Extreme Chinese players send cow dung, funeral chrysanthemums, curse banners, and ritual items to Papergames/Infold office as Love and Deepspace controversy escalates. LADS Chinese social media accounts have reportedly lost around 1 million followers

[u/blueberryandvanilla]

Love and Deepspace has been facing one of its biggest controversies after the official reveal of its sixth male love interst, Ao Yin/Valko. Since the teaser was released, the game's official Chinese social media accounts have reportedly lost around 1 million followers across platforms.

The controversy has also drawn attention from Beijing Daily, which published a commentary arguing that the backlash reflects a growing crisis of trust between Papergames and its core player base.

The backlash has also spread offline.

As part of Ao Yin's promotional campaign, Papergames installed a giant Valko wolf-print display and a large themed balloon outside its office.

According to reports circulating on Chinese social media, some extreme players placed cow dung inside the company's delivery lockers, with visitors claiming they could smell the odor.

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Others left white and yellow chrysanthemums, curse banners, glutinous rice, and pomelo leaves around the promotional display outside the building. Some visitors also posed outside the office while making middle-finger gestures for photos.

In modern Chinese culture, white and yellow chrysanthemums are closely associated with funerals, mourning, and paying respects to the deceased. Sending these flowers to a person or company can be interpreted as wishing death upon the recipient.

Meanwhile, glutinous rice and pomelo leaves are traditional folk items used in spiritual cleansing rituals to ward off evil spirits. Some protesters used them sarcastically to suggest that Papergames had been "possessed" after introducing the new character and need to ward off this new evil spirit.

One protester also reportedly delivered a banner reading "The new male lead is a wild boar" to the company's office and later claimed that Papergames threatened to call the police. Online, some players also joked about destroying the giant Valko balloon, although there is no evidence that anyone actually attempted to do so (now).

Following the protests, Papergames reportedly increased security around its headquarters. While visitors were previously allowed to enter the building to take photos, recent reports claim that public access has become more restricted, particularly to prevent provocative photos or obscene gestures inside the office.

According to the article by Beijing Daily, the issue goes far beyond Ao Yin's appearance. While some players criticized his more Westernized character design, the main source of frustration is that many longtime players feel the existing five love interests have been neglected. Main storylines of a love interest have reportedly gone over 500 days without updates. Many fans believe the company's resources have been redirected toward introducing a new character instead of continuing content for the existing cast.

Beijing Daily noted that Papergames' global expansion strategy is commercially understandable—Love and Deepspace has seen strong overseas revenue growth—but argued that otome games rely on a "trust economy." Players invest not only money, but also years of emotional attachment. When that trust is damaged, commercial success alone cannot easily repair it. According to the editorial, Ao Yin became the catalyst for frustrations that had been building for years rather than the sole cause of the controversy.

Papergames issues a midnight apology

At around 12:00-1:00 a.m. (China time) on June 27-28, Papergames released an official statement responding to the backlash.

The company stated that:

• Ao Yin (Valko) will remain the sixth male lead.
• The main story updates for Caleb and Sylus are currently in development.
• All players will receive compensation consisting of 10 Limited Wish Tickets and 10 Standard Wish Tickets (20 pulls total).

However, Beijing Daily published a second commentary shortly afterward titled "Six Questions for Love and Deep Space."

The article argued that the statement failed to answer several key concerns, including:

• Where was the apology?
• Why did the company only respond after millions of comments and tens of thousands of complaints?
• Was the 20-pull compensation a genuine apology or simply an attempt to reduce player loss?
• How will Papergames fulfill its promise not to neglect existing characters?
• Has the company truly changed its attitude, or is it merely responding to public pressure?

The editorial concluded that the controversy is no longer just about Ao Yin, but about whether paying players can still trust that their time, money, and emotional investment will be respected, but about whether paying players can still trust that their time, money, and emotional investment will be respected.

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Ao Yin is scheduled to officially release on July 9, and his performance may determine whether this controversy has a lasting impact. However, many observers believe the situation has already become about more than a single character—it reflects years of accumulated frustration over story updates, resource allocation, and communication between Papergames and its longtime player base.

Image sources:

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[u/Minazura]

Lads currently has the biggest controversy since the release of the Game. And it's Not because of Valko (the newest LI), though, of course, there is a loud minority that complains about him.

Most of the criticism is because infold refuses to give anything to the player for free. The latest Main Story Update for Caleb was 1.5 years ago. There is no real endgame content. There is barely any option to Farm ingame currency. The free currency shop is mostly dead because Infold wont update it. And there are even more complains of the playerbase Infold has refused to listen to.

