My mom had one of his albums that I remember listening to all the time in the car. I guess he's still around, performs on 3ABN and occasionally puts out albums, but apparently never managed to make it anything more than a pretty major side hustle because he still works as a dentist in Battle Creek.

From my memories of his music he's actually not bad, some of his songs have pretty positive messages by SDA standards including proclaiming assurance of salvation and encouraging people not to beat themselves up over past guilt, and musically some of his stuff is actually kind of interesting, a little bit old-fashioned but not traditional hymn-type stuff and also not just another "Christian rock" artist, some of his songs have a bit of a "swing" to them that I kind of like.

That said, he is still very much an Adventist, and his music is not without problems. The song of his that's burned the most into my memory (probably because it was my favorite when I was a kid) is called "Mr. Darwin" and the whole song is about denying evolution ("For it was God who formed me from the dust and gave my body shape, And it is he that I'm descended from and not some hairy ape" 😂) and the last verse almost gleefully anticipates the eternal condemnation of Charles Darwin ("Because when Jesus comes he's going to take his children off the ground, And you're just goin' to have to stick around!"). And that line in particular sticks in my brain as an illustration of just how hilariously obsessed so many Adventists and Christians in general are with this dead 19th century scientist and how much they hate him, as if he is single-handedly responsible for people figuring out that no, God didn't actually breathe magic air into a dirt man to make humans, and that we didn't just "descend" from apes, we are apes.

I'm an Ex-Mormon, currently atheist, working in customer service taking phone calls. Today one of our customers called with an extremely basic question, then spent a half hour trying to get me to join the SDA.

He started by telling me I should check out this interesting Christian website called amazingfacts.org and told me all about this Pastor Doug who was Jewish, but became a Christian. But he was disappointed that not of the churches followed the Bible... Like for example worshipping on Sunday!

Right then I realized he was an Adventist but he continued to just talk about how the Bible says this and that and how the Catholic Church really worships the sun and whatnot without actually saying what church he belonged too.

I humored him because he was nice enough, and I am interested in other groups similar to my experience in Mormonism.

Eventually he asked me if I go to church and I had to be honest and say that do not because I'm an atheist. He then told me a "joke" about how there's a scripture that says "he who thinks in his heart there is no god is a fool" which... Is not a joke, you are just calling me a fool after I've been really nice and listened to you ramble about religion, but okay...

Is this a common tactic of proselytizing for Adventists to call random businesses and try to convert the employees? Or how do they normally try and spend the message? Can any of you relate to the things he said or know about this Pastor Doug guy?

Got to punch this one out quick during break at work. If you've seen one Sabbath Breakers Club invitation you probably have a hint what to do.

And you don't have to wait for mine. Anyone that can post here can start the wicked club:

👹 👹 👹 👹 👹

Sabbath Breakers Club belongs to members of r/exAdventist on reddit. These guidelines are intended to suggest how anyone with posting privilege in this sub may start a week's Sabbath Breakers Club thread, not to control such postings.

• Keep it timely. If it's SDA-defined Sabbath somewhere on earth and no one has already started a Sabbath Breakers Club thread, you're clear to start one.

• Start Sabbath Breakers Club threads with that phrase "Sabbath Breakers Club." The reason for this is to make it easy to tell if no Sabbath Breakers Club thread has been posted for the present week. Just search "Sabbath Breakers Club" in r/exAdventist.

• You're welcome to use the image that looks like from an old woodcut of Moses smashing tables of stone with the Israelite throng celebrating their golden calf in the background, but you're not required to. Different ideas to launch the thread may invite still more, and more diverse, participation.

• Remember we're here to ease the church's attempts to control using Sabbath rules and guilt trips. Non-humiliating humor and empathy in your invitation can help set the tone, and enjoy exercising some spontaneous leadership in starting a Sabbath Breakers Club thread.

• Pass it on. Cutting and pasting this "fine print" can help future Sabbath Breakers Club hosts self-identify and feel empowered to step up and shine.

Edit: add these guidelines

I am asking here as my account isn't old enough on the main sub to ask them. Context: In my town there is 2 Christian bookshops & decided to check out the other one which ABC Christian Book Store (as i had usually gone to other in town called House of James) during COVID but prior to lockdown & it had mainstream translations like KJV, NJKV & NASB making me think it was a normal Christian shop. I went to the person running the shop asking if they had any other translations in stock (which i asked as HoJ likes to keep the non mainstream ones in the back) because I like to compare them & they claimed to me that there is an SDA exclusive translation but they refused to tell me what it was called unless I converted. I politely refused & so i left empty handed. So after a few years past I am curious if that claim is even true that commissioned their own translation & if so what it is called so I know if i ever see it in a thrift shop

I’d add big franks (obviously), sda logo, hymnal, and a pathfinder sash. What else should we add?

