty much since the foundation of the state. But nowhere in our constitution does it even mention neutrality.
Which means in theory as it’s not enshrined in the constitution any government of ours could change that policy without putting it to a public vote. It would of course be political suicide for whomever would do it because a large share of the population are of the mindset of “sure who would invade is anyway”
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u/Designer-Station-308 6h ago
But they’re both in NATO now… that’s not a good example to follow
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u/Gentle_Snail 5h ago
They’re in NATO now - they were in JEF for a long time before they applied to join NATO.
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u/Designer-Station-308 5h ago
Less than a decade later is not a long time.
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u/Gentle_Snail 5h ago
It is in the sense that JEF had absolutely nothing to do with them joining NATO.
They joined NATO long after JEF because Russia invaded Ukraine and suddenly having Russia as a regional presence was a lot less comfortable.
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u/WileyCoyote7 3h ago
“Military sources have said that Ireland’s naval capabilities are so limited that it will be essentially a watching brief, but there will also be a capability-building opportunity and information and intelligence sharing.”
Had to look it up, because I was surprised Ireland had any Navy. Eight ships total, only six of which are offshore capable: 4 Samuel Beckett-class , 2 Roisin-class.
Can Ireland scale-up to a larger fleet in the near future to take on a proportional share of the patrols?
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u/tree_boom United Kingdom 3h ago
If they want to fund that then yeah sure. Not really any indication that they will though, apart from some vague rumours that they might look at more serious warships.
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u/Darkone539 8h ago
The key is that Ireland will piggyback on the JEF’s maritime security apparatus and use it to respond to hybrid threats such as drone incursions.
The meetings are examining how Ireland can benefit practically – in other words, what the other nations can give to the Irish.
Military sources have said that Ireland’s naval capabilities are so limited that it will be essentially a watching brief, but there will also be a capability-building opportunity and information and intelligence sharing.
Ireland really need to invest in their military if they want to take part in these things.
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u/Sportyskater699 8h ago
They have equipment to assist but not to engage with a hostile power.
They have ships which are specialised for the Atlantic Ocean which can’t be said for all ships in the jef.
Give it 2 years Ireland will be in a better place
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u/Bar50cal Éire (Ireland)🇮🇪🇪🇺 6h ago edited 5h ago
I think most people don't know the Atlantic coast off Ireland is one of the most brutal and dangerous stretches of sea globally only surpassed by the Bering sea and Drake passage of the Antarctic.
Its the most dangerous non polar sea hence it has no major ports even though its directly facing North America and all major Irish ports are not on the Atlantic coast.
Given there small size some serious engineering went into the Beckett class by British ship yards so they can't be rolled over by massive waves.
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u/Odd-Bid-9990 3h ago
It’s good that their ships can sea keep well, but when their main armament is only a 76mm gun I don’t know if they can offer much.
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u/MulanMcNugget United Kingdom 2h ago
TBF the only threats it could realistically face are Subs and hybrid war stuff from Russia's black fleet.
If they had some type 23 ships and more anti sub aircraft, it would be more than enough protected from Russia.
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8h ago edited 8h ago
[deleted]
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u/tree_boom United Kingdom 8h ago
Companies based in the Netherlands exported more than double the value of goods to Russia in 2025 compared to Irish ones. Let's not throw stones.
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u/ItsTyrrellsAlt 8h ago
What point are you making here? There is scarcely a country in Europe that is not buying and selling from Russia. It's not like there is a totally united front aside from the Alumina that gets exported from Ireland.
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u/ThreeTreesForTheePls Ireland 8h ago
Two distinctions here:
It is alumina, not aluminium. This shows the entry level of anger we’re sitting at here.
“Ireland” did not ship anything. A private company that operates in Ireland did.
And the weird part is that since the investigation from our government was publicly spoken about, I’ve been emailing different elected officials almost every day to ensure they don’t just sweep this under the rug, because it is fucking disgusting.
So I am not here to defend the Irish government, or the private sales of a vital war material to an invading force. I despise them, it is vile, the EU should use whatever power it has to give the finger to our sitting government to ensure this line of trade is closed, because we clearly value voter bases more than we do an accurate investigation that would lead to closing the plant or having it move elsewhere.
But my point is simple, if you’re going to pretend to be outraged about something, enough to have the figures you likely googled, get your facts straight before you start bringing up the issue.
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u/Matthius81 1h ago
Hi Brit here. Seeing as UK is already committed to defending Irelands air and sea, does it really make sense for Ireland to pay a fortune to replicate front lines abilities? Does Ireland need a type 26 frigate, when a more valuable contribution could be logistics support. The Royal Navy is struggling to find fleet tankers and and solid support ships, medical ships and transport. If Ireland were to invest in logistic support ships it would be able to say it’s contributing significantly to international naval missions, at a fraction of the costs, without enraging those who oppose Ireland arming a military.
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u/tree_boom United Kingdom 1h ago
Seems like a reasonable approach to me indeed, but ultimately it is of course a decision for Ireland.
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u/No_Priors Europe 6h ago
The same people who complain about Irish neutrality are on here now complaining about this. Makes me think they're just bigots.
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u/Heypisshands 2h ago
What with, 3 planks of wood and 2 barrels.
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u/tree_boom United Kingdom 2h ago
You are the 43rd person to make that joke, and it wasn't funny the other times either I'm afraid.
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u/Particular_Pickle465 United Kingdom 8h ago
And Ireland will contribute one fishing boat to this naval mission.
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u/BilboShaggins429 4h ago
Ppl laugh but when Russian ships were found in Irish waters the fishermen had to get them to leave. Don't get me wrong, I'm Irish and I want us to get rid of this neutrality bs we never fully committed to anyways.