A few hours ago there was a Livestream for the next big Update and we barely get anything. Around 30 STANDARD Pulls (10 of them were from the "Apology" we got Yesterday), 10 Limited Pulls, not even enough currency for 20 Pulls. Barely any new functions and the biggest one is not even playable for some with weaker phone hardware. It's just a Joke atp

[u/Tenken10 → u/Minazura]

So I'm assuming the Valko thing is just one of the several straws that finally broke the camel's back

[u/VickyKujikawa → u/Tenken10]

exactly

[u/faldese → u/Tenken10]

Yes and no. I think one thing to keep in mind is that a lot of LADS players are sensitive about the fact that LADS is 'the' major female-based game, so they feel like the LADS community behaving poorly is a reflection on women. I think that's led to some dishonesty about the reaction to this character when it comes to defending the fandom. "We're mad about greed/story" is a lot more pleasant sounding than "we're acting like idol stans protecting our bias".

Because, quite honestly, most of this reaction is about Valko specifically. If Valko had been a fluffy-haired twink there wouldn't have been an outcry like this. Frustration about the Main Story, yes. What's driving the furor is that Valko is perceived to not be aligned to Chinese women's interests.

A few things reveal this:

1. The Main Story updated every six months has been the norm with one exception (Prologue to Tomorrow) which was not very well received. Outside of that, it's been a six month rotation. Two of those updates were to introduce new love interests, and do not contain updates for any other character. Valko is following that pattern.
2. People have been objecting to a new LI on the grounds that it would take him a long time to catch up - with that logic, introducing him in the mid-year update gave him another six months of content he'd otherwise be missing, which is what a lot of people said the problem would be.
3. These reactions started as soon as Valko was actually revealed. Not when the version update livestream happened (the biggest problem of which was no new resource-farming mode was announced). Eventually they picked up the other threads, but I personally tend to believe that people's initial reactions are the most honest.

This is not to say that people aren't really annoyed by a lot of these other things, but I don't think you should be giving the fandom a pass here. They are mad about Valko because he's not the kind of hot they're interested in, and since they're not attracted to him he's perceived as a threat to their fave. There's a ton of racism, homophobia, and xenophobia baked into that.

We'll see how many people actually end up dropping the game. LADS has had two major boycotts and both of them were truly pathetic in how they were handled. The fact of the matter is people are mad enough to make noise on the internet, but not mad enough to stop spending - even if it was their own fave getting shafted (see: King of Darknight). Valko's release may not debut to amazing numbers, but what about the next multi? The next myth?

We'll see. Anyway, I'm going to brace for angry LADS girlies downvotes. 🫡

[u/MODERNHoolaHoop → u/faldese]

Very well put.

Because, quite honestly, most of this reaction is about Valko specifically. If Valko had been a fluffy-haired twink there wouldn't have been an outcry like this.

This is especially funny because people were asking for a red head with long hair who is a nerd and very toxic ("I'll put you in a cage or kill you" type of toxic) as 6th LI to be distinct from everyone else.

But now everybody complains that he's... distinct and not like the others. His burgundy hair color is a problem because it's mimicking Raf (and red hair wouldn't?), his very short hair "sticks out" (but long hair wouldn't?) and he's a nerdy goofball which is also somehow a problem because he's way too different and also not different enough. Don't get me started on that jaw thing and Frankenstein accusations.

Special attention to the growing sentiment that he's now accused as an abuser because he "broke into" MC's apartment through a balcony and is trashing her place like he owns it (dude was let in and is just goofing around). That it's sexual harassment and triggering, stuff which allegedly didn't happen with any other LI and they didn't expect from such a wholesome game.

From a game where Zayne picks up dozed off in a car MC and takes her to her apartment, Sylus violates MC in several ways right in the MS on his first encounter, Caleb spikes MC's drink and all LIs stalk MC or have other problematic aspects in their relationship going on. Like, this game wasn't free from problematic aspects from the get go. To claim otherwise is to blatantly lie.

And I myself don't like to engage with certain portrayals of problematic themes and I love this game because it tackles these problematic themes in a way I find satisfactory.

I can sympathize with people who get triggered from certain content and it's tragic stuff like that happens. I myself got triggered once from objectively very innocent interaction with Zayne's moment post that I almost deleted the game on the spot (it was very early game and I didn't know what's what yet, especially MC's dynamic with Zayne, so I was kind of caught off guard). But you have to understand that it's just fiction in the end, you have the power to readjust your approach and continue having fun.