I grew up Adventist (4th gen) and saw family estrangement all throughout the members in my home church and the extended conference. This included my own family, due to my grandparents’ narcissism (and I literally mean they very likely had actual narcissistic personality disorder as opposed to being extremely self-centered jerks). There were a lot of families that had split and certain groups weren’t even speaking to each other, which made camp meetings strange.

Was this common among most or all Adventists? Or did I happen to live in an SDA conference full of awful people?

I ask because the mainstream conversation of adult children going no contact with parents and other family being seen as a recent “trend”, but it was fairly common where I grew up among the SDAs I knew.

i was talking with my mom and for once speaking candidly about how her emotional abuse and neglect has affected me to this day.

i was just beginning to tell her about the constant stream of "lazy/stupid/liar/wicked" that runs through my head constantly, and she was like, "who tells you that?!"

i was like, "my brain...you—" she was like, 'NO id never!"

me: "yes you. you think i deserve that—"

immediately she jumped in with, "well maybe, you have abandoned god and—"

me: "—AS A CHILD???

she immediately burst into tears, like "how could i" etc.

the point is though, she was still on that bullshit. every mistake i made, anything she personally didn't like, anything i did that was weird or off-putting that is perfectly normal for a kid was treated with you wouldn't be like this if you read your bible and loved god.

i was a CHILD. i did my sabbath school lesson. i prayer every night. i 'loved' god and jesus and adventism. WHAT MORE is a CHILD supposed to do to "prove" that they love GOD.

the fact that she was about to jump into it today, the same she did when i was little enraged me. and it made me sad.

my mom and i think so many Adventist or religious parents pass the 'burden' of being an emotional safe post for their kid. to just be curious and encourage them. blame everything on being wicked and not loving god enough, instead of guiding them to do better. it's so neglectful and leaves kids to stew and shame themselves all on their own.

what a cop out. god and the bible is not going to parent your kids for you. PARENT YOUR OWN KIDS!!

Did any of yall grow up being taught the casino is sinful and gambling or playing certain card games is bad? If that’s a common sda belief, did EGW counsel against that specific thing?

Algo que nunca ni tan siquiera pensar que me ocurriría fuera que hablen mal de mi por simplemente dejar la iglesia, deje la iglesia como hace 3 años obviamente con buenos terminos, solo deje de ir, mi padre a veces saca el tema que pregunten por mi, pero a la vez, mencionan que estoy en malos pasos, que me desvíe,ext. hay veces que quiero hacerme daño, en vez de buscar ayuda, Llaman a un pastor de iglesia...

I handled myself poorly in here and i've stopped by to apologize.

No matter what anyone says or does i still need to be more resilient.

Sorry everyone.

For context Crosswalk is a progressive, contemporary sda church chain with locations across the u.s. & abroad, originating in california.

I don’t consider myself adventist but I do attend Crosswalk semi-regularly as sometimes I find it nice to be in adventist environment (its hard to wean of a lifetime of only knowing SDA, don’t judge). And weirdly it can be a bit healing?! Huge focus on acceptance and community above all, zero mention of Ellen ever. To be honest, the location I attend feels like a bunch of ex-adventists attending a non-denominational church. Some church members are openly gay, and I’ve grabbed drinks with a church friend. Sermons cover things like social justice, and call out christian nationalism and the harmful aspects of adventism - like legalism and doomsday obsession.

When I hear a particularly good sermon though, I always wonder if they are preaching the same message at the location in the south (probably not or there’d be a riot). I went to a location in the South when I still believed, and it definitely felt different than the one I visit now.

Regardless, I can’t escape that I don’t actually believe the evangelical christian doctrine, so it only does so much for me. But at the very least, it’s a safe place to talk to real people who get sda weirdness.

I almost feel angry sometimes, like - if this was the version of adventism I grew up in, then maybe I’d still be here - I wouldn’t have to give up my community and disappoint my family. Are you kidding - a cool, hip community with no lifestyle restrictions, and I get a free craft latte at church? Count me in! (genuine jk)

Anyways, I’m curious what people think of them? It’s strange, because they’re so far from traditional adventism and almost seem to hide the connection, with all their aesthetic branding and slogans, that you’d almost never know.