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u/wellwellwellwellll Northern Ireland 7h ago
British will deal with them on the sea and in the air
Irish will deal with them if they land and go to the pub or drive a car
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u/WiseBelt8935 England 5h ago
Will Southern Ireland be providing the catering or something? Surely you need a navy to partake in a naval mission.
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u/JuiceTheMoose05 Ireland 5h ago
What’s Southern Ireland?
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u/WiseBelt8935 England 5h ago
The part of Ireland that isn't northern Ireland.
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u/JuiceTheMoose05 Ireland 5h ago
You mean the country known colloquially and constitutionally as Ireland in the English language? The most northerly point of the country of Ireland lies further north than the most northerly point of Northern Ireland. Why, therefore, would you call Ireland “Southern Ireland”?
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u/SpunkThrust_Vegan 5h ago
Tbf thats what locals called it when I lived in NI
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u/Hymany 3h ago
They would have just called it the south not Southern Ireland. Only Brits salty about Ireland breaking away from the UK over a hundred years ago call Ireland Southern Ireland.
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u/SpunkThrust_Vegan 3h ago
The locals said it. They were Irish. I never forced them to say that, thats just how they referred to it
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u/JuiceTheMoose05 Ireland 4h ago
Choosing to ignore a state’s legally recognised name is itself a political statement, which is the point. Locals in NI say “the South” all the time and nobody blinks; that’s ordinary shorthand. “Southern Ireland” is a different thing, a defunct term form the 1920’s, and in NI a fairly good indicator of which community you’re from.
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u/WiseBelt8935 England 5h ago
If there is a Northern Ireland then the other must, in turn be called Southern Ireland. We don’t want to get them confused.
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u/JuiceTheMoose05 Ireland 5h ago edited 5h ago
If there is a northern part of the landmass of the island of Ireland then there must necessarily be a southern part of the same island. It does not follow, however, that a state called “Northern Ireland” must neighbour a state called “Southern Ireland.” Proper nouns do not decompose that way, the Northern Territory has no Southern Territory, and North Macedonia no South Macedonia. Northern Ireland occupies the island’s north-east, but the state to its south is not called “Southern Ireland”. Its name, de jure and de facto, is Ireland.
As for confusion, one is called Northern Ireland and the other is called Ireland. Those are different names.
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u/JimJonesdrinkkoolaid 1h ago
Don't you have to have some kind of Navy to be able to participate? I mean the UK's is not is a great spot at the moment. Ireland on the other hand, basically doesn't have one at all. Hence why they have to pay the British for security.
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u/HorizonBC 7h ago edited 5h ago
Ireland should start by ending the export of Alumina to Russia. Seems ironic to talk about countering Russia at sea whilst exporting a raw material crucial in missiles and ship building.
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u/No_Priors Europe 6h ago
Stop exporting unsanctioned materials? You first.
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u/HorizonBC 5h ago edited 4h ago
Care to find an example that’s used in the production of missiles hitting Ukraine?
Aluminium is sanctioned, so why not a critical raw material?
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u/No_Priors Europe 5h ago edited 5h ago
Alumina isn't used in missiles.
Now I've got your attention why don't you tell me where you're from so I can look at your exports to Russia. Fair is fair.
And btw, the Irish state doesn't export alumina to Russia, that would be a private company.
Edit: And alumina isn't a proper noun, you don't need to award it a capital "A".
Edit 2: When you add something use "Edit", you don't want to look deceitful do you?
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u/HorizonBC 5h ago edited 4h ago
Alumina is a raw material used in the production of aluminium, a portion of Russia’s supply for aluminium production comes from Ireland.
Alumina pulled out the soil of Ireland, it’s no different. A Russian owned plant operating there that’s also polluting the environment.
I didn’t think this would be something people here would be against 🤷
I removed a statement I fact checked and was incorrect.
I think you need to calm down a bit matey.
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u/No_Priors Europe 4h ago
I need to "Calm down".
I corrected you and asked where you were from, no need to panic.
Now about where you are from?
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u/HorizonBC 4h ago
I don’t understand how you can write a comment where everything is wrong or irrelevant.
Where I’m from is of no concern to you, nor is it hard to find out…
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u/No_Priors Europe 4h ago
Already told you why, now where are you from? We aren't moving past this point, what do you have to hide?
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u/HorizonBC 4h ago
Got to be a bot fml.
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u/No_Priors Europe 4h ago edited 4h ago
Tell Mr Botty where you're from.
Edit: I wonder what you have to hide, must be awful.
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u/Some_Leg9822 5h ago
Britain should stop laundering Russian money. Those without sin...
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u/HorizonBC 5h ago edited 5h ago
I agree, though that isn’t as blatant. Profits from this go back to Russia, as well as the raw materials.
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u/tree_boom United Kingdom 10h ago edited 8h ago
"naval mission designed to counter Russia" is a weird way to describe the Joint Expeditionary Force but hey ho.
I am quite interested to see how far Ireland chooses to go here. The JEF is not a NATO structure, but all of the Force's permanent members are NATO members, and the explicitly military character of the organisation is at odds with Ireland's neutrality. They're not going to join those parts, clearly, but participation in some of the JEF's other priorities might be workable. Much noise is made of Ireland's responsibility towards seabed infrastructure that runs through its EEZ. The common criticism of Ireland's relative inability to defend that infrastructure irritates me, because although it runs through Ireland's EEZ it almost all actually lands in France or the UK and so is not - by my estimation - primarily Ireland's responsibility at all. They do bear some responsibility though, and countering action against such subsea infrastructure is something that the JEF seems to be leaning in to more and more, and perhaps co-operation in that area as well as general surveillance is more realistic.