Then we have some other people claiming that Valko came out of nowhere while we've known other LIs for a long time before their release.

Like what and where, genuinely. Caleb abruptly showed up in a very short portion of the game in the beginning and promptly died. That's it. "Caleb truthers" is a thing, he was that sudden, brief and rather inconsequential there was infighting whether he'll actually release as a LI or not. Sylus was even less, mere couple of lines in a voice recording with nothing else to go off of. You expecting Sylus and Caleb to release due to trademarks and Paperfold making statements isn't you "knowing Sylus and Caleb for a long time". They were fucking ghosts.

And it's not like first introduction of OG3 isn't similarly whiplashy. Everyone's first reaction to them is literally "who tf are you and why are you such an ass". It's only after engaging with rest of the content players get a broader picture, see their other sides and warm up to them.

[u/faldese → u/MODERNHoolaHoop]

Special attention to the growing sentiment that he's now accused as an abuser because he "broke into" MC's apartment through a balcony and is trashing her place like he owns it (dude was let in and is just goofing around). That it's sexual harassment and triggering, stuff which allegedly didn't happen with any other LI and they didn't expect from such a wholesome game.

💯 Yeah this one is especially hypocritical to me. Not that I'm saying people can't draw their own individual lines, but this is very much a 'don't piss on me and tell me it's raining' situation. Very few people actually care.

Hell, God of Annihilation had an actual sexual assault - yes, we know MC secretly liked it and wanted it, but the fact was she was saying no and Zayne kept going. If that wasn't enough for mass fury and boycotts I simply do not want to hear it for Valko.

Then we have some other people claiming that Valko came out of nowhere while we've known other LIs for a long time before their release.

This one I disagree with more or less. I think you're underselling Caleb - he texts you, calls you, has a whole chapter devoted to him and then basically the entire rest of the Main Story until he reappears is devoted to the effects of his and Josephine's deaths. He may not have been there, but he had a presence.

The build up to Sylus is more pronounced than you're saying - it was several chapters of mentioning things related to him up including her trying to meet him until he debuted.

I think Valko being telegraphed more clearly would have helped the situation both in giving girlies time to anticipate him and an idea of what to expect. It would have muted the reaction.

But I don't think it would have 'fixed' the story because the story is, frankly, poorly written.

[u/MODERNHoolaHoop → u/faldese]

It's not so much me underselling Caleb so much me entering the game with certain outlook which didn't frame Caleb to me as definite potential LI. Tara and Jenna are also there and interact with you in moment posts and/or chats, Caleb was in that category for me. He was there to set up MC's background along with Grandma.

And I gotta say that when he appeared on my screen my first thought was "Oh my god, you're totally my brother, aren't you? You're giving the vibes. Please also be romanceable". And then that mf blew up shattering my hopes and dreams lol. And it so happened that I didn't engage with the community in any meaningful capacity so his release came out of left field for me. It'd been a long time after all since his story bit and there was nothing hinting at his return. His release was the reason I actually started looking into community discussions more.

Well, MS has several important figures with build up, it doesn't mean that build up serves as LI's introduction in particular. People thought 6th LI would be either that suit guy from EVER that actually had a body model, or that sickly guy from EVER, or that assassin guy from EVER because they were important enough figures but you know... This is after all a story-oriented game so world building is a thing.

Valko got even less build up than Sylus but also, again, it's whatever because other LIs literally popped up in a story without any (Xavier, Rafayel, Zayne, Caleb).

Like, if I were looking at it as a problem then the issue is with writing as a whole. It's not necessarily Valko's problem, or any other LI's problem, really. Just that there's not enough stuff leading up to LIs' introductions in general. MS content is rather short, bare-bones and straightforward in a way. But oh well. They clearly allocated more resources into limited cards which most probably affected MS development and this is the result.

[u/faldese → u/MODERNHoolaHoop]

People thought 6th LI would be either that suit guy from EVER that actually had a body model, or that sickly guy from EVER, or that assassin guy from EVER because they were important enough figures but you know

Well, more it was that people strongly suspected we'd get a 6th LI, and we expected that Infold would try to seed the character into the story somehow - the fact everyone was guessing after these people is evidence, to me, that it's poor writing to not have had him telegraphed more clearly into the story, as clearly everyone expected that it would make narrative sense to do so.

it's whatever because other LIs literally popped up in a story without any (Xavier, Rafayel, Zayne, Caleb)

All four are introductory characters - I really don't know what you mean by no build up, it's impossible to have build up to a character on Page 1, Chapter 1 of a story when they're introducing a new character.