I have been an Adventist for a long time but lately I am not feeling it. The thing is, I have members who embrace me when I come to church but when I don’t no one contact me to see if I am ok. I feel that it is very cliquey and everyone belongs to a small pocket of friends and no matter how long you attend you are never considered a full member of these cliques.

Another thing too is the pastor’s sermons are usually based on comparing churches, especially the Catholic Church, and preaching how wrong they are versus how right our church is. I just want to listen to a good sermon about forgiveness and God’s love for all. I don’t care what other churches are doing. I also want a sense of belonging. If my name is in the membership book and I missed a few sabbaths in a row, I would like to be contacted and asked how I am doing. Sometimes just a call is enough to draw you back to the church.

What should I know about this?

She is uber conservative and was raised Baptist (and has always been Baptist). Seems to like (as she calls it) Bible-beating pastors.

Her reasons for conversion are the fact that worshipping on Sunday is “actually a pagan concept” and the SDA perspective on rapture.

I really don’t care what she pursues (I won’t be joining in) but curious about what I could expect to witness.

Sin tastes so good.

On June 5, 1968, Senator Robert F. Kennedy was shot at the Ambassador Hotel in Los Angeles, minutes after winning the California Democratic primary. He died the next day. The shooter, a 24year-old Christian Palestinian immigrant named Sirhan Sirhan, fired a .22 revolver into the crowd around Kennedy and was tackled on the spot. He’s still alive, still serving a life sentence, and has been denied parole repeatedly.
What doesn’t get mentioned much: Sirhan was raised Christian and, as a young man in California, church-hopped through several denominations trying to find where he fit. Along the way he spent time as a Baptist and, briefly, as a Seventh-day Adventist. His mother said his faith mattered a lot to him — he once complained that other kids his age didn’t take religion seriously enough. By 1966, two years before the assassination, he’d left all that behind for the occult-leaning Rosicrucians (the Ancient Mystical Order of the Rosae Crucis).
I’m not posting this to say Adventism “made” him do anything — it obviously didn’t, and his path ran through several faiths and then out the other side entirely. But it’s a strange, little-known footnote that one of the most infamous American assassins of the 20th century sat in Adventist pews for a stretch. Add him to the odd roster of former Adventists history has produced.

Wikipedia Source:

I remember the behaviors of other Adventist people from believing they better than someone becuase they aren’t apart of the same faith, how other parents are negligent and rude to their own kids, and even question if it has affected my parents since one of them especially believed they are right because they are the parent no matter what, and I believe that Adventism has everything to do with that mindset and behavior.

Well, as Sabbath Breakers Club branding goes, we're back to the classic Angry Moses woodcut, tastes great, free of high-fructose corn syrup, but, at your option, may contain gin, caffeine, cayenne, or THC …

Of course we welcome replies about your current weekend cut loose from shaming SDA Sabbath rules. To add unique color this week, I'm asking for memories of Sabbath moments while you were still in. They may not have been pleasant at the time, but they landed with a hint that there might be more to Friday nights and Saturdays than Sabbath routine. Did it come like a whisper or was it more like the roar of a jet fighter plane? If you were like me, you'd been well conditioned to ignore and deny feelings, but we don't have to do that any more. When you recall that moment or those moments, what feelings come up now?

This has been one of the easiest invitations I've made recently. I'd be doubly glad if you read it and something inside you said, "I believe I could do something like that but with a flavor from my own heart." Because I already believe you could, I'm closing with our famous, fine-print guidelines to cheer you on to your first—or fifth—time hosting our club.

👁️ 🏂 🏊 🛹 💃 🪽 🛴 👁️ 🏂 🏊 🛹 💃 🪽 🛴

Sabbath Breakers Club belongs to members of r/exAdventist on reddit. These guidelines are intended to suggest how anyone with posting privilege in this sub may start a week's Sabbath Breakers Club thread, not to control such postings.

• Keep it timely. If it's SDA-defined Sabbath somewhere on earth and no one has already started a Sabbath Breakers Club thread, you're clear to start one.

• Start Sabbath Breakers Club threads with that phrase "Sabbath Breakers Club." The reason for this is to make it easy to tell if no Sabbath Breakers Club thread has been posted for the present week. Just search "Sabbath Breakers Club" in r/exAdventist.