With Valko, we're 2.5 years into the story, so it's past the intro stage. I just think if they had seeded him a little bit better, like had MC interact with his company, hear impressions of a hunter, etc, people would have slowly acclimated until they accepted 'okay, we're going to get a 6th LI, and this is what he's like'. I don't think it would mean people would fall over in love with him BUT it would be less intense of a reaction because it would be less of a surprise.

Like, if I were looking at it as a problem then the issue is with writing as a whole.

We definitely agree on that. I play a lot of 'traditional', non-mobile otome and if you were to try and read through the storylines the way you play a normal otome it would be grossly apparent how choppy and inconsistent and poorly paced the writing is. What this game has going for it are individual emotional beats and EXCELLENT production value.

[u/ExpensiveBowler147 → u/faldese]

Bro I’m convinced people didn’t anticipate Valko at all because NO ONE reads world underneath. He’s subtly mentioned so many times. His company too.

[u/MODERNHoolaHoop → u/ExpensiveBowler147]

Well, it's pretty much all but confirmed that no one reads WU because it's only just now that CN players went into outrage mod over "Test Subject: A-0731" in WU. It's been months since its release. I remember reading that and going like "This got through? Are we ok with this? Is it just me? I hope I'm worried for nothing and it won't backfire for them".

Well, it totally backfired for them in the long run. Either because CN players were fine with this because "it's an unfortunate coincidence" and they let it be or didn't even register these numbers as "those" numbers in the first place, or they didn't think it was fine but chose to close one eye to not "hurt the company" because it's a touchy subject.

But now people are out for blood and anything goes just to hurt the company and Valko so WU stories with any and all numbers are getting spread as some proof of conspiracy of JP infiltration, planting of ideoligies and sneaky mocking of CN people etc. Shit is so nuts Paperfold completely nuked numbers from WU.

That right there is an indication that future writing will suffer due to immense self-censorship to avoid potential dragging through mud because people now will look through every little thing with lens with malicious intent.

[u/faldese → u/ExpensiveBowler147]

He's only clearly mentioned in the most recent WU update which came out ~3 months ago. Unless you have other evidence than I've seen in the last few days.

[u/MODERNHoolaHoop → u/faldese]

All four are introductory characters - I really don't know what you mean by no build up, it's impossible to have build up to a character on Page 1, Chapter 1 of a story when they're introducing a new character.

Yeah, you're looking at it from perspective of already knowing that these characters are playable, they need introduction in their respective chapters and that the story itself should start with these characters. I'm thinking from perspective of like a book or VN where you might vaguely know about someone but not meet them up until 30-40% of the story and don't even know if they're important enough while meeting a bunch of other people of various importance to you and the world (some gacha stories also are more like lengthy VNs and story intro characters aren't playable).

Devs cut corners in this regard. They needed to roll out characters immediately and sacrificed narrative for it (likely also has to do with them rewriting all these intros). They could've introduced you to combat with MC only for first chapters, establishing her daily life, personality, introducing you to the world in general and sprinkling in some info about OG3. Basically how they sprinkled in vague info about Sylus without really highlighting his special importance to the player in particular.

What we have now is you're essentially thrusted into action and introductions one after another in quick succession with nothing in-between. When it didn't have to be like that. But I also understand why they did it. Not enough resources to dedicate to a storytelling like that, many people wouldn't actually like something like that (people hate long "irrelevant" intros) and it's not attention grabby enough.

But then I frankly don't see the point of making Valko special by telegraphing his presence in MS to the point it's obvious he's gonna be 6th LI. They didn't do so for Sylus (who was actually vaguely sprinkled in) nor Caleb (dead silence). And I feel like community wouldn't even like Valko's obvious presence in other LIs' MS in the first place. And we're already established MS doesn't have chapters dedicated to MC so... We arrive at that vague info in WU which people immediately jumped onto thinking this is gonna be 6th LI (when every slightly important guy is your potential LI you're bound to be right at least once lol).

And like, this company hates transparency and giving you any info on their schedule. Devs kept Valko under wraps very much intentionally to surprise everyone and make them spend because nobody would be prepared. The usual. Because they could've made a simple announcement at the beginning of this year that another LI is coming. It's that easy.