• You're welcome to use the image that looks like from an old woodcut of Moses smashing tables of stone with the Israelite throng celebrating their golden calf in the background, but you're not required to. Different ideas to launch the thread may invite still more, and more diverse, participation.

• Remember we're here to ease the church's attempts to control using Sabbath rules and guilt trips. Non-humiliating humor and empathy in your invitation can help set the tone, and enjoy exercising some spontaneous leadership in starting a Sabbath Breakers Club thread.

• Pass it on. Cutting and pasting this "fine print" can help future Sabbath Breakers Club hosts self-identify and feel empowered to step up and shine.

I’ve been checked out of the whole Adventist thing for a while now, but I still go to church bc I don’t want anyone to suspect anything.

I can’t really afford telling anyone in my SDA circle, especially my family. So I’ve been playing along for over almost 2 years now.

Most of the time, I can deal with it. I just let things go through one ear and out the other (at church especially lol). But sometimes, I have so many questions I want to ask but don’t bc I fear it’ll out me or I’ll receive lots of backlash for asking such questions. Im forced into lots of church events/programs.

I’m harboring a lot of hurt and resentment it boils over sometimes and it can get so exhausting, especially how I, as a girl, get treated by the church (or Christianity as a whole for that matter). I hate how I’ve always been made to feel lesser than my whole life.

But I am also so attached to the church bc of the circle of people I have. I care for them a lot and they are the only ones I have.

I know therapy is an option, but my parents don’t really believe in that sort of stuff. I still live with them and depend on them financially quite a bit. I know my school does counseling, but I also go to an SDA one. So I’m kinda fucked there.

Idk, I just can’t wait for the day I can be fully independent and not have to deal with all this anymore.

Sorry for the long rant, but typing this out alone helps. I’d appreciate any advice! And thanks for the kind words.

Hi y’all, Idk if I already count as an exAdventist but I am a conflicted one lol. I still attend church when I can and practice the diet but I don’t really believe in Ellen White and every single doctrine she established. I used to be a faithful one tho and tried to date only within the church but not until now. I just had my first non Adventist boyfriend and despite the fact that I am not very Adventist anymore idk why there’s always a fear creeping inside me that my relationship will not work because my partner isn’t adventist. That principle was hammered in so deep in my head for years so deep that I can’t yank it out. My partner has always been good to me but idk why my head keeps thinking the worst is about to happen—thoughts like he’ll eventually show his true colors, he’ll eventually cheat, etc. and EGW and all the dogmatic ppl gonna say “I told you so.” It’s so hard to be happy when some other voice is whispering to your head “Wait til it goes bad coz ur disobedient. Wait til u cry again.” He never did anything wrong to me and he is very kind but a lot of times I am being held back because of these thoughts. It doesn’t help knowing that ur family and close friends is gonna call you out for it instead of being happy for you once you tell them.

Has anyone had to seek therapy for the religious psychosis/trauma from the SDA religious experience?
I grew up in a home where my mother was constantly fearing the Sunday law. She was an extremist, pulled me out of high school and shipped me to the Mexican mountains because she thought the world was coming to an end. Long story short I made it back to America where I belong. I’ve struggled my whole entire life because of the decisions my mother made. I’ve suffered of anxiety and depression and after speaking to a therapist, I came to realize that a lot of my anxiety is linked to religious psychosis. Eventually, I had left the Church at a very young age. I was so confused and I felt so unworthy. I literally did not understand what Gods grace meant. I decided to stay away from my mom cause she was not all there always shaming, judging me & most of all fear mongering. I became homeless at the age of 18 . Left the church and literally hated Christians. Sadly the SDA people are so hypocritical and have lost touch with the true gospel of Christ. Weirdly enough I came back to that church and stayed in there for like 20 years. I have had the worst experience within this church. It was so bad that I had to seek a therapist.

Was anyone else here raised within a subculture of Adventism where the general conference was considered too “worldly” and instead you would go to weird home churches that were much much stricter than “regular” Adventists? I remember when I was young a homechurch literally splitting up over the use of salt. There are so many nut jobs when you delve into the more conservative layers of Adventism. Also did anyone else go to OHA? It was the only school my mom felt was conservative enough for me to attend.

When I was heavily into Adventism since I was born, the main reason for me leaving was hearing or seeing things that deep down I felt was ethically wrong or logically false,but did not know why or even how to express it because everything in the bubble I was raised in presented it as normal.

Has anyone had this moment?