But also. There's always been one giant freaking "Coming Soon" in menu as perpetual build up. I get that sometimes it's there for legal purposes and doesn't mean anything but then again, it's there for exactly this reason, to prepare people for new additions and protect company from both ends. There's always a chance it actually does mean something. 6th LI no matter who it would've been was a thing at least in concept and people should've been prepared for it to become a reality one day.

[u/faldese → u/MODERNHoolaHoop]

Yeah, you're looking at it from perspective of already knowing that these characters are playable, they need introduction in their respective chapters and that the story itself should start with these characters. I'm thinking from perspective of like a book or VN where you might vaguely know about someone but not meet them up until 30-40% of the story and don't even know if they're important enough while meeting a bunch of other people of various importance to you and the world (some gacha stories also are more like lengthy VNs and story intro characters aren't playable).

I promise I'm not. I play a lot of single-player otome, and it's very common for the entire cast to be met in the opening chapters (save secret route types). It's usually the case that you ID them the instant you see how they're drawn because they're so much more detailed than everyone else. That's true of LADS - Caleb's model is far more detailed than Tara, Jenna, Josephine, or the one Hunter president dude.

I won't disagree that it would help with the pacing not to do that, but the standard for whether it's okay for the OG3 and Caleb to be introduced early 'without warning' vs Sylus and Valko is very different because it's early story vs mid story.

But then I frankly don't see the point of making Valko special by telegraphing his presence in MS to the point it's obvious he's gonna be 6th LI. They didn't do so for Sylus (who was actually vaguely sprinkled in) nor Caleb (dead silence).

I disagree, they distinctly did so for Sylus and Caleb. I know some people were in denial about Caleb especially but it was mostly people who were weirded out by dating your brother. CN girlies knew what was up (not least because literally they were announced as LIs in the beta of the game).

And like, this company hates transparency and giving you any info on their schedule. Devs kept Valko under wraps very much intentionally to surprise everyone and make them spend because nobody would be prepared. The usual. Because they could've made a simple announcement at the beginning of this year that another LI is coming. It's that easy.

Sure, I won't disagree about that. That's exactly what they're thinking. They don't really want people to be prepared for anything so they feel FOMO constantly. I can't tell you how many times I see on the main sub 'so and so isn't my main buuuut this other card looks so good, do you think I should risk it???' because they don't KNOW what their main's stuff will look like yet.

But that still adds credence to the idea that people would be a lot calmer if Valko had been telegraphed more, because they wouldn't have these amped up, ambiguous feelings of not knowing what is coming next that makes them on edge.

[u/MODERNHoolaHoop → u/faldese]

I mean, I don't disagree that otome games might have a different norm, especially live service ones. It's not that it's particularly different to any other media either. It really just depends on the author's goals.

I will disagree however that mid story somehow should have different standards of character introduction. If early story followed one pattern I don't see why mid or late story should follow another. Both methods (build up or no build up) are valid and acceptable to me no matter the progression of the story. It's just different flavors.

The rest is also debatable but it's a matter of perspective once again. We'll agree to disagree.

What is evident, however, is that the company should figure out how to run their operations better and not be so afraid of any bit of transparency.

It's amazing, though, that they had so many controversies and were trending as "black company" before and didn't bend the knee on real issues and it's hate against pixels that forced them to act. Just goes to show where priorities lie both for community and company.

And Infinity Nikki is also going through some controversy right now so the pressure on the company as a whole is that bigger. I'd hate to be Paperfold's employee rn lol.

[u/GodOfMimir → u/MODERNHoolaHoop]

THANK YOU.

It's like people got amnesia and forgot all the eyebrow-raising things all the other LIs have done. In Valko's trailer it's pretty obvious to me that they had already met and she let him in. She's also feeling him up all the time, but that's somehow not problematic or weird.

I have no issues with any of the 'questionable' content, just to be clear. I actually enjoy it because I can tell reality from fiction. But this hypocrisy is incredibly annoying.

[u/Zevushk → u/MODERNHoolaHoop]

From a game where Zayne picks up dozed off in a car MC and takes her to her apartment

And let’s not forget that Zayne is our doctor. I don’t know about others, but for me - as someone who has many doctors among my relatives and friends - it’s absolutely unacceptable and unethical irl to enter into any kind of romantic relationship with your patient. But for some reason, only in the case of Valko do people start thinking about how acceptable or not his behaviour is in reality (although, as you rightly pointed out, he didn’t do anything terrible)

[u/AlienWeedUser420 → u/Zevushk]

honestly in comparison valko seems like the greenest flag of all of them so the fact that he's getting the huge backlash for being creepy is bonkers to me

this is coming from a day 1 caleb girlie, literally wrote fanfics abt him before he was even announced as an LI and everyone thought he wouldn't be

[u/TheBlueDolphina → u/faldese]

There is also the likely issue that valko dilutes the gacha economy by reducing the estimated gains for other chars over time. In other words, the greed argument is also tied to valko, which is the main causal incident.

[u/faldese → u/TheBlueDolphina]

I'm not 100% sure what you mean by 'estimated gains'. There's only one resource that he can affect without spending on him, and that is the resource used to pull for cards during banners, diamonds.

But Valko doesn't have an averse affect on that. The way multibanners work is you pick 3 cards (which means 3 guys) that you have increased odds for pulling for (75/25), and one card you pick as the card you 100% are guaranteed to get after pulling your first 5-star. Valko does not alter the odds of this at all.

The only thing Valko dilutes are free materials - the Galaxy Explorer and standard pool. However, any long term player pretty much has everything from these pools anyway, and likely uses the Wishing Well to rank if they need to.

It's true that Valko's existence will cause solo material to take longer. At the game's release, there were only three LIs - it now takes double the amount of time for solo content to come out for these characters that it theoretically would have (although, Sylus came out only 6 months after release, so that's debatable).

At the same time, a lot of fans complain that the rotation is too fast. There comes times when a character has multibanners and multiple times of solo banners happening in quick succession without time to recover resources, so this is a 'can't please everyone' situation.

[u/TheBlueDolphina → u/faldese]

Ah ok i didnt know about that 3 tiered system for prioritization in the game. Still ig there is some impact though more minor than I thought.

[u/defucchi → u/faldese]

yes but if you lose the 50/50 it could be Valko even if you picked say Raf/Zayne/Sylus to be your top 3. I picked Caleb, Xavier and Zayne as my cards for a Multi-banner in May and I ended up getting a Rafayel standard banner card I had already maxed out on my 50/50 and I was out of pulls by that point. I ended up not getting shit and that's when I uninstalled the game. Valko was just a trigger for all the rage that's been building up about how poor the game was going. I already had a bad feeling when they introduced the boring as shit home feature only for the SIMS addicts but that banner kinda broke the camel's back for me so I uninstalled over a month ago. Seeing this popping up in my feed feels hilarious and all I can say "only now you all realize how piss poor the game was run?" I was a day 1 player loyal for 2 years.

[u/faldese → u/defucchi]

You aren't demonstrating that the odds are worse - you have a 75% chance a card you have picked, and a 25% a card you did not. You even highlighted an instance of getting a card you didn't want, Valko or no. The odds have been the same since the beginning, the only difference is that when there were only 3, the 75% was guaranteed to be one of any of the three available banner cards, rather than one of 3 of your choosing.

I ended up getting a Rafayel standard banner card I had already maxed out on my 50/50 and I was out of pulls by that point.

What you are describing is a frustration towards gacha. It was gambling. You gambled, knowing the odds, and lost. I get why it's frustrating, but Valko has nothing to do with it.

[u/defucchi → u/faldese]

you completely missed the point that if someone actively hates Valko (as a lot of the CN players do) and gets it over any of the other guys, it makes the entire "50/50" loss even worse but okay you do you. Something that was not there before, he is diluting the pool even further for those 50/50 losses.

[u/faldese → u/defucchi]

That has nothing to do with rates.

The rate is you either get a card you pick.

OR.

You do not.

Sometimes there are cards you care more or less about if you fail your pity, but that has nothing to do with rates. Most players don't actually want all of the content from all of the guys. They've got 1-3 mains and that's it.

[u/Druplesnubb → u/faldese]

>We'll see. Anyway, I'm going to brace for angry LADS girlies downvotes.

Lmao what sub do you think you're on

[u/520mile → u/Tenken10]

That’s exactly it. It’s just what a string of poor, greed-filled decisions for the game has been leading up to and that’s why players are pissed.

[u/LunaProc → u/Tenken10]

Pretty much

[u/PlusWhereas1761 → u/Minazura]

Wait wasn't Caleb released 1.5 years ago? I thought it was less than a year ago but time do whoosh

[u/the_king_of_soupRED → u/Minazura]

Unfortunately Infold often requires drastic measures to listen to their players. Unless their top spenders are at risk, nothing changes. As a Nikki player, even our headline-making "girlcott" did not solve most of our issues (shit tutorial, shit dyeing system, shit multiplayer).

I don't condone any of the behavior of the LaDS fandom that is doing things like this, but it's so important to note that a relationship with an infold-developed game comes with agony, exploitation, and a unique level of disrespect. Because they make extremely captivating games with few competitors, they feel free to walk all over their players. It's awful.

This was definitely the last straw.

[u/Chilune → u/Minazura]

And there are even more complains of the playerbase Infold has refused to listen to.

Why should they listen, if the playerbase gonna play anyway.

[u/Minazura → u/Chilune]

Yes, they did play. But right now the revenue is dropping. Of course it could just be now and tomorrow everyone spends money again but maybe the community finally woke up :D

[u/MiddleFishArt → u/Chilune]

I mean, I quit because I was tired of how predatory LADS was, and I’m sure I’m not the only one. There’s barely any content if you don’t pay real money, since 99% of all of the card stories are paywalled. I’m a low spender in other gachas, but spending real money should feel like getting something extra rather than meeting a baseline to play

[u/papercrowns- → u/MiddleFishArt]

Tbh. Everytime i open my wallet for lads i feel incredibly bitter. Like bro, the amount of gems you get a month isnt even enough to get to the soft pity (70) unless you're on monthly. And they keep pumping out banners bi-weekly? It's crazy. Ggwp if your main is popular and always featured, fomo is your worst enemy.

Uninstalled and havent gone back since.

[u/No_Food_447 → u/Minazura]

You’re right, but unfortunately your comment is going to get buried because saying cn players think Valko is gay will get more upvotes

[u/Cranberryoftheorient → u/[deleted]]

I feel like insane people sending cow shit and death threats is a bigger deal than a bad video game tbh

[u/Psnhk → u/Cranberryoftheorient]

Unfortunately people will act as unhinged as they're allowed to. Their government needs to send a message that this isn't acceptable and won't be tolerated.

[u/blueberryandvanilla → u/[deleted]]

Lmao what agenda? I already posted about the reason in my post, I event include 2 articles. Other posts in this sub also explain the situation before.
I’m a LADS player, and I consistently report what happend among LADS fandom, good or bad. I have countless posts about great things LADS did, consistenly create content for LADS. In this sub alone, I translated LADS dev’s interview about period tracker, their good intention, how their design LADS. But now because I report on extreme case and you said me have an agenda. Sending cow dungs and death threat is illegal and a more serious issue. I’m disgusted by my own fandom’s actions

[u/CulturalGolf1135 → u/[deleted]]

What agendas they maintaining by spreading the truth here?

Like regardless of the real issues, it's doesn't change the fact that a proportion of the fandom just act this unhinged, racist and homophobic and it's can't be help that people just resonate with that more than an fictional game issues.

[u/Megor933 → u/Minazura]

I notice ones with a higher female playerbase tend to be more stingy. LaDS, Nikki, even HSR feels a lot more stingy and low effort compared to ZZZ. I heard Genshin is a bit stingy too, but at least the content seems well-made.

[u/Ok_Pattern_7511 → u/Megor933]

Genshin is considerably more stingy than HSR.

ZZZ is a bit more generous but it's more because the game was less of a success so they have to try harder to win people.

imo it's not strictly because of female playerbase but rather because of no competition. Genshin is more stingy because for 3-4 years it had no competition, and even now the "competition" is mostly other hoyo games. Non-hoyo games aren't seen as big enough of a threat

Atm no other company makes high production female oriented gachas so Paper has no competition

[u/PlotPlates → u/Ok_Pattern_7511]

A bit for ZZZ? Zenless is sending 100+ to 120 Free pulls per patch without battle pass.

Its more than that. I'm F2P patch 2.5 to 2.8, I spent around 522 free pulls. And the catch is theres just a lot of new characters, but The game hasn't done massive powercreep to intice and pressure people the need to pull for Meta characters. They only have VH which has large gap from patches to save for. If anything new characters in this game revive so much old characters.

HSR is generous, but I would say less, with how Their endgame is, with how A lot of Characters are incomplete without a BiS lightcone, or how there is lack of 4* options in characters and weapons or generally teams. The powercreep with endgame is intense, my The herta E0S1 is outdated within 3 months. I have to pull for a Full Path team to make them relevant or synergized.

Genshin, still has characters from Years ago, still meta and relevant. Yes less pulls. Genshin averages from 60-80 pulls per patch. But the game doesn't pressure players like a bitch and treat their old characters irrelevant.

[u/Ok_Pattern_7511 → u/PlotPlates]

I've kept up with HSR endgame on an F2P account while playing only half the year after hitting max rank so I don't know what you're trying to say.

I quit ZZZ but my friends without meta units are not having the best time in endgame. The game gives more pulls but the experience isn't that much ahead when I played, you still needed to pull many characters for different shills

Genshin endgame as of 2025~2026 is no less demanding than HSR, if not more because you need more characters for Imaginarium Theater. The difference between new and old dps is comical on top of the increased amount of shilled bosses

[u/Gargooner → u/Megor933]

Genshin is "Stingy" because it releases generally less characters than the other two. But if you actually calculate the amount of free gems to the characters, they ended up being the same more or less.

[u/Intelligent_Wind5597 → u/Megor933]

It has nothing to do with playerbase ratio. It’s all about market. Infold being stingy is because they’re dominating the market right now. GI and Hsr is way above other competitors so they can afford to be stingy. ZZZ is generous because they doesn’t do well and wants to win back players, as well as being in a saturated waifu gooner market

[u/glaceonhugger → u/Megor933]

Probably because gacha companies knew that obsessed female gamers tend to spend more than anyone else.

[u/laertid → u/Megor933]

IDK about HSR, haven't played it for a long time, but Nikki is pretty chill. I'm a ftp there and I have lots of pulls saved.

[u/LuneYao → u/Minazura]

Yeah I heard they printing banners left and right like crazy and freebies are not good enough

[u/Common-Lettuce5044 → u/Minazura]

imma be fr, the home update had way less diamonds than this one cause most of it was hard or impossible to get, so it is a bit of an improvement, but chinas economy is always in a downfall so it is impossible to get the rewards given in the wedding update again. But ever since the home update, they clearly shifted to that than the combat which is sas

[u/Resident_Sun_1886 → u/Minazura]

I’ve quit gachas for bad tutorials. These people have the option to walk away

[u/Violet_Ignition → u/Minazura]

What do people even dislike so much about Valko?

[u/Warm_Earth_985 → u/Violet_Ignition]

Most of CN dgaf about him as a character, a loud minority dislike him because he looks ugly and “gay”, but most don’t want him because he is going to fuck the gacha rates up even more and take away resources from other characters

[u/Square-Special1520 → u/Minazura]

How many pulls you need for a limited character (or card is it?) in LADS?

10 limited pulls + less than 20 pulls per patch, seems too little compared to other chinese gacha games i think?

[u/MODERNHoolaHoop → u/Square-Special1520]

Pity is 70, hard pity is 140. Event income averages to ~15 p/month (in reality the distribution heavily fluctuates month-to-month) and daily activity F2P income averages to 28 p/month. Side game modes (finite source that dries up in ~6 months) only give you like additional 3 p/month if that.

So 10 pulls are a drop in the bucket and won't even guarantee you a pity if you're F2P. It's a bit different if you're a spender, though.

But gacha economy is brutal whether you're F2P or a spender. There's indeed a lack of meaningful stable pull income when you're barraged by limited banners with no known schedule to prepare in advance. And company banks on exactly that.

[u/Square-Special1520 → u/MODERNHoolaHoop]

I see.. thank you for your explanation. 

[u/eliseofnohr → u/Minazura]

Yeah I've heard a lot about the hot mess that is LADS monetization. Being the only game in town got them a lot of the way, but...

[u/pandoricaelysion → u/Minazura]

yeah this is the issue here. i have to wonder why paper/infold is like this with LADs specifically? ive played some of their other games and theyre not nearly as stingy as they are in LADs. for a game with active battle you think theyd have more things to do in the game. infinity nikki is a dress up game for fucks sake and theres always something to do, and im saying that as someone whos played since day 1, i STILL have things to do every day. LADs could not keep me entertained enough to keep playing it. very different teams working on these games for sure.

[u/sassyydollyy → u/Minazura]

Most sane comment in this thread

[u/EricLFC → u/Minazura]

At the end of the day, it's just the nature of a gacha. Every single one is like this, with varying degrees. It's why we call them gachas and not rpgs or deckbuilders, or whichever genre they would otherwise fall into

[u/Square-Special1520 → u/EricLFC]

Yeah i feel like regular games where we buy normally (only pay once) are usually more worth it. 

Gacha feeds on addiction and the price is very skewed that it skews the financial perspectives of the players including me, kinda dangerous.